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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 5, Return To Teh Dingbat Buffet< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,02:14   

Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 03 2014,03:39)
Quote
Creeping, the precursor to swimming and flying.

Not to mention crawling, walking, hopping, slithering, gliding, etc. I guess propulsion using flagella would count as swimming. Then there's also what squid and octopi do.

Henry

One gets the impression that Cardinal Focus would prefer to see people propelled by flagellation.

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,10:14   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 02 2014,12:17)
Paraquin
 
Quote
said with *tilt of his head to the left* *gentle eye-roll* *hint of a smile* *slight rise of the eyebrows* *dilation of the pupils*

I experienced it as a nervous tic motion of the head to the left. A nervous tic motion, of the what? Of the head to the left.

It's an established fact that nervous tics congregate around watermelon.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,13:00   

Quote
18
Barry ArringtonOctober 3, 2014 at 11:24 am
WD, I noticed that you’ve ignored my question at 13.


Oh Barry, please. When I answered your direct questions you didn't publish the answers (blessed art the censors). Now tell us some more about your morality...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,13:03   

Barry's giving lawyers a worse name.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,13:16   

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 03 2014,13:03)
Barry's giving lawyers a worse name.

..and debt collectors!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,14:22   

We need to find out what Dense O'Leary thinks about Michele Bachmann...

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,15:34   

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 03 2014,14:22)
We need to find out what Dense O'Leary thinks about Michele Bachmann...

Or Michelle Bachmann.  Her choice.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
khan



Posts: 1554
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,18:49   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 03 2014,11:14)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 02 2014,12:17)
Paraquin
   
Quote
said with *tilt of his head to the left* *gentle eye-roll* *hint of a smile* *slight rise of the eyebrows* *dilation of the pupils*

I experienced it as a nervous tic motion of the head to the left. A nervous tic motion, of the what? Of the head to the left.

It's an established fact that nervous tics congregate around watermelon.

POTW!

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
paragwinn



Posts: 539
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 03 2014,21:40   

Quote (khan @ Oct. 03 2014,16:49)
 
Quote (midwifetoad @ Oct. 03 2014,11:14)
 
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 02 2014,12:17)
Paraquin
     
Quote
said with *tilt of his head to the left* *gentle eye-roll* *hint of a smile* *slight rise of the eyebrows* *dilation of the pupils*

I experienced it as a nervous tic motion of the head to the left. A nervous tic motion, of the what? Of the head to the left.

It's an established fact that nervous tics congregate around watermelon.

POTW!

Now is that Joe G's Physical Observation of Ticks & Watermelons or just his Philosophy On Ticks & Watermelons?

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2014,18:24   

Breaking news: barry too dumb to know he's in over his head with a certain Mr. Shallit.

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2014,22:19   

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 04 2014,18:24)
Breaking news: barry too dumb to know he's in over his head with a certain Mr. Shallit.

It's like the folks who think "asdf" is secure enough to be their password.

"Whaddaya mean I've been hacked?"

There's plenty of tales of pseudo-random that failed to be random enough for the purpose at hand. Mr. Arrington would do well to back away from ignorant codswallop.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2014,23:03   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 04 2014,22:19)
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 04 2014,18:24)
Breaking news: barry too dumb to know he's in over his head with a certain Mr. Shallit.

It's like the folks who think "asdf" is secure enough to be their password.

"Whaddaya mean I've been hacked?"

There's plenty of tales of pseudo-random that failed to be random enough for the purpose at hand. Mr. Arrington would do well to back away from ignorant codswallop.

"___ would do well to back away from ignorant codswallop" pretty much describes every creationist, no?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
REC



Posts: 638
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2014,23:15   

Barry (from ignorance) shitting all over information theory, on an ID blog, has to be in the UD top ten.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2014,23:36   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 04 2014,20:19)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 04 2014,18:24)
Breaking news: barry too dumb to know he's in over his head with a certain Mr. Shallit.

It's like the folks who think "asdf" is secure enough to be their password.

"Whaddaya mean I've been hacked?"

There's plenty of tales of pseudo-random that failed to be random enough for the purpose at hand. Mr. Arrington would do well to back away from ignorant codswallop.

In that thread, Mark Frank said:

"Barry
You offer two definitions of random:

1) Proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern:

2) Of or characterizing a process of selection in which each item of a set has an equal probability of being chosen.

Shallit quite clearly says he us using definition (2) and shows that string 1 is more random than string 2. You even appear to accept it.
You then argue that he is mad because he didn’t use definition (1).  This seems a bit unreasonable given that he never pretended to use it. However, if you want to use that much less rigorous definition there are consequences for ID. If you define random as “Proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern:” then in order to determine if it is random you have to know whether it was created with aim, reason or pattern. So you can’t use it as a way of detecting aim, reason or pattern which seems to rule it out as a method of detecting design. If ID is to be useful then it has to present some mathematical method of examining a string without making any assumptions about why or how it was produced, for example the method Shallit used."

With those good points in mind, remember that the IDiots claim that ID methods (LOL) can reliably detect intelligent design (by 'yhwh-isho-holy-ghost' of course) without any prior knowledge of whatever it is that they're trying to determine was designed or not. In the case of the Hamlet quote, they couldn't use any prior knowledge of English, sentence structure, words, letters, punctuation, an alphabet, Shakespeare, Hamlet, etc. Arrington and the other IDiots see the Hamlet quote as not random only because they have prior knowledge of some or all of those things.

And has any IDiot ever pointed out anything that wasn't/isn't designed? How can they determine whether anything was/is designed or not when they believe everything was/is designed? Isn't it obvious that they believe there's no such thing as 'random' (at least according to definition 1)?

Edited by The whole truth on Oct. 04 2014,21:37

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2014,23:40   

Quote (REC @ Oct. 04 2014,23:15)
Barry (from ignorance) shitting all over information theory, on an ID blog, has to be in the UD top ten.

Barry's become more unhinged and pissy lately.Shame, I had reasonable email dialogue with him years ago. Maybe the stress of being the captain of a metaphorical Titanic takes it's toll?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
socle



Posts: 322
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,00:06   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 04 2014,23:40)
Barry's become more unhinged and pissy lately.Shame, I had reasonable email dialogue with him years ago. Maybe the stress of being the captain of a metaphorical Titanic takes it's toll?

I would bet that everytime he sees:
   
Quote
bornagain77

semi related:

he wants to shove an ice pick through his skull.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,00:16   

I want to add that christians cannot be christians if they accept or believe that something/anything is or could be random. According to the bible (the basis and rule book of christianity) 'God' is omnipotent, OMNISCIENT, OMNIPRESENT, omnibenevolent, and perfect. Nothing is or could be random if such a so-called 'God' created everything, knows about everything, watches over everything, has intent/purpose for everything, and controls everything. christianity does not allow 'random'. christianity requires 100% belief in intent and purpose, behind absolutely everything, throughout the entire 'creation'.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,00:17   

Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 04 2014,16:24)
Breaking news: barry too dumb to know he's in over his head with a certain Mr. Shallit.

This looks like the beginning of another "pledge allegiance or face the banhammer" loyalty oath.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,00:40   

In his latest screed, Barry Arrington makes a few odd comments. First, he says that "Jeffrey Shallit and I have been discussing the differences between a random string of text and a designed string of text." It's hard to see his indignant series of invective and complaints as any kind of "discussion;" he would need to substantively respond to Shallit's arguments for that. Here, for example, he is essentially conceding that Shallit is right but complains that the mathematician used a mathematical definition of "random" rather than reading his mind and using a lay definition, which Arrington finds objectionable (even though, as Frank points out, the lay definition is useless in a design-detection context). That's not a conversation, it's an angry man looking for an excuse to be angry about something.

Second, Arrington claims that as a lawyer he has some relevant expertise: "lawyers bring training in logic, reasoning and the evaluation of evidence issues to the table, and as this exchange demonstrates, that training can be useful in dissecting the ramblings of fundamentalists like Shallit."

In a word, no. I've heard this kind of posturing since law school, and it simply isn't true. Lawyers aren't automatically competent, much less experts, in "logic, reasoning and the evaluation of evidence." Law school spends surprisingly little time on those things, and an attorney only builds experience with them in practice if he uses them. Arrington doesn't seem to.

That's not a dig at his practice. Maintaining a solo practice for any length of time is a respectable accomplishment, and I do respect it. I wouldn't want to try it. But Arrington's practice seems to be small-scale bankruptcy work, and (according to his website, which like all firm websites is probably inflated) a little litigation on the side. Mom-and-pop litigation doesn't make someone an expert in "logic, reasoning and the evaluation of evidence."

The proof is in the pudding. Arrington's bitter complaint is about Shallit's use of the second definition in his dictionary. But the one he wants to use is the one that, as Frank pointed out, is useless for design detection: it assumes the absence of "aim, reason, or pattern." An expert in logic would have predicted this point, or at least have been able to respond to it. (Such an expert might also have wondered whether the fact that he created the "random" string in order to illustrate a point means that it was, in fact, "made [with] definite aim, reason, or pattern.")

There's nothing logical or reasonable about Arrington's response. Shallit made an interesting and valid point. Arrington's only response is to shriek about the definitions in his layperson's dictionary, posturing as if Shallit has made some awful faux pas, rather than responding on point and with an eye to the context of the discussion. It's just an excuse to pile invective on Shallit, without bothering to have an actual discussion.

It's not hard to see the reasoning behind Arrington's bilious complaints. An actual conversation, in which he listened to and responded to substantive points rather than endlessly complaining, would probably not end well. Shallit is, after all, an expert. Arrington does not have the training, patience, mental flexibility or temper to have an actual "discussion" about randomness with him. So he falls back on his lawyerin' credentials and relies on the results-oriented thinking of his fellow travelers to prevent anyone but the critics from pointing out that the blog-emperor is naked as well as raving.

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,09:18   

The whole  truth writes, "If you define random as “Proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern:” then in order to determine if it is random you have to know whether it was created with aim, reason or pattern. So you can’t use it as a way of detecting aim, reason or pattern which seems to rule it out as a method of detecting design. If ID is to be useful then it has to present some mathematical method of examining a string without making any assumptions about why or how it was produced, for example the method Shallit used."

This is the point of Aleta's example this morning, I believe.  In the absence of information about how something came to be, how can you tell whether something that looks like random gibberish might in fact be a representation of something that was designed with a certain purpose or aim?

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,09:43   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Oct. 05 2014,06:19)
Quote (stevestory @ Oct. 04 2014,18:24)
Breaking news: barry too dumb to know he's in over his head with a certain Mr. Shallit.

It's like the folks who think "asdf" is secure enough to be their password.

"Whaddaya mean I've been hacked?"

There's plenty of tales of pseudo-random that failed to be random enough for the purpose at hand. Mr. Arrington would do well to back away from ignorant codswallop.

Ha ASDF!!!

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,09:57   

Barry is a complete buffoon. He claims to be using the following as a definition of random: "“Proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern". Yet, on one hand he is saying that his first string is random by this definition, and he later says that he created this string by running his fingers over the keyboard in order to simulate a random string. This sounds like it is being produce with an aim and purpose in mind.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,10:01   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Oct. 05 2014,10:57)
Barry is a complete buffoon. He claims to be using the following as a definition of random: "“Proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern". Yet, on one hand he is saying that his first string is random by this definition, and he later says that he created this string by running his fingers over the keyboard in order to simulate a random string. This sounds like it is being produce with an aim and purpose in mind.

Barry is totally smarter than Jeffrey Shallit. He's not at all a complete idiot. :-)

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,10:56   

Funny that Barry with his objective morality and whatnot doesn't actually understand the thing he seeks to defend.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,11:01   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 05 2014,11:56)
Funny that Barry with his objective morality and whatnot doesn't actually understand the thing he seeks to defend.

Mr. Dunning is paging Ms. Krueger. Or vice-versa.

   
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,14:09   

Quote
Barry is totally smarter than Jeffrey Shallit. He's not at all a complete idiot. :-)

Some parts are missing?

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,14:24   

Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 05 2014,14:09)
Quote
Barry is totally smarter than Jeffrey Shallit. He's not at all a complete idiot. :-)

Some parts are missing?

Well, he's not enough of an idiot to come over here where he can't ban those who make him look stupid.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,16:01   

Quote
Well, he's not enough of an idiot to come over here where he can't ban those who make him look stupid.


But he is learning. He no longer announces when he bans somebody. Their comments just no longer appear.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 539
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,16:03   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 05 2014,12:24)
 
Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 05 2014,14:09)
 
Quote
Barry is totally smarter than Jeffrey Shallit. He's not at all a complete idiot. :-)

Some parts are missing?

Well, he's not enough of an idiot to come over here where he can't ban those who make him look stupid.

this little scene from the movie Young Frankenstein might-could hypothetically-possibly-allegedly be running through Arrington's head at the thought of coming here:
 
Quote
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Love is the only thing that can save this poor creature, and I am going to convince him that he is loved even at the cost of my own life. No matter what you hear in there, no matter how cruelly I beg you, no matter how terribly I may scream, do not open this door or you will undo everything I have worked for. Do you understand? Do not open this door.

Inga: Yes, Doctor.

Igor: Nice working with ya.

[Dr. Frederick Frankenstein goes into the room with The Monster. The Monster wakes up]

Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Let me out. Let me out of here. Get me the hell out of here. What's the matter with you people? I was joking! Don't you know a joke when you hear one? HA-HA-HA-HA. Jesus Christ, get me out of here! Open this goddamn door or I'll kick your rotten heads in! Mommy!

Now, is that pronounced "Arr-rington" or "Air-rington"?

--------------
All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Learned Hand



Posts: 214
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2014,16:26   

From News's recent post about PZ Myers' opinion about Dembski's appearance in Chicago:

"Why would evidence matter in a world where mind is an illusion? Isn’t the rule: First view to legislate others out of toleration wins? Isn’t that the only possible rule in such a case?"

I think News might be a bot, copying and pasting from a library of news articles and complaints without comprehension of either.

  
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