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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 5, Return To Teh Dingbat Buffet< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,12:19   

Quote
214
Allan KeithMay 28, 2018 at 9:55 am
Kairosfocus,
Quote

AK, RW calls so just a prelim. Mob rule is patently different from properly stabilised democracy:

Let’s use a hypothetical:
1) US calls a vote to make abortion illegal.
2) The vote is announced and adequate time is given for public debates.
3) The result of the vote is 67% in favour of making it illegal.
4) The US passes legislation making abortion illegal.

Is this the result of proper democracy or mob rule?


I bet the paranoid Kairosdoofus struggles to give a simple answer to that.


Quote

215
tribune7May 28, 2018 at 10:55 am
Allan, proper democracy and mob rule are not exclusive (and is the big reason the U.S. is not a democracy).

A democratic society can certainly exist where the majority doesn’t believe the minority deserve civil liberty.


Oh god, that dumb America isn't a democracy, it's a republic nonsense. We are in fact both.

Quote
I often hear people argue that the United States is a republic, not a democracy. But that’s a false dichotomy. A common definition of “republic” is, to quote the American Heritage Dictionary, “A political order in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who are entitled to vote for officers and representatives responsible to them” — we are that. A common definition of “democracy” is, “Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives” — we are that, too.

The United States is not a direct democracy, in the sense of a country in which laws (and other government decisions) are made predominantly by majority vote. Some lawmaking is done this way, on the state and local levels, but it’s only a tiny fraction of all lawmaking. But we are a representative democracy, which is a form of democracy.
Eugene Volokh at WaPo

Edited by stevestory on May 28 2018,13:20

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,13:08   

Quote (stevestory @ May 28 2018,12:19)
Quote
214
Allan KeithMay 28, 2018 at 9:55 am
Kairosfocus,
 
Quote

AK, RW calls so just a prelim. Mob rule is patently different from properly stabilised democracy:

Let’s use a hypothetical:
1) US calls a vote to make abortion illegal.
2) The vote is announced and adequate time is given for public debates.
3) The result of the vote is 67% in favour of making it illegal.
4) The US passes legislation making abortion illegal.

Is this the result of proper democracy or mob rule?


I bet the paranoid Kairosdoofus struggles to give a simple answer to that. [/quote]

Isn't it quite obvious? If the vote goes in KF's favour, it was the result of a good democratic process. If it doesn't, it is obviously mob rule.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,16:55   

Quote
223
Allan KeithMay 28, 2018 at 3:08 pm
StephenB,
Quote

It was you who appealed to the law as the means of justifying the killing of a young fetus.

Nice turnabout. You, KF and others want to introduce a law to ban abortions and I am the one appealing to the law. The only appeals I have made to the law is to impose legal restrictions on when abortion on demand shouldn’t be allowed.
Quote

I have already invited you to make your case.

I have already made my case. You may disagree with it but to say that it hasn’t been made is just a lie.

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,18:18   

Allan Keith
Quote
The most ironic thing from this entire thread is the fact that it is only the atheist who has expressed a concern for the number of abortions and proposed an action that has been shown to significantly reduce them. From the theists all we have seen is righteous indignation, chest thumping and bemoaning the imminent downfall of civilization.

Zip, zip, zip.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,19:32   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 28 2018,18:18)
Allan Keith
Quote
The most ironic thing from this entire thread is the fact that it is only the atheist who has expressed a concern for the number of abortions and proposed an action that has been shown to significantly reduce them. From the theists all we have seen is righteous indignation, chest thumping and bemoaning the imminent downfall of civilization.

Zip, zip, zip.

I think those dingbats actually believe that “righteous indignation, chest thumping and bemoaning the imminent downfall of civilization“ are actions to reduce abortions.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,19:35   

Quote (Texas Teach @ May 28 2018,17:32)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 28 2018,18:18)
Allan Keith
 
Quote
The most ironic thing from this entire thread is the fact that it is only the atheist who has expressed a concern for the number of abortions and proposed an action that has been shown to significantly reduce them. From the theists all we have seen is righteous indignation, chest thumping and bemoaning the imminent downfall of civilization.

Zip, zip, zip.

I think those dingbats actually believe that “righteous indignation, chest thumping and bemoaning the imminent downfall of civilization“ are actions to reduce abortions.

It's all they have.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 28 2018,23:47   

Speaks for itself.

Quote
Allan Keith May 28, 2018 at 10:21 pm
StephenB@239. Here is a summary of the highly scientific papers you didn’t provide links to.

1) “Habit Persistence.,,” A paywalled article from the Journal of Business & Economic Statistics. Do I really have to say more?

2) “Adolescent sexual health in Sweden” This article points out that the increased abortion rate corresponded to decrease in funding for comprehensive sex education. You must have missed the part where I said that access to contraceptives combined with comprehensive sex education has been shown to reduce abortion rates.

3) “The false promise…” non link is to the same business and economic journal paper you provided in number 1.

4) “Greater access to contraceptives…” this is from another completely scientific, non biased and impartial source, the United States Congress of Catholic Bishops.

You stated that my claims were obviously from outdated and methodologically flawed studies, and you provide this list to counter it? I’m surprised that you didn’t include articles from LifeSite News and Campaign Life Coalition.

Let me state the facts again. Comprehensive and early sex education, combined with unrestricted access to contraceptives, is proven to significantly reduce both the teen pregnant rate and the abortion rate. If you have any reputable studies that contradict this, please provide links. I would love to read them.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,01:43   

Quote (stevestory @ May 28 2018,18:05)
Quote
Startling Result–90% of Animals Less than 200 kya
May 28, 2018 Posted by PaV under Intelligent Design
No Comments

From PhysOrg this morning, in a study using “DNA bar-codes” (mitochondrial DNA, using a specific gene COI) and conducted around the world, here’s the verdict:
 
Quote

The study’s most startling result, perhaps, is that nine out of 10 species on Earth today, including humans, came into being 100,000 to 200,000 years ago.

“This conclusion is very surprising, and I fought against it as hard as I could,” Thaler told AFP.


The scientists can’t figure out what might have caused this. Maybe a “flood”?

Here's the actual article. I haven’t had time to read it.

Enjoy!


linky

PaV is like a kid running in yelling he heard from some guy an ice cream truck just crashed around the corner.

Oh yeah a flood...before modern humans migrated out of Africa. That would make Noah a proto-Ethiopian stone age hunter gatherer turned raft builder long before mono-theistic religions, the god of the old testament and agriculture were invented.

Never mind that the conclusion states:

Quote
"Contemporary sequence data cannot
tell whether mitochondrial and Y chromosomes clonality occurred at the same time, i.e.,
consistent with the extreme bottleneck of a founding pair, or via sorting within a founding
population of thousands that was stable for tens of thousands of years [116]. As Kuhn
points out unresolvable arguments tend toward rhetoric.
"


Perhaps PaV meant a rhetorical flood.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,04:50   

To be fair, a flood might have had a traumatic effect on the authors, causing them to lose their critical faculties. That really isn't a very good paper. I've pointed out some of the problems over at UD, so let's see if they'll accept them, or if they'll give substantive explanations of why my criticisms are incorrect.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,09:16   

There are two paths you can take w/r/t abortion.

1) you hate abortion and want as few as possible, so you support contraception and comprehensive sex education.

2) You want to look all self-righteous, so you support abstinence-only sex ed and no abortion.

Of course Kairosdoofus is in the second category.

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,10:11   

LacofFocus,
Quote
AK,

I have limited time, so let me clip the following from 229 and respond, as it seems to go to the heart of the matter.


Followed by over 3,000 words.
word salad

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,10:12   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 29 2018,10:11)
LacofFocus,
Quote
AK,

I have limited time, so let me clip the following from 229 and respond, as it seems to go to the heart of the matter.


Followed by over 3,000 words.
[URL=https://uncommondescent.com/selective-hyperskepticism/correcting-trollish-errors-2-aks-a-mats-are-skeptical-of-extraordinary-claims-selective-hy

perskepticism-rises-yet-again/#comment-659245]word salad[/URL]

OK, it is comment 244 of Mulling's "Correcting Trollish errors, 2" thread.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,10:18   

Quote (stevestory @ May 29 2018,07:16)
There are two paths you can take w/r/t abortion.

1) you hate abortion and want as few as possible, so you support contraception and comprehensive sex education.

2) You want to look all self-righteous, so you support abstinence-only sex ed and no abortion.

Of course Kairosdoofus is in the second category.

As has been pointed out many times, it all makes much more sense once you realize it's not about the sanctity of life, it's about the punishment of women.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,11:38   

Quote (JohnW @ May 29 2018,18:18)
Quote (stevestory @ May 29 2018,07:16)
There are two paths you can take w/r/t abortion.

1) you hate abortion and want as few as possible, so you support contraception and comprehensive sex education.

2) You want to look all self-righteous, so you support abstinence-only sex ed and no abortion.

Of course Kairosdoofus is in the second category.

As has been pointed out many times, it all makes much more sense once you realize it's not about the sanctity of life, it's about the punishment of women.

All in the name of their own personal version of their preferred deity.
Which they think will disappear if their literal objective version of a bronze age myth is shown to be poetry not fact.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,16:14   

Quote (k.e.. @ May 29 2018,11:38)
Quote (JohnW @ May 29 2018,18:18)
Quote (stevestory @ May 29 2018,07:16)
There are two paths you can take w/r/t abortion.

1) you hate abortion and want as few as possible, so you support contraception and comprehensive sex education.

2) You want to look all self-righteous, so you support abstinence-only sex ed and no abortion.

Of course Kairosdoofus is in the second category.

As has been pointed out many times, it all makes much more sense once you realize it's not about the sanctity of life, it's about the punishment of women.

All in the name of their own personal version of their preferred deity.
Which they think will disappear if their literal objective version of a bronze age myth is shown to be poetry not fact.

But it’s much more difficult to get people to give you 10% of their income for poetry.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,16:55   

Quote (Texas Teach @ May 29 2018,16:14)
Quote (k.e.. @ May 29 2018,11:38)
Quote (JohnW @ May 29 2018,18:18)
 
Quote (stevestory @ May 29 2018,07:16)
There are two paths you can take w/r/t abortion.

1) you hate abortion and want as few as possible, so you support contraception and comprehensive sex education.

2) You want to look all self-righteous, so you support abstinence-only sex ed and no abortion.

Of course Kairosdoofus is in the second category.

As has been pointed out many times, it all makes much more sense once you realize it's not about the sanctity of life, it's about the punishment of women.

All in the name of their own personal version of their preferred deity.
Which they think will disappear if their literal objective version of a bronze age myth is shown to be poetry not fact.

But it’s much more difficult to get people to give you 10% of their income for poetry.

There once was a man from Nantucket...


I will settle for 5%

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,18:21   

I will take 2% for not reading you my poetry.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,18:30   

Quote (fnxtr @ May 29 2018,18:21)
I will take 2% for not reading you my poetry.

Are you a Vogon?

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 29 2018,20:46   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 29 2018,16:30)
Quote (fnxtr @ May 29 2018,18:21)
I will take 2% for not reading you my poetry.

Are you a Vogon?

Scottish hijacker.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,00:17   

Quote (fnxtr @ May 29 2018,20:46)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 29 2018,16:30)
Quote (fnxtr @ May 29 2018,18:21)
I will take 2% for not reading you my poetry.

Are you a Vogon?

Scottish hijacker.

The one who burned his lips on the exhaust pipe while trying to blow up the bus?

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,06:03   

I assume this is one of you
Quote

50
AmblyrhynchusMay 30, 2018 at 3:44 am

No argument has been presented to me.

PaV took a press release on face value, boranagin pasted a lot of quotes, Rob Sheldon pontificated on… something, jorronet lost the plot, Kaiser strung together a lot of words but produced no meaning and you have linked to giant posts that combine wikipedia-style summaries of particular proteins with some reification of BLAST bit scores to prove… well I’m stilll not sure what they are meant to prove.

As I say, it’s an amazing place.


--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,08:50   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 29 2018,22:17)
 
Quote (fnxtr @ May 29 2018,20:46)
 
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 29 2018,16:30)
   
Quote (fnxtr @ May 29 2018,18:21)
I will take 2% for not reading you my poetry.

Are you a Vogon?

Scottish hijacker.

The one who burned his lips on the exhaust pipe while trying to blow up the bus?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....5oIuP9c

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,19:14   

Heh - amusing snippets from a conversation on the Species are “compact clusters in the vastness of empty sequence space.” thread:
PaV (responding to newcomer Amblyrhynchus):  
Quote
Show me the intermediates, and I will change my mind about Darwinistic evolution.

Amblyrhynchus:  
Quote
There are loads of transitionals. Archeopteryx, Tiktaalik, all those whales…

PaV:  
Quote
I’m afraid if you believe this, you’ll believe anything.
Darwin, of course, because of his gradualism, thought that the fossil record, in length and complexity, ‘before’ the Cambrian would be much like what we see ‘since’ the Cambrian.
Darwin was wrong about that, too.
If Darwin had been right about that, I would also have changed my perspective.

Amblyrhynchus’ reply:  
Quote
Quote
If Darwin had been right about that, I would also have changed my perspective.

I mean… I’ve only been here a little while and I can say with some confidence that you wouldn’t have.

UD link

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,19:57   

OK, to keep the comment above short(ish) I didn't mention that BS77 had been jumping into that thread at various points maintaining that transitional fossils don't exist quoting luminaries such as C Luskin, C Hunter and Y Tube. Here's a nice follow-up to them:
 
Quote

14
Allan Keith
  May 30, 2018 at 6:00 pm

Why is it that atheists and evolutionists don’t link to YouTube videos, fringe conspiracy web sites, popular press books and Christian web sites to highlight our points? Are we missing a large source of science discourse?


--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,20:24   

Quote (Ptaylor @ May 30 2018,17:57)
OK, to keep the comment above short(ish) I didn't mention that BS77 had been jumping into that thread at various points maintaining that transitional fossils don't exist quoting luminaries such as C Luskin, C Hunter and Y Tube. Here's a nice follow-up to them:
   
Quote

14
Allan Keith
  May 30, 2018 at 6:00 pm

Why is it that atheists and evolutionists don’t link to YouTube videos, fringe conspiracy web sites, popular press books and Christian web sites to highlight our points? Are we missing a large source of science discourse?



--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2018,21:59   

Allan Keith to Mullings about teens having sex.
Quote
Human “proclivities”, as you call them, are things that society has tried to control for centuries. Unsuccessfully, I might add. It is time to acknowledge that these “proclivities” can’t be controlled, and that there is nothing morally wrong with them. But it is incumbent on us to make sure that our kids are equipped to deal with these “proclivities”. That includes comprehensive sex education at an early age and access to the most effective birth control available. You may be uncomfortable with the fact that teens have sex, but they do. My parents did, my wife and I did, and my kids did. And I fully expect my grand kids to. And, I might add, that none of us had unwanted pregnancies. Largely because we were provided the knowledge and tools to prevent them.

Pull out the anti-stroke meds.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2018,08:30   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ May 31 2018,05:59)
Allan Keith to Mullings about teens having sex.
Quote
Human “proclivities”, as you call them, are things that society has tried to control for centuries. Unsuccessfully, I might add. It is time to acknowledge that these “proclivities” can’t be controlled, and that there is nothing morally wrong with them. But it is incumbent on us to make sure that our kids are equipped to deal with these “proclivities”. That includes comprehensive sex education at an early age and access to the most effective birth control available. You may be uncomfortable with the fact that teens have sex, but they do. My parents did, my wife and I did, and my kids did. And I fully expect my grand kids to. And, I might add, that none of us had unwanted pregnancies. Largely because we were provided the knowledge and tools to prevent them.

Pull out the anti-stroke meds.

Perhaps kf is thinking about teenage electric eels having sex.....shocking.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
fnxtr



Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2018,08:44   

He just can't stand the idea that his god's incubators might have some kind of sexual independence.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2018,14:40   

Quote
James Tour
May 31, 2018 Posted by Barry Arrington under Off Topic
2 Comments
As I write this post, UD’s all-time most accessed post (here) just passed 368,000 views.  Get to know the man who is the subject of that post in this seven-minute video:


linky

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2018,12:17   

This comment on KF’s latest OP. Especially since it comes from an ID proponent (I think)
Quote
OldAndrew June 3, 2018 at 10:50 am
Forgive me, but this is utterly and entirely incomprehensible. Bolds, italics, varying font colors, diagrams, cartoons, numbered lists, and indentations do not help. It is all but impossible to read this and understand what the point is.

No one is “studiously ignoring” it. I don’t think that’s even a thing. It’s an impenetrable wall of words written without any apparent awareness of how it sounds to others. One would have to spend hours analyzing it one sentence at a time in order to understand it well enough to agree with it or not. No one is going to do that.

I know I’m being a bit blunt, and I apologize. But I’m trying to be constructive, not mean, and perhaps save you some time. To put it plainly, almost no one has any idea what you are attempting to communicate. This might as well be written in Klingon.

Changing peoples’ minds is difficult. In some cases it’s impossible. There is 0.00% chance that you will have any desirable influence on anything or anyone by writing what no one understands.


https://uncommondescent.com/philoso....-659690

  
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