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Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:08   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:58)
“They [Jenkins et al.] discovered that a spike in X-ray flux associated with the flare roughly coincided with a dip in the manganese’s decay rate. Two days later, an X-ray spike from a second solar flare coincided with another, though very faint, dip. Then, on 17 December, a third X-ray spike accompanied yet another dip, which was more prominent (see above figure).”
http://physicsworld.com/cws........s....08

Thus all these many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time as even indicated by the study’s detractors at Berkeley

Berkeley scientists say: “If the Jenkins et al. [4] proposal were correct, it would have profound consequences for many areas of science and engineering.”
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers.....Sun.pdf

Then on top of this, you have all the contamination and calibration problems of radiometric dating

A dip in the decay rate would result in radiometric dates that underestimate the actual age of the dated object.

But yours is unresponsive. The questions were:

1) Let us grant the 0.5% number, arguendo (although your own reference also states that a number of experiments indicate that decay rates are, to a high degree of precision, unaffected by external conditions).

That moves the onset of the Triassic from 2.5 million centuries in the past to ~2.48 million centuries in the past. It moves the onset of the Jurassic from ~1.996 million centuries in the past to ~1.98 million centuries. And it moves the end of the Cretaceous from 655,000 centuries in the past to 651,725 centuries in the past.

So, does the Wikipedia article you cite support your belief in a mythical flood with its attendant antediluvian and post-flood eco-zones, or does it not support the rejection of your imaginary chronology and, in large measure, support the standard chronology, even granting a contraction of the timeline by 0.5 percent?

2) When was the flood?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:09   

Page bug bump.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:11   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Nov. 08 2011,09:21)
[quote=forastero,Nov. 08 2011,00:29]
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Nov. 07 2011,23:35)
 
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Nov. 07 2011,23:16)
 


Oops, another negative result, for a beta decaying nucleus!  Bayesian prior for "artifact" just got a lot bigger...

   
Quote
DO RADIOACTIVE HALF-LIVES VARY WITH THE EARTH-TO-SUN
DISTANCE?
J.C. Hardy*, J.R. Goodwin and V.E. Iacob#
Cyclotron Institute, Texas A&M University, College Station, TX 77845-3366, USA
Abstract
Recently, Jenkins, Fischbach and collaborators have claimed evidence that radioactive half-lives vary systematically over a ?0.1% range as a function of the oscillating distance between the Earth and the Sun, based on multi-year activity measurements. We have avoided the time-dependent instabilities to which such measurements are susceptible by directly measuring the half-life of 198Au (t1/2 = 2.695 d) on seven occasions spread out in time to cover the complete range of Earth-Sun distances. We observe no systematic  oscillations in half-life and can set an upper limit on their amplitude of ?0.02%.

Interesting but this gold isotope doesnt seem to have much  decay experimentation to go on? Maybe that's why they skipped the multi-year activity measure?

Like I said the council of elders wont give up their radiomagic wands with out a bitter fight

Multi-year means continuous observations over multiple years, not observations spread over multi-years.  The gold isotope data is more than enough, and was using data already collected many years ago, same as the other paper which detected no variation.

You hanging on to this shows no ability to judge good from bad, you just think like a child: no contstant radiodecay rates -> no reliable dating.

Ah so you conclude that all isotopes are equally stable when it comes to fluctuations? Lets see if Ogre disagrees.

Oh and your first sentence seems contradictory.

  
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:15   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Nov. 08 2011,11:08)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:58)
“They [Jenkins et al.] discovered that a spike in X-ray flux associated with the flare roughly coincided with a dip in the manganese’s decay rate. Two days later, an X-ray spike from a second solar flare coincided with another, though very faint, dip. Then, on 17 December, a third X-ray spike accompanied yet another dip, which was more prominent (see above figure).”
http://physicsworld.com/cws........s....08

Thus all these many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time as even indicated by the study’s detractors at Berkeley

Berkeley scientists say: “If the Jenkins et al. [4] proposal were correct, it would have profound consequences for many areas of science and engineering.”
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers.....Sun.pdf

Then on top of this, you have all the contamination and calibration problems of radiometric dating

A dip in the decay rate would result in radiometric dates that underestimate the actual age of the dated object.

But yours is unresponsive. The questions were:

1) Let us grant the 0.5% number, arguendo (although your own reference also states that a number of experiments indicate that decay rates are, to a high degree of precision, unaffected by external conditions).

That moves the onset of the Triassic from 2.5 million centuries in the past to ~2.48 million centuries in the past. It moves the onset of the Jurassic from ~1.996 million centuries in the past to ~1.98 million centuries. And it moves the end of the Cretaceous from 655,000 centuries in the past to 651,725 centuries in the past.

So, does the Wikipedia article you cite support your belief in a mythical flood with its attendant antediluvian and post-flood eco-zones, or does it not support the rejection of your imaginary chronology and, in large measure, support the standard chronology, even granting a contraction of the timeline by 0.5 percent?

2) When was the flood?

Again, all the scientist disagree with your dismissing of the possible consequences if the fluctuations are found to be true.

Again, many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:17   

Quote
Like I said the council of elders wont give up their radiomagic wands with out a bitter fight

Isn't it just too bad, it happens all the time. I still remember the heroic struggle of Sir Fred Hoyle against the council of elders.
I remember how long it took before the elders got their ranks in proper order too.

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:21   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:15)
Again, all the scientist disagree with your dismissing of the possible consequences if the fluctuations are found to be true.

Again, many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time

So, when was the flood then?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
tsig



Posts: 339
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:23   

Quote (Cubist @ Oct. 21 2011,21:03)
I second Ogre's remarks above: If you're not claiming that everything is Designed, you must be claiming that some things are Designed and other things are not Designed... so how do you tell the difference? Given some arbitrarily-chosen whatzit, how can you tell whether said whatzit is, or is not, Designed?

Why you apply the Explanatory Filter ... calculate the CSI...drat it, it just looks designed.

misquote many dead scientists

so there. Case proofed. :)

  
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:25   

Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 08 2011,09:59)
Quote
So how did this new mutated apegirl have a enough genetic diversity to be considered the mitochondrial eve?

Somebody who understood what "mitochondrial eve" means wouldn't ask that. She was part of a population, not necessarily even at a time of a bottleneck. Her mitochondria is what got inherited by everybody later; for all other piece of DNA the source might be anybody in the population in which she lived.

So are you saying some radiation spiked punctuated equilibrium came down from the heavens and turned a hole bunch of bonobos into homos all at once?

Or as I asked before. Did this apegirl breed with with alpha ape to make hybrid apeboys more vigorous than mutated gorillas on PCP and thus able to dominate their ancestral troop?

  
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:27   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 08 2011,11:21)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:15)
Again, all the scientist disagree with your dismissing of the possible consequences if the fluctuations are found to be true.

Again, many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time

So, when was the flood then?

We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:27   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:25)
So are you saying some radiation spiked punctuated equilibrium came down from the heavens and turned a hole bunch of bonobos into homos all at once?

Or as I asked before. Did this apegirl breed with with alpha ape to make hybrid apeboys more vigorous than mutated gorillas on PCP and thus able to dominate their ancestral troop?

When was the flood?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:28   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:27)
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 08 2011,11:21)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:15)
Again, all the scientist disagree with your dismissing of the possible consequences if the fluctuations are found to be true.

Again, many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time

So, when was the flood then?

We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

What's your best guess?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:28   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,08:58)
Thus all these many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time as even indicated by the study’s detractors at Berkeley

Berkeley scientists say: “If the Jenkins et al. [4] proposal were correct, it would have profound consequences for many areas of science and engineering.”
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers.....Sun.pdf

Where in the paper is it indicated that the variations add up exponentially over time, muppet?  

I read it.  Did you?

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:31   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:27)
We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

If every ancient culture recorded the event:

A) You'd simply be able to tell me when those cultures dated it to.

B) Illogical. If the global flood killed all but a handful of people on the Ark then what "ancient cultures" were around to record the event at all? They were all dead!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:31   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,12:25)
Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 08 2011,09:59)
Quote
So how did this new mutated apegirl have a enough genetic diversity to be considered the mitochondrial eve?

Somebody who understood what "mitochondrial eve" means wouldn't ask that. She was part of a population, not necessarily even at a time of a bottleneck. Her mitochondria is what got inherited by everybody later; for all other piece of DNA the source might be anybody in the population in which she lived.

So are you saying some radiation spiked punctuated equilibrium came down from the heavens and turned a hole bunch of bonobos into homos all at once?

Or as I asked before. Did this apegirl breed with with alpha ape to make hybrid apeboys more vigorous than mutated gorillas on PCP and thus able to dominate their ancestral troop?

Yes, you fool, that's exactly what we are saying.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:32   

Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 08 2011,11:28)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,08:58)
Thus all these many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time as even indicated by the study’s detractors at Berkeley

Berkeley scientists say: “If the Jenkins et al. [4] proposal were correct, it would have profound consequences for many areas of science and engineering.”
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers.....Sun.pdf

Where in the paper is it indicated that the variations add up exponentially over time, muppet?  

I read it.  Did you?

Its common sense. Muppets dont have common sense so they just conform

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:33   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 08 2011,12:31)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:27)
We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

If every ancient culture recorded the event:

A) You'd simply be able to tell me when those cultures dated it to.

B) Illogical. If the global flood killed all but a handful of people on the Ark then what "ancient cultures" were around to record the event at all? They were all dead!

knuckles!  transposons!  hitler!  the lord works in mysterious ways

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:33   

You really aren't listening forastero (huge surprise, I know).

None of any of these points you keep bringing up does anything that you MUST have it do, which is reduce the possible age of the Earth from 4.5 billion years to less than 1 million years (and that's giving you an extra 3 orders of magnitude that you really shouldn't get).

You see, you can SAY things all you want.  You still have no evidence to support 'exponential changes'.  You still have no way of dealing with the fact, that the isotopes you are discussing are not used for radiometric dating.  You still have no way of dealing with the fact, that ALL methods of radioactive dating converge on a specific date and if you alter the rate of decay (for example, by changing the weak nuclear force), they will not converge on a date.

And all this was brought up because you still think that this is an argument that the weak nuclear force can change.  It can't.  There are external mechanisms that SEEM to increase AND decrease the rate of radioactive decay by a miniscule amount (not exponential and it's cyclical anyway).

What's really fucking funny is you are quoting a paper that specifically denies all of this is occurring anyway.  Let's read the conclusion shall we?



Quote
In conclusion, we find no evidence for correlations between the rates for the decays of 22Na, 44Ti, 108Agm, 121Snm, 133Ba, and 241Am and the Earth–Sun distance. We set limits on the possible amplitudes of such correlations (2.5–37) times smaller than those observed in previous experiments [1–3]. Our results strongly disfavor the suggestions by Jenkins et al. [4] of an annual  variation based on a previously unobserved field produced by the Sun or the annual variation in the flux of solar neutrinos reaching the Earth. Recently, Cooper [8] performed a very clever analysis of decay power data obtained from the 238Pu thermoelectric generator aboard the Cassini spacecraft. The results of this analysis also strongly disagree with the hypothesis of a correlation  between nuclear decay rates and the distance of the source to the Sun.
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers/EarthSun.pdf

Wow... but thanks for providing the paper.

We can say, without further SIGNIFICANT evidence, that this entire line of discussion is moot (note correct spelling).

So, you have again, wasted some 5-6 pages on something that was totally useless.

Are there any other of your claims you'd like to disprove for us?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:37   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:32)
Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 08 2011,11:28)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,08:58)
Thus all these many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time as even indicated by the study’s detractors at Berkeley

Berkeley scientists say: “If the Jenkins et al. [4] proposal were correct, it would have profound consequences for many areas of science and engineering.”
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers.....Sun.pdf

Where in the paper is it indicated that the variations add up exponentially over time, muppet?  

I read it.  Did you?

Its common sense. Muppets dont have common sense so they just conform

When do you think the global flood was?

How is it possible that all ancient cultures recorded it if by definition they were wiped out by such a flood?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:38   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 08 2011,11:31)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:27)
We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

If every ancient culture recorded the event:

A) You'd simply be able to tell me when those cultures dated it to.

B) Illogical. If the global flood killed all but a handful of people on the Ark then what "ancient cultures" were around to record the event at all? They were all dead!

LOL

You, sir, are a gem.

Further: If everyone was dead and their culture still recorded a flood story... what is the evidence that the floods actually happened?  In other words, physical evidence?

Tell us, if you can't determine a date, then were, in/on the Earth is all the sediment from the flood deposited?  If the Flood was global, then there should be one layer, with lots of dead things in it, that is effectively contiguous throughout the planet.  Yes, even allowing for uplift, we can still correlate the rock layers.  You might not be able to, but any junior level Geology student can.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:39   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 08 2011,11:31)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:27)
We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

If every ancient culture recorded the event:

A) You'd simply be able to tell me when those cultures dated it to.

B) Illogical. If the global flood killed all but a handful of people on the Ark then what "ancient cultures" were around to record the event at all? They were all dead!

The Semetic, Hamitic,  and Japhetic groups of course whom agree on the existence many things without specific dates of origin.

  
forastero



Posts: 458
Joined: Oct. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:45   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 08 2011,11:33)
Quote
In conclusion, we find no evidence for correlations between the rates for the decays of 22Na, 44Ti, 108Agm, 121Snm, 133Ba, and 241Am and the Earth–Sun distance. We set limits on the possible amplitudes of such correlations (2.5–37) times smaller than those observed in previous experiments [1–3]. Our results strongly disfavor the suggestions by Jenkins et al. [4] of an annual  variation based on a previously unobserved field produced by the Sun or the annual variation in the flux of solar neutrinos reaching the Earth. Recently, Cooper [8] performed a very clever analysis of decay power data obtained from the 238Pu thermoelectric generator aboard the Cassini spacecraft. The results of this analysis also strongly disagree with the hypothesis of a correlation  between nuclear decay rates and the distance of the source to the Sun.
http://donuts.berkeley.edu/papers/EarthSun.pdf

Wow... but thanks for providing the paper.

We can say, without further SIGNIFICANT evidence, that this entire line of discussion is moot (note correct spelling).

So, you have again, wasted some 5-6 pages on something that was totally useless.

Are there any other of your claims you'd like to disprove for us?

Again, I have included this article from the very beginning and mentioned several times  that paper disagreed with the fluctuations.

What they do agree with though is that y'all are wrong in dismissing the gravity of the possible fluctuations

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:49   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:39)
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 08 2011,11:31)
Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:27)
We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

If every ancient culture recorded the event:

A) You'd simply be able to tell me when those cultures dated it to.

B) Illogical. If the global flood killed all but a handful of people on the Ark then what "ancient cultures" were around to record the event at all? They were all dead!

The Semetic, Hamitic,  and Japhetic groups of course whom agree on the existence many things without specific dates of origin.

So the descendants of Noah wrote down that there was a global flood? And that's how you know there was a global flood?

Where did they write it down?

So you *know* there was a global flood but can't bring yourself to put even an approximate date on the event?

Tell me then, were the Egyptians around during the flood?

Before the flood?

After the flood?

What's your best guess at a date for this "global flood" you just know happened?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:50   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:45)
What they do agree with though is that y'all are wrong in dismissing the gravity of the possible fluctuations

All people are dismissing is your interpretations of the possible fluctuations. As you've been unable to support your interpretation in any way at all that's a reasonable thing to happen.

Get used to it.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:51   

Quote
We dont rightly know exactly yet but every ancient culture recorded the event

Very interesting. We don't need the exact figure, just your best guess - which is the best you can do anyway.

AFAIK, the age of aboriginal culture in Australia is something like 40.000 years. Shouldn't they have a memory both of the flood and Noah's zoo caravan?

Some people are beyond reason.

ETA: I've mentioned it before but the geology of the famous fjords of Norway shows that they were created by twenty successive glaciation events. There also is evidence for human activity in the highlands at last 9.000 years back in time before the ice was gone from the lowlands. (The only possible access route at that time would have been over the ice.)

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:52   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,11:39)
The Semetic, Hamitic,  and Japhetic groups of course whom agree on the existence many things without specific dates of origin.

So if three groups of people agree on something that automatically makes it true?

OK......

What's *your* best guess at a date for the global flood you *know* happened?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:57   

Quote
every ancient culture recorded the event

You heard it here folks, the bibblicul grait flud is confirmed--by the eyewitness testimony of the people who were killed by it!

After a global flood that left 8 survivors, there would be no cultures to record anything, idiot.

You don't really bother to think these things through, do you?

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:57   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,12:15)
Again, all the scientist disagree with your dismissing of the possible consequences if the fluctuations are found to be true.

Again, many little variations here and there start to add up exponentially over time

I did not dismiss the consequences of the findings reported in your cited Wiki article. I GRANTED the consequences, namely a 0.5% contraction of the timeline (although, as above, the results you cite suggest that radiometric dating actually underestimates ages in some instances.)

The questions are:

1) Let us grant the 0.5% number, arguendo (although your own reference also states that a number of experiments indicate that decay rates are, to a high degree of precision, unaffected by external conditions).

That moves the onset of the Triassic from 2.5 million centuries in the past to ~2.48 million centuries in the past. It moves the onset of the Jurassic from ~1.996 million centuries in the past to ~1.98 million centuries. And it moves the end of the Cretaceous from 655,000 centuries in the past to 651,725 centuries in the past.

Given that, does the Wikipedia article you cite support your belief in a mythical flood with its attendant antediluvian and post-flood eco-zones, or does it not support the rejection of your imaginary chronology and, in large measure, support the standard chronology, even granting a contraction of the timeline by 0.5 percent?

2) When was the flood?

ETA: An order of magnitude will do. Hundreds of years in the past? Thousands? Tens of Thousands? etc.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:57   

So according to this guy on the internets, every culture we have knowledge of in the entire history of the earth was in fact descended from Noah, as logically all records of prior cultures were wiped out during the fuludde.

So you get off the boat. Find a dry place.

You start a new "culture".

Let's say "Egyptian". We know they did not exist prior to the flood because we have evidence for them - evidence that was washed away for all other cultures (how could it not be?). So they must have come into existence after the flood.  

So, knowing that just *yesterday* god killed everybody on the planet for not following his rules to the letter you go and found a religion that worships many gods. Not the "God". Many. Different. Ones. I believe there's even a specific rule against that.

Yes, that makes sense. That they would forget yesterday and do the exact thing that pissed it off in the first place again.

Duh!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
tsig



Posts: 339
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,11:58   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 23 2011,17:43)
do we really have a live one? after all this time? really? Can I pet it? If I pet it, it won't die will it? That always happens. That always happens and you always say it's not my fault, but it is. it is.

Can i pet it? cAn i?

Yes, you can even call it George.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 08 2011,12:05   

Quote (forastero @ Nov. 08 2011,10:25)
Quote (Henry J @ Nov. 08 2011,09:59)
Quote
So how did this new mutated apegirl have a enough genetic diversity to be considered the mitochondrial eve?

Somebody who understood what "mitochondrial eve" means wouldn't ask that. She was part of a population, not necessarily even at a time of a bottleneck. Her mitochondria is what got inherited by everybody later; for all other piece of DNA the source might be anybody in the population in which she lived.

So are you saying some radiation spiked punctuated equilibrium came down from the heavens and turned a hole bunch of bonobos into homos all at once?

Or as I asked before. Did this apegirl breed with with alpha ape to make hybrid apeboys more vigorous than mutated gorillas on PCP and thus able to dominate their ancestral troop?

That reply had nothing to do with what I said.

  
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