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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 3

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MichaelJ Posts: 462 Joined: June 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,16:50    Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 10 2009,06:51) New socks will emerge. This thread makes Barry look so unhinged I suspect a 404 / server burp is on the way. Any sort of reasoned dialogue with them makes them look assclowns, and it needs to happen for that reason. I think that they are oblivious to how stupid they look. Stephen has had the same discussion before and it made no difference then and it will make no difference now.

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,17:48    Quote (MichaelJ @ Oct. 09 2009,17:50) Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 10 2009,06:51) New socks will emerge. This thread makes Barry look so unhinged I suspect a 404 / server burp is on the way. Any sort of reasoned dialogue with them makes them look assclowns, and it needs to happen for that reason. I think that they are oblivious to how stupid they look. Stephen has had the same discussion before and it made no difference then and it will make no difference now. I agree. Conversing with StephenB is like watching Galvani talk to a frog's leg. The twitches are entirely predictable after a while. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

dvunkannon Posts: 1377 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,19:29    Reaping the Whirlwind, StuartHarris opines Quote Cultures that continue polygamy over time have a problem on their hands: what to do with all the volatile single young men? Get them involved in a religious or political movement is the common solution. Islamic jihad is a good example. I thought he was going to mention BYU. -------------- I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,21:08    FTK rises from the dormant. The level of discourse at UD has nowhere to go but up, so why not? -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,21:41    Quote (dvunkannon @ Oct. 09 2009,15:48) Quote (MichaelJ @ Oct. 09 2009,17:50)   Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 10 2009,06:51) New socks will emerge. This thread makes Barry look so unhinged I suspect a 404 / server burp is on the way. Any sort of reasoned dialogue with them makes them look assclowns, and it needs to happen for that reason. I think that they are oblivious to how stupid they look. Stephen has had the same discussion before and it made no difference then and it will make no difference now. I agree. Conversing with StephenB is like watching Galvani talk to a frog's leg. The twitches are entirely predictable after a while. For example, unwarranted declarations of victory: Quote Cheer up. Materialist/Darwinists come here primarily to scrutinize ID and escape scrutiny. They are seldom required to play defense. This thread shows how easily they loose their poise when asked to do so. It should happen more often. Woo-hoo! Yet another Waterloo.  How many is that now? -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,22:02    Quote (franky172 @ Oct. 09 2009,07:57) Quote (didymos @ Oct. 09 2009,00:08) Oh, for fuck's sake!  Weasel.  Again. Supposedly, this covers "every conceivable interpretation" of the program described in Blind Watchmaker.  Here be the source.  Haven't looked at it yet myself. The amazing part? You don't have to write 5 versions of "Weasel", most of which have nothing to do with GA's to prove anything.  Just one correct one will do. http://www.evoinfo.org/WeaselMath.html Quote First, let's look at partitioned search used by Dr. Dawkins.  Assuming uniformity, the probability of successfully identifying a specified letter with sample replacement at least once in Q queries is ... Hmmmm... -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

socle Posts: 322 Joined: July 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,23:16    Quote (Touchstone @ Oct. 09 2009,10:19) Just getting around to reading this trainwreck of a thread, I'm struck by Dembski's finish to this comment:       Quote If so, why not cheer Polanski on when he has the wisdom to see through the illusion and sample the choice flesh of a 13-year old? *barfs* I haven't been following UD for a few weeks, but I'd swear it's ten times worse than the last time I checked:  Global warming denialism, evolution => Hitler, Weasel: A New Beginning, Errington's meltdown, etc.  It's pretty bad when the only remotely science-related post on the front page was written by Corny Hunter.  What a bunch of putzes.

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 09 2009,23:39    Quote 9 October 2009 Transcript of McWhorter-Behe Blogginheads Discussion William Dembski For the original online McWhorter-Behe discussion, go here. Thanks to one of my research assistants for making the transcript. We can conclude 1. WMAD has or at least pretends to have more than 1 "research" assistant 2. If that's what WMAD calls research one doesn't want to know his other research 3. It must suck to be WMAD's "research" assistant Edited to add link. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,03:45    More than 24 hours The Consummate WEASEL and KairosFocus aka Gordon E. Mullings didn't show up. Has he been silently banniated too? -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,06:32    Quote feebish 10/10/2009 12:32 am Great fun. I used “Weasels Ripped my Flesh” Frank Zappa quoted on UD. These ARE the end times. The applicable Weasels Ripped my Flesh lyric vis UD is: "I think you're probably out to lunch." -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,07:14    Stuart Harris   Quote We can see a similar result caused by Western nations’ welfare states. Women become dependant on the state, essentially marrying the government to provide them with material sustenance and security. Men in the welfare culture live outside a culture that needs marriage, and become superfluous loners with a vastly greater likelihood of committing crimes and joining gangs as a substitute for family. The welfare state destroys marriage therefore men become criminals? Ah, yes. Just stop giving out welfare cheques and crime rates will drop. That'll work. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

JLT Posts: 740 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,07:32    Quote 29 Clive Hayden 10/10/2009 7:06 am Well, if you adhere to the materialistic framework that evolution explains our existence, then it must explain our whole existence, in which case you can put the blame for everything squarely on the shoulders of evolution. HAHHHAHAAAA! Clive,baby you didn't think that through, do you.     Quote Well, if you adhere to the materialistic Christian framework that evolution God explains our existence, then it must explain our whole existence, in which case you can put the blame for everything squarely on the shoulders of evolution God. At least, in a "materialistic framework" things just happen to be the way they are, nobody wanted them to be exactly as they are. -------------- "Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...] Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,11:08    Quote (JLT @ Oct. 10 2009,07:14) Stuart Harris     Quote We can see a similar result caused by Western nations’ welfare states. Women become dependant on the state, essentially marrying the government to provide them with material sustenance and security. Men in the welfare culture live outside a culture that needs marriage, and become superfluous loners with a vastly greater likelihood of committing crimes and joining gangs as a substitute for family. The welfare state destroys marriage therefore men become criminals? Ah, yes. Just stop giving out welfare cheques and crime rates will drop. That'll work. And here I thought that from 1950-2000 the larger problem was the low wages (v. cost-of-living increases) paid out by "conservative" companies and corporations to middle class workers. When both parents feel pressured to join the workforce,  junior picks up the crack pipe, runs amok and joins a cult like ...well, UD. Ignore those statistics, though, I guess. Clearly it's all the fault of those damn libbruls. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

DiEb Posts: 312 Joined: May 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,11:43    I'd love to start a new topic - but it seems that I'm not allowed to do so. Could someone start a thread titled Conservation of Information in Search - factual errors in an article of R. Marks and W. Dembski (or something like that)? It would be nice to have a place to collect our critique of their weaselings... One problem with the article is that it is so sloppily written: For instance, the references seem just to be copied together (like creationistic pamphlets of old) from earlier works. And every time, I touch one, I find an error. That's not the fault of the reviewers, as those aren't expected to check the references - it's the fault of Dembski and Marks. And it is a typical sign of sloppy research.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,12:20    Quote (DiEb @ Oct. 10 2009,11:43) I'd love to start a new topic - but it seems that I'm not allowed to do so. Could someone start a thread titled Conservation of Information in Search - factual errors in an article of R. Marks and W. Dembski (or something like that)? It would be nice to have a place to collect our critique of their weaselings... One problem with the article is that it is so sloppily written: For instance, the references seem just to be copied together (like creationistic pamphlets of old) from earlier works. And every time, I touch one, I find an error. That's not the fault of the reviewers, as those aren't expected to check the references - it's the fault of Dembski and Marks. And it is a typical sign of sloppy research. There's one here: http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....34;st=0 for Evo Computation stuff. Topics range from Weasel and Mendel's Accountant to Dembski-Marks & Sanford, ReMine, etc. I think it mostly dealt with Sanford, if I recall correctly, though. If that seems unsuitable, or you feel a dedicated thread is preferable, I'm sure that'd be done easily by someone. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,13:20    Quote (JLT @ Oct. 10 2009,05:14) Stuart Harris     Quote We can see a similar result caused by Western nations’ welfare states. Women become dependant on the state, essentially marrying the government to provide them with material sustenance and security. Men in the welfare culture live outside a culture that needs marriage, and become superfluous loners with a vastly greater likelihood of committing crimes and joining gangs as a substitute for family. The welfare state destroys marriage therefore men become criminals? Ah, yes. Just stop giving out welfare cheques and crime rates will drop. That'll work. Indeed. This explains the perpetual and bloody street violence between the Swedish branches of the Crips and Bloods. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Amadan Posts: 1337 Joined: Jan. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,13:42    ... and their hømies. Edited by Lou FCD on Oct. 10 2009,22:00 -------------- "People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011 JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

Turncoat Posts: 129 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,14:06    Quote (DiEb @ Oct. 10 2009,11:43) I'd love to start a new topic - but it seems that I'm not allowed to do so. Could someone start a thread titled Conservation of Information in Search - factual errors in an article of R. Marks and W. Dembski (or something like that)? It would be nice to have a place to collect our critique of their weaselings... One problem with the article is that it is so sloppily written: For instance, the references seem just to be copied together (like creationistic pamphlets of old) from earlier works. And every time, I touch one, I find an error. That's not the fault of the reviewers, as those aren't expected to check the references - it's the fault of Dembski and Marks. And it is a typical sign of sloppy research. It happens that I woke this morning wanting to start an engineering-oriented discussion of the article somewhere. I didn't even know that the "evolutionary computation" thread existed until now. The quality has been good, and there would be some advantage in just joining in. Then again, discussion of the D&M article deserves some prominence. Hmm... I'm going to ask on that thread whether participants think there should be a thread devoted to the D&M article. -------------- I never give them hell. I just tell the truth about them, and they think it's hell. — Harry S Truman

Reed Posts: 274 Joined: Feb. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,14:54    Quote (JLT @ Oct. 10 2009,05:14) Stuart Harris           Quote We can see a similar result caused by Western nations’ welfare states. Women become dependant on the state, essentially marrying the government to provide them with material sustenance and security. Men in the welfare culture live outside a culture that needs marriage, and become superfluous loners with a vastly greater likelihood of committing crimes and joining gangs as a substitute for family. The welfare state destroys marriage therefore men become criminals? Ah, yes. Just stop giving out welfare cheques and crime rates will drop. That'll work. Ooh someone on UD makes a testable hypothesis! So Mr Harris, how about you compare the rates of gang crime in the Nordic countries to those in the US. Oh right, ID doesn't get into pathetic details like actually testing hypotheses. Never mind.

Leftfield Posts: 107 Joined: Nov. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,16:19    Quote (Amadan @ Oct. 10 2009,13:42) ... and their hømies. POTW (phrase of the week?) -------------- Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

Reciprocating Bill Posts: 4265 Joined: Oct. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,17:18    Like one's unconscious shadow, Google ads maintains a silent running commentary upon UD's self-righteous moralists: -------------- Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be. "The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you." - David Foster Wallace "Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down." - Barry Arrington

keiths Posts: 2195 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,18:19    CannuckianYankee outs himself as a repressed gay: Quote However, on the issue of homosexuality, there are quite a number of individuals in this country who have homosexual feelings, but who do not want to live a lifestyle of having sex with others of the same gender. Their feelings are ignored because of the current PC, which renders homosexuality as natural and not a choice – even though these individuals attest to the idea that it is not natural, and that it is a choice – and from their own experience. I count myself among them. I wonder how the homophobes at UD will respond.  I remember that a while ago someone -- I think it was russ -- confessed at UD to having "homosexual impulses".  Their reaction then was to studiously ignore him while (I imagine) slowly edging away. ETA: I found russ's confession: Quote 13 russ 05/28/2008 12:40 pm Quote Religious conservatives are just as likely to have children who grow up to be gay as anyone else. I doubt that this is true, because the children of religious conservatives are taught (either explicitly or implicitly) to reinforce their “straight” impulses and resist their “gay” impulses. That was my experience. I CHOSE to be straight every time I resisted homosexual impulses in favor of a traditional Christian sexual orientation. As a direct result, I now have a wife and two kids. If I had gone with my feelings, I would likely not have produced any offspring at all. How can you say that religious training has no effect at all on sexual orientation? -------------- And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,18:30    Quote (keiths @ Oct. 10 2009,19:19) CannuckianYankee outs himself as a repressed gay: Quote However, on the issue of homosexuality, there are quite a number of individuals in this country who have homosexual feelings, but who do not want to live a lifestyle of having sex with others of the same gender. Their feelings are ignored because of the current PC, which renders homosexuality as natural and not a choice – even though these individuals attest to the idea that it is not natural, and that it is a choice – and from their own experience. I count myself among them. I wonder how the homophobes at UD will respond.  I remember that a while ago someone -- I think it was russ -- confessed at UD to having "homosexual impulses".  Their reaction then was to studiously ignore him while (I imagine) slowly edging away. ETA: I found russ's confession: Quote 13 russ 05/28/2008 12:40 pm Quote Religious conservatives are just as likely to have children who grow up to be gay as anyone else. I doubt that this is true, because the children of religious conservatives are taught (either explicitly or implicitly) to reinforce their “straight” impulses and resist their “gay” impulses. That was my experience. I CHOSE to be straight every time I resisted homosexual impulses in favor of a traditional Christian sexual orientation. As a direct result, I now have a wife and two kids. If I had gone with my feelings, I would likely not have produced any offspring at all. How can you say that religious training has no effect at all on sexual orientation? Seriously warped folks. -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,19:31    There is the thread that started for critique of the "unacknowledged costs" essay by Dembski and Marks. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,20:15    Quote (keiths @ Oct. 10 2009,16:19) CannuckianYankee outs himself as a repressed gay:   Quote However, on the issue of homosexuality, there are quite a number of individuals in this country who have homosexual feelings, but who do not want to live a lifestyle of having sex with others of the same gender. Their feelings are ignored because of the current PC, which renders homosexuality as natural and not a choice – even though these individuals attest to the idea that it is not natural, and that it is a choice – and from their own experience. I count myself among them. I wonder how the homophobes at UD will respond.  I remember that a while ago someone -- I think it was russ -- confessed at UD to having "homosexual impulses".  Their reaction then was to studiously ignore him while (I imagine) slowly edging away. ETA: I found russ's confession:   Quote 13 russ 05/28/2008 12:40 pm   Quote Religious conservatives are just as likely to have children who grow up to be gay as anyone else. I doubt that this is true, because the children of religious conservatives are taught (either explicitly or implicitly) to reinforce their “straight” impulses and resist their “gay” impulses. That was my experience. I CHOSE to be straight every time I resisted homosexual impulses in favor of a traditional Christian sexual orientation. As a direct result, I now have a wife and two kids. If I had gone with my feelings, I would likely not have produced any offspring at all. How can you say that religious training has no effect at all on sexual orientation? My advice to both Russ and CY: stay out of politics, airport restrooms, and the pants of congressional pages if at all possible.  Do not hire male "massage therapists" either. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

Turncoat Posts: 129 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,21:00    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 10 2009,19:31) There is the thread that started for critique of the "unacknowledged costs" essay by Dembski and Marks. That is an earlier draft of the "Conservation of Information" article, isn't it? Much of the factual / technical content is in regard to the abortive analysis of ev. Also, the last comment is about 1-1/2 years old, and dvunkannon says on the "Evolutionary Computation" thread:       Quote I'd prefer for that discussion to happen here. Special purpose threads are hard to find (at least for me). I prefer general threads that pick up topics as necessary. Viz. the discussion of Mendel's Accountant and previous Weasel discussions on this thread. -------------- I never give them hell. I just tell the truth about them, and they think it's hell. — Harry S Truman

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,21:01    Quote (didymos @ Oct. 10 2009,20:15) Quote (keiths @ Oct. 10 2009,16:19) CannuckianYankee outs himself as a repressed gay:   Quote However, on the issue of homosexuality, there are quite a number of individuals in this country who have homosexual feelings, but who do not want to live a lifestyle of having sex with others of the same gender. Their feelings are ignored because of the current PC, which renders homosexuality as natural and not a choice – even though these individuals attest to the idea that it is not natural, and that it is a choice – and from their own experience. I count myself among them. I wonder how the homophobes at UD will respond.  I remember that a while ago someone -- I think it was russ -- confessed at UD to having "homosexual impulses".  Their reaction then was to studiously ignore him while (I imagine) slowly edging away. ETA: I found russ's confession:   Quote 13 russ 05/28/2008 12:40 pm   Quote Religious conservatives are just as likely to have children who grow up to be gay as anyone else. I doubt that this is true, because the children of religious conservatives are taught (either explicitly or implicitly) to reinforce their “straight” impulses and resist their “gay” impulses. That was my experience. I CHOSE to be straight every time I resisted homosexual impulses in favor of a traditional Christian sexual orientation. As a direct result, I now have a wife and two kids. If I had gone with my feelings, I would likely not have produced any offspring at all. How can you say that religious training has no effect at all on sexual orientation? My advice to both Russ and CY: stay out of politics, airport restrooms, and the pants of congressional pages if at all possible.  Do not hire male "massage therapists" either. Also, they should not become evangelical preachers... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,21:19    Quote 10 October 2009 The 4,000 Barry Arrington This is UD’s 4,000th post.  Congrats and a hardy well done and thank you to all of our posters! Osteonectin rightly asks which posts they are counting exactly Quote Including those that had been 404ed? BTW, if my counting is correct this is the 5328th response at ATBC (I guess without those that had to be moved to the bathroom wall). -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,22:30    Quote (afarensis @ Oct. 10 2009,19:01) Quote (didymos @ Oct. 10 2009,20:15) Quote (keiths @ Oct. 10 2009,16:19) CannuckianYankee outs himself as a repressed gay:     Quote However, on the issue of homosexuality, there are quite a number of individuals in this country who have homosexual feelings, but who do not want to live a lifestyle of having sex with others of the same gender. Their feelings are ignored because of the current PC, which renders homosexuality as natural and not a choice – even though these individuals attest to the idea that it is not natural, and that it is a choice – and from their own experience. I count myself among them. I wonder how the homophobes at UD will respond.  I remember that a while ago someone -- I think it was russ -- confessed at UD to having "homosexual impulses".  Their reaction then was to studiously ignore him while (I imagine) slowly edging away. ETA: I found russ's confession:     Quote 13 russ 05/28/2008 12:40 pm     Quote Religious conservatives are just as likely to have children who grow up to be gay as anyone else. I doubt that this is true, because the children of religious conservatives are taught (either explicitly or implicitly) to reinforce their “straight” impulses and resist their “gay” impulses. That was my experience. I CHOSE to be straight every time I resisted homosexual impulses in favor of a traditional Christian sexual orientation. As a direct result, I now have a wife and two kids. If I had gone with my feelings, I would likely not have produced any offspring at all. How can you say that religious training has no effect at all on sexual orientation? My advice to both Russ and CY: stay out of politics, airport restrooms, and the pants of congressional pages if at all possible.  Do not hire male "massage therapists" either. Also, they should not become evangelical preachers... Indeed.  As well, maintain a narrow stance at all times. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

didymos Posts: 1828 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 10 2009,22:35    Someone's been fiddling with the PA system again: steve_h has been redacted:   Quote 178 steve_h 10/10/2009 5:53 pm Editors: The thrust of this comment: “People who disagree with me are the type of people who fly airplanes into buildings.” The comment and the commenter have been deleted from this site. ETA: Irony being, the thrust of Barry's whole post is "People who disagree with me are the type of people who rape kids/sample the choice flesh of 13-year olds." And of course, there's his other post, the thrust of which is "People who disagree with me are the type of people who go to school and murder their classmates and teachers." Seversky too:   Quote 179 Seversky 10/10/2009 5:57 pm DELETED. -------------- I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

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