Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::AF Dave's UPDATED Creator God Hypothesis

Posted: May 17 2006,05:33

Quote (afdave @ May 17 2006,10:10)

Yes. I'm dangerous and so was Newton and Maxwell. Look out world!

Just having a flashback moment to Carl Sagan talking about crackpots defending themselves with "They laughed at Galileo....." and then says, "Yes, they laughed at Gallileo, they laughed at Pasteur, but they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

And, Dave, put down the apologetics. I know it's nice to read things that reinforce your beliefs and all, but try picking up an actual science book (or two. Or three. Dozen.)

Moorit

Chris Hyland

Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,05:39

Quote

Here's a suggestion from a progressive minded YEC: �instead of trying to 'stay one step ahead' of the bacteria, how about we all recognize they were designed and then chase after a smarter way to defeat them more permanently than just developing a new anti-biotic every year. �That's just one suggestion. �There are many more.

People are trying to find ways to defeat bacteria once and for all, can you please explain to me how the assumption that it is a designed entity will help?

Quote

The General ToE is in reality a "black eye" on the otherwise beautiful face of science.

What do you mean by a black eye? If you mean it is something that you find disagreable then that's just tough. If you mean because it is wrong it's holding back science then thats just wrong. Please tell me how you would do things differently? Or how the creationist scientists say they would do it differently.

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you never read the actual writings of the founders of modern science? �Do you really have no idea that most of them were theists?

Again evolution has nothing to do with God. And no you can't quote Richard Dawkins at me.

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Morality. �Why do we all have a sense of it? �Why do none of us live up to it perfectly? �Where did it come from? �How does this phenomenon give support to the Creator God Hypothesis?

Just so you know in advance, the bible predicting that people should have morals is not a valid argument. You wouldn't want to sound like Kent Hovind would you?

Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,05:45

Davey dog,
What up bone? (head)

Oops, better go look in the mirror, you put your Christianity on backwards. Does it hurt to be as ridiculous and stupid as you are?

You got rhythm but you got no soul.
Your head is planted in your ass hole.
You think you're smart and that's ok
Because it's more fun for me that way.

Just a little ditty I wrote. Maybe you could put it to a tune? Anyone?

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

normdoering

Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,06:21

Quote (afdave @ May 17 2006,10:10)

Reading assignment for tonight: Mere Chrisitanity, Part 1 - Right and Wrong as a Clue to the Meaning of the Universe, by C. S. Lewis.

Hmmm C. S. Lewis in Mere Christianity might explain why Dave laid such an egg here:

Quote

. . . If they do not understand books written for grown-ups, they should not talk about them. All the scriptural imagery . . . is, of course, a merely symbolical attempt to express the inexpressible. . . . People who take these symbols literally might as well think that when Christ told us to be like doves, He meat that we were to lay eggs.

Could it be, Dave, that you are taking Genesis and Noah too literally and laying an egg?

thurdl01

Posts: 99
Joined: Mar. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,06:23

Quote (Chris Hyland @ May 17 2006,11:39)

People are trying to find ways to defeat bacteria once and for all, can you please explain to me how the assumption that it is a designed entity will help?

Step one: Identify that they're designed.
Step two: Identify the designer.
Step three: Beat the designer up until he calls them back.
Step four: Profit!

ericmurphy

Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,07:49

So, Dave�given your assertion on your other thread that you don't see the need to present positive evidence in favor of your "Creator God Hypothesis," should we stop waiting for it? Should we just shut this thread down since it's clear you have no intention of backing up your assertions?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." �Scott Adams

jeannot

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Posted: May 17 2006,09:50

The problem with Dave, is that he has to answer lots of objections and questions from several posters. Since he obviously can't answer all, and I won't blame him for that, he can freely choose which point he wants to address (sic), leaving the remaining, most relevant points unanswered.
So there can't be any real debate.

MidnightVoice

Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,10:10

Quote (thurdl01 @ May 17 2006,11:23)

Step one: Identify that they're designed.

Step two:Come to understand the designer is a moron for making pathogenic bacteria
Step three:Abandon all faith in the "intelligent" designer
Step four: go back to where we started.

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

incorygible

Posts: 374
Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,10:29

Quote (jeannot @ May 17 2006,14:50)

The problem with Dave, is that he has to answer lots of objections and questions from several posters. Since he obviously can't answer all, and I won't blame him for that, he can freely choose which point he wants to address (sic), leaving the remaining, most relevant points unanswered.
So there can't be any real debate.

True. When it comes to his responses, we can't blame him for a small sample size relative to the population. We CAN however blame him for poor sampling method, poor data collection from that sample, poor analysis of that data, poor inferrences from those analyses, and poor publication of the results...

And that's to say nothing of his rather flawed "experimental design", poor initial hypotheses, poor bakground research...

Posts: 1902
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,10:35

Or we can just make fun of him for his utter stupidity.

How does plate techtonics work Davey-dog?

What does the speed of light tell us?

Does it hurt to be so stupid?

I don't know about the rest of these folks but I for one gave you a chance. You blew it. But, in retrospect I suppose I'm not surprised. You have proven yourself to be an idiot, just like evey other YEC who comes to argue.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,11:08

I've seen plenty of people on PT and AtBC who come here completely ignorant, and I applaud the endless patience afforded to them by commenters here, as the commenters try to work them through the basics. It's a very stark contrast to what the discussion with AFDave is becoming, where experts, tired of being insulted by an arrogant dimbulb, are just losing their temper and telling him what an idiot he is. I include myself in that, I lost my temper a bit. There are limits to human patience.

normdoering

Posts: 287
Joined: July 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,11:52

Quote (BWE @ May 17 2006,15:35)

Does it hurt to be so stupid?

That's not fair to Dave. Remember, almost everyone before Darwin (and most people in America still) believed in some kind of special creation. Dave grew up the soon of a missionary -- the son of a believer who had practiced the art of convincing others. He's no doubt led a very sheltered life in which a lot of science was hidden from him.

He may be ignorant and brainwashed, but he's not necessarily stupid.

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,11:54

Let me amend that statement to say that the things he says are stupid. Davey-dog himself is a joke.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,12:09

Davey spoke up for CS Lewis...

Dave, stories of talking lions are about as impressive in a scientific discussion as watery tarts tossing swords about is in a political one (MP fans I'm sure recognize the reference).

CS Lewis is recommended reading for children. �Haven't you moved past elementary school yet?

don't answer, that was rhetorical. �all of us here already know the answer.

@BWE:

Quote

Your head is planted in your ass hole.

hey, you saw the photo of Dave i posted?

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Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,12:23

From the last day or so of comments, it looks like AFDave has lost his previous enthusiasm for arguing about the details. I think he got completely lost trying to follow you guys and had no choice but to pull back to Salvadoresque statements like "We're winning! You're on the Darwintanic!"

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Posted: May 17 2006,12:28

That picture was what I was referencing. It clearly shows his head up his ass. It's surprising that this typing isn't more muffled.

By the way, I am still reading that paper you wrote and I am curious whether you tried to measure any of the wild responses as a control group. i.e. did you watch an event in the wild and then try to recreate it with your fishy in a baggie? And if so, did you set up a categorization system for natural responses that was separate from your experimental response? -(what did you do to control for the effect of the baggie and the observer)

-I appologize if you cover that toward the end, I haven't quite finished yet.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,12:42

@bwe

hate it I do to say this, but you should move that question to the thread on my paper, where'd I'd be more than happy to discuss it at length.

I hate discussing real science in a thread started by the singularity in mind that is Dave.

more on topic, I wonder if the Air Force is proud of Dave's reasoning abilities? �I have friends in the AF, and I can't recall any of them who actually fly with such backwards logic and reasoning capabilities, even the religious ones.

funny enough, one of my oldest friends who went into the airforce (now flies bombers at a base in Oregon) was also named Dave. I should ask him what he thinks about AFDave's arguments...

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,12:46

My aquaintances who opted for military service are either out because they finished their time or are heavily into the officer thing. None were even, as far as I know, Christian.

Sorry on the other, I got confused which thread I was in.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,12:53

Intelligence can be heterogeneously distributed across a person's beliefs. A person can be quite bright in certain areas, yet insane in others. Look at Jon Wells. PhD in biochemistry or something, and simultaneously a Moonie.

PuckSR

Posts: 314
Joined: Nov. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,12:56

Quote

I do believe that Jesus was in fact, the Creator in a human body. Weird I know, but well supported I believe. More on that as we progresss.

Well supported by what?
Jesus begging "his father" for an alternative to cruxifiction?
Jesus's constant reference to his "father"?
Jesus claiming he acted on behalf of his father?
Where do you find support for the insane position that Jesus was God in corporeal form?

Quote

Creationism explains everything MUCH better than Evolution does. It explains designs in nature, it explains the human condition, it explains the fossil record, it explains coal beds and oil wells, it explains the races of mankind. It explains dinosaurs and the ice age. It has predicted many things including the ubiquitous gaps in the fossil record and support for the typological view of nature when the molecular data was examined.

What....sorry Im new.....
How does it explain a segmented fossil record?
How does it explain the ice age?
How does it explain dinosaurs?
I can see where your coming from on some of the other ones...but your really stretching the "book" to explain the former claims.

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No. As you will see if you stay with me, the Bible is in a class all by itself and is best explained as the sole, authoritative message of the Creator to mankind.

Really? Then why does the New Testament have so many different authors?
If God really wanted to speak to mankind...wouldnt he have choosen just one man....perhaps "the mouthpiece of Allah"

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I don't know many Buddhists and even fewer Hindus. My sister tried Buddhism and later committed suicide. I've read stories about Hudson Taylor in China and his encounters with Bhuddhism and they were not pretty. Ditto for William Carey with Hinduism in India. But that's about the extent of my experience with these religions.

Wow....3 people....
You may want to start telling the +1 billion people of the world who practice these 2 similiar religions that they are living a lie.....
And that they are miserable.....
They wont listen...because they are too happy....but you can try to tell them....

[QUOTE][/QUOTE]

ericmurphy

Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,13:41

Dave keeps saying that "the Bible explains this better than evolution," or "Creationism explains that better than evolution," but so far he hasn't given a single example of how either the Bible or Creationism explains anything. Well, okay, he once said the Bible "explained" where Cain's and Abel's wives came from by asserting that Cain and Abel married their sisters, but he never said where, exactly, it says that either in the Bible or any other Christian text, nor did he give any evidence that it ever actually happened that way.

Likewise, he's now claiming that Creationism "explains" where dinosaurs came from, and that it "explains" how coal formed.

Well, Dave, it's easy enough for me to say that the FSM theory "explains" the existence of the Higgs field, but I don't think that assertion would get me any closer to that Nobel Prize I've been pining for over the last two decades.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." �Scott Adams

Posts: 846
Joined: April 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,14:02

Quote

Intelligence can be heterogeneously distributed across a person's beliefs

indeed, but what we see with AFDave is different than holes in knowledge, it's a basic difference in the way his brain processes and rationalizes logic.

to whit:

we've fed him copious amounts of information to balance his lack of intellectual knowledge on the subjects at hand, to no avail as far as i can see.

his brain is wired differently. �has nothing to do with general or specific intelligence, AFAICT.

here's another example:

someone mistranslates a phrase in german and so misconstrues its meaning.

typically, if it was a matter of intelligence a quick refresher course in german would repair the matter, but if it was AFDave, my prediction would be that he would still prefer the mistranslated, misconstrued version, and state that all those who actually know how to speak german are simply wrong.

Quote

yet insane in others

yes, that's been my leaning for a long time now. �hence my broken record "projection" statements.

learning to recognize when we are utilizing pyschological defense mechanisms instead of rational thought processes is beneficial to all of us.

I'm reasonably (?) sure that in some other area which he has yet to demonstrate, AFDave can exhibit rational thought.

but not here.

perhaps "insanely stupid" would be a more comprehensive description?

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Posted: May 17 2006,14:09

Quote

I don't know many Buddhists and even fewer Hindus. My sister tried Buddhism and later committed suicide. I've read stories about Hudson Taylor in China and his encounters with Bhuddhism and they were not pretty.

According to Adherents.com, the country with the highest percentage of Buddhists is Thailand, at 95%. According to PubMed (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=16179332&dopt=Abstract) Thailand's suicide rate is 7.8 per 100,000. According to religioustolerance.org, the US suicide rate is 12 per 100,000 (http://www.religioustolerance.org/sui_fact.htm I couldn't find the US suicide rate at PubMed). NIMH says in 2000, "10.6 out of every 100,000 persons died by suicide" in the US. So a brief glance at the data does not support the idea that suicide and unhappiness is high for buddhists and low for christians. In general, suicide rate tends to correlate with drastic social changes. For instance, the highest suicide levels are found in former Soviet-bloc countries.

Occam's Aftershave

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Joined: Feb. 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,15:28

Looks like AFDave the missionary is having quite a bad day.

Well Dave, we all know what happens to arrogant pushy missionaries, now don't we?

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"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

afdave

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Posted: May 17 2006,16:49

Excellent cartoon ... Here's one of my favorites ...

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A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

deadman_932

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Joined: May 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,16:50

AFDave: I asked a very simple question yesterday. I will ask it again. When did this global flood described in genesis happen? What date BCE? Don't avoid this simple question, dave, just deal with it.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

afdave

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Joined: April 2006

Posted: May 17 2006,16:57

You mean BC? As in Before Christ?

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,17:05

He said BCE, not BC.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/ce.htm

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Joined: April 2005

Posted: May 17 2006,17:19

hmm, I'm curious;

what does that cartoon you posted say to you dave?

ignore the talking beetles (and the talking lions, for that matter), and just tell me what you see there.

deadman_932

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