RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (622) < ... 551 552 553 554 555 [556] 557 558 559 560 561 ... >   
  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,19:19   

N.Wells, other than grammar you have not provided any evidence at all of a single problem with the theory. Throwing insults at the whole thing only indicates that you have nothing at all that I must take seriously.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,19:26   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,20:19)
N.Wells, other than grammar you have not provided any evidence at all of a single problem with the theory. Throwing insults at the whole thing only indicates that you have nothing at all that I must take seriously.

Liar.
Each of us who still bother trying to interact with you have pointed out large numbers of flaws.
If I'm not mistaken, N.Wells was one of the first if not the first to call out the contradiction of your pet phrase 'emergent self-similarity'.  He's schooled you on a number of other incoherencies and contradictions in your nonsense.
And you know it.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,19:46   

The phrase "emergent self-similarity" appears nowhere in the theory.

They fabricate a lie, to call me a liar with. These people are scam artists.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,19:57   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,20:46)
The phrase "emergent self-similarity" appears nowhere in the theory.

They fabricate a lie, to call me a liar with. These people are scam artists.

Literally as such, perhaps not.  But you routinely conflate the two notions.  Youve been challenged repeatedly on the fact that this is nonsense.
See, for example, bolded for the congenitally dishonest and hard-of-thinking:
 
Quote

 
Quote (N.Wells @ Dec. 31 2014,09:31)
You've got a whole lot of transparent and ineffective distraction going on, Gary.
As NoName said earlier,
       
Quote
Stop deflecting, distracting, and denying.  Man up and deal with the facts on the ground:

A phenomenon is not properly called 'emergent' when it arises from a set of phenomena to which it is properly called 'self-similar'.  And vice versa.

Not all acts of 'intelligence' are motor acts, yet your "theory" insists otherwise.  This flies in the face of your assertion that your, or any competing, "theory" must "explain how ANY intelligence system works."
Deal with the fact that you smuggle 'intelligence' into your module with the undefined and uncharacterized 'guess' function.
Deal with the fact that 'guess' does not equal 'plan'.  Your "theory" is useless as a 'theory of intelligence' if it cannot deal with plans and planning.
Deal with the fact that many acts of intelligence involve imagination, and your "theory" does not deal with imagination at all.
Deal with the fact that some of the most crucial constraints on life are thermodynamic and that your "theory" simply ignores any and all thermodynamic issues.
Etc.

       
Quote
What is the ‘something’ that must be controlled when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that none of these require muscle activity of any sort.

What are the senses that address what memory/memories when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Note that each of these has been performed by individuals who lack the 'obvious' sensory modalities one would expect for the product.
Sub-question — what does it mean for memory to be sensory-addressed?  The naive view that has the senses directly writing to memory or directly “indicating” what memory to use and what to store there has been debunked many many years ago.  So what are you talking about here?

What is the measure of confidence to gauge failure and success when an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?
Sub-question — what senses address what memory/memories in the creation, storage, and retrieval of the ‘confidence’ factor?  Is it analog or digital?  What process(es) modify it, at what points, and what difference does it make?

What is the ‘ABILITY TO TAKE A GUESS’?  How is it manifested and how is it utilized when  an intelligence creates a theory?  a musical composition?  a plan?  a story plot line?

What is a guess?  How does ‘guess’ relate to ‘plan’ and to ‘imagination?  Are there factors that feed into/influence the guess?  Is a guess random?  If not, what regularity does it exhibit?  Is it algorithmic?  What algorithm?  Or how is the specific algorithm used chosen?
What justifies embedding ‘guess’ into the “flow” that defines “intelligence” when the ability to guess is generally taken to be an act of intelligence?  How is it we only find guessing happening when we find ‘molecular intelligence’ in your sense, i.e., biology?
(You do realize that a random number generator in a computer program does not ‘guess’?)


And questions from me:
       
Quote
Why is your rubbish not made obsolete by Edgar Postrado's rubbish?

       
Quote

It is also unreasonable to expect out of place detail that would limit the theory to only one level of intelligence (brains) of a model that has to work for any behavior, intelligent or not.


Since you see intelligence darn near everywhere at all levels, in your opinion what behavior would qualify as not intelligent, and why?

...


Here's another set of good questions.  You've been running from these for no little while -- this aggregation was posted at the end of 2014.  It's been posted a few times since then, and ignored each time.

There's really nothing new in the above, there's nothing new in your ongoing refusal to address the issues.

What's new is your pretense that you have answered the valid and proper questions raised against your notions, the pretense that your interlocutors are being insincere and dishonest in their claims that you have resolutely refused to address these issues.

Worse than pathetic, not least because it is so transparent.  So easily countered.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,20:03   

There is no need to lie about you or put words in your mouth -- although it's hard to imagine how we could make the result worse than you do on your own.
Your work is occasionally banal, trite, and trivial.  The rest of it is barking mad -- delusional, dishonest, incoherent, contradictory both internally and with respect to the real world, totally lacking in insight, rigor, intellectual fecundity or even suggestivity.  A festival of fractured English uttered by the mad and ignored by intelligent beings everywhere.
An appalling waste of an insignificant, nay, meaningless little life.

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,20:47   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,17:39)
The publishing deadline for the paper/theory that needs to include new information on the cognitive origin of the scientific method is the 16'th and it's already the 10'th. On top of that I am very busy at my day job, need to make a video showing how the new ID Lab works for someone in another forum who needs it badly, and possibly respond to new people who have been viewing my work. I seriously have much bigger and better things to do with my time than waste my time running in circles while dimwits throw insults at me.

I must now get back to work.

Whines about not having time to post here (instead of just working) then posts twice more.  Incompetent time management?  Stupidity?  Lies?  Some combination of the above?  You make the call.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Cubist



Posts: 558
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,20:59   

Step one: Post lotsa posts about how you don't have time to post.
Step two: ???
Step three: PROFIT!

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,21:13   

Quote (Texas Teach @ May 10 2016,20:47)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,17:39)
The publishing deadline for the paper/theory that needs to include new information on the cognitive origin of the scientific method is the 16'th and it's already the 10'th. On top of that I am very busy at my day job, need to make a video showing how the new ID Lab works for someone in another forum who needs it badly, and possibly respond to new people who have been viewing my work. I seriously have much bigger and better things to do with my time than waste my time running in circles while dimwits throw insults at me.

I must now get back to work.

Whines about not having time to post here (instead of just working) then posts twice more.  Incompetent time management?  Stupidity?  Lies?  Some combination of the above?  You make the call.

Self-defense.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,21:40   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,21:13)
Quote (Texas Teach @ May 10 2016,20:47)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,17:39)
The publishing deadline for the paper/theory that needs to include new information on the cognitive origin of the scientific method is the 16'th and it's already the 10'th. On top of that I am very busy at my day job, need to make a video showing how the new ID Lab works for someone in another forum who needs it badly, and possibly respond to new people who have been viewing my work. I seriously have much bigger and better things to do with my time than waste my time running in circles while dimwits throw insults at me.

I must now get back to work.

Whines about not having time to post here (instead of just working) then posts twice more.  Incompetent time management?  Stupidity?  Lies?  Some combination of the above?  You make the call.

Self-defense.

You could just quit posting things on boards where people think you're a fool.  Or you could shut us all up with some evidence from the real world (not random articles that have nothing to do with your magical guessing RNA).  Or you could get your work done and quit whining about how hard you have it to people who think you're a fool.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,21:40   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,21:13)
Quote (Texas Teach @ May 10 2016,20:47)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 10 2016,17:39)
The publishing deadline for the paper/theory that needs to include new information on the cognitive origin of the scientific method is the 16'th and it's already the 10'th. On top of that I am very busy at my day job, need to make a video showing how the new ID Lab works for someone in another forum who needs it badly, and possibly respond to new people who have been viewing my work. I seriously have much bigger and better things to do with my time than waste my time running in circles while dimwits throw insults at me.

I must now get back to work.

Whines about not having time to post here (instead of just working) then posts twice more.  Incompetent time management?  Stupidity?  Lies?  Some combination of the above?  You make the call.

Self-defense.

Gary, clearly you haven't convinced anyone of your not-a-theory, so what you are doing self-evidently isn't working.

We keep saying that we want supporting evidence: why not provide some and show everyone that you are right and we are wrong?

If the problem is that we are simply refusing to believe you, why are you bothering with us?

What do you suppose would definitively show your critics to be wrong?

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,21:48   

I just found out that I am an approved submitter on a private subreddit forum that I did not even ask to be an approved submitter for. Due to the circumstances it's quite an honor for me to be invited, this way. Since there is a chance that it would help get something put together in record time (in comparison to running around ducking insults) it's hard for me to justify hiding in a cave until the 17'th so I'm thinking about saying hi. But WWTTD? Or for that matter WWNWD?

Back to work! Or sort of.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 10 2016,21:49   

Related info:
Radiohead - Daydreaming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....7lLDZYU

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2016,04:12   

Aaaand back to the music videos, the last refuge of Gaulin's incompetence.

No answers given yet again. No defence of your not-a-theory.

Let's try again;

How would an 'intelligent' RNA polymer differ from one reacting to the existing laws of physics and chemistry?

And the follow-up;

How would we detect this difference?

Again, I won't hold my breath for answers.

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2016,18:28   

Cue up the Rolling Stones, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking".  Not that it'll work, but it's worth a try . . . .

Whatta hoot!

:)  :)  :)

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2016,18:39   

Quote (jeffox @ May 11 2016,19:28)
Cue up the Rolling Stones, "Can't You Hear Me Knocking".  Not that it'll work, but it's worth a try . . . .

Whatta hoot!

:)  :)  :)

I think Gaulin's lost in a much older Stone's tune -- 2000 Light Years From Home.
Maybe that's why his transmissions are so garbled?

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2016,20:28   

Or maybe 20,000 leagues under the C++? :p

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,00:41   

Working on it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....iz8MU8o

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,01:20   

Camp thought I would enjoy this one! And yes, I do!



--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,02:02   

Quote (ChemiCat @ May 11 2016,04:12)
Let's try again;

How would an 'intelligent' RNA polymer differ from one reacting to the existing laws of physics and chemistry?

It sounds to me like you are saying: How would an 'intelligent' robot differ from one reacting to the existing laws of electronics?

In that case: As far as I know Ohm's Law works the same for either a Beta Rodney robot or a dumb bread toaster that automatically pops-up on its own.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
ChemiCat



Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,02:49   

Quote
It sounds to me like you are saying: How would an 'intelligent' robot differ from one reacting to the existing laws of electronics?


So that would be no need for 'intelligence' then. So stop trying to force your definition of intelligence onto unthinking molecules.

No 'best guesses', no 'motor control', just the laws of physics and chemistry. No Intelligence required.

Also, robots are man-made objects that only perform as they are humanly programmed to do, who or what 'programmes' RNA polymers to 'learn'?

Ah hell, why do I have to use up a year's supply of quote marks when talking to Gaulin?

Don't answer, I've just realised. It's because he has no operational definitions and can use words to mean what he wants them to mean when he wants to obfuscate.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,06:17   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 12 2016,02:02)
Quote (ChemiCat @ May 11 2016,04:12)
Let's try again;

How would an 'intelligent' RNA polymer differ from one reacting to the existing laws of physics and chemistry?

It sounds to me like you are saying: How would an 'intelligent' robot differ from one reacting to the existing laws of electronics?

In that case: As far as I know Ohm's Law works the same for either a Beta Rodney robot or a dumb bread toaster that automatically pops-up on its own.

Yes, the two indeed sound alike TO YOU !!!  Not to anyone else though.

First, intelligence in robots is not equivalent to intelligence in molecules: any attempt to conflate learning in robots with "learning" in molecules relies on stretching metaphors far beyond their utility.  Second, you have no way of distinguishing a robot that has achieved intelligence from one that has not (your language wrongly includes Neato vacuum cleaners as being intelligent).

This is game over, from your own words.  As ChemiCat says (and as I've been saying in other contexts), this happens because you lack operational definitions, along with regular definitions and reasonable use of English in a way that supports valid conclusions and legitimate reasoning, all of which allows you to muddle your thinking and conflate all sorts of rubbish in pursuit of your delusions.

More specifically, your mangled terminology and abysmally bad statements regarding the "requirements of intelligence" fail to exclude things that clearly are not intelligent (such as Neato vacuum cleaners and autofocus cameras), AND they fail to include accomplishments and behaviors that clearly involve intelligence (e.g., mentally composing a symphony, planning your future, evaluating your life, and the like).  This disconnection from reality lets you float ungrounded through fantasies of intelligent molecules. "Intelligence" becomes a completely meaningless buzzword in your hands and removes all meaning from anything you say.

Until you fix these huge problems (and others), you stand no chance of having anything of any use to any one.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,06:58   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 12 2016,03:02)
Quote (ChemiCat @ May 11 2016,04:12)
Let's try again;

How would an 'intelligent' RNA polymer differ from one reacting to the existing laws of physics and chemistry?

It sounds to me like you are saying: How would an 'intelligent' robot differ from one reacting to the existing laws of electronics?

In that case: As far as I know Ohm's Law works the same for either a Beta Rodney robot or a dumb bread toaster that automatically pops-up on its own.

More proof, were any required, that you completely fail to comprehend the notion of 'emergence'.
NO ONE is arguing that robots do not operate according to the laws of chemistry and physics -- other than  you, by implication.
Likewise, NO ONE is arguing that humans do not operate according to the laws of chemistry and physics -- other than you, by implication.

What is being argued is the sufficiency of chemistry and physics alone to explain the entirety of the phenomenon (or phenomena) of intelligence.
No more so than the laws of chemistry and physics suffice to explain the phenomenon of the English country town, the growth pattern of plants, or coral reefs, and a host of other features of the universe.
The problem of emergence is not solved by pushing 'intelligence' down to the level of fundamental particles or molecules.  That is merely sweeping the problem under the rug and planting a sign directing "ignore the lumps".  Useless.  Just as you and your "theory" are useless.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,07:01   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 12 2016,06:17)
First, intelligence in robots is not equivalent to intelligence in molecules:

If that were true then Ohm's Law is not valid for calculating the voltage and electrical current produced by an electric eel.

Let me know when you have enough relevant experience to know what you're talking about.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,07:04   

Oh and electronic circuits are made of atoms and molecules too. Duh?

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,07:11   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 12 2016,08:01)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 12 2016,06:17)
First, intelligence in robots is not equivalent to intelligence in molecules:

If that were true then Ohm's Law is not valid for calculating the voltage and electrical current produced by an electric eel.

Let me know when you have enough relevant experience to know what you're talking about.

Absurd.
Worse than absurd, it is technically nonsense.

Once again, learn what 'emergence' means.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,07:13   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 12 2016,08:04)
Oh and electronic circuits are made of atoms and molecules too. Duh?

But this does not mean that atoms and molecules are properly considered 'circuits'.  Still less does it mean that atoms and molecules as such are 'intelligent' on any standard meaning of the term.

Learn about part-whole relationships, the difference between parts and systems, the aggregation of systems into greater systems thus causing them to be considered, and to function, as subsystems of a greater whole.

As it is, you are so distinctly and demonstrably unqualified to utter these ignorant and useless opinions as to boggle the mind.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,07:15   

Gary, food is made up of atoms and molecules.
The digestive tract is made up of atoms and molecules.
Food is digested.
None of this means or implies that atoms and molecules digest or are digested.

Granularity.  Learn what it means and why it matters.

You pathetic simpering idiot.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,07:32   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 12 2016,07:01)
   
Quote (N.Wells @ May 12 2016,06:17)
First, intelligence in robots is not equivalent to intelligence in molecules:

If that were true then Ohm's Law is not valid for calculating the voltage and electrical current produced by an electric eel.

Let me know when you have enough relevant experience to know what you're talking about.

BS.  Non sequitur.  

You are completely clueless.

This raises an interesting point, however.  We can calculate the voltage and electrical current produced by an electric eel precisely because Ohm's law serves as part of the operational definition for electricity.  You lack anything equivalent for intelligence, so you CANNOT measure the amount of intelligence in a molecule, or even show whether such a thing exists, so you are blathering, whereas an electric eel indisputably creates a charge.

And what NoName says about granularity.

ETA: Actually, for the heck of it, please explain your logic here.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,08:07   

Although it's just a semantics issue I do wonder whether RNA's fully qualify as being "unimolecular". A molecule made of molecules can also be said to be a multimolecular molecule, a polymer.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2016,08:30   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 12 2016,08:07)
Although it's just a semantics issue I do wonder whether RNA's fully qualify as being "unimolecular". A molecule made of molecules can also be said to be a multimolecular molecule, a polymer.

And it's a clueless lob to ChemiCat, who has been trying to get you to clean up your language in this area for eons.  

Unimolecular refers more to reactions or systems, not to the molecule itself, not to whether or not it's a polymer or a macromolecule, or whether it is single- or double-stranded.


 
Quote
But WWTTD? Or for that matter WWNWD?

As Texas Teach referenced, "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt."  This would be an excellent case in point.

  
  18634 replies since Oct. 31 2012,02:32 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (622) < ... 551 552 553 554 555 [556] 557 558 559 560 561 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]