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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 07 2008,23:06   

Religulous...seems like I've heard of that...isn't that the anti-religion documentary that grossed twice as much per screen as Expelled in it's first weekend?

:D

   
Spottedwind



Posts: 83
Joined: Aug. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,09:36   

Quote (deejay @ Oct. 07 2008,22:07)
 
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Oct. 07 2008,19:01)
I've definitely missed you.

Why?  Do you prefer your past humiliation to your current irrelevance?

You sir/ma'am give me the happy.

  
slpage



Posts: 349
Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,10:19   

Does anyone know if Caroline Crocker's book about integrity in science has come out yet?


Also, it will be great fun to watch as Religulous surpasses 'Expelled' in earnings...

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,10:48   

Quote (deejay @ Oct. 07 2008,19:07)
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Oct. 07 2008,19:01)
I've definitely missed you.

Why?  Do you prefer your past humiliation to your current irrelevance?

"There's only one thing worse than being talked about..."

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
deejay



Posts: 113
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,11:55   

Quote (JohnW @ Oct. 08 2008,11:48)
Quote (deejay @ Oct. 07 2008,19:07)
 
Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Oct. 07 2008,19:01)
I've definitely missed you.

Why?  Do you prefer your past humiliation to your current irrelevance?

"There's only one thing worse than being talked about..."

Indeed.  Kevin has much to learn from jam doughnuts.

  
American Saddlebred



Posts: 111
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,12:50   

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 07 2008,23:06)
Religulous...seems like I've heard of that...isn't that the anti-religion documentary that grossed twice as much per screen as Expelled in it's first weekend?

:D

Expelled was a HUUUGE success remember?  It was one of the top ten grossing documentaries of all time!!!11!!!

   
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,12:54   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Oct. 07 2008,16:01)
Hey folks, I'm sure you've missed me these past few months. I've definitely missed you. Just wanted to remind you to mark Oct. 21 on your calendar, because that's the day you'll be able to pick up your very own copy of "Expelled" on DVD.

So Kevin, has the DVD version been updated to correct the more blatant errors ?

Like the obviously false claim that Sternberg was "fired" ?

Or the fact that Crocker was actively teaching creationist nonsense in a science class, rather than just mentioning id ?

Lemme guess...
1) We should all buy the DVD to find out.
2) If we do, we will find the answer is a big fat NO.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,15:02   

Religulous earned about a hundred thousand more in its first weekend than did Expelled, though it opened in less than half the number of theaters. It has a "Rotten Tomatoes" rank of 65%, compared to Expelled's 8%. It appears to have made back the production cost of $2.5 million in its first weekend. We have no idea whether Expelled even earned back its production and distribution costs yet, since no one seems willing to say just how much those cost, definitively.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,23:16   

Craig Hazen of Biola University has a review panning "Religulous", saying that it showed in a small theater and didn't attract a crowd...

I did a brief search to see if Hazen had boasted about numbers for "Expelled", but didn't see a smoking gun. Hazen should be made aware that "Religulous" will be making the numbers for "Expelled" look weak by comparison.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 08 2008,23:26   

What is interesting about "Religulous" is how the producers had private screenings where they bussed in atheists and freethinkers and kicked out Christians and creationists.

Also, the producers had a contest to see who could buy the most tickets and they'd award that institution with a Prize of Great Value.

And, Bill Maher has been pandering to the atheist left like nobody's business on Fox TV interviews.

Oh, wait a second, that was "Expelled" and Kev-0's people who did all that.

Sorry, my bad.

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2008,14:03   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 08 2008,21:16)
Craig Hazen of Biola University has a review panning "Religulous", saying that it showed in a small theater and didn't attract a crowd...

I did a brief search to see if Hazen had boasted about numbers for "Expelled", but didn't see a smoking gun. Hazen should be made aware that "Religulous" will be making the numbers for "Expelled" look weak by comparison.


In case anyone was, like me, wondering who Craig Hazen is and how he's connected to "Expelled":

"Expelled" Event Recap
   
Quote

Actor, economist, and social commenter Ben Stein visited Biola on March 27 to promote his new film, “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed” and to receive the Phillip E. Johnson Award for Liberty and Truth.

The gym was packed with 1,500 people, scientists, and journalists. Clips from the film were shown with commentary from the film producers. Stein encouraged the audience that truth will overcome, and that the battle for Intelligent Design “begins tonight.”

Caroline Crocker, former Professor of Biology at George Mason University spoke on her “expulsion” from teaching simply because she asked her students to consider all the options. Guillermo Gonzalez spoke on being denied tenure at Iowa State University because of his work in the field of intelligent design and his book, The Privileged Planet.

President Corey presented the award to Stein. The award has previously been given to Phillip E. Johnson in 2004 and Antony Flew in 2006 and is presented through the university’s Masters of Arts in Science and Religion (MASR) program.

For more information on the MASR program, please visit [ http://www.biola.edu/scienceandreligion ]www.biola.edu/scienceandreligion. The event was co-sponsored by the Christian Apologetics Program.

For more information on events like these, please visit www.biola.edu/apologetics.

Ben Stein is a lawyer, economist, former presidential speechwriter, author and social commentator. He has acted and made guest appearances in numerous movies, TV series, and TV commercials. His part as the boring teacher in Ferris Bueller's Day Off was recently ranked as one of the five most famous scenes in American film.


So, who's the director of Biola's M.A. Program in Christian Apologetics?

Craig Hazen:


Not only the director, but also the founder.

Here's the description of the MA Christian Apologetics program:
 
Quote

In addition to biblical and theological studies, you are able to draw from disciplines as diverse as history, philosophy, science, the humanities, social science, and law, all with an eye toward demonstrating the truth of the Gospel and the Christian world view beyond a reasonable doubt.


He's also considered part of the faculty of the very pro-ID MA Science and Religion program, the other department that sponsored the Expelled event, and the stated goal of which is:

 
Quote
The new Master of Arts degree in Science and Religion is designed to provide scientifically literate individuals with the essential background in theology, history, and philosophy that is necessary to integrate evangelical Christianity with modern science.


He was a speaker at their "Intelligent Design and the Future of Science" conference.

He's also the editor of the journal Philosophia Christi, and if you check the back issue contents, almost every issue includes articles about or directly related to ID, often by guys like Dembski, Johnson, and Behe.  Oh, and it's also where the Anthony Flew "conversion" interview got published.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
zodiaclove



Posts: 1
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,08:14   

Quote (theloneliestmonk @ April 04 2008,16:12)
yo
I can not agree with what you wrote really....
please explain further a bit more for me ;D


thank you

yo
I can not agree with what you wrote really....
please explain further a bit more for me ;D


thank you

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,08:39   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 08 2008,15:02)
Religulous earned about a hundred thousand more in its first weekend than did Expelled, though it opened in less than half the number of theaters. It has a "Rotten Tomatoes" rank of 65%, compared to Expelled's 8%. It appears to have made back the production cost of $2.5 million in its first weekend. We have no idea whether Expelled even earned back its production and distribution costs yet, since no one seems willing to say just how much those cost, definitively.

Dont forget-- Religulous is also rated R, not 'bring the whole family' PG like EXPELLED.

That being said, the theater last night was full.  Not Harry-Potter-packed, but full.  The audience ranged from teenagers to elderly couples (there were quite a few elderly couples-- it was so goddamned cute).

Religulous was nice.  I give it a solid B.

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,10:17   

Quote
Religulous was nice.  I give it a solid B.


AiG Doesn't like it:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/10/02/a-religulous-movie

  
Leftfield



Posts: 107
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,11:20   

From the Expelled Event Recap, interesting how they seem to consider scientists and journalists to be a separate category from "people".


 
Quote (didymos @ Oct. 09 2008,14:03)
In case anyone was, like me, wondering who Craig Hazen is and how he's connected to "Expelled":

"Expelled" Event Recap
       
Quote

. . .

The gym was packed with 1,500 people, scientists, and journalists.


--------------
Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,11:49   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Oct. 11 2008,10:17)
Quote
Religulous was nice.  I give it a solid B.


AiG Doesn't like it:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/10/02/a-religulous-movie

Ken Ham must have given a really tardiliciously stinky performance if AiG's blog highlights this as wit and wisdom of Ham:
Quote

As Maher interviews Ken in his office later, Ken is able to answer Maher’s questions well and rationally—even on the nature of God. Ken turns the tables on Maher by asking him a question he can’t answer: “Bill, are you God?” Maher is left with no answer other than “no” and then silence.


Maher sure got served.

--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,12:40   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Oct. 11 2008,11:49)
Quote (Peter Henderson @ Oct. 11 2008,10:17)
 
Quote
Religulous was nice.  I give it a solid B.


AiG Doesn't like it:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/10/02/a-religulous-movie

Ken Ham must have given a really tardiliciously stinky performance if AiG's blog highlights this as wit and wisdom of Ham:
 
Quote

As Maher interviews Ken in his office later, Ken is able to answer Maher’s questions well and rationally—even on the nature of God. Ken turns the tables on Maher by asking him a question he can’t answer: “Bill, are you God?” Maher is left with no answer other than “no” and then silence.


Maher sure got served.

Sure did!  He should have saidyes, Ken I am.  Now Bow Down And Worship me you sinner!

Ah well.  Easy to say what he should have said after the fact

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,12:49   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Oct. 11 2008,11:49)
 
Quote (Peter Henderson @ Oct. 11 2008,10:17)
   
Quote
Religulous was nice.  I give it a solid B.


AiG Doesn't like it:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2008/10/02/a-religulous-movie

Ken Ham must have given a really tardiliciously stinky performance if AiG's blog highlights this as wit and wisdom of Ham:
   
Quote

As Maher interviews Ken in his office later, Ken is able to answer Maher’s questions well and rationally—even on the nature of God. Ken turns the tables on Maher by asking him a question he can’t answer: “Bill, are you God?” Maher is left with no answer other than “no” and then silence.


Maher sure got served.

What did we learn from Ghostbusters?  When someone asks you if you're a god, you say "Yes!".

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 11 2008,17:22   

This just in, web advertising for the DVD release of Expelled has been sighted.  Where, you ask?  On onenewsnow.com.  To those pharynguloids out there, yes, I did find this site from when PZ linked to a poll they were running.

To those unfamiliar with the site, which appears to be run by the AFA (a group I was not too familiar with, I'm just not up on my evangelical propaganda groups), here's a sampling of their headlines on the main page:

Billy Graham celebrates his 90th birthday
Atheists fight historical right of prayer (note: this article is actually about the fight against establishing a national day of prayer, nothing to do with the right to pray)
Fighting planned parenthood's intimidation tactics
Court imposes same sex 'marriage' on state (yes, they use scare quotes around the word marriage, and at least once again in another story)
Darwinists in denial? (the blurb reads: "The Discovery Institute says a group of Darwinists who are opposing efforts by the Texas State Board of Education to allow evolution to be debated in the classroom are clinging to 19th century science in the 21st century.")
Learning to share you faith without fear
Chinese government sours on Christian music


Okay I admit, I edited out some of the blander topics like whether Elizabeth dole was in danger of losing her senate seat.


The ad describes the movie as  "the movie the liberals don't want you to see", and mentions "dvd available".  Seems kind of stilted to me.  And a little awkward since it isn't actually available yet anyway, if you click on the link it goes through to the AFA's commerce site where they're taking pre orders.  Curiously enough they call the price a "suggested donation" but you're not given a choice to alter the amount of your donation so far as I can see.

I was kind of disappointed, I was hoping it was a pay per click ad system and that my clicking would add to the promotional tab for the movie.  It looks like the AFA is probably getting at least a portion of the profits from the sales instead.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 13 2008,08:15   

Quote (Nomad @ Oct. 11 2008,17:22)
This just in, web advertising for the DVD release of Expelled has been sighted.  Where, you ask?  On onenewsnow.com.  To those pharynguloids out there, yes, I did find this site from when PZ linked to a poll they were running.

To those unfamiliar with the site, which appears to be run by the AFA (a group I was not too familiar with, I'm just not up on my evangelical propaganda groups), here's a sampling of their headlines on the main page:

Billy Graham celebrates his 90th birthday
Atheists fight historical right of prayer (note: this article is actually about the fight against establishing a national day of prayer, nothing to do with the right to pray)
Fighting planned parenthood's intimidation tactics
Court imposes same sex 'marriage' on state (yes, they use scare quotes around the word marriage, and at least once again in another story)
Darwinists in denial? (the blurb reads: "The Discovery Institute says a group of Darwinists who are opposing efforts by the Texas State Board of Education to allow evolution to be debated in the classroom are clinging to 19th century science in the 21st century.")
Learning to share you faith without fear
Chinese government sours on Christian music


Okay I admit, I edited out some of the blander topics like whether Elizabeth dole was in danger of losing her senate seat.


The ad describes the movie as  "the movie the liberals don't want you to see", and mentions "dvd available".  Seems kind of stilted to me.  And a little awkward since it isn't actually available yet anyway, if you click on the link it goes through to the AFA's commerce site where they're taking pre orders.  Curiously enough they call the price a "suggested donation" but you're not given a choice to alter the amount of your donation so far as I can see.

I was kind of disappointed, I was hoping it was a pay per click ad system and that my clicking would add to the promotional tab for the movie.  It looks like the AFA is probably getting at least a portion of the profits from the sales instead.

It would be a lot of fun if you could order 1,000 dvd's COD and send them to a certain houseboat in TX!

Hilarity By Design -

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2008,20:26   

At 16 days post-release, Religulous is pretty much comparable in performance to Expelled to date. The $70K difference in totals should be matched and exceeded by Religulous in tomorrow's box office. Various rankings show Religulous to be close to or slightly ahead of Expelled.

Yeah, I have no attachment to Religulous, but it does make a nice counter-case to the hype about Expelled. For every over-blown exaggeration made about Expelled, bringing up Religulous's better performance will puncture that nicely. The exaggerators likely will not want to extol Religulous, so they are faced with taking back the exaggeration or demonstrating themselves as hypocrites.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,15:00   

By entering the drawing for 10 free DVDs of "Expelled," you might receive biology's equivalent of "Reefer Madness," and deprive some gullible people of deceptive propaganda.  Anyway, here's the address:

http://discovery.org/csc/expelled_giveaway.php

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,15:07   

Anybody fill that out successfully? I got an error message about not having permission, and hitting back cleared the form.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,15:14   

Hm, it worked fine for me yesterday.  

I wonder if they ran into problems with the "wrong people" entering the drawing.

Anyhow, while no firm figures are in for Friday, Box Office Mojo estimates that Religulous is nearly $400,000 past the "top documentary of 2008" now:

Domestic Total as of Oct. 17, 2008: $8,072,000 (Estimate)

I don't like Religulous's tactics any better than I liked Expelled's.  And I wonder about the point of laughing at religion.  But I love it surpassing "Expelled," and they can thank Stein and company for pre-empting any complaints fundies' would have over the tactics.

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,15:50   

Cross-posted from Pharyngula:

Quote
By the way, here is a poll to crash:

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

It's "Expelled," asking "Do you think Darwin's theories are outdated?"  Now forget the pedant's response, where you'd say "Of course they're outdated, that's why we don't call it 'Darwinism' like the lying propagandists do."  Partly they're counting on that, I suspect (that is, they know they're lying).

Right now it's 57% "yes," 14% "no," and 29% "maybe".  "No" should be at the top, in my estimation, since their point has always been to conflate "Darwin's theories" with modern evolutionary theory.

Glen D


--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,17:21   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 19 2008,03:50)
Cross-posted from Pharyngula:

 
Quote
By the way, here is a poll to crash:

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

It's "Expelled," asking "Do you think Darwin's theories are outdated?"  Now forget the pedant's response, where you'd say "Of course they're outdated, that's why we don't call it 'Darwinism' like the lying propagandists do."  Partly they're counting on that, I suspect (that is, they know they're lying).

Right now it's 57% "yes," 14% "no," and 29% "maybe".  "No" should be at the top, in my estimation, since their point has always been to conflate "Darwin's theories" with modern evolutionary theory.

Glen D

I just voted and it is suspiciously 50%/25%/25%. I wonder if it has been reset.

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,17:27   

I just hit refresh and I got the 57/14/29

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,17:43   

Quote (bystander @ Oct. 18 2008,23:21)
I just voted and it is suspiciously 50%/25%/25%. I wonder if it has been reset.

How sad isn't rigging your own poll, if that's what they've done? Sadder than this.

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
EyeNoU



Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,17:53   

Quote (bystander @ Oct. 18 2008,17:21)
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Oct. 19 2008,03:50)
Cross-posted from Pharyngula:

 
Quote
By the way, here is a poll to crash:

http://www.expelledthemovie.com/

It's "Expelled," asking "Do you think Darwin's theories are outdated?"  Now forget the pedant's response, where you'd say "Of course they're outdated, that's why we don't call it 'Darwinism' like the lying propagandists do."  Partly they're counting on that, I suspect (that is, they know they're lying).

Right now it's 57% "yes," 14% "no," and 29% "maybe".  "No" should be at the top, in my estimation, since their point has always been to conflate "Darwin's theories" with modern evolutionary theory.

Glen D

I just voted and it is suspiciously 50%/25%/25%. I wonder if it has been reset.

I just voted and had the same result.

  
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2008,20:28   

Quote (bystander @ Oct. 18 2008,17:27)
I just hit refresh and I got the 57/14/29

Woah, I got the same thing.  First I got 50/25/25, then hit refresh and got 57/14/29.

How odd.

  
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