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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,19:23   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,14:25)
The damn trolls keep making junk up as they go along, while the science defenders go on condoning it:

 
Quote
Finding Ground Truth from Above
Catherine Clabby

The vegetation covering much of Earth makes it tough to survey the planet’s surface from above. In other words, it’s difficult to see the ground-level features for the trees. Airborne light detection and ranging (LiDAR) technology has changed that. Combining laser surveying instruments and GPS, researchers make bare-Earth maps of thousands of square kilometers with decimeter resolution. William E. Carter cofounded the National Center for Airborne Laser Mapping, which is funded by the National Science Foundation and operated by the University of Houston and the University of California, Berkeley. Carter discussed the promise of the technology with American Scientist associate editor Catherine Clabby

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues.....m-above


 
Quote
Statistics and machine learning
In machine learning, the term "ground truth" refers to the accuracy of the training set's classification for supervised learning techniques. This is used in statistical models to prove or disprove research hypotheses. The term "ground truthing" refers to the process of gathering the proper objective (provable) data for this test. Compare with gold standard (test).

Bayesian spam filtering is a common example of supervised learning. In this system, the algorithm is manually taught the differences between spam and non-spam. This depends on the ground truth of the messages used to train the algorithm – inaccuracies in the ground truth will correlate to inaccuracies in the resulting spam/non-spam verdicts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki.......d_truth

None of the above has any relevance at all to unsupervised learning in cognitive systems that demonstrate how intelligence works.

I asked you to describe in your own words what ground-truthing means, and why you believe the term is being used erroneously in reference to your "model."  The fact that you're unable to do that is indicative of the fact that you don't understand what you're talking about and believe that throwing up impotent smokescreens will mask your ignorance.  

If you can't succinctly articulate your objections, it's a sure sign of intellectual deficit or laziness.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,20:19   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 30 2015,19:23)
I asked you to describe in your own words what ground-truthing means, and why you believe the term is being used erroneously in reference to your "model."

I have been in this area of science for a very long time and never once heard of the term used as N.Wells prescribes. And I am not going to give their new invention credibility by playing along the game.

I already explained that I already have the most demanding tests for comparing the behavior of the computer model to the real thing, and I showed way more than enough evidence that I am in fact using the systematics found over and over again in cognitive science.

If the models and diagrams from the best cognitive and machine learning experts in the world including the IBM Watson team that programmed the state of the art machine intelligence are not good enough for you then you're already so on your own in science you're the outcasts, not I.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,20:24   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,21:19)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 30 2015,19:23)
I asked you to describe in your own words what ground-truthing means, and why you believe the term is being used erroneously in reference to your "model."

I have been in this area of science for a very long time and never once heard of the term used as N.Wells prescribes. And I am not going to give their new invention credibility by playing along the game.

I already explained that I already have the most demanding tests for comparing the behavior of the computer model to the real thing, and I showed way more than enough evidence that I am in fact using the systematics found over and over again in cognitive science.

If the models and diagrams from the best cognitive and machine learning experts in the world including the IBM Watson team that programmed the state of the art machine intelligence are not good enough for you then you're already so on your own in science you're the outcasts, not I.

Delusional much?

You are no part of science.  You are just barely an observer of science, a thief of bright shiny words and something almost but not quite entirely unlike ideas.  Mostly those are fabrications of your own derangement. They have no connection to or bearing on the real world.

The only one, quite literally, who doesn't know this is you.
You pathetic failure.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,20:39   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,20:19)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 30 2015,19:23)
I asked you to describe in your own words what ground-truthing means, and why you believe the term is being used erroneously in reference to your "model."

I have been in this area of science for a very long time and never once heard of the term used as N.Wells prescribes. And I am not going to give their new invention credibility by playing along the game.

I already explained that I already have the most demanding tests for comparing the behavior of the computer model to the real thing, and I showed way more than enough evidence that I am in fact using the systematics found over and over again in cognitive science.

If the models and diagrams from the best cognitive and machine learning experts in the world including the IBM Watson team that programmed the state of the art machine intelligence are not good enough for you then you're already so on your own in science you're the outcasts, not I.

IBM Data Magazine
http://ibmdatamag.com/2014.......earning
Quote
The Ground Truth in Agile Machine Learning
Maintain a footing in ground truth

One of the interesting terms of art in this field is the concept of ground truth, as discussed in the article, “From Artificial and Computational Intelligence to Machine Learning.”1 The author discusses ground truth as a golden standard to which the learning algorithm needs to adapt. It involves a tutor that tells the student—that is, the machine-learning algorithm—what to learn. According to the author, normally the tutor is a human expert who labels the data examples to be categorized by the adaptive classifier, which is that same algorithm. By contrast, the two other main approaches to machine learning—unsupervised learning and reinforcement learning—eschew the notion of ground truth and attempt to automate the distillation of knowledge from data that no human tutor has pre-tagged.

In some broader sense, the epistemological notion of ground truth could apply to any machine-learning approach, if taken to mean the prior understanding of what sorts of patterns the algorithm is trained to search for. The truths being distilled from the data are those consistent with what domain experts—tutors—or quantitative experts—for example, statisticians, mathematicians, and so forth—consider meaningful.
(my emphasis)

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,21:40   

I do not have an algorithm that is trained to search for something.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,21:55   

Or in other words: what N.Wells just quoted is only applicable to "understanding of what sorts of patterns the algorithm is trained to search for".

I do not have a data mining algorithm, nor does it search for patterns, therefore there is no mined data for me to even test.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,21:59   

Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Just get a clue, Gary: you've got no evidence, no usable operational definitions, no decent regular definitions, no predictions, no logically valid, testable predictions - basically nothing but empty assertions.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,22:02   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2015,21:59)
Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Show me how you ground-truthed this favorite of yours:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news....ce.html

https://msu.edu/~pennoc....EI.html

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 30 2015,22:22   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,22:02)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2015,21:59)
Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Show me how you ground-truthed this favorite of yours:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news.......ce.html

https://msu.edu/~pennoc....EI.html

Or better yet just show me the "ground-truthing" results for the Avida evolved intelligence system, which you are suggesting you have already studied and yourself tested.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,06:45   

Quote
Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2015,21:59)
Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Show me how you ground-truthed this favorite of yours:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news.......ce.html

It's not my research, so I didn't ground-truth it.  However....


What science is about is developing a better approximation to reality.  The acid test of what we do in science is does our model do a better job of predicting reality than the previous model?  The process of running those tests is, broadly speaking, ground-truthing our model.  You don't do that - you don't ensure that your model is grounded in reality.  More narrowly, ground-truthing is checking a procedure or a routine to make sure that it behaves in a realistic fashion, that it produces results that have meaning in reality.  You don't do that either.

http://beacon-center.org/blog.......ptation
More specifically, this is a very nice example of Avida developing a model and then ground-truthing it with an experiment involving E. coli.  That alone answers your question.

More generally, Pennock here https://www.msu.edu/~pennoc....sEv.pdf
discusses why AVIDA is an instantiation of evolution rather than a simulation.  That's ground-truthing (ensuring its grounding in biological reality).

http://www.nabt.org/website....014.pdf
This is a nice little classroom exercise showing how Avida can be used to ground-truth an evolutionary model.

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article........ull
Not Avida, but the article just cited contains a lot about ground-truthing in evolutionary robotics in a really nicely written and far-ranging paper, although it doesn't doesn't use that term explicitly.  In particular note section 4.4 re "the reality gap" and what to do about it, but also note that much of the paper is concerned with issues of making aspects of robotics better matches to their biological counterparts (that's all about ground-truthing the robotics end of the equation) and about possibilities for using evolutionary robotics to ground-truth models and theories about how evolution works.

Also not Avida, but the next citation shows a more explicit but ultimately less expansive and less interesting role for ground-truthing in an evolutionary simulation
http://eplex.cs.ucf.edu/novelty....llo.pdf
It also has provides a good review of previous work:  Fogel et al. (1966) looks like it should be of interest to you, as they provide a vastly superior definition of intelligence to yours (albeit a regular definition rather than an operational one, which you also still need), “Intelligent behavior is a composite ability to predict one’s environment coupled with a translation of each prediction into a suitable response in light of some objective.”

Not ground-truthing but research by Clune (the second part of your Daily Telegraph article) showing the role of hypothesis testing, which would also be a good model for your work, should you ever decide to do something worth paying attention to:
http://journals.plos.org/ploscom....1004128

You are in dire need of ground-truthing your own thinking: "something obvious to you" does not mean "real and obvious to other people"; "something not obvious to you" does not mean "wrong".  In fact, generally the opposite seems true in both cases.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,07:46   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,23:22)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,22:02)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2015,21:59)
Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Show me how you ground-truthed this favorite of yours:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news.......ce.html

https://msu.edu/~pennoc....EI.html

Or better yet just show me the "ground-truthing" results for the Avida evolved intelligence system, which you are suggesting you have already studied and yourself tested.

On the one hand, Wesley has already provided reams of data that suffices to show that Avida is grounded in truth and reality.

On the other hand, that's entirely irrelevant.
You continue to act as if the failure of others, whether real or imagined, somehow add strength to your case.
This is, quite literally, insane.  Your effluent stands or falls on its own merits.  Of which, of course, there are none.  Regardless of whether any other [genuine] theory succeeds or fails.
You're not in a position to "win by default".
The strength of your case [which does not exist] is not bolstered by weakness in any other case.
You continue to make this mistake.  It is a common ID trope.
And it is wrong.  Blatantly wrong.  It is foundational blunder that prevents you from focusing on strengthening your own case.
It is a small part of why you, and the rest of the ID crew, are such bitter, spiteful, anti-enlightenment, lunatics.
Absent a grounding in truth, you have only lies.
Well, lies and madness.  Behe and Dembski have the "lies" bit pretty well wrapped up.  You and Gordon Mullings have top 'honors' in madness.

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,09:40   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 30 2015,20:19)
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 30 2015,19:23)
I asked you to describe in your own words what ground-truthing means, and why you believe the term is being used erroneously in reference to your "model."

I have been in this area of science for a very long time and never once heard of the term used as N.Wells prescribes. And I am not going to give their new invention credibility by playing along the game.

I already explained that I already have the most demanding tests for comparing the behavior of the computer model to the real thing, and I showed way more than enough evidence that I am in fact using the systematics found over and over again in cognitive science.

If the models and diagrams from the best cognitive and machine learning experts in the world including the IBM Watson team that programmed the state of the art machine intelligence are not good enough for you then you're already so on your own in science you're the outcasts, not I.

What do you mean when you say that you "...have been in this area of science for a very long time..."?  You haven't been "in" it at all outside of what you read on the web or in decades-old books.  You've demonstrated repeatedly that you don't understand basic concepts and terms (ground-truthing being just the latest example) and bend definitions to suit your flights of whimsy and fantasy.   You like to portray the practice of science  as a scam because you can't get your own ignorant foot in the door, but when it serves your purpose, science is a great and wonderful thing.

You want to go to heaven without dying first.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,09:42   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,06:45)
Quote
Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2015,21:59)
Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Show me how you ground-truthed this favorite of yours:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news.......ce.html

It's not my research, so I didn't ground-truth it.  However....


What science is about is developing a better approximation to reality.  The acid test of what we do in science is does our model do a better job of predicting reality than the previous model?  The process of running those tests is, broadly speaking, ground-truthing our model.  You don't do that - you don't ensure that your model is grounded in reality.  More narrowly, ground-truthing is checking a procedure or a routine to make sure that it behaves in a realistic fashion, that it produces results that have meaning in reality.  You don't do that either.

http://beacon-center.org/blog.......ptation
More specifically, this is a very nice example of Avida developing a model and then ground-truthing it with an experiment involving E. coli.  That alone answers your question.

More generally, Pennock here https://www.msu.edu/~pennoc....sEv.pdf
discusses why AVIDA is an instantiation of evolution rather than a simulation.  That's ground-truthing (ensuring its grounding in biological reality).

http://www.nabt.org/website....014.pdf
This is a nice little classroom exercise showing how Avida can be used to ground-truth an evolutionary model.

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article........ull
Not Avida, but the article just cited contains a lot about ground-truthing in evolutionary robotics in a really nicely written and far-ranging paper, although it doesn't doesn't use that term explicitly.  In particular note section 4.4 re "the reality gap" and what to do about it, but also note that much of the paper is concerned with issues of making aspects of robotics better matches to their biological counterparts (that's all about ground-truthing the robotics end of the equation) and about possibilities for using evolutionary robotics to ground-truth models and theories about how evolution works.

Also not Avida, but the next citation shows a more explicit but ultimately less expansive and less interesting role for ground-truthing in an evolutionary simulation
http://eplex.cs.ucf.edu/novelty....llo.pdf
It also has provides a good review of previous work:  Fogel et al. (1966) looks like it should be of interest to you, as they provide a vastly superior definition of intelligence to yours (albeit a regular definition rather than an operational one, which you also still need), “Intelligent behavior is a composite ability to predict one’s environment coupled with a translation of each prediction into a suitable response in light of some objective.”

Not ground-truthing but research by Clune (the second part of your Daily Telegraph article) showing the role of hypothesis testing, which would also be a good model for your work, should you ever decide to do something worth paying attention to:
http://journals.plos.org/ploscom....1004128

You are in dire need of ground-truthing your own thinking: "something obvious to you" does not mean "real and obvious to other people"; "something not obvious to you" does not mean "wrong".  In fact, generally the opposite seems true in both cases.

Yup, a con-artist.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,09:44   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ May 31 2015,09:40)
You want to go to heaven without dying first.

Or be given a diploma without having learned anything or attending any classes.

From Gary,
 
Quote
Yup, a con-artist.

To Gary,
OK, you've made a charge.  Now back it up with some specific supporting evidence for once in your life.

 
Quote
which you are suggesting you have already studied and yourself tested.

That, incidentally, is an out and out lie, so try and back that up too, while you are at it.    I have never said anything remotely like that, so if you can't back it up, it's a libel for which I demand a retraction and an apology.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,10:27   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,17:42)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,06:45)
Quote
Quote (N.Wells @ May 30 2015,21:59)
Models such as yours require ground-truthing.  What I cited was an example that recognized ground-truthing to be a common and important practice, notwithstanding your ignorance of it.

Show me how you ground-truthed this favorite of yours:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news.......ce.html

It's not my research, so I didn't ground-truth it.  However....


What science is about is developing a better approximation to reality.  The acid test of what we do in science is does our model do a better job of predicting reality than the previous model?  The process of running those tests is, broadly speaking, ground-truthing our model.  You don't do that - you don't ensure that your model is grounded in reality.  More narrowly, ground-truthing is checking a procedure or a routine to make sure that it behaves in a realistic fashion, that it produces results that have meaning in reality.  You don't do that either.

http://beacon-center.org/blog.......ptation
More specifically, this is a very nice example of Avida developing a model and then ground-truthing it with an experiment involving E. coli.  That alone answers your question.

More generally, Pennock here https://www.msu.edu/~pennoc....sEv.pdf
discusses why AVIDA is an instantiation of evolution rather than a simulation.  That's ground-truthing (ensuring its grounding in biological reality).

http://www.nabt.org/website....014.pdf
This is a nice little classroom exercise showing how Avida can be used to ground-truth an evolutionary model.

http://journal.frontiersin.org/article........ull
Not Avida, but the article just cited contains a lot about ground-truthing in evolutionary robotics in a really nicely written and far-ranging paper, although it doesn't doesn't use that term explicitly.  In particular note section 4.4 re "the reality gap" and what to do about it, but also note that much of the paper is concerned with issues of making aspects of robotics better matches to their biological counterparts (that's all about ground-truthing the robotics end of the equation) and about possibilities for using evolutionary robotics to ground-truth models and theories about how evolution works.

Also not Avida, but the next citation shows a more explicit but ultimately less expansive and less interesting role for ground-truthing in an evolutionary simulation
http://eplex.cs.ucf.edu/novelty....llo.pdf
It also has provides a good review of previous work:  Fogel et al. (1966) looks like it should be of interest to you, as they provide a vastly superior definition of intelligence to yours (albeit a regular definition rather than an operational one, which you also still need), “Intelligent behavior is a composite ability to predict one’s environment coupled with a translation of each prediction into a suitable response in light of some objective.”

Not ground-truthing but research by Clune (the second part of your Daily Telegraph article) showing the role of hypothesis testing, which would also be a good model for your work, should you ever decide to do something worth paying attention to:
http://journals.plos.org/ploscom....1004128

You are in dire need of ground-truthing your own thinking: "something obvious to you" does not mean "real and obvious to other people"; "something not obvious to you" does not mean "wrong".  In fact, generally the opposite seems true in both cases.

Yup, a con-artist.

Gary's most accurate projection so far.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,10:39   

Science succeeds.
Gary fails.

He's just jealous.  If it weren't for lies and errors, he'd have nothing at all to say.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,11:00   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,09:44)
That, incidentally, is an out and out lie, so try and back that up too, while you are at it.    I have never said anything remotely like that, so if you can't back it up, it's a libel for which I demand a retraction and an apology.

You trashed my computer models and theory by pretending to be a "ground-truthing" expert who needs generalizations like this:

Quote
“Intelligent behavior is a composite ability to predict one’s environment coupled with a translation of each prediction into a suitable response in light of some objective.”


instead of this:

Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby the behavior of matter powers a coexisting trinity of systematically self-similar (in each other's image, likeness) intelligent systems at the molecular, cellular and multicellular level as follows:

(1) Molecular Level Intelligence: Behavior of matter causes self-assembly of molecular systems that in time become molecular level intelligence, where biological RNA and DNA memory systems learn over time by replication of their accumulated genetic knowledge through a lineage of successive offspring. This intelligence level controls basic growth and division of our cells, is a primary source of our instinctual behaviors, and causes molecular level social differentiation (i.e. speciation).

(2) Cellular Level Intelligence: Molecular level intelligence is the intelligent cause of cellular level intelligence. This intelligence level controls moment to moment cellular responses such as locomotion/migration and cellular level social differentiation (i.e. neural plasticity). At our conception we were only at the cellular intelligence level. Two molecular intelligence systems (egg and sperm) which are on their own unable to self-replicate combined into a single self-replicating cell, called a zygote. The zygote then divided to become a colony of cells called an embryo. Later during fetal development we became a functional multicellular intelligence with self-learning brain to control motor muscle movements (also sweat gland motor muscles).

(3) Multicellular Level Intelligence: Cellular level intelligence is the intelligent cause of multicellular level intelligence. In this case a multicellular body is controlled by an intelligent neural brain expressing all three intelligence levels at once, resulting in our complex and powerful paternal (fatherly), maternal (motherly) and other behaviors. This intelligence level controls our moment to moment multicellular responses, locomotion/migration and multicellular level social differentiation (i.e. occupation). Successful designs remain in the biosphere’s interconnected collective (RNA/DNA) memory to help keep going the billions year old cycle of life where in our case not all individuals must reproduce for the human lineage to benefit from all in society.

Reciprocal cause/causation goes in both the forward and reverse direction. These behavioral pathways cause all of our complex intelligence related behaviors to connect back to the behavior of matter, which does not necessarily need to be intelligent to be the fundamental source of consciousness.

A behavior from any system qualifies as intelligent behavior by meeting all four circuit requirements for this ability, which are: [1] something to control (body or modeling platform) with motor muscles (proteins, electric speaker, electronic write to a screen), [2] Random Access Memory (RAM) addressed by sensory sensors where each motor action and its associated confidence value are separate data elements, [3] confidence (central hedonic, homeostasis) system that increments (stored in memory) confidence value of a successful motor action else decrements the confidence value, [4] guess mechanism for a new memory action when associated confidence level sufficiently decreases. For flagella powered cells a random guess response (to a new heading) is designed into the motor system by the action of reversing motor direction causing it to “tumble”.

At all biological intelligence levels whatever sensory the system has to work with addresses a memory that works like a random access memory chip used in a computer. It is possible to put the contents of a RAM into a Read Only Memory (ROM) but using a ROM instead of RAM takes away the system's ability to self-learn, it cannot form new memories that are needed to adapt to new environments. The result is more of a zombie that may at first appear to be a fully functional intelligence but they are missing something necessary, a RAM in the circuit, not a ROM. Behavior of matter does not need to be intelligent, a fully trained (all knowing) ROM could be used to produce atomic/molecular behavior. But a ROM would not work where intelligent behavior is needed. Unless the ROM contains all-knowing knowledge of the future and all the humans it will ever meet in its lifetime it can never recall memories of meeting them, or their name and what they look like.

For machine intelligence the IBM Watson system that won at Jeopardy qualifies as intelligent. Word combinations for hypotheses were guessed then tested against memory for confidence in each being a hypothesis that is true and whether confident enough in its best answer to push a button/buzzer. The Watson platform had a speaker (for vocal muscles) and muscles guiding a pen was simulated by an electric powered writing device.

For computer modeling purposes the behavior of matter can be thought of as being “all-knowing” in the sense that the behavior is inherent, does not have to learn its responses. A computer model then starts off with this behavior already in memory and has no GUESS or CONFIDENCE included in the algorithm, as does intelligence. Memory contents then never changes. Only a GUESS can write new data to memory and GUESS must here be taken out of the algorithm. But it is possible to leave the CONFIDENCE in the algorithm, it will still work the exact same way. Where this in time proves to be true for real matter it would be a valuable clue as to how consciousness works and possibly how to model it, which may in turn help answer the “big questions” including those pertaining to afterlife.


for you to be able to in detail explain how intelligence works and how to keep intelligence related terminology in proper scientific context?

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,11:45   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,11:00)
     
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,09:44)
That, incidentally, is an out and out lie, so try and back that up too, while you are at it.    I have never said anything remotely like that, so if you can't back it up, it's a libel for which I demand a retraction and an apology.

You trashed my computer models and theory by pretending to be a "ground-truthing" expert who needs generalizations like this:

       
Quote
“Intelligent behavior is a composite ability to predict one’s environment coupled with a translation of each prediction into a suitable response in light of some objective.”


instead of this:

       
Quote
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, whereby the behavior of matter powers a coexisting trinity of systematically self-similar (in each other's image, likeness) intelligent systems at the molecular, cellular and multicellular level as follows:

(1) Molecular Level Intelligence: Behavior of matter causes self-assembly of molecular systems that in time become molecular level intelligence, where biological RNA and DNA memory systems learn over time by replication of their accumulated genetic knowledge through a lineage of successive offspring. This intelligence level controls basic growth and division of our cells, is a primary source of our instinctual behaviors, and causes molecular level social differentiation (i.e. speciation).

(2) Cellular Level Intelligence: Molecular level intelligence is the intelligent cause of cellular level intelligence. This intelligence level controls moment to moment cellular responses such as locomotion/migration and cellular level social differentiation (i.e. neural plasticity). At our conception we were only at the cellular intelligence level. Two molecular intelligence systems (egg and sperm) which are on their own unable to self-replicate combined into a single self-replicating cell, called a zygote. The zygote then divided to become a colony of cells called an embryo. Later during fetal development we became a functional multicellular intelligence with self-learning brain to control motor muscle movements (also sweat gland motor muscles).

(3) Multicellular Level Intelligence: Cellular level intelligence is the intelligent cause of multicellular level intelligence. In this case a multicellular body is controlled by an intelligent neural brain expressing all three intelligence levels at once, resulting in our complex and powerful paternal (fatherly), maternal (motherly) and other behaviors. This intelligence level controls our moment to moment multicellular responses, locomotion/migration and multicellular level social differentiation (i.e. occupation). Successful designs remain in the biosphere’s interconnected collective (RNA/DNA) memory to help keep going the billions year old cycle of life where in our case not all individuals must reproduce for the human lineage to benefit from all in society.

Reciprocal cause/causation goes in both the forward and reverse direction. These behavioral pathways cause all of our complex intelligence related behaviors to connect back to the behavior of matter, which does not necessarily need to be intelligent to be the fundamental source of consciousness.

A behavior from any system qualifies as intelligent behavior by meeting all four circuit requirements for this ability, which are: [1] something to control (body or modeling platform) with motor muscles (proteins, electric speaker, electronic write to a screen), [2] Random Access Memory (RAM) addressed by sensory sensors where each motor action and its associated confidence value are separate data elements, [3] confidence (central hedonic, homeostasis) system that increments (stored in memory) confidence value of a successful motor action else decrements the confidence value, [4] guess mechanism for a new memory action when associated confidence level sufficiently decreases. For flagella powered cells a random guess response (to a new heading) is designed into the motor system by the action of reversing motor direction causing it to “tumble”.

At all biological intelligence levels whatever sensory the system has to work with addresses a memory that works like a random access memory chip used in a computer. It is possible to put the contents of a RAM into a Read Only Memory (ROM) but using a ROM instead of RAM takes away the system's ability to self-learn, it cannot form new memories that are needed to adapt to new environments. The result is more of a zombie that may at first appear to be a fully functional intelligence but they are missing something necessary, a RAM in the circuit, not a ROM. Behavior of matter does not need to be intelligent, a fully trained (all knowing) ROM could be used to produce atomic/molecular behavior. But a ROM would not work where intelligent behavior is needed. Unless the ROM contains all-knowing knowledge of the future and all the humans it will ever meet in its lifetime it can never recall memories of meeting them, or their name and what they look like.

For machine intelligence the IBM Watson system that won at Jeopardy qualifies as intelligent. Word combinations for hypotheses were guessed then tested against memory for confidence in each being a hypothesis that is true and whether confident enough in its best answer to push a button/buzzer. The Watson platform had a speaker (for vocal muscles) and muscles guiding a pen was simulated by an electric powered writing device.

For computer modeling purposes the behavior of matter can be thought of as being “all-knowing” in the sense that the behavior is inherent, does not have to learn its responses. A computer model then starts off with this behavior already in memory and has no GUESS or CONFIDENCE included in the algorithm, as does intelligence. Memory contents then never changes. Only a GUESS can write new data to memory and GUESS must here be taken out of the algorithm. But it is possible to leave the CONFIDENCE in the algorithm, it will still work the exact same way. Where this in time proves to be true for real matter it would be a valuable clue as to how consciousness works and possibly how to model it, which may in turn help answer the “big questions” including those pertaining to afterlife.


for you to be able to in detail explain how intelligence works and how to keep intelligence related terminology in proper scientific context?

That does not amount to trying to steal credit for Avida.  So you lied and are not apologizing for it.

I am not "pretending" to be an expert on ground-truthing, as I do it from time to time in such areas as LiDAR, GPS data, other satellite data of various sorts, aerial photography, mapping,  and geological computer models.  However, I am not claiming to have worked on Avida or to have worked in related areas.

You trashed your computer model: I've merely been pointing out how you trashed your model.  Regardless, however, that has nothing to do with your previous assertions.

Fogel et al.'s definition could stand improvement, but it is nonetheless vastly superior to yours.  First, it can be understood.  Second, it doesn't contradict itself. Third, it isn't vague.  Fourth, it isn't reeking bullshit.  Fifth, it is well-written. Sixth, it doesn't abuse standard definitions and usages of words.  Seventh and most important, it includes behavior standardly accepted as epitomizing intelligence while excluding non-intelligent behavior. For example, someone who dreams up a melody or re-evaluates their life is synthesizing multiple abilities in order to correctly predict system responses and likely outcomes that will suitably translate to a desired result.  On the other hand your incompetent, vague, incoherent, not-a-theory load of word salad contains contradictions and unsupported (and probably unsupportable) assertions, and includes Neato vacuum cleaners as being intelligent, while excluding Beethoven imagining a melody.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,11:57   

Then N.Wells needs something easily ground-truthable, that only requires a dictionary to test. In such a case this operational definition is as good as it gets:

Quote
"Intelligent behavior is smart. Unintelligent behavior is stupid"


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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,12:03   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,11:57)
Then N.Wells needs something easily ground-truthable, that only requires a dictionary to test. In such a case this operational definition is as good as it gets:

 
Quote
"Intelligent behavior is smart. Unintelligent behavior is stupid"

No, that's ultimately self-referential and does not constitute an operational definition.  You still need an operational definition, and if that's your idea of one then you don't know what that is.

I require that you demonstrate that your Pile of Babble has a solid connection to reality.  You won't (and apparently can't) do that.

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,12:25   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,11:00)
You trashed my computer models and theory by pretending to be a "ground-truthing" expert who needs generalizations like this...

Nowhere has NWells pretended to  be a ground-truthing expert. Another lie on your part.  Simply understanding and articulating basic principles isn't a claim of expertise.  If I say "The sky is very cloudy today" it doesn't mean that I'm claiming to be an expert in meteorology.

In view of your representation of them, your computer models and theory are trash.  You have never been able to demonstrate otherwise.  You've claimed to have been "in this area of science for a long time" but you have absolutely no evidence of support from any credentialed cognitive scientist, and even your fellow cranks want nothing to do with your drivel.

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Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,12:39   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,12:03)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,11:57)
Then N.Wells needs something easily ground-truthable, that only requires a dictionary to test. In such a case this operational definition is as good as it gets:

 
Quote
"Intelligent behavior is smart. Unintelligent behavior is stupid"

No, that's ultimately self-referential and does not constitute an operational definition.  You still need an operational definition, and if that's your idea of one then you don't know what that is.

I require that you demonstrate that your Pile of Babble has a solid connection to reality.  You won't (and apparently can't) do that.

I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,12:46   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,12:39)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,12:03)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,11:57)
Then N.Wells needs something easily ground-truthable, that only requires a dictionary to test. In such a case this operational definition is as good as it gets:

   
Quote
"Intelligent behavior is smart. Unintelligent behavior is stupid"

No, that's ultimately self-referential and does not constitute an operational definition.  You still need an operational definition, and if that's your idea of one then you don't know what that is.

I require that you demonstrate that your Pile of Babble has a solid connection to reality.  You won't (and apparently can't) do that.

I need to focus on getting the new model ready for imaginary scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

FTFY

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,13:27   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,13:39)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,12:03)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,11:57)
Then N.Wells needs something easily ground-truthable, that only requires a dictionary to test. In such a case this operational definition is as good as it gets:

   
Quote
"Intelligent behavior is smart. Unintelligent behavior is stupid"

No, that's ultimately self-referential and does not constitute an operational definition.  You still need an operational definition, and if that's your idea of one then you don't know what that is.

I require that you demonstrate that your Pile of Babble has a solid connection to reality.  You won't (and apparently can't) do that.

I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

No, really you don't.

Gary, you are confronted by the brutality of the facts:  there is not a single researcher focused on 'intelligence' anywhere in the universe who is even remotely interested in your software or your "theory".
Largely, of course, this is due to the fact that neither your "theory" nor your antiquated software has anything at all to do with any standard meaning of 'intelligence'.

What you really need to do is figure out what you're talking about.
Be specific, particularly given your violent rejection of 'generalizations'.  That rejection, mind you, is wildly funny given  that your vaunted premise consists of an absurd over-generalization.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,14:03   

Well, it's clear that you are suffering from a misplaced "actually".  Before you worry about making your stuff ready for scientists and experimenters who "actually study how intelligence works", you first need to ensure that your model is of value to people who study 'how intelligence actually works'.

i.e., do some ground-truthing!

Quote
I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

So, in short, no engagement with criticisms, no rebuttals, no backing up of assertions, no specifics, just assert, insult, flounce, & out.  It's the Gaulin two-faced two-step.

  
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,14:34   

It's the only dance he knows.
Oddly enough, on the basis of his "theory", this means it is either getting him the results he wants or he is unable to 'guess' a different behavior.
Or he lacks 'intelligence', whatever that should turn out to be.

Side note:  pretty curious/amusing that he thinks the opposite of 'intelligence' is 'stupidity'.  We can use that to once more derive the conclusion that Gary is not 'intelligent' because he certainly is stupid.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,18:14   

Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,14:03)
Well, it's clear that you are suffering from a misplaced "actually".  Before you worry about making your stuff ready for scientists and experimenters who "actually study how intelligence works", you first need to ensure that your model is of value to people who study 'how intelligence actually works'.

i.e., do some ground-truthing!

 
Quote
I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

So, in short, no engagement with criticisms, no rebuttals, no backing up of assertions, no specifics, just assert, insult, flounce, & out.  It's the Gaulin two-faced two-step.

They demand and demand and demand until you're broke then dead from trying to meet never ending demands.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,18:35   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,19:14)
 
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,14:03)
Well, it's clear that you are suffering from a misplaced "actually".  Before you worry about making your stuff ready for scientists and experimenters who "actually study how intelligence works", you first need to ensure that your model is of value to people who study 'how intelligence actually works'.

i.e., do some ground-truthing!

   
Quote
I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

So, in short, no engagement with criticisms, no rebuttals, no backing up of assertions, no specifics, just assert, insult, flounce, & out.  It's the Gaulin two-faced two-step.

They demand and demand and demand until you're broke then dead from trying to meet never ending demands.

Oh, yes, it's just brutally unfair that you, alone amongst the horde, are expected to pay your bills.  And the sheer outrageous effrontery of expecting you to actually do science before giving you any credit for your scientific efforts.
How do you survive?

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,19:35   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ May 31 2015,18:14)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,14:03)
Well, it's clear that you are suffering from a misplaced "actually".  Before you worry about making your stuff ready for scientists and experimenters who "actually study how intelligence works", you first need to ensure that your model is of value to people who study 'how intelligence actually works'.

i.e., do some ground-truthing!

 
Quote
I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

So, in short, no engagement with criticisms, no rebuttals, no backing up of assertions, no specifics, just assert, insult, flounce, & out.  It's the Gaulin two-faced two-step.

They demand and demand and demand until you're broke then dead from trying to meet never ending demands.

Of course, you could just try answering questions honestly.  It might get you a bit of respect.  Instead you choose lies, deflection, whining, and abuse.  Which gets you nothing but contempt.

Why even post anything at all if you won't actually discuss it?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 31 2015,21:31   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ June 01 2015,02:14)
Quote (N.Wells @ May 31 2015,14:03)
Well, it's clear that you are suffering from a misplaced "actually".  Before you worry about making your stuff ready for scientists and experimenters who "actually study how intelligence works", you first need to ensure that your model is of value to people who study 'how intelligence actually works'.

i.e., do some ground-truthing!

 
Quote
I need to focus on getting the new model ready for scientists/experimenters who actually study how intelligence works.

So, in short, no engagement with criticisms, no rebuttals, no backing up of assertions, no specifics, just assert, insult, flounce, & out.  It's the Gaulin two-faced two-step.

They demand and demand and demand until you're broke then dead from trying to meet never ending demands.

Gary you are broke because you are a time wasting, uneducated, incompetent who cant turn an instruction into useful work and are therefor unemployable. You have no one to blame but yourself. How many more years of suffering are you going to impose on yourself  Gary?

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
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