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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

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GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,18:21    Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 30 2015,17:55) Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 30 2015,17:38) Update: I now see one comment (not mine) on the screen at the NCSE blog. It's possible I can again post there but right now I have nothing to say right now. Well, apologizing for the unfounded slurs you aimed their direction would be something that you could say, but given the familiarity with your past behavior we have, I'd say that seems unlikely. And for the record I said this, which with all considered is very tame: Quote Elsewhere: From what I can gather I have been banned (or blacklisted) from the NCSE blog. I cannot post anything anymore. With the bullies still running the comments section all constructive discussions with teachers were always nearly impossible. In my opinion that says volumes about those who are claiming to be defending science. I have my right to my opinion, unless I'm being bullied by those who don't even allow that. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,18:30    And further back in this thread I have been mentioning my comments being marked as spam in order to send all I say into moderation. It's not my fault that the NCSE is OK with that happening, in what is supposed to be a public forum. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,18:52    "I have my right to my opinion." Yes, you do.  However, you do not have the right that your opinion must be logical, well-founded, and correct.   Do you realize how ridiculous you look when you double-down on your mistakes?

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,19:57    Quote (N.Wells @ Dec. 30 2015,18:52) "I have my right to my opinion." Yes, you do.  However, you do not have the right that your  opinion must be logical, well-founded, and correct.   Do you realize how ridiculous you look when you double-down on your mistakes? It was no mistake to express my opinion of how the NCSE blog is coming across to people like me. There is some guy there that openly says they are planting a flag for Atheism, while some friends help hammer people associated with a Catholic school or similar with mock and ridicule. It's disturbing to see them sucking-up to the authors by applauding the articles, like a good little science defenders should. The mistake would be in not taking what I said very seriously. On "logic" is this recent discussion: www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/theory-logic-as-fifth-fundamental-force#post-734784 Maybe that will also help explain why there is a whole lot of logic behind my not appreciating Wesley's demand to adhere to a "Heiserman's philosophic stance" that for all I know requires me to join whatever religion he belongs to. To help sum up where we logically stand: For origin of intelligence type work David Heiserman is still the best resource I know of: http://robots.net/article....28.html A version that uses a somewhat more modern single-board controller: http://tnewton.solarbotics.net/robot1.....t1.html If you want to give it electronic hippocampi and entorhinal cortex then I'm currently experimenting with what makes it intuitive for us (or a robotic critter) to navigate from place to place while taking the shortest path possible, and all that. There are so few lines of code rewriting for another language is not much of an issue: http://intelligencegenerator.blogspot.com/....pot.com I'm from the camp where demonstrating how cognition arises is kept simple, by starting with a (primitive but still powerful) brain that has (developmentally) just arisen. Yet the circuit systematics reduce down to what is also shown by Arnold Trehub "The Cognitive Brain", MIT Press 1991, Chapter 9, Page 158, Fig 9.3, for the human brain: https://sites.google.com/site....del.GIF After reducing down the above with the circuit systematics Heiserman used: https://sites.google.com/site....uit.jpg I deserve better than almost constant insults that keep changing the subject away from models and theory in order to make it appear that an issue was found in the above. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,21:01    Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 30 2015,19:57) I deserve better than almost constant insults that keep changing the subject away from models and theory in order to make it appear that an issue was found in the above. Gary, which of the following do you think might explain how you are treated in various fora? (More than one may be true) 1) Your ideas are flawed, but you refuse to acknowledge those flaws, instead demanding they come up with a model for things only you think are relevant. 2) Your communication skills are poor, but when people express confusion, you accuse them of not taking you seriously. 3) Everyone you encounter on the Internet is too stupid to understand your genius. 4). Everyone you encounter on the Internet is part of a vast conspiracy to deprive you of success. 5) People who are much better educated than you get annoyed when you accuse them of ulterior motives after they correct the elementary mistakes you make. 6) Those who might feel bad mocking your stupidity/insanity quickly discover what an asshole you are. Feel free to add more explanations of your own. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,21:39    I guess they are trying to prove that if enough keep repeating the same lies then everyone else will believe them. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2015,21:42    Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 30 2015,21:39) I guess they are trying to prove that if enough keep repeating the same lies then everyone else will believe them. You prove that thesis incorrect every day. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,02:36    I have some sympathy for Gary. If America had decent health care, Gary would be getting some genuine help.

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,07:02    Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 31 2015,03:36) I have some sympathy for Gary. If America had decent health care, Gary would be getting some genuine help. I disagree, vehemently.  You can't help people who refuse to recognize that they have a problem -- not without severely violating medical and personal ethics. I do not believe Gary should be forcibly treated -- unlike Edgar P, I don't think Gary is technically diseased, physically or psychologically.  Changing any aspect of America's health care system isn't going to have the tiniest impact on Gary's condition. Above all else, Gary is harmless.  His ideas could be, if there were the slightest hope of anyone taking them seriously, but Gary himself is the best guarantor that such shall never happen.  Gary, and his inability raise any of his notions to level of actual conceptual clarity, serves as the final bulwark against the propagation of his nonsense. He is indeed a lunatic, but in the colloquial sense, not the diagnostic. He is an utter failure, an incompetent thinker (when he rises the level of actual thought), a persistent fool and blunderer.  But until he sees that there is a problem, there are nothing but problems, with every aspect of his notions, his output, he's not going to change.  And no one has the right to force change on him just because of complete unanimity of opinion that he is a failure, an incompetent thinker, incapable of simple logic, still more incapable of linking logic to evidence, and exhibits the worst case of fulminating logorrhea this side of Gordon Mullings. The only one who can help Gary is Gary, and he is obviously unwilling.  So be it.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,10:28    Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 30 2015,19:42) Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 30 2015,21:39) I guess they are trying to prove that if enough keep repeating the same lies then everyone else will believe them. You prove that thesis incorrect every day. Only if "enough" = 1. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,10:49    Yikes buddy. It was a throwaway comment. I wasn't suggesting Gary be involuntarily committed. But we do disagree. I believe Gary is legitimately mentally ill, and using this forum (and his Visual Basic doodads) as therapy.

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,11:57    Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 31 2015,11:49) Yikes buddy. It was a throwaway comment. I wasn't suggesting Gary be involuntarily committed. But we do disagree. I believe Gary is legitimately mentally ill, and using this forum (and his Visual Basic doodads) as therapy. Sorry, I got up on the (very) cranky side of the bed this morning. Even the slightest hints of involuntary commitment or even treatment put my teeth very much on edge. We do disagree on whether or not Gary is technically 'mentally ill'.  I doubt our opinions of him are all that far apart, we're just nearby opposite sides of that line. I don't think there's any intent on Gary's part that his 'theory' or his doodads, or posting about them, be therapeutic.  I do tend to think they serve that function for him, but only to a small extent. For me, Gary is better explained as an attention whore than as someone who is working out their issues.  Gary's issues haven't really changed in over 9 years.  Bits of the turd have been more thoroughly polished, but there's nothing new there.  There is no 'there' there ;-) Happy New Year to all, even Laddy Gaga.

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,17:05    Black Mast Dancers www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYGfVADTsek -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,21:18    Black Sabbath - Into The Void https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....Mh77xGI Living Colour - Type https://www.youtube.com/watch?v...._GuTUDQ Jimi Hendrix - Band of Gypsys - Machine Gun https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....kjL3Yjg Funkadelic - Maggot Brain https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....33-q4Ao Montrose- Bad Motor Scooter https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....PQoTC30 Fastway - Say What You Will https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....PyavUaw Aldo Nova - Fantasy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....xBP42W0 Joe Satriani - Surfing With The Alien https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....l34Ld00 Stevie Ray Vaughan And Double Trouble 'One Night In Texas' Live 1989 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....25osbkk Happy New Year. Yeah, to you too, Gary. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 31 2015,22:37    Excellent tunes! Thanks! I only need to add a live version: Joe Satriani ~ Surfing with the Alien ~ Satriani Live! [2006] www.youtube.com/watch?v=tznoCmVkmXc And for all those kinda surfing the radio (and other EMF) spectra along with us the list must include: Autograph - Turn up the Radio www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8CcTYsMHYU Wesley might like to know that I have been thinking about how Heiserman's Alpha, Beta and Gamma fit into the model but the navigation network and the way it associates closely related experiences by using a best guess (when motors are running error free and doing fine it keeps the same motor settings not guess new ones). I still cannot speak for David on where it becomes Gamma behavior but where I get a second opinion on something I'll include it in the ID Lab documentation. Since I am very strick with myself about not unnecessarily adding vocabulary that does not explain how the model works it would need to be in addition to the theory of operation (theory of ID). It will none the less be done. So anyhow Happy New Year everyone! And I must add that I found a pyramid illustration to help explain the model to cognitive scientists trying to model humans. More later! -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2016,01:45    And in regards to the NCSE comments outage the perfect timing made me first wonder if it was "ANON declares war on ISIS" that I read about here: www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/anon-declares-war-on-isis Other science sites that use the same comment provider were fine. It seemed possible that all users at specific sites were being blocked, banned or marked as spammers in order to selectively knock out the system. For awhile I wondered whether it was just me or not but where it was I would next have to suspect the nitwits who have been marking my comments as spam, who have a way of proving the Discovery Institute right about Atheism flag-planting of some kind happening in science education. In their case though I don't think their tactic is working for them. It's in my opinion too obvious that they are suck-up trouble makers that are hard to get rid of. I can in a way understand the NCSE's dilemma and made sure to indicate that my gripe was primarily coming from vigilantes trying to run the comments section. I hope that in the new year they on their own grow up to become less of a pain in the ass, than in the past. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2016,02:33    Gary, commenting at the NCSE site didn't work for anyone for 2 or 3 days and even when it appeared to be fixed I noticed that at least one article still didn't have a way to post comments. I haven't checked yet today to see if everything is working. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2016,04:44    I did not check all the latest topics but it looks like (at least nearly) all slowly came back again. Christmas day I thought of linking to the hacking against ISIS article. But I did not want to make it seem like war broke out all around us on the internet. This forum later going out for a while was also ironic. But in that case I checked the US Weather Channel map and saw an ice-storm was moving through the country like the other time(s) it went offline. I figured they would soon enough get the bamboo poles with the wire on it back up in the air again. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 01 2016,11:54    From what I can tell the NCSE site now appears to be working properly. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2016,00:12    Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 01 2016,11:54) From what I can tell the NCSE site now appears to be working properly. I'm curious as to what happened. But with all else going on right now it's certainly not a priority: www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/ian-murdock-famous-programmer-died-in-mysterious-circumstances From what he wrote I expect that Ian reached the giving up stage of alcohol addiction, maybe beginning to experience the dreaded DT's that thankfully I never had. Getting to know a couple of "old-timers" rather well during the better hours right before their death was enough for me to not want to go there. It's then no longer a matter of needing a lifestyle change, it's either way hell that makes some just give up. Blaming others is typical. In this case that led to social media accounts no longer being public and some widespread introspection. Something like that is not as easy as waiting for the comments to return to one of the mayhem filled blogs. It's a small thing where as far as I'm concerned the 2015 award for the most annoying anti-ID blog author clearly has to go to Larry Moran, at Sandwalk. He kept UD and beyond very well challenged, even me. So I can easily enough forgive him. Along with my best wishes for winning the 2016 award too. Conflict like this is what got humanity to the moon and back. So to help launch the new year, on a happy note: Europe - The Final Countdown www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jK-NcRmVcw What gets me off these days are things like launching a Theory of Intelligent Design into orbit around the science world or AI radio DJ that ultimately gets me in trouble with the FCC that ends up helping to make them good at the field office so it was in a way a pleasure to have become involved in the by that time two year W I Don't Know experiment. I could never accomplish all that while drinking and at times all mad at the world. As before I'm in the name of science outside the normal system but not because I'm against it, it's just something not worth causing a fuss over that sometimes does anyway. My problem was in realizing that people I thought looked down on me for having become a "radio pirate" really did not, at all. I was like hip and did not know it. Now the science mission has me labeled with new stereotypical names. But I know they can as much help as hurt me, so oh well. I care about getting the science behind it all just right, otherwise the stereotype reversals are not possible. The NCSE is a little caught up in it but with all considered it's better than the Discovery Institute having full control over the Theory of Intelligent Design. In science, it's whatever that eventually gets accepted that counts. Where it's a cognitive science based perspective that helps make sense of our most mysterious behaviors then properly "teaching the controversy" leads to something constructive, worth knowing. Leaving it out would be sinful. It's a matter of taking the bad with the good, without going crazy in the process. So for those who may need it right now I'll end my reply with this, then leave it at that: Oasis - Don't Look Back In Anger www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8OipmKFDeM -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2016,02:29    Quote I care about getting the science behind it all just right No, you don't. If that were in the slightest bit true, you would do it properly. You would use standard terminology or provide new valid new definitions and justify their usage; You would make valid claims; You would supply some supporting evidence; You would care enough about your stuff to try to present it in comprehensible English; You would correct your mistakes; You would ground-truth your model; You would try to make and test some valid predictions from your hypothesis that would not be predicted by competing ideas. You would learn enough about the fields you were critiquing to avoid making stupid mistakes every time you spouted off about something. You would respond to valid criticisms. You wouldn't toss word salad around in an effort to sound science-y.

ChemiCat Posts: 532 Joined: Nov. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2016,10:24    Quote What gets me off these days are things like launching a Theory of Intelligent Design into orbit around the science world or AI radio DJ that ultimately gets me in trouble with the FCC that ends up helping to make them good at the field office so it was in a way a pleasure to have become involved in the by that time two year W I Don't Know experiment. I could never accomplish all that while drinking and at times all mad at the world. So it wasn't the drink that fried your brain. Then it must have been hard drugs. A suggestion, Gaulin. Why not get your wife to read your posts out loud to you before posting them. You may realise what is wrong with them. Launching your "not-a-theory" around anything is a waste of resources. Turn green, Gaulin and do your bit to avert climate change. Compost your drivel and help save the Earth.

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2016,17:36    The shape of things to come: Generated by human-blind automated procedures, this diagram depicts an oversimplified graphical model of the information representation flow from sensory inputs (bottom) to abstract representations (top) in human cortex. Bottom layer of the pyramid included a sample representative description of the 20th percentile of behavioral elements closest to sensory inputs, the next layer up includes a sample description of behavioral elements from the 20–40th percentile…with the top layer containing a sample description of the behavioral elements distributed deepest in the cortical network, at the structural pinnacle of cognition. (credit: P. Taylor et al./Nature Scientific Reports) Links and more: www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/wirelessly-controlled-humanoid-robot Elsewhere: behind the scenes engineering study work is now being done. We will all have to be patient, wait for their results. -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 02 2016,23:16    You have to see this new one! Coldplay - Adventure Of A Lifetime (Official video) www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtXby3twMmI -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 03 2016,19:27    I have been studying this fascinating experiment that shows how at a certain "point of no return" the navigation network fully controls a horse's behavior towards the "draw" even though that will cause them to momentarily lose sight of what is attracting them: Horse Reasoning Power & Thought Process - How Draw Can Help or Hurt You https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....CO6b9S0 -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2016,14:36    Gary, you haven't been presenting your stuff effectively.  Perhaps if you tried something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....m=email

Wesley R. Elsberry Posts: 4991 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 04 2016,20:28    Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 30 2015,18:21) Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 30 2015,17:55) Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 30 2015,17:38) Update: I now see one comment (not mine) on the screen at the NCSE blog. It's possible I can again post there but right now I have nothing to say right now. Well, apologizing for the unfounded slurs you aimed their direction would be something that you could say, but given the familiarity with your past behavior we have, I'd say that seems unlikely. And for the record I said this, which with all considered is very tame: Quote Elsewhere: From what I can gather I have been banned (or blacklisted) from the NCSE blog. I cannot post anything anymore. With the bullies still running the comments section all constructive discussions with teachers were always nearly impossible. In my opinion that says volumes about those who are claiming to be defending science. I have my right to my opinion, unless I'm being bullied by those who don't even allow that. Your "opinion" that you had been "banned or blacklisted" was both false and apparently malicious. I realize that your cognitive processes can't cope with any error-correction, but others will recognize that such accusations make apologies necessary for people with non-degaussed moral compasses. -------------- "You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

GaryGaulin Posts: 5385 Joined: Oct. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2016,06:57    Oh Wesley, please get over it. Just enjoy the show. Be thankful none at the NCSE or you are in Vincent's current situation: sandwalk.blogspot.com/2016/01/answering-two-questions-from-vincent.html?showComment=1451998232857#c277742681011200331 -------------- The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

N.Wells Posts: 1836 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2016,08:32    Quote Oh Wesley, please get over it. Why should he? - he's right, and you're wrong.  The easiest way to get beyond a mistake is to apologize for being wrong and to issue a correction, instead of doubling down, twisting and turning, deflecting, revising history, and shifting goalposts. Starting on December 30: 1 Quote Elsewhere: From what I can gather I have been banned (or blacklisted) from the NCSE blog. I cannot post anything anymore. With the bullies still running the comments section all constructive discussions with teachers were always nearly impossible. In my opinion that says volumes about those who are claiming to be defending science. 2 Quote The whole system is run like a circus 3 Quote Like you have the right to accuse me of slurs. You should be apologizing to me, but that's not how it works in your clubhouse. 4 Quote And for the record I said this, which with all considered is very tame: .......... I have my right to my opinion, unless I'm being bullied by those who don't even allow that. 5 Quote And further back in this thread I have been mentioning my comments being marked as spam in order to send all I say into moderation. It's not my fault that the NCSE is OK with that happening, in what is supposed to be a public forum. 6 Quote It was no mistake to express my opinion of how the NCSE blog is coming across to people like me. There is some guy there ........ 7 Quote I deserve better than almost constant insults that keep changing the subject away from models and theory in order to make it appear that an issue was found in the above. 8 Quote Christmas day I thought of linking to the hacking against ISIS article. But I did not want to make it seem like war broke out all around us on the internet. 2) Double-down,  3) Deflecting,  4) Deflecting again, 5) Moving the goal posts & doubling down, 6) Deflecting (really?  "There's a guy there..?",  7) Complete revision of history: your initial statement indicates that you thought it was a war against you, not war breaking out all around everyone.  Not incidentally, note that in your revised history you would still have been wrong. Quote [From Gary at Sandwalk] Vincent, please try to use the “theory of intelligent design” that you represent to first qualify what is (or is not) “intelligent” then explain how “intelligent cause” works and/or worked through biology. ........ Scientific theories explain how something works or happened. What do you have for the phenomenon of “intelligent cause” that the premise of your own theory obliges you to scientifically explain? You could try meeting your own challenges.

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2016,18:05    I've skipped large portions of this thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

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