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  Topic: GoP's LAMSM Theory, Liberal Agenda of the Mainstream Media?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
normdoering



Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 06 2006,12:10   

Quote (Faid @ May 04 2006,12:40)
As for Greg Bear.... Whaaaaaaa?

Greg Bear wrote "Darwin's Children" -- one has to wonder if Ghost read that book.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 06 2006,15:20   

Quote
....^&%# Marxists.
Huh? What does all this have to do with Marxism? Or is this a little Ghostly humor that I'm not getting?

Quote
And Russell will claim that the Black students must have been flown in by helicopter.
Hey, the student body is what it is. I don't argue with that. I'm just telling you, it's surprising given the makeup of Bensonhurst. Perhaps it reflects busing, or something.

But Ghost never saw fit to comment on the Yusuf Hawkins story. Or the Central Park Jogger story... Is his attention any less selective than the AP's?

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2006,07:59   

Excluding myself, we've got 18 separate individuals on the "Vote" thread, and it's obvious that they're all interested in a model.....but not all have voted. Now, I'm planning on presenting a hypothesis (Deep Mind and I have hashed out a few details), but without 18 votes, I'm not under any obligation to avoid political threads - so I get the best of both worlds. Silly evos, you can't help it, now can ya? But ya'll soon regret yer insults - that'll just make the beating that much worse.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 08 2006,08:46   

Quote
I get the best of both worlds.
Claiming to win while looking like an a55?

   
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2006,13:35   

As I've mentioned previously, I've been sitting on some powerful evidence indicting the media for its massive silence on minority-on-majority crime, and their concomitant amplification of the reverse. If I wanted to, of course, I could rest my case now on the evidence presented. The National Victimisation Survey, the Lexis-Nexis study, the Lafayette High bungle, and the multitude of dramatic cases hidden in the bowels of the media, taken collectively, paint a horrific portrait of a beast that feeds on the blood of its citizens. But I'd like to leave the liberals without a single weapon, regardless of how dusty or obsolete it may be. It's time to unveil the case that dares not speak its name. Ladies and gents, I give you:

The Wichita Massacre.

Let's set the scene:
Quote
The two black men are accused of a week-long crime spree that culminated in the quadruple homicide of four young whites in a snowy soccer field in Wichita, Kansas. In all, the Carr brothers robbed, raped or murdered seven people.
[.....]
The only survivor of the massacre is a woman whose identity has been protected, and who is known as H.G. In statements to police and in testimony at an April 2001 preliminary hearing, the 25-year-old school teacher offered horrible details of what happened on the night of Dec. 14, 2000. That evening, a Thursday, H.G. went to spend the night at the home of her boyfriend, Jason Befort. Mr. Befort, 26, a science teacher and coach at Augusta High School, lived in a triplex condo with two college friends: Bradley Heyka, 27, a financial analyst, and Aaron Sander, 29, who had recently decided to study for the priesthood.

When H.G. arrived with her pet schnauzer Nikki around 8:30 p.m., her boyfriend Mr. Befort was not there, but the two roommates were. A short time later, Mr. Sander's former girlfriend, Heather Muller, a 25-year-old graduate student at Wichita State University who worked as a church preschool teacher, joined them. At about 9 p.m., H.G. went to her boyfriend's ground-floor bedroom to grade papers and watch television. Mr. Befort came home from coaching a basketball practice around 9:15, and at 10:00, H.G. decided to go to bed. Before joining H.G in bed, Mr. Befort made sure all the lights in the house were turned off and all the doors were locked. Mr. Sander was sleeping on a couch in the living room while his former girlfriend slept in the second ground-floor bedroom. Mr. Heyka slept in a room in the basement.

Shortly after 11 p.m., the porch light came back on, to the surprise of Mr. Befort, who was still awake. H.G. says that seconds later she heard voices, then shouting. Her boyfriend cried out in surprise as someone forced open the door to the bedroom. H.G saw "a tall black male standing in the doorway." She didn't know how the man got into the house, and police investigators have not said how they think the Carrs got in. She says the man, whom she later identified as Jonathan Carr, ripped the covers off the bed. Soon, another black man brought Aaron Sander in from the living room at gunpoint and threw him onto the bed. H.G. saw that both men were armed. She said they wanted to know who else was in house, and the terrified whites told them about Mr. Heyka in the basement and Miss Muller in the other ground-floor bedroom. The intruders brought them into Mr. Befort's bedroom.

"We were told to take off all of our clothes," says H.G. in her testimony. "They asked if we had any money. We said: 'Take our money . . . Take whatever you want.' We didn't have any (money)."

The Carrs, however, were not at that point interested in money. They made the victims get into a bedroom closet, and for the next hour brought them out to a hall by a wet bar, singly or in pairs for sex. In the closet-perhaps 12 feet away from the wet-bar area-the victims were under orders not to talk. H.G. says that when the Carrs heard whispering they would wave their guns and shout "Shut the fuck up."

The Carrs first brought out the two women, H.G and Heather Muller, and made them have oral sex and penetrate each other digitally. They then forced Mr. Heyka to have intercourse with H.G. Then they made Mr. Befort have intercourse with H.G, but ordered him to stop when they realized he was her boyfriend. Next, they ordered Mr. Sander to have intercourse with H.G. When the divinity student refused, they hit him on the back of the head with a pistol butt. They sent H.G. back to the bedroom closet and brought out Miss Muller, Mr. Sander's old girlfriend. H.G. testified she could hear what was going on out by the wet bar, and when Mr. Sander was unable to get an erection one of the Carrs beat him with a golf club. Then, she says, the Carr brothers "told [Aaron] that he had until 11:54 to get hard and they counted down from 11:52 to 11:53 to 11:54." The deadline appears to have brought no further punishment, and Mr. Sanders was returned to the closet. The Carrs then forced Mr. Befort to have intercourse with Heather Muller, and then ordered Mr. Heyka to have sex with her. H.G. says she could hear Miss Muller moaning with pain.

The Carrs asked if the victims had ATM cards. Reginald Carr then took the victims one at a time to ATM machines in Mr. Befort's pickup truck, starting with Mr. Heyka. While Reginald Carr was away with Mr. Heyka, Jonathan Carr brought H.G. out of the closet to the wet bar, raped her, and sent her back to the closet. Reginald Carr returned with Mr. Heyka, and ordered Mr. Befort to go with him. Mr. Heyka was put back in the closet but said nothing about his trip to the ATM machine. Mr. Sander asked Mr. Heyka if they should try to resist, assuming they would be killed anyway, but Mr. Heyka did not reply. While Reginald Carr was away with Mr. Befort at the cash machine, Jonathan Carr ordered Heather Muller out of the closet and raped her.

When Reginald Carr returned with Mr. Befort, H.G. volunteered to go next. Mr. Carr let her put on a sweater, but nothing else, and said he liked seeing her with no underwear. He ordered her to drive the truck to a bank, and told her not to look at him as he crouched in the back seat. "I asked him if he was going to hurt us and he said, 'No,' " she says. "I said, 'Do you promise you're not going to kill us?' and he said, 'Yes.' "

H.G. got money from the cash machine and adds, "On the way back, he said he wished we could've met under different circumstances. He said I was cute, and we probably would've hit it off." When the two got back to the house, Reginald Carr raped H.G. and ejaculated in her mouth. Jonathan Carr raped Miss Muller again, and then he raped H.G. one more time. Afterwards, the intruders ransacked the house looking for money. They found a coffee can containing an engagement ring Jason Befort had bought for his girlfriend. "That's for you," he told H.G., "I was going to ask you to marry me." That is how H.G. learned her boyfriend planned to propose to her the following Friday, Dec. 22.

At one point, says H.G., Reginald Carr "said something that scared me. He said 'Relax. I'm not going to kill you yet.' "

The Final Ride

The Carrs led the victims outside into the freezing night. At midnight it had been 17.6 degrees, and there was snow on the ground. The Carrs let the women wear a sweater or sweatshirt, but they were barefoot, and naked from the waist down. The men were marched into the snow completely naked. The Carrs tried to force all the victims into the trunk of Aaron Sander's Honda Accord, but realized five people would not fit, and made only the men get into the trunk. Reginald Carr ordered H.G. to join him in Mr. Befort's truck, and Jonathan Carr drove the Accord with the three men in the trunk and Miss Muller inside. As Mr. Carr drove her off, H.G. noted the time: It was 2:07 a.m., three hours since the ordeal began.

After a short drive, both vehicles stopped in an empty field. Reginald Carr ordered H.G. to go sit with Miss Muller in Mr. Sander's car. A moment later, she saw the men line up in front of the Honda. In her testimony H.G. said, "I turned to Heather and said, 'They're going to shoot us.' "

The Carr brothers ordered H.G. and Miss Muller out of the car. Miss Muller stood next to Mr. Sander, her former boyfriend, while H.G. stood beside her boyfriend, Mr. Befort. The Carrs ordered them to turn away and kneel in the snow. "As I was kneeling, a gun shot went off," says H.G. "[Then] I heard Aaron [Sander]. . . . I could distinguish Aaron's voice. He said, 'Please, no sir, please.' The gun went off."

H.G. heard three shots before she was hit: "I felt the bullet hit the back of my head. It went kind of gray with white like stars. I wasn't knocked unconscious. I didn't fall forward. Then someone kicked me, and I had fallen forward. I was playing dead. I didn't move. I didn't want them to shoot me again."

As H.G. lay in the snow, the Carrs drove off in Jason Befort's pickup, running over the victims as they left. H.G. says she felt the truck hit her body, too.

"I waited until I couldn't hear any more," she says. "Then I turned my head and saw lights going. I looked at everyone. Everyone was face down. Jason [Befort] was next to me. I rolled him over. There was blood squirting everywhere, so I took my sweater off and tied it around his head to try and stop it. He had blood coming out of his eyes."

In the distance, H.G. saw Christmas lights. Barefoot and naked, with a bullet wound in the head, she managed to walk more than a mile in the freezing cold, through snow, across a field and construction site, around a pond, and through the brush, until she reached the house with the lights. She pounded frantically on the door and rang the doorbell until the young married couple who lived there woke up. "Help me, help me, help me," she pleaded. "We've all been shot. Three of my friends are dead." (At the time, H.G. thought her boyfriend was still alive.)

The couple wrapped H.G. in blankets, and reached for the phone to dial 911, but she would not let them call. She was afraid she would die, and wanted to tell what had happened. She described the attackers and what they did, as the couple listened in amazement at her courage and determination. Only when she was sure they knew her story did she let them call the police. Still thinking she would die, she asked them to call her mother-"Tell her I love her"-and her boyfriend's parents. She was worried about the children she teaches, and kept wondering "Who's going to take care of the kids in school?"

This summary is taken from American Renaissance. Skeptics may cross-check Jared's facts with a pre-trial transcript here. Here's another source.

           The media would usually trumpet a case this lurid and dramatic to the whole world. But it didn't happen here. Why? No commercial potential? Mr. Capote and  The New Yorker would be surprised to hear that:
Quote
In Cold Blood: A True Account of a Multiple Murder and Its Consequences, by Truman Capote (ISBN 0679745580), details the 1959 murders of Herbert Clutter, a wealthy farmer from Holcomb, Kansas; his wife, Bonnie; his 16-year-old daughter, Nancy; and his 15-year-old son, Kenyon, and the aftermath. Capote said that he had created a new type of book, the non-fiction novel, by applying traditional literary conventions to crime reporting. Critics debate whether Capote invented this type of writing. [1]

Capote learned of the quadruple slaying from a news article in The New York Times. He decided to go to Kansas and write about the murders, even before the killers, Richard "Dick" Hickock and Perry Smith, were captured. He brought his childhood friend and fellow author Harper Lee with him. Together they interviewed the local residents and the investigators assigned to the case. Capote and Lee took thousands of pages of notes, and Capote spent years working on the book, which was serialized during 1965 in The New Yorker. After the book was published in January 1966, it was adapted into both a theatrical film drama and a TV movie.

Of course, Caspote's case has one difference: the white complexion of the victims and murderers.

Oh, but surely there were even juicier cases occupying the media's time? Perhaps. But Michelle Malkin disagrees:
Quote
The first trial was held in Beverly Hills. The accused was Hollywood starlet Winona Ryder, charged with shoplifting at a Saks Fifth Avenue store. A Nexis search turned up more than 500 stories on the trial published over the past week alone. Television, news and radio reporters from around the world breathlessly described Ryder's daily court attire—her hairbands, her coatdresses, her shoes, her bra straps, her lipstick.

We learned the all-important details of how she appeared "pale" one day, "chipper" the next. Crack news reporters informed us that she is "doe-eyed" and "petite." Talking heads endlessly scrutinized the trial evidence, tapes and testimony. Psychologists explained the motivations of kleptomaniacs. Entertainment insiders parsed Ryder's film career for clues.

On Wednesday, the cable shows provided "breaking news" coverage of the guilty verdicts and wall-to-wall analysis of What This Means For Winona. The New York Times and Washington Post followed up with bylined news articles.

This, you see, was news that mattered. News fit to print.
[...]
When such senseless, evil savagery takes place against politically correct victims, the mainstream media is quick to make national news of such crimes. "If this had been two white males accused of killing four black individuals, the media would be on a feeding frenzy and every satellite news organization would be in Wichita doing live reports," wrote Trent Hungate of Wichita in a letter to the Wichita Eagle after the killings two years ago. Indeed. The horrific James Byrd dragging case in Texas and the Matthew Shepard murder in Wyoming, for example, garnered front-page headlines and continuous coverage.

But with the exception of local Kansas newspapers, the Associated Press, The Washington Times, Fox News, Court TV and conservative Internet sites, the Carr trial made almost no news.

And keep in mind that The Washington Times was founded by the Reverend Sun Myung Moon and is widely considered a "wingnut newsrag". Fox News? Conservative, baby. Now if the murderers had spoken Spanish, well......so that leaves the AP. You know, the wire service who learned a few tricks from the Dreyfus affair. But what about Court TV?
Quote
Court TV originally said they would broadcast the entire trial.  Then they "changed their mind" and said they would only broadcast the opening statements of the prosecuting and defense attorneys and the testimony of the survivor--but then they mysteriously "changed their mind" again and only provided a few brief news reports about the trial.

Oh.

In short, there's absolutely no reason, financial or otherwise, for this case to go unheard. Well, maybe one.....

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,05:23   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ May 09 2006,18:35)
In short, there's absolutely no reason, financial or otherwise, for this case to go unheard. Well, maybe one.....

…because the "liberal" press is hoping whites will remain unafraid of blacks, so blacks can kill all the white people?

Where are you going with this, Bill? You claim to have uncovered a crime. Could you favor us with your interpretation as to motive?

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 555
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,05:31   

It's amazing how easy it is to prove a broad, overarching thesis with a single piece of anecdotal evidence.  The mainstream media is clearly racist against white people, I'm convinced.  No doubt about it.  In fact, I think this story proves not only that, but just about anything else one might want it to prove.  Gravity a myth?  Yep, look at the Carr case.  Pigs fly?  Carr murders.  2+2 = 3.14159? Carr Carr Carr Carr Carr.  

GoP, you're a genius.

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"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
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"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,06:02   

Now, let's not jump to conclusions. Sure, it may seem like Ghosty's horror story has no point, but clearly he's just staging a cliff-hanger. Obviously in Part 2 he's going to tie it all together and show how it actually proves something. Probably that's when he'll explain how the Central Park Jogger case, which would seem to run counter to his thesis, is actually the exception that proves the rule.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,06:05   

Quote (Russell @ May 11 2006,11:02)
Now, let's not jump to conclusions. Sure, it may seem like Ghosty's horror story has no point, but clearly he's just staging a cliff-hanger. Obviously in Part 2 he's going to tie it all together and show how it actually proves something. Probably that's when he'll explain how the Central Park Jogger case, which would seem to run counter to his thesis, is actually the exception that proves the rule.

I'm sure this all connects to Ward Churchill somehow.

Gosh, if only GoP spent as much time on his science as he does on his politics, we'd all be convinced the sun revolves around the earth by now...

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,13:39   

O's T:
Quote
It's amazing how easy it is to prove a broad, overarching thesis with a single piece of anecdotal evidence.  The mainstream media is clearly racist against white people, I'm convinced.  No doubt about it.

Glad you saw the light. But I showed more than a "single piece of anecdotal evidence", or haven't you read the thread? Besides, if you reject anecdotal evidence, then you must despise the media's attempts to prove institutional discrimination against minorities through....anecdotes. After all, the liberal case is based on retelling (and retelling, and retelling) the James Byrd, Amadou Diallo, and Yusuf Hawkins tragedies. Speaking of Yusuf, there's an eerie parallel between his ordeal and two other ones:
Quote
In Paved with Good Intentions, Jared Taylor recounts a 1989 incident that occurred in The Bronx one month after the Yusuf Hawkins killing. A white man got out of his car on predominantly black East Tremont Avenue to use a telephone. A black man approached him, said, “What are you white guys doing on Tremont? You don’t belong here,” and gut-shot the white. The story was suppressed by the media, ignored by politicians, and discounted by black activists. (At the time, I had a foster-care client on East Tremont Avenue, which looked like a war had just ended, but I didn’t hear about the black-on-white shooting. The woman, a crackhead, lived atop a hilly street. When I went for a home visit and she wasn’t there, I literally ran downhill to a pay phone a block away, to call her neighbor. Meanwhile, the media had already started telling the fairy tale about the “renaissance” the South Bronx, which included East Tremont, was enjoying.)

Breaking Through the Media Wall of Silence

Note that when a mob of some thirty black junior high school students savagely beat six white girls while shouting racial epithets (“black power!” “honky b—–s!” “white crackers!” “Martin Luther King!” — go figure), in Marine Park, Brooklyn, on March 30 of this year, Mayor Bloomberg and Commissioner Kelly ignored the case, the media refused to report on it, and the NYPD covered up the attack’s racial character.

See here for more detail:
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In one recent incident, on March 30 in Marine Park, Brooklyn, six white Catholic school girls from St. Edmond’s high school were attacked for 20 minutes by approximately 30 black boys and girls who beat the girls to a pulp, while shouting racial epithets (“black power!” "honky b-----s!" “white crackers!” “Martin Luther King!”). (Five of the victims were 15 years old; one was older.) The NYPD censored the racial epithets from police reports, and the New York media likewise refused to report on the attack. However, when a little community newspaper broke through the wall of silence, and Internet sites publicized the story nationwide, the mainstream media were forced to report on the attack. And yet, a number of mainstream reporters displayed more anger at the gutsy little newspaper and reporter that scooped them, and the Web sites, than at the attackers.

As the white girls were playing basketball, a group of six black girls from nearby Marine Park Junior High School ordered them to surrender the court. The white girls refused, and according to Brooklyn Skyline reporter Marianna Hernandez, some adults intervened, telling the black girls to wait their turn.

Though they were in a largely white neighborhood, the black girls were as contemptuous of the white adults as of the girls, and returned several times, each time with more black allies. Finally, when the mob reached about thirty 13 and 14-year-old black boys and girls, they swooped down on the white girls, punching, kicking, and stomping them. The victims’ wounds included chunks of hair ripped out of one girl’s head, a broken nose, a torn arm muscle, head trauma. One white victim ran into traffic to escape, and could easily have been killed.[hmmmmm....now where have I heard this before? - Paley] Indeed, had the attackers been older, they might have beaten to death some or all of the white girls. Two victims required hospitalization.

[my emphasis]

The author then proceeds to support these assertions. Keep digging yourself a hole, Russell - sooner or later you're bound to strike oil. By the way, is this the Central Park Jogger case you've been yammering about? It seems that some details got lost along the way....
Quote
Since seizing upon Matias Reyes, the mainstream media has so grossly misrepresented the case, as to all but erase the difference between them and their racist, black counterparts. A September 11 story by New York Daily News reporter Alice McQuillan, could have been written by the attackers' lawyers. McQuillan omitted all of the evidence that convicted the attackers, and quoted black supremacist attorney Roger Wareham (December 12th Movement), who represents attackers Antron McCray, Raymond Santana, and Kevin Richardson as saying, "They had made up their mind, they had somebody else, they didn't want anything to spoil their neatly tied package of convictions and they used these children as scapegoats." "Children," indeed. Meanwhile, Wareham's co-counsel, Michael Warren, insists that the confessions were gotten "through the most abhorrent form of psychological duress." With few exceptions, the New York media have followed McQuillan's example. But Alice McQuillan is a fearless truth-teller, compared to the Village Voice's Dasun Allah, who fabricated a new history, whereby whites had invented the term "wilding," in order to "brand black youth." The movement to clear the five Central Park attackers must be seen in the context of movements to free other blacks convicted of heinous crimes. One such movement supported former Black Panther Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin (H. Rap Brown), convicted last year, and sentenced to life, for his 2000 assassination of Fulton County, Georgia Sheriff's Deputy Ricky Kinchen, and for seriously wounding Deputy Aldranon English. The king of such movements seeks the release of former Black Panther Mumia abu Jamal (Wesley Cook), on death row for the 1981 assassination of Philadelphia police Officer Daniel Faulkner. Abu-Jamal/Cook and Al-Amin/Brown's supporters insist that their heroes, too, were railroaded. Note too that Al-Amin's victims were both black. According to black supremacist belief, black law enforcement officers who arrest, rather than aid black criminals, are traitors to the race. Such beliefs owe their influence to their enthusiastic support by white elites in the media, education, and even law enforcement.


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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,13:42   

Quote

Gosh, if only GoP spent as much time on his science as he does on his politics, we'd all be convinced the sun revolves around the earth by now...

LOL so you're saying a silk purse can be made from a sow's ear, given enough time.

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,14:00   

Quote
The author then proceeds to support these assertions. Keep digging yourself a hole, Russell - sooner or later you're bound to strike oil.
Here I am, sticking up for you, telling folks that, surely your next post would tell us what your point is, and you let me down again.
Quote
By the way, is this the Central Park Jogger case you've been yammering about? It seems that some details got lost along the way....
That's the case all right. The point that seems to have gotten lost - on you anyway - is that the wrong guys were convicted, amidst a great deal of press sensationalism about black on white crime. What's your point? That the wrongly convicted kids were dirtbags and therefore no one should lose any sleep over their being wrongly convicted? I think I'll take the press, with all its biases, over you and your biases, thank you very much. I think you're a lot more dangerous.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,14:16   

Eric:
Quote
Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ May 09 2006,18:35)
In short, there's absolutely no reason, financial or otherwise, for this case to go unheard. Well, maybe one.....

…because the "liberal" press is hoping whites will remain unafraid of blacks, so blacks can kill all the white people?

Where are you going with this, Bill? You claim to have uncovered a crime. Could you favor us with your interpretation as to motive?


Look, can we agree that massive immigration serves the interests of both liberals (gotta overturn the Evil West) and big bidness ("Those furriners sure work cheap, don't they?")? If you grant that, then it becomes clear that the media can't let Joe Sixpack get restless about the potential consequences of massive, uncontrolled immigration, which may include massive, uncontrolled violence against the native population. And since whites are responsible for the sorry state of___(fill in the blank), they make a better target for violence than anyone else. Given enough stories of minority-on-majority violence, even the dullest citizen may begin connecting the dots. And our plutocracy just can't abide that.

Russell:
Quote
The point that seems to have gotten lost - on you anyway - is that the wrong guys were convicted, amidst a great deal of press sensationalism about black on white crime.

Please read the link. Number one, the evidence convicting those fellas was pretty solid, so even if the prosecution was mistaken, then how would the media know this (absent a time machine)? Number two, the prosecutors may not have been completely wrong.
Quote
On the other hand, evidence tending to implicate Richardson included this: He led prosecutors to the scene of the crime. There were dirt and grass stains in the crotch of his undershorts. He confessed on videotape to being at the scene of the attack. He gave a detailed description of the attack. He admitted that the deep scratch wound on his cheek was inflicted by the jogger. But wait! The "Innocence Project" has produced an 11th-hour confession from a sixth rapist, Matias Reyes. Stunning no one but gullible reporters, he claims he acted alone. As is always the case with surprise confessions exonerating others, Reyes faces no penalty for this confession. To the contrary, Reyes is surely the toast of his cellblock ? where, by happenstance, he is serving time with another Central Park rapist, Kharey Wise. The statute of limitations has run on the rape and Reyes is already serving life in prison. Compare Reyes' new confession to the videotaped confessions of the five animals back in 1989. Their confessions would land them in prison. These were "statements against interest" in the strongest sense of the phrase. And yet, they still confessed. Their confessions were tested in court, attacked by defense counsel, and believed by two unanimous juries. But liberals treat these confessions as laughable frauds. Only Reyes' literally inconsequential confession is treated like Holy Scripture.
[....]
In 10 videotaped statements, members of the wolf pack implicated one another as well as themselves. They corroborated aspects of one another's stories. The police obtained statements from literally dozens of teen-agers who were in the park the night the jogger was attacked. In the end, only five of those who gave statements were prosecuted for the attack on the jogger. Consider that when the savages confessed, it was still possible that the jogger would emerge from her coma, remember everything, and identify her attackers with blinding clarity.

You may object to Ms. Coulter's anger and overheated language, but you gotta admit the facts are a bit more complicated than the media would have us believe.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,15:16   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ May 11 2006,19:16)
Look, can we agree that massive immigration serves the interests of both liberals (gotta overturn the Evil West) and big bidness ("Those furriners sure work cheap, don't they?")? If you grant that, then it becomes clear that the media can't let Joe Sixpack get restless about the potential consequences of massive, uncontrolled immigration, which may include massive, uncontrolled violence against the native population. And since whites are responsible for the sorry state of___(fill in the blank), they make a better target for violence than anyone else. Given enough stories of minority-on-majority violence, even the dullest citizen may begin connecting the dots. And our plutocracy just can't abide that.

Is that really your fear, Bill? Massive immigration will lead to massive, uncontrolled violence against the native population? Is that what this is all about? You're really afraid of the brown hordes killing all us white folk?

Wow. Talk about much ado about nothing…

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

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stevestory



Posts: 13407
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(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,15:20   

Quote
Look, can we agree that massive immigration serves the interests of both liberals (gotta overturn the Evil West)
As both a card carrying liberal and holder of an undergrad physics degree, I can tell you Paley's understanding of liberals is roughly the same as his understanding of the -centricity of the solar system.

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,15:53   

Quote
You may object to Ms. Coulter's anger and overheated language, but you gotta admit the facts are a bit more complicated than the media would have us believe.
My point exactly. The media would have had us believe that it was an open and shut case against the kids that, in fact, got convicted and spent years in prison.  The media did not question the police procedures that somehow produced confessions from kids that contradict the confession of Reyes. The media, in short, behaved exactly the way you say they never do: they hyped up a sensational story involving black-on-white crime.

And, no, I don't accept the word of Ann Coulter for anything. In the absence of any solid evidence to the contrary, I think it's generally a good bet that whatever Coulter says is pretty much the opposite of reality. Is Ms. Coulter not, though, a member of that MainStream Medium you're telling us not to trust?

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
The Ghost of Paley



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(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,16:00   

Eric:
Quote
Is that really your fear, Bill? Massive immigration will lead to massive, uncontrolled violence against the native population?

No, although I don't discount a massive crime increase, a continued erosion of liberties, and a further decline in core Western values. And yes, a hugely disproportionate number of those victims will be white. And apparently many people share my concerns - that's why survey after survey shows the American (and European) public wants the government to control immigration.
Quote
A USA TODAY/Gallup Poll taken Friday through Sunday found a majority of those surveyed want to make it a crime for foreigners to immigrate illegally to the USA and for Americans to help those illegal immigrants once they arrive.

Still, nearly two-thirds also say the government should allow illegal immigrants to remain and become U.S. citizens if they meet certain requirements over time.
[....]
Eight in 10 say illegal immigration to the USA is "out of control." More than nine in 10 say it's important for the government to take steps this year to control the borders and deal with those illegal immigrants who already are here. The feelings about border security are particularly intense.

Yet most Americans are pessimistic about whether that effort could ever succeed.

Six in 10 say that no matter what the government does, a "sizable number" of illegal immigrants will be able to get into the country.

Or try here. Or here. But I'm sure you can set those paranoid loonies straight -  right, Eric? ???

I've got to start preparing my physics, guys.....

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
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(Permalink) Posted: May 11 2006,17:21   

Quote
No, although I don't discount a massive crime increase, a continued erosion of liberties, and a further decline in core Western values. And yes, a hugely disproportionate number of those victims will be white.


I don't know why you'd expect crime to go up, since it's been going down more or less steadily since the 1980s, during which time illegal immigration certainly hasn't gone down. Seems like hardly something to worry about, let alone get all up in arms about.
Quote
But I'm sure you can set those paranoid loonies straight -  right, Eric? ???


All by myself? Doubtful. I can't even persuade you.

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,02:48   

Quote
I've got to start preparing my physics, guys.....
so I guess you're done here? You've shown us all you've got on the Mainstream Media's Liberal Agenda? Color me "unimpressed".

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
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(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,04:49   

Quote
No, although I don't discount a massive crime increase, a continued erosion of liberties, and a further decline in core Western values.


Considering that Mexicans are about 98% catholic, are you saying that all these catholics lack western values?

   
Flint



Posts: 478
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,05:03   

Quote
No, although I don't discount a massive crime increase, a continued erosion of liberties, and a further decline in core Western values. And yes, a hugely disproportionate number of those victims will be white. And apparently many people share my concerns - that's why survey after survey shows the American (and European) public wants the government to control immigration.

One almost doesn't know where to start. Could there possibly be any reason for defending and respecting a nation's borders besides fear of the terrible things people might do if they cross the borders without permission? What does nationality mean anyway?

And it's true that IF there is more crime and IF that crime is evenly distributed, then those with the most wealth and privilege will suffer more crime. Of course, both of these conditionals are false. In fact, there is less crime, and in fact, most crime is local - black on black, hispanic on hispanic, etc. But facts can't dent fears. I notice that Ghost expects crimes against whites to be disproportionate. Given the facts, this is unsupported. Not that support matters, I guess.

Ghost's surveys don't say WHY most people want to curb illegal immigration. Perhaps some of them genuinely do so out of fears contrary to observation. As for the "decline in core Western values", if there's any distinction between this code phrase and Ghost worrying about losing a privileged position, I haven't seen it.

(And as a supremely ironic footnote, there is some fairly compelling indication that the recent decline in crime rates is a direct downstream result of the legalization of abortion. It seems that legalized abortion took a major (and disproportionate) bite out of the birth rate among single, poor women in high-crime areas. Maybe Ghost thinks we should have maintained the high crime rate so as to defend "Western core values"?)

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,08:05   

Um... Ghost, after reading your arguments for a possible motive for all this proposed liberal bias, I must say I have a problem. See, I'm having difficulty finding an example among those you mentioned (the undermined crimes) where the perpetrator was an immigrant. As a matter of fact, I'm having difficulty in finding anyone who wasn't an African American. Can you help me here?

Also, another thing, about your "Truman Capote" argument for denying a  commercial potential to the supposed undermining of the Wichita Massacre...

Now, I know you just quoted the AmRen site (you're too smart to propose an argument like that, it's just you're also too bored to bother coming up with your own)- but I really want to know: Do you actually believe that the only difference between the two events, as far as public sensation and media potential are concerned, is the murderers' race? I'd really like a straight answer.

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A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Flint



Posts: 478
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(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,09:12   

Quote
I'd really like a straight answer.

Uh, far out. Can I have a unicorn? Huh, can I?

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,09:39   

stevestory:
Quote
Considering that Mexicans are about 98% catholic, are you saying that all these catholics lack western values?

This question actually touches upon my basic ambivalence towards our massive Hispanic immigration. On the one hand, Hispanic people(s) do seem to value hard work, faith, and family. On the other hand, their culture(s) also seems to suffer from high levels of crime, a pervasive anti-intellectualism, and a sense of entitlement that seems inseparable from their ethnic identity. They apparently view values such as sexual modesty and respectful attitudes toward women as "anglo", and have little incentive in preserving them. It could be worse - we could be invaded by Muslims like France, Denmark or The Netherlands. But at least the Danes are wising up to the true "benefits" of diversity:
Quote
* Living on the dole: Third-world immigrants - most of them Muslims from countries such as Turkey, Somalia, Pakistan, Lebanon and Iraq - constitute 5 percent of the population but consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending.

* Engaging in crime: Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes.

* Self-imposed isolation: Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane.

* Importing unacceptable customs: Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes on pain of death - are one problem.

Another is threats to kill Muslims who convert out of Islam. One Kurdish convert to Christianity, who went public to explain why she had changed religion, felt the need to hide her face and conceal her identity, fearing for her life.

* Fomenting anti-Semitism: Muslim violence threatens Denmark's approximately 6,000 Jews, who increasingly depend on police protection. Jewish parents were told by one school principal that she could not guarantee their children's safety and were advised to attend another institution. Anti-Israel marches have turned into anti-Jewish riots. One organization, Hizb-ut-Tahrir, openly calls on Muslims to "kill all Jews . . . wherever you find them."

* Seeking Islamic law: Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim.

[also see the followup debate - it's a hoot! - Paley]

As for the Dutch:
Quote
THE first time the Dutch hoped it was a freak incident. But a second political murder in the Netherlands in the space of two years has left this country, which has long prided itself on its tolerant, liberal values, in deep shock. Dutch people fear that they may now live in a place where violence has become a way of settling differences of opinion—especially over rocky relations with a growing Muslim minority.

An outspoken and provocative film director, Theo van Gogh, was murdered in Amsterdam on the morning of November 2nd. A 26-year-old Dutch Moroccan apparently emptied a magazine of bullets into his victim, knifed him as he lay dying and left a note stabbed into his body. He was arrested after a shoot-out with police. Ironically, Mr Van Gogh was killed as he was cycling to the studio to finish editing a film about the previous political murder, of the flamboyant anti-immigrant populist Pim Fortuyn in May 2002. Fortuyn, whom Mr Van Gogh admired, was killed by an animal-rights activist of ethnic-Dutch origin. At the time the fact that the killer was neither Muslim nor an immigrant was greeted with relief by politicians and public alike.


No such relief this time. The victim was an outspoken and often offensive critic of Islam, who once called radical Islamist immigrants “a fifth column of goatfuckers”. His killer was a jallaba-clad Muslim immigrant and associate of a radical group that Dutch intelligence has been watching. Police arrested eight more Islamist suspects the next day. The justice minister said the murder stemmed from “radical Islamic beliefs”. Mr Van Gogh was killed a few months after the screening on television of his film “Submission”. The film, based on a screenplay by a Dutch parliamentarian, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, features a Muslim woman in a see-through burqa telling a story of abuse within her marriage; she has text from the Koran condoning family violence written on to her naked body.

Ms Hirsi Ali is a Somali refugee who has made a career in Dutch politics by standing against radical Islam and defending her adopted homeland's liberal values. She even quit the Dutch Labour Party for the liberals because she thought it too soft on illiberal Islam. Both she and Mr Van Gogh received death threats after “Submission” was shown. She accepted protection, but he waved the threats away, saying he was just “a merry village fool”. Who would want to kill somebody like that?
[...]
Despite the speedy condemnation of the murder by most Muslim organisations, it could still provoke a sharper clash. This is more worrying since the Netherlands is a country where, at least economically, immigrants do better than in many others. Although they are worse off than the ethnic Dutch, there is no immigrant underclass, and no real ghettos exist. Some immigrants are, like Ms Hirsi Ali, already joining the Dutch middle class, both in incomes and in lifestyle.

Uh - huh.
Geert Wilders might have a few things to say about that. More later.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,09:59   

Faid:
Quote
Now, I know you just quoted the AmRen site (you're too smart to propose an argument like that, it's just you're also too bored to bother coming up with your own)- but I really want to know: Do you actually believe that the only difference between the two events, as far as public sensation and media potential are concerned, is the murderers' race? I'd really like a straight answer.

No, there are other factors - some on your side, some on mine. Nevertheless, I do believe that if the Carr brothers had been white (and everything else had stayed the same), then the media would have been all over that story. It's got everything: sympathetic victims, sociopathic killers who rape, degrade, and mutilate their victims, and even a survivor's testimony. How could it have missed? Remember, the press was bored enough to cover the Winona shoplifting trial - why not a crime that mixes murder, sex, and ritual humiliation in such a commercially potent brew?

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,10:34   

Not with a bang, but with a whimper, Bill.

It seems like this whole thread has basically come down to a pretty weak argument in favor of a peculiar flavor of xenophobia. Peculiar, given that xenophobia seems particularly inapplicable in a country composed almost entirely of immigrant populations.

Given that I live in a city where caucasians are in a distinct minority, and probably well over half of the city is composed of first- or second-generation immigrants, I can say with fair confidence that Bill's fears are poorly-founded. San Francisco doesn't seem to have an unusually-high crime rate for cities of its size, despite its huge immigrant population. I should know; I live smack downtown, the part of the city which in areas of the country where immigrants are far less visible, white flight is at its most obvious.

Could it be that Bill has it exactly backwards?

Also, I still haven't seen a persuasive argument as to why, exactly, the "liberal" mainstream media should be castigated for its perceived failure to whip up anti-immigrant hysteria.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,10:56   

Well, I dunno about your factors, Ghost, but I only need to name one: 1959.

As for Whine-ona: Not unsuprisingly, here's what I wrote one page ago:
Quote
Now, remember: I said expect - not deserve. I'm not saying that the media is fair in doing so. The media might think that a white guy killing a black would work better in today's news than a black killing a white- however, they might also think that another silly comment by the prez would work better than both. I'm just saying.

You see, the media weren't bored enough to bother with news of a famous actor arrested for shoplifting; they drooled over it. That's why even we heard all about Winona's doings here in Greece, from our media (and nothing about Wichita, of course): That's what was deemed prime news. It's sad, it's pathetic, it's infuriating, and it's true.

Anyway, about your examples... How do they demonstrate protection of immigrants again?

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,11:02   

Quote (stevestory @ May 11 2006,18:42)
Quote

Gosh, if only GoP spent as much time on his science as he does on his politics, we'd all be convinced the sun revolves around the earth by now...

LOL so you're saying a silk purse can be made from a sow's ear, given enough time.

Well, that's how most religions got established... :p

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,11:10   

Quote (stevestory @ May 12 2006,09:49)
Quote
No, although I don't discount a massive crime increase, a continued erosion of liberties, and a further decline in core Western values.


Considering that Mexicans are about 98% catholic, are you saying that all these catholics lack western values?

Nah, if only they had whiter skin and spoke English, they'd qualify as sufficiently 'Western'. Western as defined by conservative Republicans, of course.

Quote
This question actually touches upon my basic ambivalence towards our massive Hispanic immigration. On the one hand, Hispanic people(s) do seem to value hard work, faith, and family. On the other hand, their culture(s) also seems to suffer from high levels of crime, a pervasive anti-intellectualism,


Sounds like the American South to me! :-)

Quote
and a sense of entitlement


'Entitlement'? ? ? They come here to WORK, and they work 50-60 hours a week at shit jobs. How is that 'entitlement'?

Quote
that seems inseparable from their ethnic identity.


Suddenly GOP is an expert anthropologist.

Quote
They apparently view values such as sexual modesty and respectful attitudes toward women as "anglo", and have little incentive in preserving them.


Do you actually KNOW any Hispanics, GoP?  Like KNOW them, aside from your maid, Mexican day laborers you see from your car, and facile racism on rightwing websites? Since I live in an area with a lot of Hispanics, and what you're describing here sounds like fantasy land.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 12 2006,11:49   

Quote
On the other hand, their culture(s) also seems to suffer from high levels of crime, a pervasive anti-intellectualism
anti-intellectualism? Isn't that one of your values?

ROTFL the geocentrist is complaining about anti-intellectualism. What is it about creationism that confers genius-level abilities in the Unintentional Irony department.

   
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