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  Topic: GoP's LAMSM Theory, Liberal Agenda of the Mainstream Media?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,10:33   

Mr the Ghost of Paley,

Could this be connected with cannibalism? This would lead to gut to gamete transfer of genetic information, would it not?

Cards on the table. Do I have do go to my grave still wondering about your guts to gametes paper, or can I relax and enjoy my twilight years? Cut the equivocation and be honest with me and yourself. Admit you are going nowhere with this idea and move on. No one will think the less of you; quite the contrary.

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,10:53   

I just thought that because upwards of 70% of journalists (in America) self-identified as "liberal" when only around 40% of the general population does the same was enough evidence for a "liberal" media bias.

This makes those "liberals" that claim a conservative media bias look even more ridiculous.

I will admit though, that as far the new media is concerned, conservatives are making incredible inroads and I'm sure this scares "liberals" in some regard.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,11:42   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ April 28 2006,15:24)
Look, DC is a majority-black district. Given that blacks are overrepresented among serial killers, not underrepresented as the media would have it, the police were irrational to assume a white killer. Gotta run.

Wait a minute. The article says 15% of serial killers are black. But D.C. is majority (i.e., > 50%) black, how does that make blacks over-represented among serial killers?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,11:54   

Quote (thordaddy @ April 28 2006,15:53)
This makes those "liberals" that claim a conservative media bias look even more ridiculous.

Let's see: which newspaper broke Whitewater?

(The New York Times)

Which newspaper reporter was Ken Starr leaking to?

(Susan Schmidt of the Washington Post)

Chalabi was leaking information to which journalist?

(Judith Miller of the New York Times)

Charles Krauthammer, David Brooks, George Will, William Safire (all columnists for the New York Times or the Washington Post) are liberal or conservative?

How many liberal columnists, cumulatively, are there for National Review, The Weekly Standard, and the Wall Street Journal editorial page?

(zero)

How many times has Ann Coulter been on Hardball with Christ Matthews?

(eight times)

How many times has Michael Moore been on Hardball with Chris Matthews?

(zero times)

Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, and Michael Savage are the number one, two, and three most popular radio talk show hosts. How many of these gentlemen can be described as "liberal"?

Still think there's a liberal bias in the media, Thordaddy?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,12:01   

ericmurphy,

No... I think that 70+% of those self-identified "liberal" journalists are really objective just like all you "scientists."  LOL!

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,12:07   

Quote
Do I have do go to my grave still wondering about your guts to gametes paper, or can I relax and enjoy my twilight years?
Is that one of these things like Scale-Free Networks, or that outline, checks Paley's mouth wrote but his brain can't deliver?

   
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,13:00   

Quote (thordaddy @ April 28 2006,17<!--emo&:0)
ericmurphy,

No... I think that 70+% of those self-identified "liberal" journalists are really objective just like all you "scientists."  LOL!

What about all those self-described conservative opinion columnists? Are they "objective" too? Because I guarantee you that Bill O'Reilly has more influence over public opinion than any 200 AP stringers, no matter how "liberal" they claim to be.

The evidence of conservative bias in the media is mountainous, and it doesn't matter how many journalists describe themselves as "liberal."

Are News Corporation, General Electric, or Disney "liberal" corporations? Because they're huge media players, and control at least 70% of the news Americans get.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
thordaddy



Posts: 486
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,13:34   

eric,

Didn't you make the claim that if the vast majority of Fortune 500 CEOs were white then that is evidence of racism?

Why doesn't the same thing apply to the media?

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 28 2006,13:49   

Quote (thordaddy @ April 28 2006,18:34)
eric,

Didn't you make the claim that if the vast majority of Fortune 500 CEOs were white then that is evidence of racism?

Why doesn't the same thing apply to the media?

Nope.

Just because someone claims to be liberal does not mean he or she is biased. Do you think that someone can be conservative and unbiased? Or should only people who have absolutely no opinion on cultural or political issues be allowed to be journalists?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,09:01   

Faid:
Quote
If not, then how does simply pointing to all those various examples (and deserving of different coverage, respectively) help you make your point? If you want to demonstrate a bias in the media, showing any number of supposedly neglected incidents is not enough- shouldn't you compare incidents of equal severity? Shouldn't you, for example, prove that a white kid hitting a black one with a newspaper would get more publicity than a black kid doing the same to a white one?


Eric:
Quote
Do you have a Lexis-Nexis account? Because if not, you're not going to convince anyone of the amount of reporting on the issue just by doing Google Searches, because Google searches by their very nature aren't an accurate presentation of how many stories are actually out there.


Ok guys, here's an example of exactly what you asked for; but now that you have it, why do I suspect you won't really like it?
Quote
Analysis of press coverage of alleged police brutality cases strongly argues that the media’s portrayal of police brutality focuses on racism as a central issue rather than simply reporting on the abuse of law enforcement. A comparison on the coverage of five recent cases: Patrick Dorismond, Amadou Diallo, Timothy Thomas, Thomas Jones, and Gideon Busch clearly reveals the role that race plays in the media’s selection of cases portrayed in the United States. Each one of the five individuals stated above was a victim of police overstepping and abusing their authority and each case has been referred to as an example of police brutality. While the cases share a common thread, their differences might be more important to note. Dorismond, Diallo, and Thomas were Black men brutalized by White police officers, Busch was White and was shot by White officers, and Jones is Black and was abused by a group of mostly Black officers. The media tends to focus on racism as the sole reason for the abuse of Diallo, Dorismond, and Thomas.
[.....]
Media coverage of the following case defied logic. Recently in Philadelphia, Thomas Jones, a black male was severely beaten by police. A television helicopter caught the scene on tape.   Police fired fifty shots at him, grabbed him out of his car and beat him. The beating was all too familiar and reminiscent of the King incident. The Washington Post expressed a sense of deja vu on July 14, 2000 stating , “what was shown on tape…was enough to bring to some minds the 1991 beating by Los Angeles Police of Rodney King, an incident that has become a rallying point against police brutality.”   If the media’s responses to Rodney King’s beating were unprecedented, and the sensationalized video became a rallying point against police brutality, attention drawn to the recently taped Jones beating would be insurmountable. Analysis of his coverage, however, tells a different story. His did not follow the same path in major newspapers that King’s had. During the first six months after each respective episode, newspapers wrote over 1000 articles on Rodney King and only 161 on Thomas Jones. In order to get a clearer understanding of the issue, a Lexis Nexis search for articles containing each victim’s name and police brutality showed the same disparity. The first six months revealed only seventy-six articles on Jones and 368 documents on King.

   As both cases had almost identical circumstances, including the race of the victims, what could the difference be between these cases?   The difference lies in the race of the police officers.   White officers beat Rodney King, while those who beat and shot Thomas Jones were both black and white.
[....]
 Using the Lexis-Nexis system, the number of articles written in mainstream newspapers was revealed for each victim. Because the amount of coverage for Diallo was staggering, including thousands of newspaper articles, a comparison of articles is best observed using only the first month’s coverage. Newspapers reported on Amadou in 988 articles in the northeast, fifty-nine in the Midwest, fifty-seven, in the southeast, and forty-three in the west. One year later, Patrick Dorismond was shot by the NYPD in a controversial drug bust. He was covered in 516 articles in the northeast, twelve in the Midwest, fifty-three in the southeast, and twenty-two in the west. Last month, Timothy Thomas was shot to death in Cincinnati as he was fleeing from police. He was covered in ninety articles in the Midwest, twenty-two in the northeast, fifty in the southeast, and seven in the west. The sheer number of newspaper articles demonstrates how the media brought each victim’s ordeal into the forefront of the nation’s consciousness.
[....]
 Notably, some victims such as Gideon Busch, do not receive as much consideration. He was a mentally ill Jewish man who held a hammer and was shot to death by police on August 31, 1999. The shooting occurred just five months after the highly publicized Amadou Diallo incident. Given the media’s obsession with police brutality coverage, one could assume that Gideon Busch’s story would sweep the nation. Because police had crossed the line and shot an American, his story would probably have struck fear in the hearts of many more Americans than had Amadou. That is not to justify senseless violence motivated by xenophobia and hatred, rather it is an example to show that Busch, a native born citizen rather than immigrant, might have logically made the story of wider interest. The threat of police brutality might have become more tangible to the broad swath of the population. Gideon Busch could have created a national epiphany on the subject of police violence.

   If Gideon Busch’s story had followed the trajectory of Amadou Diallo, it would have been a national outrage, with coverage matching or exceeding the more than 1000 stories on the Diallo case. Revealingly, Gideon Busch’s coverage paled in comparison to Diallo. The mainstream media ignored Busch. In the northeast, forty-six articles were written, two in the southeast, zero in the west, and zero in the midwest. The first month’s forty-eight national articles were less than what Amadou had received in the southeast alone. And a majority of the articles came from local newspapers such as The Daily News and The New York Post.

   The United States was not alone in minimally covering Busch. Worldwide he received minor attention in the first month after his death. Canada and South America didn’t write any articles on him. They wrote forty-seven for Diallo, thirty for Dorismond, and twenty-one for Thomas. Busch inspired only two articles in Europe. Lexis-Nexis revealed the grand total for the first month of each victim’s international coverage, including Europe, Asia/Pacific regions, Africa and the Mideast, and North/South America. Amadou had 109 articles, Dorismond sixty-nine, Thomas 101, compared to Busch’s paltry four. Patrick Dorismond, shot a year after Busch, received more media attention abroad than Busch received in the United States and the world combined.

      Busch’s less than stellar attention abroad might be attributed to the fact that he was armed. But such an explanation for the media’s silence presumes that the Busch story was understood as a legitimate police response to an armed assailant, rather than an episode of police brutality. When in fact, many of the Busch news accounts that covered the episode alluded to Busch’s death being an example of police violence.

   While mainstream media ignored Busch, it would be easy to assume that he’d receive more attention in ethnic and religious newspapers. Suprisingly, Busch, a Hasidic Jew received less publicity in Jewish newspapers than did Diallo. The Jewish Week wrote six articles on Busch – nine on Diallo. Forward, another Jewish newspaper wrote seven articles on Busch and fourteen on Diallo. The Jewish Advocate wrote one article on Diallo but did not advocate for Gideon. New Jersey Jewish News published six articles on Diallo- zero on Busch. Was that because he was not from Jersey? It is unlikely, as Diallo was not either. Other papers from the New York region are guilty of the same offense. El Diario/La Prensa, the largest circulation Spanish newspaper in the area, wrote sixty-five articles on Diallo and a measly five on Busch. The disproportion is evident in other ethnic papers as well such as Filipino Reporter, The Italian Voice, and Irish Voice, all of which published between one and five articles each on Diallo but did not follow suit for Busch. Perhaps both mainstream and ethnic newspapers find matters that don’t sensationalize racism as arbitrary or unnewsworthy. Media gives more publicity and attention to police brutality cases that can be attributed to racism. Cases such as Busch’s are essentially ignored.
[....]
The media’s compulsive chase after white on black police violence reveals the beginning of what can arguably be a racial panic. The media’s creation of a racial panic is best shown through a former moral panic created by the media in regards to drugs. Philip Jenkins’ research published in Justice Quarterly reprinted in The American Drug Scene, shows the influence that the media has in creating a drug epidemic. He warns that a moral panic regarding a particular drug actually advertises it to many Americans. In other words, the media has the capacity to create a problem that may not be as problematic as the coverage maintains it to be. For example, Jenkins suggests that in the 1980s, “Newspapers assigned journalists to cover such stories as their sole responsibility, …the papers had a vested interest in the constant generation of newsworthy items in the area.”  Journalists worked solely to cover drug stories. They pursued and covered the so-called drug epidemic. Newspapers were purposely over extending their coverage on particular drugs, sensationalizing an epidemic, which resulted in a moral panic and increased drug use.   Could the media be exploiting America’s struggle with racism in order to create a crisis that generates news?    Jenkins’ research demonstrated another interesting media trend, the disappearance of a crisis. The media had created a methamphetamine, or ice, national crisis. Unfortunately for the media, “the ice danger did not materialize as a national crisis, and the prospective ‘plague’ faded rapidly in early 1990”.  If a real epidemic does not result from the coverage, the issue is quickly dropped. The media then moves on to another topic that it can manipulate.
[....]
And like the impact that the media’s moral panic had on increasing drug use, the media’s racial panic may have had an impact on racial tension. So much so that people’s reactions to media coverage could have resulted in violent behavior. Busch and Thomas protests best exemplifies how the media may have influenced people. After Gideon Busch’s death, a small group of Hasidic Jews held a demonstration in his neighborhood. The Daily News criticized protestors for their voiced discontent with the police. Robert Gearty and Dave Goldiner, wrote, “The Busch shooting sparked angry street protestors in Borough Park, a heavily Orthodox Jewish neighborhood. But only a few Hasidic Jews were present at yesterday’s services” . The protestors were questioned as to what their motive was for reacting. Their credibility was challenged because they didn’t go to Busch’s funeral. Their ideals and anger toward excessive force was not considered.

   Unlike the demonstrations in Borough Park, Cincinnati was subjected to violent riots. It is possible that the exaggerated coverage of Diallo and Dorismond had an impact on public behavior when Timothy Thomas was shot last month. The press couldn’t criticize small protests; instead it could only antagonize riots. On the subject, The Chicago Times wrote, “ A white police officer pleaded not guilty Wed. to misdemeanor charges in the fatal shooting of an unarmed black man that prompted three nights of riots in Cincinnati in April”.  The riot was three nights long. The rioters’ motives were not questioned. They were not criticized for their anger nor were they chastised for not attending Mr. Thomas’ funeral.

   It is possible that the media has a “vested interest” in covering brutality that could be manipulated into a racially motivated crime. These sensational stories can manipulate the audience and may create increased racial tension throughout the country.
[....]
No less unjust, however, is the media’s extensive coverage of certain instances of brutality and not others. The media must remain true to what they are reporting about. In instances of police brutality, skewing the topics at hand serves less to objectively inform the public and more to perpetuate racism. We as a society should focus on relieving the social and racial stereotypes that minorities have to live with. This includes the racial sensationalism brought forth by the media. By not addressing the real issue, police brutality, and revealing it only in terms of racial beatings, police are able to continue to abuse their power. Police brutality remains brutal regardless of the shade of skin color the victim or the perpetrator has. The injustice lingers. Police abusing their power should always be brought to light, therefore biased accounts of the incidents should not be the media’s focus. Newspapers should not write emphasizing only those subjects they feel would bring them more profit. Profit should not be gained as a result of bloodshed.


This is backed up by a search of newspaper archives. If you check the Washington Post, for example, you'll see that they extensively covered the Diallo shooting before the major marches and candlelight vigils.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,09:07   

Given the number of times Ghost of Paley has promised an argument, failed to deliver, and simply moved on to a new argument, and given that he accuses us of doing exactly that, which he referred to as a Shell Game, I suggest his new nickname be Ghost in the Shell.

   
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,09:20   

Eric:
Quote
Wait a minute. The article says 15% of serial killers are black. But D.C. is majority (i.e., > 50%) black, how does that make blacks over-represented among serial killers?

No, the 15% estimate (you chose the lower estimate, I notice) is for the entire country, not the district. Since Blacks are only 13% of the American population, this means that blacks are overrepresented. So if American blacks are at least as likely as whites to commit serial murders, and the region is majority black, you'd expect the killer to be black. [edit: and I see no evidence that black serial murderers are more likely to stick within one race than white killers are.]

stevestory:
Quote
Given the number of times Ghost of Paley has promised an argument, failed to deliver, and simply moved on to a new argument, and given that he accuses us of doing exactly that, which he referred to as a Shell Game, I suggest his new nickname be Ghost in the Shell.

Ummmm....Steve, I just gave Eric and Faid the bit of evidence that they asked for. I see this bothers you, hence the attempt at misdirection.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,09:26   

Point me to the post where you explain how heterosexual marriages are hubs on a scale-free network, and why gay marriage would alter the links in a disastrous way. You said it was compelling, I just want to see it.

   
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,09:36   

Quote
Point me to the post where you explain how heterosexual marriages are hubs on a scale-free network, and why gay marriage would alter the links in a disastrous way. You said it was compelling, I just want to see it.

If you don't like it, why not complain about it in the appropriate thread? Flint did. But we all know what this is about - you're trying to misdirect the audience because you see that my latest citation is all too relevant to the issue on this thread. Remember, I used to be a member of your Kool-Aid cult, and I know all of your tricks. Your stained undies are being aired for the whole internet community to see, you can't shut me up, and that drives you nuts, doesn't it? But just wait until the big guns come out.....

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,10:06   

Ghost - you seem to be trying to prove points that are not in contention.  I, for one, believe that the Diallo, Rodney King, etc. stories ARE more about racism than the propriety of police conduct in these particular cases. I also, for one, believe that cases of majority-on-minority racism have a lower threshold for causing that media-public positive feedback loop known as a "news sensation" than do cases of minority-on-majority racism. I also want to be clear - and I think I've said this already - that I don't believe the contemporary press is doing a very admirable job at telling it like it is. It would not surprise me if they were less aggressive than they should have been in a case like the Charles Baum incident out of fear of public reaction.*
* (That being said, apparently, I believe that story was carried on the national news. How else did your source, Tremoglie, become aware of it? The fact that it didn't become a "sensation", again, I suspect has at least as much to do with the lack of the public part of the media-public feedback loop as any failing of the press).

But the failure of the press to hold the administration responsible for knowingly using false pretenses to drag us into a war costing tens of thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars - a caving-in to the right, not the left - strikes me as much more reprehensible.

In other words, if your point is that the press is not only not perfect, it's not even living up to minimum standards of competence, then I agree; end of dispute (at least as far as I'm concerned). But what you haven't provided any evidence for is any "liberal agenda".

If you were serious about backing up your theory, you would address Eric Murphy's comment (Posted on April 28 2006,16:54). And if you were seriously interested in the ideal of objective reporting (and I use the word "ideal" advisedly, since it can only be aimed for, never achieved) you would not be relying on such thoroughly discredited sources as David Horowitz and WorldNutDaily.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,11:13   

Thanks, Ghost- after furiously googling and quoting (and... singing?  ??? ) you finally found something remotely relevant. A student essay from a criminal justice college, but still.
Now, I can't tell how these students fared in the subsequent debate -I'm interested in how they supported this point:
Quote
As both cases had almost identical circumstances, including the race of the victims, what could the difference be between these cases?   The difference lies in the race of the police officers.   White officers beat Rodney King, while those who beat and shot Thomas Jones were both black and white.

Concidering the fact that a wave of civil unrest and riots, leading to 50+ deaths and 8000+ arrests, should make the two cases seem a little different, media-wise.
<edit: and the same goes for comparing the cases of Diallo and Busch as identical- check out the stories>

But I can assume they did alright. Now, what was demonstrated? that the media's eye gets a glint whenever racism rears its ugly head. Of course, racism sells: Living in Greece, I know that firsthand. How does that demonstrate a liberal bias, That's for you to explain.

[Tell you what: Go back to your Google search, only this time, instead of looking how many of the media stood out by referring to all the less-covered police brutality incidents, check out what kind of media (newspapers, magazines, sites) they were (and I mean actually report the incidents, not use them in retrospect to argue for biased media).
...See? Now that's liberal.]

But don't take my word for it- read the students' conclusion in the quote you yourself posted:
Quote
No less unjust, however, is the media’s extensive coverage of certain instances of brutality and not others. The media must remain true to what they are reporting about. In instances of police brutality, skewing the topics at hand serves less to objectively inform the public and more to perpetuate racism. We as a society should focus on relieving the social and racial stereotypes that minorities have to live with. This includes the racial sensationalism brought forth by the media. By not addressing the real issue, police brutality, and revealing it only in terms of racial beatings, police are able to continue to abuse their power. Police brutality remains brutal regardless of the shade of skin color the victim or the perpetrator has. The injustice lingers. Police abusing their power should always be brought to light, therefore biased accounts of the incidents should not be the media’s focus. Newspapers should not write emphasizing only those subjects they feel would bring them more profit. Profit should not be gained as a result of bloodshed.


So, what the kids say is that the media corporations should not exploit racial issues and knee-jerk reactions to racism for numbers and profit. Yep, they sure showed them liberals!

Ghost, I think your tune should be:

Slip slidin' away
Slip slidin' away
The nearer the destination
The more you're slip slidin' away





PS. One more thing, about the WP paragraph: Please, please don't post bogeys (irrelevant links). It's bad netiquette of the worst form. Besides, this is a forum for thinking people: Everyone will hit them.

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A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,11:15   

Quote
If you don't like it, why not complain about it in the appropriate thread? Flint did. But we all know what this is about - you're trying to misdirect the audience because you see that my latest citation is all too relevant to the issue on this thread.
Actually I don't know what's even being discussed on this thread. I've read maybe a dozen comments here. I gather it's something about the liberal media. Yeah, the media leans liberal. I don't care. I'm here because I followed you here, Ghost in the Shell.

Got that model yet? I've heard it's compelling, I want to see it.

Quote
But just wait until the big guns come out.....

Will the big guns be coming out before or after you unveil the Scale Free Marriage Network?

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,12:16   

"But just wait until the big guns come out....."

This would be a variation on the Disdainful False Confidence Display* I pointed out above.

*(Sometimes known as the Cordova Cockstrut)

Reminds me of the standard parting shot of the kid who just got the snot beaten out of him: "Just you wait till my big brother comes after you! Then you're gonna be sorry!"

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,12:34   

Quote
(GoP: ) ... the media lied about the percentage of white serial killers

Quote
(Faid: ) What that it's 85% ? How did it lie, exactly? and where? and how did that affect police work? [quote]
[quote](GoP: ) Look, DC is a majority-black district. Given that blacks are overrepresented among serial killers, not underrepresented as the media would have it, the police were irrational to assume a white killer.

I'll take GhostGuy's gripes about media integrity a little more seriously when he demonstrates that he at least understands the concept.

Here's a specific assertion: "the media lied". Which media? Where? Either admit that that was itself a lie (Oh, OK: call it "hyperbole" if you want to save face. Or, what's Dembski's term? "Street theater"?) or back it up. It's really quite simple.

Quote
Gotta run.
Isn't that the truth!

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,13:44   

Bill, even if your thesis—that the press tends to over-report majority-on-minority violence and under-report minority-on-majority violence…well, what would your point be? I've asked this question before, and evidently you've answered with more evidence to support your premise.

But until you explain exactly why I should be concerned should your premise turn out to be true, I'm not sure I care. The press is guilty of far more serious transgressions, and pretty much everyone, on both the left and right of the political spectrum, acknowledges that the press in the United States is a bad joke.

I still don't really know what you're trying to prove here.

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,15:00   

Stupid of me... I should have noticed at once that Paley snipped off, in mid-paragraph, the actual reasons the authors of the essay propose for this observed bias- and their justification:

Quote
[...]The riots, the violence, and the controversy most likely ensure the newspapers with a continued story to cover. Had the stories dealt with the issue of police brutality, a very serious issue, all of the incidents would have been covered with equal zest. Unfortunately as The Baltimore Sun points out in an editorial on July 30, 2000, “Whether you view them [the police] as the good guys or as a brutal occupation force may depend on where you live and the color of your skin.”   Likewise, whether the media views them [the victims] as good enough to be a story or as an occupational flop may depend on where they lived and the color of their skin.  The media chooses who is significant and who is forgotten based on their race and the sensationalism that their status as a victim can create.

   If the Busch and Jones stories were printed with as much fervor as the ones with racist undertones, the country would probably deal with the problem, ending a juicy bit of news. Because the issue of race is such a sensitive and controversial one, it is possible for the media to exploit it. Such manipulation may increase revenue for the newspapers; increased racial tensions may be the national hidden cost of their attempt to drive up sales. Given the number of articles written on a select few versus the lack of articles on a select racially unmotivated few, the following conclusion is unavoidable. The media creates a racial panic. And the issue of police brutality cannot be adequately voiced with the cacophonous racial noise in the background.

"Liberal" bias. Riiiiight.
 And they go on with an interesting read:  
Quote
Minorities face daily injustices to the extent that many white Americans will never really know or understand. Racial discrimination and oppression is visible in the minority faces of our prison populations due to the majority bias of the criminal justice system. Many Americans assume that the system exists to provide justice when in fact it mainly serves those that can afford to manipulate it via their esteemed status and/or expensive lawyers. Since race serves as a proxy for class, the institution we place so much faith in and assume to be just is actually nothing more than a fallacy. In his book The Rich get Richer…and the Poor get Prison, economist Jeffrey Rieman points out that lower class youths were found more likely to be referred to juvenile court, more likely to be institutionalized, and police were more likely to allow higher status families handle matters themselves without referring them to court . And if charged with a crime people with larger incomes can afford better attorneys and can post bail when needed. Paid attorneys are more likely do a better job than those who receive considerably less. Our criminal justice system assures the right to counsel, but cannot guarantee they will do the best job possible. Race and wealth are obviously two major factors attributing to the bias.

     The police contribute to the bias in ways such as racial profiling. A 1988 Harvard Law Review overview of racial studies related to the criminal justice system concluded that, “most studies...reveal what many police officers freely admit: that police use race as an independently significant, if not determinative, factor in deciding whom to follow, detain, search or arrest.”   Racial profiling gained extensive attention in recent years because it is unjust.
(Paley starts quoting again)

And you thought it would be us who wouldn't like it, right Ghost?

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A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,04:01   

Quote
This is backed up by a search of newspaper archives. If you check the Washington Post, for example, you'll see that they extensively covered the Diallo shooting before the major marches and candlelight vigils.
Was that link supposed to prove that point? If so, it failed.

Look. The point that I made - and this is as close as you've come to recognizing it - is that news "sensations" generally represent a media-public positive feedback loop. This is no exception. Within hours of the incident, Al Sharpton was drawing attention to it. Do you think the public ignored him, and the press, for a month before there was any significant public feedback? That's not the way I remember it.

Do you have anything else to show for your search of newspaper archives, or is that the extent of it? It wouldn't surprise me if it is. That's very much the pattern of creationist "research":  sift through data until you come up with some published factoid that - on its face and without too much probing - seems at odds with the overwhelmingly consistent fabric of observations that support the consensus view, and claim that it's everybody else that is not exercising critical judgment.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,10:42   

Faid wrote:
Quote
Stupid of me(*)... I should have noticed at once that Paley snipped off, in mid-paragraph, the actual reasons the authors of the essay propose for this observed bias- and their justification:
and then proceeded to document how the Ghost Guy, by surgically excising the relevant context, distorted the message of his source beyond recognition.

This is the same Ghost, mind you, who wrote this:
Quote
Notice that our friend snips around the systematic racial bullying(**) ...  But this is nothing new for liberals.

I can't help but wonder whether  Ghost Guy is  intentionally deceitful, whether he's simply "blinded by the right", or whether there really is a meaningful distinction between the two.

*(Faid should not be too hard on himself, though, as tracking down all of Ghosty's apparent lapses in intellectual integrity would consume far more time than it's worth.)

**(I invite anyone who is sufficiently curious, and/or looking for diversion from more productive endeavors, to go back and check whether my "snipping" was to minimize the bullying in question, or for the sake of conciseness - in light of the fact that I included the most egregious instance - the death-threat by the box-cutter wielder.)

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,11:42   

Faid:
Quote
Stupid of me... I should have noticed at once that Paley snipped off, in mid-paragraph, the actual reasons the authors of the essay propose for this observed bias- and their justification:

Russell:
Quote
I can't help but wonder whether  Ghost Guy is  intentionally deceitful, whether he's simply "blinded by the right", or whether there really is a meaningful distinction between the two.

*(Faid should not be too hard on himself, though, as tracking down all of Ghosty's apparent lapses in intellectual integrity would consume far more time than it's worth.)

Oh, man, do I love debating liberals! This is too funny....you guys really think that I would try to distort a source that I linked to? Even if I was the despicable person you suspect, give me credit for some level of intelligence. But in case you were wondering, I neglected to quote that part because I don't care about debating side issues such as legal or financial inequities among the races - I just want the author's data and reasoning on the topic we were like, you know, actually discussing: media bias. Even the part that relates to Faid's hypothesis.....
Quote
[...]The riots, the violence, and the controversy most likely ensure the newspapers with a continued story to cover. Had the stories dealt with the issue of police brutality, a very serious issue, all of the incidents would have been covered with equal zest. Unfortunately as The Baltimore Sun points out in an editorial on July 30, 2000, “Whether you view them [the police] as the good guys or as a brutal occupation force may depend on where you live and the color of your skin.”   Likewise, whether the media views them [the victims] as good enough to be a story or as an occupational flop may depend on where they lived and the color of their skin.  The media chooses who is significant and who is forgotten based on their race and the sensationalism that their status as a victim can create.

  If the Busch and Jones stories were printed with as much fervor as the ones with racist undertones, the country would probably deal with the problem, ending a juicy bit of news. Because the issue of race is such a sensitive and controversial one, it is possible for the media to exploit it. Such manipulation may increase revenue for the newspapers; increased racial tensions may be the national hidden cost of their attempt to drive up sales. Given the number of articles written on a select few versus the lack of articles on a select racially unmotivated few, the following conclusion is unavoidable. The media creates a racial panic. And the issue of police brutality cannot be adequately voiced with the cacophonous racial noise in the background.

....was based on nothing but speculation. Although speaking of which, they do suggest that the media plays a part in creating the climate of racial hysteria, which then creates those oh-so-marketable stories:
Quote
Because the issue of race is such a sensitive and controversial one, it is possible for the media to exploit it. Such manipulation may increase revenue for the newspapers; increased racial tensions may be the national hidden cost of their attempt to drive up sales. Given the number of articles written on a select few versus the lack of articles on a select racially unmotivated few, the following conclusion is unavoidable. The media creates a racial panic.

But this doesn't establish motive - it takes other evidence to do that. The point remains the same: the media considers black victims of white bias more newsworthy than the converse. But please keep Faid's hypothesis in mind....later, I plan to show why it's seriously flawed.

Russell:
Quote
**(I invite anyone who is sufficiently curious, and/or looking for diversion from more productive endeavors, to go back and check whether my "snipping" was to minimize the bullying in question, or for the sake of conciseness - in light of the fact that I included the most egregious instance - the death-threat by the box-cutter wielder.)

Relax, Russell, I admit that you're not being insensitive. I'm just trying to emphasize the fact that these crimes are motivated by minority racism. I thought that you were trying to downplay the racial angle. But since you concede that at least some whites and Asians suffer from racism, I apologize and drop my accusations of quote-mining.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,11:54   

Wooohoooo! Ghost finally published the Scale-Free Marriage Network Model. (scan scan scan) Crap. He didn't. :-( It's been over a week, and Ghost in the Shell can't come through with the 'compelling' evidence.

   
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,12:08   

Quote
Oh, man, do I love debating liberals! This is too funny....you guys really think that I would try to distort a source that I linked to?
Not necessarily. If you read the quote you just quoted, I allowed for the likelihood that you are merely "blinded by the Right". Actually, I rather favor that explanation. It's just that, if you read the quote you just quoted, you'll note that I don't see much meaningful difference between the two.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,12:34   

Quote
I just want the author's data and reasoning on the topic we were like, you know, actually discussing: media bias.
Just to keep things focussed here: you're trying to demonstrate a systematic liberal bias - at least that's what I'm arguing is nonsense.Your essayist points out that if there is a "media bias", it's a bias toward increasing revenue, not towards advancing any particular political agenda.

My own view is not so exclusively revenue-focussed. I don't see how, for instance, giving Bush a pass on lying us into war, ignoring the Downing Street memo, etc., is good for sales. I suspect it's just lack of spine.

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Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,12:36   

stevestory:
Quote
Wooohoooo! Ghost finally published the Scale-Free Marriage Network Model. (scan scan scan) Crap. He didn't. :-( It's been over a week, and Ghost in the Shell can't come through with the 'compelling' evidence.

Since there's been precious little justification for any liberal beliefs proffered on this blog, I find myself unimpressed with your posturing. But don't worry; I won't ask you to leave - we conservatives can tolerate opposing points of view. It's a civilisation thing - you wouldn't understand.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,12:45   

Bill, so far you have demonstrated—at best—a bias in the media that could be ascribed to liberal motives, in a very restricted area of news coverage. Looking at the sum total of news coverage—local, national, and international—it's virtually impossible to demonstrate a consistent liberal bias, especially in political coverage.

Nevertheless, let's say I grant your thesis in its narrowest form: that there is a "liberal" bias to coverage of violent crime involving minorities (for the sake of this argument, "liberal" is defined as an emphasis on reporting majority-on-minority crime rather than vice versa). But you've still failed to answer a question I've posed three times now: why should I care? Should I think minority cultures in this country are inferior to the majority culture? Should I think they're more dangerous? Should I think minorities should not be allowed into the country? What should I think? I already think the media in this country is a miserable, pathetic joke, so I hope your point is deeper than that.

Your premise is lacking a conclusion, Bill.

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2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

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The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,13:59   

Russell:
Quote
Just to keep things focussed here: you're trying to demonstrate a systematic liberal bias - at least that's what I'm arguing is nonsense.Your essayist points out that if there is a "media bias", it's a bias toward increasing revenue, not towards advancing any particular political agenda.

First, I'm talking about a multicultural bias, which isn't restricted to political liberals. Second, I plan on refuting "the media's just in it for the money" argument. For starters, if the "media's just in it for the money", then why do they suppress juicy racial details when their disclosure would only pique public interest? Why doctor scandalous documentaries in such a way to remove their impact? Or is it just the Amurican media that's just trying to make a buck? But then, why do so many newspapers hide the race of a suspect? It seems the excuses are flying:
Quote
Race is often positive news--"The first African American in space" or "The opening of the Filipino-American film festival." But McCormack is trying to make us think more about how to handle the negatives. He points to several studies showing imbalance in the news, with whites shown in a broad range--good, bad, and normal--while people of color are often stereotyped or missing from coverage altogether.

Which brings us back to that mainstay of news reporting: The Crime Story. When people read about the latest white murderer, bank robber, or Enron executive, they typically don't fear the next white guy they pass on the street, because media tells us that most whites are busy doing other things besides mayhem. But reporting minority crime--especially by blacks or Latinos--can add to existing stereotypes and social stigmas.

So what to do? As one white, mid-level news manager angrily said when the question came up, "We're supposed to be journalists, not social workers." Maybe that's why it's taken McCormack six months to draft his guidelines.

McCormack's, journalistic premise, and KRON's current policy, is this: Race as a generic descriptor is rarely relevant to reporting about criminal suspects and should be avoided. "Race is not necessarily descriptive," read the guidelines. "Saying someone is African American, Asian American or Latino tells you what their ethnic background is, not what they look like. Even within the same ethnic group people vary enormously." Race may be handy shorthand for cops, says McCormack, but more often than not it's an almost useless identifier when we are trying to inform the public.
[....]
And there are two key conditions where race may be essential: urgency and proximity. If a white man is running loose RIGHT NOW shooting people in your town, viewers obviously need whatever facts you have. But if the shooting is happening in another state, how does race inform our viewers? Says McCormack, "We should only use skin color if the description is for a suspect in a serious case where the public is at risk, such as murder or rape, and where it is important to catch the criminal as quickly as possible. We should not use it in minor crimes, such as check forgery or petty theft, where there is no violent threat to the public."

I see. The media must protect the public from itself. How noble. And typical.
More later.

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Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
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