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  Topic: Presidential Politics & Antievolution, Tracking the issue< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
PTET



Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,10:30   

There's no mention of evolution, but I've got a bit of video up of Jack Van Impe talking about Sarah Palin and World War III.

Don't worry too much... The War isn't going to start until *after* the Rapture, apparently.

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"It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time.
Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,12:53   

Somewhat off-topic, Palin has one of the ugliest accents I've heard in a long time. Where the hell'd she get it? Is this a normal accent for white people in Alaska?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
PTET



Posts: 133
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,13:13   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 25 2008,12:53)
Somewhat off-topic, Palin has one of the ugliest accents I've heard in a long time. Where the hell'd she get it? Is this a normal accent for white people in Alaska?

I reckon Palin is playing up the homely-hic chic with her accent - especially when she gets out of her depth in interviews/speaking. Which means "normally".

Did you read that the morons at NRO are apparently calling for McCain to let Palin take his place in debates with Obama? That I would *pay* to see.

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"It’s not worth the effort to prove the obvious. Ridiculous ideas don’t deserve our time.
Even the attempt to formulate ID is a generous accommodation." - ScottAndrews

   
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,13:23   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 25 2008,09:36)
               
Quote
Late 80s to early 90s. We deregulated the Savings and Loan business in the 80s, and half of them promptly went tango-uniform. The government was forced to step in with bailout $$ and the Resolution Trust Corporation to prevent a financial melt-down. President was a guy named 'Bush'. Any of this sound familiar?

I was working in the mortgage industry and remember it somewhat differently. Mortgage interest rates went from 9 percent in 1978 to nearly 18 percent in 1982. All kinds of tricks were invented to enable people to buy houses. ARM loans, which quickly rose to market rate, and something called a Graduated Payment Mortgage, in which the first year's payment didn't even cover interest. People found themselves, after three years owing more than they had borrowed, and monthly payments twice what they had started at.

Foreclosures skyrocketed in the early to mid 1980s. At the time I was working on mortgage software, Bank of America had at least 150 people working on foreclosures. That's just people using the software I helped write.

The economy killer was interest rates. From 1984 to 1992, mortgage interest rates fell from 14 percent to about 8 percent.

http://www.freddiemac.com/pmms/pmms30.htm

Well, I can't claim to any expertise in the mortgage industry, but I believe my history was correct. The RTC was created in 1989 in response to the S&L crisis of the late 1980s. The RTC took over more than 700 failed thrifts by the mid 90s; the FSLIC took over several hundred others. These events post-date the ones you mention (which no doubt contributed to the crisis).

For investors and depositors who had their life savings tied up in these institutions, the impacts were devastating. In many cases the private insurance the S&Ls carried was not enough to cover the losses and the depostiors simply lost their savings, or were returned pennies on the dollar (until the government stepped in). The collapse of Old Court Savings and Loan, here in Maryland, was memorably devastating. Some small satisfaction could be gained by seeing its president, Jeffry Levitt, hauled off to prison for fraud. The same could not be said for the consequences suffered by Neil Bush (funny how that Bush name just keeps on turning up, doesn't it?!), who was director of the Silverado S&L when it went belly-up in 1988 to the tune of $1.3B taxpayer dollars (I think he paid a $50k fine for fiduciary irresponsibility), or for Senator John McCain, who, as a member of the Keating Five, was cleared of wrongdoing in that influence-peddling scandal by the Senate Ethics Committee, receiving only a hand-slap for poor judgment.

George Bush never quite lived down that "read my lips; no new taxes" pledge that he made in 1988 and broke in 1990. It surely helped to cost him the election in 1992. However, the tax increases he agreed to, as well as the pay-as-you-go federal budget processes he helped enact, eventually led the country from annual deficits to annual surpluses (at least, in the last three Clinton budgets). Ahh, the good old days.

And now, back to the thread topic...

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"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
midwifetoad



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Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,13:57   

RTC may have been created in 1989, but the damage was done by high interest rates and bad loans made a decade earlier. It takes years for people to default on mortgages when the default is due to creeping payments, and it can take years to foreclose on loans after default.

The costs associated with foreclosure, coupled with huge numbers of properties that had to be liquidated quickly at less than the value of the note, did in the savings and loans.

This cycle will repeat every time government policy makes loans available to vast numbers of people who will be unable to repay them. The current mess is exacerbated by loans made that exceed the market value of the property. This is a fact regardless of who deserves the blame. I suspect there is more than enough to go around.

The disastrous economy and high interest rates that made Carter a one-term president were the result of paying for the Vietnam War. Again, it often takes a decade or more for policy decisions to result in a national crisis.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,14:28   

Lauren Upton wants to be our next Vice-President.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,18:43   

Quote (dogdidit @ Sep. 25 2008,05:28)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 20 2008,17:58)
Being a strictly non-partisan kind of guy, I think it is likely that the mortgage bailout will drain every available dollar from the federal budget for several years, effectively rendering presidential policy moot.

We did this once before, in the 80s.

Late 80s to early 90s. We deregulated the Savings and Loan business in the 80s, and half of them promptly went tango-uniform. The government was forced to step in with bailout $$ and the Resolution Trust Corporation to prevent a financial melt-down. President was a guy named 'Bush'. Any of this sound familiar?

The cost of the bailout forced Bush to raise taxes, thereby violating his campaign promise to do no such thing ("read my lips") and so angering the Republican base that their already lukewarm support of him dried up, allowing Clinton to deny him re-election in 1992.

Bush Sr.'s status as a "one-termer" status puts him on a par with Jimmy Carter and Herbert Hoover. The shame, the shame! Bush Jr's presidency is largely about redeeming the family honor. It's all about Daddy.

Neil Bush (the more stupider one) managed to get his ass bailed out and avoid jail. John McCain was also one of the Keating 5. Of the K5 whores, McSame was the closest personal manfriend of Charles Keating.

(Oh, I see that this was covered much more better by earlier posts. Never mind).

Edited by Dr.GH on Sep. 25 2008,16:47

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Lou FCD



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,18:56   

Directly relevant to the topic.

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,19:09   

Quote
Neil Bush (the more stupider one) managed to get his ass bailed out and avoid jail. John McCain was also one of the Keating 5. Of the K5 whores, McSame was the closest personal manfriend of Charles Keating.


Quote
After a lengthy investigation, the Senate Ethics Committee determined in 1991 that Alan Cranston, Dennis DeConcini, and Donald Riegle had substantially and improperly interfered with the FHLBB in its investigation of Lincoln Savings. Senators John Glenn and John McCain were cleared of having acted improperly but were criticized for having exercised "poor judgment".


Why all the selective reporting?  By the way, I find this amusing:

Quote
After 1999, the only member of the Keating Five remaining in the U.S. Senate was John McCain, who had an easier time gaining re-election in 1992 than he anticipated,[46] and who ran for president in 2000 and became the Republican presidential nominee in 2008. McCain survived the political scandal in part by becoming friendly with the political press.[46]


Not that the press is ever biased or anything.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 25 2008,19:43   

She's even bad at repeating her memorized answers.

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“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,08:29   

Once again, the MSM twists things to distort their meaning.

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,09:11   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 25 2008,13:57)
RTC may have been created in 1989, but the damage was done by high interest rates and bad loans made a decade earlier. It takes years for people to default on mortgages when the default is due to creeping payments, and it can take years to foreclose on loans after default.

The costs associated with foreclosure, coupled with huge numbers of properties that had to be liquidated quickly at less than the value of the note, did in the savings and loans.

This cycle will repeat every time government policy makes loans available to vast numbers of people who will be unable to repay them. The current mess is exacerbated by loans made that exceed the market value of the property. This is a fact regardless of who deserves the blame. I suspect there is more than enough to go around.

Fair E Nuff, but your original post referred to the impact on the federal budget, which became an issue when the RTC was formed and funded in 1989 to take over the failing thrifts:
Quote
Being a strictly non-partisan kind of guy, I think it is likely that the mortgage bailout will drain every available dollar from the federal budget for several years, effectively rendering presidential policy moot.

What available dollars? The S&L debacle of the 80s/90s eventually cost the taxpayers somewhere around $125B, and the upfront costs were enough to prompt the Republican president to raise taxes (at a considerable cost to his political career, I might add...but then George Sr always placed service before self-interest, a habit of mind that he failed to instill in his sons). This time around the upfront costs look to be more like ONE TRILLION DOLLARS

and no evidence so far that the Republican president's son has any intention of raising taxes. In fact, he remains dedicated to making permanent the cuts he enacted or are on the way; most importantly, the elimination of the inheritance tax in 2010. Just because our children are to inherit a crushing burden of debt does not mean that his children are. Or John McCain's.

Does he think that we can get there by cutting discretionary funding? Freezing the science budget? Gee, we could whack the financing for NPR; $200M down, $999,800M to go!

Perhaps it's too much to expect a lame duck president to do anything, but his presumptive Republican replacement isn't showing us anything different. Even as he air-drops himself into the bailout fray (though parachute rides ought to be something he avoids), McCain continues to self-identify as a de-regulator and tax-cutter. Not exactly the temperament one needs given that the problem was caused by lack of regulation and oversight, and whose solution will inevitably require new taxes. New taxes were going to be required anyhow, to pay for the unfunded liabilities of Social Security, and Medicare. And the cost of the War in Iran Iraq. Read my lips.

And what are we to make of his poor judgment (the Senate Ethics Committee's words, not mine) he displayed in the last bank crisis? "Good judgment comes from experience, and experience comes from bad judgment"?? Perhaps, but I also believe "past performance is a reliable predictor of future behaviour". I'm just sayin'.

Quote
The disastrous economy and high interest rates that made Carter a one-term president were the result of paying for the Vietnam War. Again, it often takes a decade or more for policy decisions to result in a national crisis

Don't overlook the 1970s oil shock. Or the Teheran embassy hostage crisis (which locked Carter in the WHite House, effectively denying him the ability to campaign). JMHO but had Desert One led to a successful raid (Entebbe-like), Carter would have been re-elected in 1980.

Don't get me wrong, mwt. I'm a registered Republican. I voted for Reagan in 1980. I read Jude Wanniski, and supply-side economics, and A Time For Truth. I am not playing partisan politics here. I am just noting that we are well and truly screwed. The last thing we need is leadership dedicated to screwing us in even further.

Sorry, all, for the huge OT post. Time for a trip to the loo, Lou?

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"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,09:33   

I think it is a widely held opinion that money will be tight for the next administration, regardless of who wins. I doubt if any party not contemplating suicide will raise taxes significantly.

I have been registered as an Independent since my first vote in 1972. I voted for McGovern. It's about the only vote I've cast with any enthusiasm. I fully understand the enthusiasm for Obama, but I don't share it. I think a Hillary/Obama ticket would have been unbeatable. At the moment I wouldn't bet on Obama, even though today's polls have him ahead.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,09:50   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 26 2008,07:33)
I think it is a widely held opinion that money will be tight for the next administration, regardless of who wins. I doubt if any party not contemplating suicide will raise taxes significantly.

Not necessarily. Obama's campaigned from the beginning saying that he'd raise taxes on the wealthiest people, and he's still been ahead of McCain most of the last 4 months.

Considering that the deficit is about to double to close to a trillion dollars, I think even some Republicans realize that spending on credit forever just might be risky. Of course, plenty of other GOPers won't see a problem with putting a new Iran war on our Chinese Express card.

Gutting government services the way the Norquist crowd fantasizes about would be suicide for the GOP. And those same people never favor big military spending cuts. So their position isn't tenable.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,10:07   

Taxing the rich is the Democrats' equivalent of the NRA and Right to Life.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,10:37   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 26 2008,08:07)
Taxing the rich is the Democrats' equivalent of the NRA and Right to Life.

Your point being?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
midwifetoad



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Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,10:50   

Campaign rhetoric.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,10:54   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 26 2008,16:07)
Taxing the rich is the Democrats' equivalent of the NRA and Right to Life.

Now even I wouldn't go that far! I'd even go as far as to call "bullshit!".

An affordable, incremental tax system hardly equates to the irrationality underpinning the two organisations you mentioned. That sort of rhetoric is a hair's breadth from claiming climate change to be a leftist conspiracy to increase taxes and government control. Look beyond your borders where taxes can be high(er) without the sort of juvenile envy of the rich you imply motivates them.

This doesn't for a second mean that a) I don't realise the "tax those rich bastards" rhetoric occasionally prevalent amongst certain "left" leaning groups exists (it does, and it's stupid), nor b) in a capitalist society there is some inevitable trade off between taxation and entrepreneurial encouragement.

Hasn't the last 100 or so years convinced anyone yet that the freer elements of free market, laissez-faire capitalism simply doesn't work? Greater control, however unpleasant such a prospect might be, is a necessary component of the market. That applies to tax as much as it does to curbing the excesses of corporations.

And I speak as someone paying the highest rate of tax in the UK (and paying it willingly) and for whom greater than 50% of their salary is taxed at this rate. (Which logically doesn't count for much, but I thought I'd pre-empt the inevitable)

Louis

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Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,11:01   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 26 2008,16:50)
Campaign rhetoric.

There's something about this whole "rhetoric balancing act" I just don't get. Of course there is rhetorical bullshit flung left and right in any political campaign, but isn't the point to see through it to the issues?

I suppose if one were seriously interested in who flung more rhetorical bullshit one could find out but I'd argue that's an exercise in futility. The effort it would take is better expended cutting through the rhetoric, researching the issues, and quizzing the candidates on the issues. Don't let them get away with glib answers and appeals to prejudice, pin them to the floor and get answers out of them. Do we have to continue expecting so little from our politicians? (This applies equally to the UK btw).

Yes the Reps use rhetorical bullshit. Yes the Dems use rhetorical bullshit. We get it. We got it before anyone mentioned it. It is eminently getable. Now, is there any chance that political exchange could evolve beyond the "them and us" tribalism of a troop of chimps exploring a jungle made from the tu quoque fallacy and something like...oooooooohh I don't know.....a dialogue materialise?

Louis

ETA to fix stuff

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Bye.

  
Louis



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,11:05   

Quote (dogdidit @ Sep. 26 2008,15:11)
[SNIP]

This time around the upfront costs look to be more like ONE TRILLION DOLLARS

and no evidence so far that the Republican president's son has any intention of raising taxes.

[SNIP]

By the way, I'm sending you a bill for a new keyboard and my afternoon double espresso.

This section of your comment caused major coffee expulsion through my nose. Which strangely isn't as pleasant as it sounds.

Louis

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Bye.

  
JAM



Posts: 517
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,11:27   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 26 2008,10:07)
Taxing the rich is the Democrats' equivalent of the NRA and Right to Life.

I guess that's because you think that taxing the poor is a much better idea?

  
JAM



Posts: 517
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,11:28   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 25 2008,12:53)
Somewhat off-topic, Palin has one of the ugliest accents I've heard in a long time. Where the hell'd she get it? Is this a normal accent for white people in Alaska?

It's a Minnesota/Scandanavian accent, found throughout the Dakotas and into Montana and Idaho. It doesn't surprise me that it's common in Alaska too.

  
JAM



Posts: 517
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,11:33   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 25 2008,13:57)
This cycle will repeat every time government policy makes loans available to vast numbers of people who will be unable to repay them.

So the policy of the mortgage-origination industry of making loans and not keeping them (selling them immediately after origination, leaving them no financial interest in the ability of the borrowers to repay) had nothing to do with the present cycle?

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,12:21   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 26 2008,11:05)
 
Quote (dogdidit @ Sep. 26 2008,15:11)
[SNIP]

This time around the upfront costs look to be more like ONE TRILLION DOLLARS

and no evidence so far that the Republican president's son has any intention of raising taxes.

[SNIP]

By the way, I'm sending you a bill for a new keyboard and my afternoon double espresso.

This section of your comment caused major coffee expulsion through my nose. Which strangely isn't as pleasant as it sounds.

Louis



--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,12:39   

Quote (JAM @ Sep. 26 2008,11:33)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 25 2008,13:57)
This cycle will repeat every time government policy makes loans available to vast numbers of people who will be unable to repay them.

So the policy of the mortgage-origination industry of making loans and not keeping them (selling them immediately after origination, leaving them no financial interest in the ability of the borrowers to repay) had nothing to do with the present cycle?

That is an excellent point and is part of why I believe that the whole situation is a case study in moral hazard. You can find moral hazard issues at every level of the problem, including the individual consumer.

And, while I think this bailout is necessary it only perpetuates the moral hazard problem, by absolving investment banks that financed long term securities with short term debt (and consequently found themselves facing liquidity issues) of their responsibility in this whole mess.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,12:55   

Quote (JAM @ Sep. 26 2008,09:28)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 25 2008,12:53)
Somewhat off-topic, Palin has one of the ugliest accents I've heard in a long time. Where the hell'd she get it? Is this a normal accent for white people in Alaska?

It's a Minnesota/Scandanavian accent, found throughout the Dakotas and into Montana and Idaho. It doesn't surprise me that it's common in Alaska too.

I noticed that when I watched her "Putin raises his head" interview -- it has some of that Fargo lilt, tho minus the usual charm that accent has.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,12:58   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 26 2008,12:55)
Quote (JAM @ Sep. 26 2008,09:28)

It's a Minnesota/Scandanavian accent, found throughout the Dakotas and into Montana and Idaho. It doesn't surprise me that it's common in Alaska too.

I noticed that when I watched her "Putin raises his head" interview -- it has some of that Fargo lilt, tho minus the usual charm that accent has.

It is funny you should mention "Fargo" because whenever I hear her voice, I imagine a cabinet meeting with her saying (a la Marge Gunderson) "I'm not sure I agree with you a hundred percent on your policy work, there, John. "

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 26 2008,19:42   

Quote (Amadan @ Sep. 26 2008,08:29)
Once again, the MSM twists things to distort their meaning.

That man sure do talk purty...

Truly he is eloquent, and I am in awe of his ability to express and capture the mood of America in sucint , pithy phrases that resonate deeply within all of us.

Thank you Amadan.  Thank you from the bottom of my heart.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 27 2008,15:46   

A lot of scandanavians settled along the pacific northwest coast, working as fishermen and loggers (depending on season), and the SW Alaska economy is based on the same.  Not sure if they settled in numbers in BC, would depend in part on immigration policy back in the late 1800s early 1900s.  There's a "Sons of Norway" lodge south of Astoria, OR for instance, prominently visible off the coast highway.

You can hear that sort of sing-songish lilting style of speech in Seattle's Ballard neighborhood ...

"I'M glad *I* live IN BalLARD."

If I did and were of scandanavian descent, that is.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 27 2008,16:44   

Quote (JAM @ Sep. 26 2008,11:27)
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 26 2008,10:07)
Taxing the rich is the Democrats' equivalent of the NRA and Right to Life.

I guess that's because you think that taxing the poor is a much better idea?

No, we have Lotto for that. Plus cigarette and vice taxes.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
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