RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (36) < ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 ... >   
  Topic: From "LUCA" thread, Paley's Ghost can back up his assertions< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2005,06:55   

Quote
You'll have to pardon my tardiness in replies lately.  I often get bored by your condescending drivel.  But lately I'm also recovering from the removal of God's little gift to humans, the appendix.

 Sorry to hear about your surgery. I hope that you have a fast recovery.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2005,09:24   

Thanks, Paley.  I'm sure I'll be back in the saddle soon.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2005,09:34   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 02 2005,11:52)
Liberals had three full decades to make an impact, and boy did they ever. It's our turn now.

And boy are you ever.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2005,10:21   

Quote
Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 02 2005,11:52)
Liberals had three full decades to make an impact, and boy did they ever. It's our turn now.

And boy are you ever.

 With all due respect, having the Commander-in-Chimp representing us is like being told you've won the lottery, but are being paid in Monopoly money...........

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2005,13:16   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 02 2005,16:21)

 With all due respect, having the Commander-in-Chimp representing us is like being told you've won the lottery, but are being paid in Monopoly money...........

And, I'd be the first to admit that anyone who thinks the current administration is in any way implementing "conservative" policies is hallucinating.

But, what does any of this have to do with the original topic of this thread?

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2005,17:37   

Paley,

I'm catching a slight bit of energy, and I'd like to point out some aspects about your theory.  Rather than fill pages of text about it's problems, I'll just focus on a small aspect at a time.  In general, I have no problem with the equations or substititions that he made, although I cannot follow it that well due to some formatting errors in the written text.  An example is this:
Quote
the value of ƒàƒ|ƒn(Evolutionists, being basically stupid often need this explained to them.)
I guess I'm pretty dumb for not knowing what ƒàƒ|ƒn means.  I don't blame you of course, but I'd like for you to fix this eventually so dumb evos like me can follow.

My focus today will be on:
Quote
Of course, there are still a few unexplained parts in equation 10. Indeed, those of you who actually bothered to read the paper in question and find out the evolutionists who wrote it meant the equation to be applied to solids will dismiss my application of it to this kind of problem as utterly bogus, but that is just another evolutionistic presupposition, not a reality. The ether that fills empty space is the most perfect crystalline solid you could exist. Only the existentialist evolutionistic presupposition of ¡§nothingness¡¨ allows you to believe in a ¡§vacuum.¡¨
 I'm curious about the nature of your ether.  A perfect crystalline solid, eh?  My understanding of crystals is that they are ordered "atoms".  Table salt for example being a lattice of Na and Cl atoms, that generally are in a simple "every other" pattern.  What are the "atoms" of ether made of?  Can I hold a solid piece of ether in my hand?  If the ether isn't made of baryonic matter, how do we know that the 1976 paper applies to it?  If it is made of baryonic material, then can we make some in our particle accelerators?  What is the characteristic length scale of this crystal?  Wouldn't the axes of this crystal change as we pan our telescopes across the sky?  How do the stars get trapped in it?  Are the stars even made out of baryonic matter?  Is this the same as Michelson and Morley's ether?  (I'm assuming you'll claim they couldn't find any because the earth isn't moving afterall.)  Are there any independant tests we can make to see or demonstrate this ether?  Or is this just another unprovable conjecture on which your theory relies?

That's all I have for right now.

-Dan

  
scordova



Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2005,14:06   

Dear Ghost of Paley,


How in the world did I ever miss your postings!  This has been an enormously refeshing thread.  Today was the first time I've ever seen your postings.

I'm really enjoying your fine work.  I feel much humbled to see your intellect and humor shine through.  I may not agree with everything, but I enjoy reading your posts.

regards,
Salvador Cordova

  
scordova



Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2005,14:52   

Quote

Dan requested of the noble Reverend Paley:

Please, keep the self-aggrandizing and conspiracy theories to a minimum in the future.  I tire easily of unnecessary and unwarranted gloating


No, we want more, we want more.


Sal :D

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 03 2005,22:09   

Salvador

You do realise Mr Ghost of Paley is a parody, don't you?

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2005,11:54   

Quote
Salvador

You do realise Mr Ghost of Paley is a parody, don't you?

 Thanks, Mr. Fox, for giving a real-time example of the transition of an idea from speculation to settled fact. One of the few transitions, I note, that can be easily found in the Evo literature. :D
Quote
Quote  

Dan requested of the noble Reverend Paley:

Please, keep the self-aggrandizing and conspiracy theories to a minimum in the future.  I tire easily of unnecessary and unwarranted gloating



No, we want more, we want more.

 Oh, don't worry about that. I can tone down the sass upon request, but ain't no-one takin' away my right to say 2+2=4, even if he is a fellow Southerner, or his last name is.....O'Brien.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
scordova



Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2005,13:29   

Quote

You do realise Mr Ghost of Paley is a parody, don't you?


Even if he's a parody (which is only your hypothesis) he's more entertaining and brilliant and sensible than anything I've seen coming out of the ole Earth Darwinists when they're trying to be serious and logical.  Darwinists are perennially distasteful when they're trying to defend their theory, not really very well humored....

Even a slight parody of creationism is far superior to serious Darwinism (a joke trying to pretend to be a serious theory).   :D

Ah yes, Dembski's sublime writings, good for the soul.  Far superior to the plagerism Chuck committed against the creationist Blythe....

Sal

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2005,15:03   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 04 2005,17:54)
 Oh, don't worry about that. I can tone down the sass upon request, but ain't no-one takin' away my right to say 2+2=4, even if he is a fellow Southerner, or his last name is.....O'Brien.

Okay, but before this discussion goes completely off the rails: how are we doing with your accounting for the various astronomical observations I set out a few pages back? I'm waiting with bated breath...

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,00:10   

Mr The Ghost of Paley wrote, with that disarming irony
Quote
Thanks, Mr. Fox, for giving a real-time example of the transition of an idea from speculation to settled fact.


As with evolutionary theory, evidence accumulates with your every post to establish the theory beyond rational argument.

Salvador, you wrote

Quote
Even if he's a parody (which is only your hypothesis) he's more entertaining and brilliant and sensible than anything I've seen coming out of the ole Earth Darwinists when they're trying to be serious and logical.


I agree to the extent that Mr Paley does not lack wit or literary skill. Which is why I find it impossible to believe he is serious about geocentrism. By the way, are you still maintaining that Genetic-ID are employing techniques of "Intelligent Design" in their certification of gm-free plant material?

Cogzoid

I hope you can laugh and sneeze OK now. Having just had my prostate removed, I can empathise. But, looking on the bright side, forced recuperation at home for the next couple of weeks or so will allow endless opportunities to engage the rapier mind of Mr Paley.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,06:46   

Quote
Okay, but before this discussion goes completely off the rails: how are we doing with your accounting for the various astronomical observations I set out a few pages back? I'm waiting with bated breath...

 Yeah, I realise I've been slow to respond lately. I'll try to get something up tonight that addresses a few of the issues. Mr. Cordova will have to provide the fireworks for now....

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,09:56   

Quote
I guess I'm pretty dumb for not knowing what ƒàƒ|ƒn means.  I don't blame you of course, but I'd like for you to fix this eventually so dumb evos like me can follow.


Again, this is my fault. That symbol was supposed to be Pi. I will resolve the graphical issues in my posts that will explain it all.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
scordova



Posts: 64
Joined: Dec. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,10:27   

Quote

By the way, are you still maintaining that Genetic-ID are employing techniques of "Intelligent Design" in their certification of gm-free plant material?


You're phrasing of my position is inaccurate to the max.  It is symptomatic of a malady I see amongnst many deniers of design.  

I prescribe as medicine, a daily reading of the sublime works of Dembski and Berlinski.  Good medine for the soul.  It will clarify thy confused thinking.

When thou hast read Design Inference and No Free Lunch, I can then set you straight on your plentitudinous miscomprehensions of ID.


But you must own the books first.  You can do so by making combined donation to the wedge for $110.00




No Free Lunch for $35.00



and



Design Inference for $75.00

And if you can't fork up the money, I recommend fasting every week so you can save up to make the donations.  Fast and repent of Darwin, and you will see the light.  :)

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,10:31   

Quote
What is the characteristic length scale of this crystal?  Wouldn't the axes of this crystal change as we pan our telescopes across the sky?


The crystals are perfectly packed spheres differential is size. Since their distribution is uniform below the level of the firmament, the answer to your second question is no.

Quote
What are the "atoms" of ether made of?


They are made of qunitessence, of course. Differentially sized sized crystals provide a way to preserve the material structure of the universe, but also its continuiuty. My theory has finally settled the debate between the atomists and Aristotaliens. The material world is real, but still exhibits no disorder.

I hope this sheds some light on the overall evolutionism/intellegent design debate. Evolutionists think like their atomistic predecessors that matter moves randomly in an empty void until interacting with other randomly interacting matter. Intellegent design theorists (Plato and Aristotle belong in this category, despite not having access to the Bible.) responded by claiming that intellegence is necessary for the order and purpose in the universe, but failed to fully account for thge material world. (This is the source of the evolutionistic wailing that intellegent design is a "supernatural" explanation and can hence be dismissed.) My crystalline ether theory makes it possible for final causes to be made manifest in the material universe, for thought itself can move objects of differential size. I think this not only proves my own theory, but answers the only critque evolutionists ever really had.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,11:08   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 05 2005,12:46)
Yeah, I realise I've been slow to respond lately. I'll try to get something up tonight that addresses a few of the issues. Mr. Cordova will have to provide the fireworks for now....

For what it's worth, Bill, I don't think you're a parody. I do think you're an instigator who likes to rile people up, and I don't think you necessarily believe everything you say you believe. You certainly don't believe the entire universe revolves around the earth. I think you've hinted at your agenda earlier, which I still think is ill-conceived. But I'm very curious to see what your next substantive post will say...

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,11:19   

Quote
I prescribe as medicine, a daily reading of the sublime works of Dembski and Berlinski.  Good medine for the soul.  It will clarify thy confused thinking.


Ah! Maybe this is Bill himself shilling. Perhaps the fast-food trade is a liitle slow this time of year.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,14:09   

Sorry for the typos - I hit the "Add Reply" key when I meant to preview.
Quote
For what it's worth, Bill, I don't think you're a parody. I do think you're an instigator who likes to rile people up, and I don't think you necessarily believe everything you say you believe. You certainly don't believe the entire universe revolves around the earth. I think you've hinted at your agenda earlier, which I still think is ill-conceived. But I'm very curious to see what your next substantive post will say...[my emphasis]

Nooooooo!!!!!! Not this crap again. Eric, please don't play games like Hyperion. Just say what you mean - I promise I won't get offended.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,15:09   

Empirical support for the quintessence can be found here. Of course, my crystalline sphere has important multidimensional properties as well, but this should give a sample of my thinking:
Quote
Last year, while Kim was a graduate student, he and physicist Moses Chan used the can to squeeze ultracold helium into a crystalline solid that appears to flow without resistance--like a liquid with no viscosity. For decades physicists had mused about such a bizarre "supersolid," and others had searched for and failed to find it. So Kim and Chan's results have touched off a flurry of activity among experimenters and a debate among theorists as to whether it's even possible for a perfect crystal to flow. They are rejuvenating helium physics, a small field that has played a large role in shaping modern physics (see sidebar, p. 39).

   For more enlightenment, please consult this paper. I think the calculations are a bit crude, but it's a good starting point for my monograph, which will also use the concept of dipole moments to explain the n-body "gravitational" phenomenon. Given the relative magnitude of Coulomb forces to gravity, this approach should be fruitful, and my marriage of Bose to Maxwell will lead to the unification of all physics.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,17:07   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 05 2005,20<!--emo&:0)
Nooooooo!!!!!! Not this crap again. Eric, please don't play games like Hyperion. Just say what you mean - I promise I won't get offended.

I'm saying exactly what I mean. I don't think you're a parody (i.e., someone who believes evolution is a broadly accurate description of reality who is pretending to be a creationist, and someone who claims to be a geocentrist just to goad the scientists on this site), but I do think you're only claiming to believe the universe is centered on the earth, and you're using arguments supporting that belief as a stalking horse for another point entirely, i.e., that evolution is not as well-supported as, e.g., modern astrophysics and cosmology.

In other words, I don't think you're a parody, but I don't think you're necessarily being completely up-front about your beliefs. Which is fine; not intended as a criticism. I just think at times you're pulling our collective leg, as it were.

But I still want to hear your explanations for the various phenomena I pointed out. I see it as an exercise for your ingenuity. :-)

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,17:12   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 05 2005,21:09)
   For more enlightenment, please consult this paper. I think the calculations are a bit crude, but it's a good starting point for my monograph, which will also use the concept of dipole moments to explain the n-body "gravitational" phenomenon.

Busted link alert.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,17:18   

Completely off-topic: I was at Trader Joe's last night, and saw some Guacamole called "Avocado's Number." Supposedly it was made from the meat of only five avocados, though. Off by about 23 orders of magnitude, or a bit more than my estimate of the earth's mass using Bill's assumptions.

:-)

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2005,18:54   

Quote
The crystals are perfectly packed spheres differential is size. Since their distribution is uniform below the level of the firmament, the answer to your second question is no.
 Let me try to understand this.  The stars are caught in a perfect crystal of dark energy.  Of course, bringing quintessence into this only raises more questions.  First off, what do you mean by "their distribution is uniform below the level of the firmament"?  Don't be afraid of concise physics jargon, Paley.  I'm certainly not.  Do you mean these balls of quintessence are smaller than the Planck scale?  That's the only thing I can guess you meant from that statement.  Even if that is true, why wouldn't they still have a crystalline lattice with a particular structure?  Does it have the lattice of a diamond? table salt? or any of a myriad of other options?  Every crystal has axes.  Why would quintessence crystals be different?  Of course, I know the real reason they have to be.  Because you are afraid of proposing a theory with falsifiable consequences.

Quote
for thought itself can move objects of differential size.
experiment?

Quote
I think this not only proves my own theory, but answers the only critque evolutionists ever really had.
You're getting ahead of yourself, little breeches.  What proof?  You haven't even finished your theory.  Besides, I haven't even started with the critiques, my friend.

Quote
Empirical support for the quintessence can be found here. Of course, my crystalline sphere has important multidimensional properties as well
 I think you meant "Empircal support for super-fluid solids is here." Nothing is mentioned about quintessence.  Nothing at all.  The properties of baryons cannot be transferred to other forms of matter.  Not even fermions.  Why do you jump to the conclusion that your quintessence balls are described by Bose-Einstien statistics instead of Fermi-Dirac statistics, or an entirely different set of statistics all together?

You forgot some questions, Paley:
Quote
Can I hold a solid piece of ether in my hand?  If the ether isn't made of baryonic matter, how do we know that the 1976 paper applies to it?  If it is made of baryonic material, then can we make some in our particle accelerators?  What is the characteristic length scale of this crystal?  Wouldn't the axes of this crystal change as we pan our telescopes across the sky?  How do the stars get trapped in it?  Are the stars even made out of baryonic matter?  Are there any independant tests we can make to see or demonstrate this ether?  Or is this just another unprovable conjecture on which your theory relies?
You want to start with a clear theory, don't you?  You don't want to be accused of dodging honest questions about your theory.

So far, I've given you nothing but honest, straight questions about your theory, Paley.  I'll need you to flush it out more (and correct the previous formatting errors) before I can begin to critique it.

--Dan

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2005,06:24   

Quote
Busted link alert.

 And this after I checked the *&^%$ link twice. Let me try again:

A wavefunction describing superfluidity in a perfect crystal.  Zhai/Wu, 2005. Journal of Statistical Mechanics.
 
    This should also give the Cogzser something to chew over. More later.
Quote
[B]ut I do think you're only claiming to believe the universe is centered on the earth, and you're using arguments supporting that belief as a stalking horse for another point entirely, i.e., that evolution is not as well-supported as, e.g., modern astrophysics and cosmology.

In other words, I don't think you're a parody, but I don't think you're necessarily being completely up-front about your beliefs. Which is fine; not intended as a criticism. I just think at times you're pulling our collective leg, as it were.

 Not really, although I can see where you got that impression. Even if that had been my intention, it wouldn't have worked, since you and Cogzoid have admitted that you don't have any training in Evo biology. Now if P.Z. or Nick or Lilith had to retreat to sniping at my geocentrism, this would have established the paucity of support for Darwinism. But I'll stick to physics for now.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2005,07:38   

Quote
Do you mean these balls of quintessence are smaller than the Planck scale?  That's the only thing I can guess you meant from that statement.  Even if that is true, why wouldn't they still have a crystalline lattice with a particular structure?  Does it have the lattice of a diamond? table salt? or any of a myriad of other options?  Every crystal has axes.  Why would quintessence crystals be different?

Be careful about dichotomizing the universe into Apollonian baryons and Dionysian dark matter. My condensate aether, while baryonic in structure, possesses many properties that founder Darwin. For example, my condensate can slow light, fiddle with refractive indices, and thwart friction: these properties prevent your feeble attempts at pigeonholing. Of course, the traditional condensate is extremely temperature sensitive, which would seem to preclude its existence in a universe with appreciable background radiation, but I will show that this objection is quite specious. Y'all should feel grateful that I've blessed your board with Nobel-level physics.

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
ericmurphy



Posts: 2460
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2005,07:57   

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Dec. 06 2005,13:38)
Y'all should feel grateful that I've blessed your board with Nobel-level physics.

You know, Bill, statements like this put up everyone's crank-alerts. :-)

I suppose we should be flattered that a Nobel candidate would bother to visit our humble discussion group, but let's just say the likelihood of something like that actually happening are pretty slim. The chances that any Nobel candidate would really be a geocentrist are beyond slim. So—

A. You actually are a Nobel candidate, in which case I was right about you; or

B. You're not a Nobel candidate, but I was probably still right about you.

--------------
2006 MVD award for most dogged defense of scientific sanity

"Atheism is a religion the same way NOT collecting stamps is a hobby." —Scott Adams

  
The Ghost of Paley



Posts: 1703
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2005,08:03   

Quote
So—

A. You actually are a Nobel candidate, in which case I was right about you; or

B. You're not a Nobel candidate, but I was probably still right about you.

 
  Ahhhh.....an Evo prediction in full flower!  :D

--------------
Dey can't 'andle my riddim.

  
cogzoid



Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2005,08:33   

Something quick before I head out,

Quote
Be careful about dichotomizing the universe into Apollonian baryons and Dionysian dark matter.
I didn't dichotomize between the two.  I asked whether your dark matter is made of baryons or fermions or something new.

Quote
My condensate aether, while baryonic in structure, possesses many properties that founder Darwin.
Don't hide behind obfuscating language, Paley.  What does "baryonic in structure" mean?  Either the balls display Bose-Einstein statistics, or they don't.  And why is Darwin the constant measuring stick for a scientist.  All of this stuff was developed long after his death.  You might as well say "properties that founder Newton" as at least he was in the relevant field.

Quote
For example, my condensate can slow light, fiddle with refractive indices, and thwart friction: these properties prevent your feeble attempts at pigeonholing.
BECs aren't magic, Paley.  They are a straightforward product of the BE statistics in thermodynamics and stat mech.  The only pigeonhole preventer here is your deliberately obfuscating language.  (By design, I'm sure.)

Quote
Of course, the traditional condensate is extremely temperature sensitive, which would seem to preclude its existence in a universe with appreciable background radiation, but I will show that this objection is quite specious. Y'all should feel grateful that I've blessed your board with Nobel-level physics.
Citing Nobel-level physics is easy.  Understanding it and using it are entirely different beasts.  So far you've demonstrated that you know how to look things up, but your lack of understanding comes through in your exposition.  You clearly don't know what you are talking about.  And unfortunately for you, I'm not prone to having the physics wool pulled over my eyes.

You still have many questions that you need to address.

-Dan

  
  1058 replies since Aug. 31 2005,16:31 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (36) < ... 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 12 13 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]