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Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:51   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 31 2015,07:56)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,06:21)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 30 2015,22:29)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ Mar. 30 2015,21:59)
joey: Now wrt biology each nucleotide has 2 bits.

Truly someone who has no idea what's going on in biology.

Hey Joey, how many bits do you need to account for methylation? How many bits do you need to account for transvection? How many bits for histone modification?

Kevin, the bits pertain to the codons used to encode amino acids. Obviously you are just an ignorant ass.

I see, so they chemical states that determine whether a codon is expressed or not has nothing to do with the CSI of the organism.

That's like saying the organisation of silicon has nothing to do with a computer.

Interesting how that it's just the DNA that Joey thinks about. He doesn't care about expression... which is what makes the organism.

Like I said, clueless about biology.

Kevin- I explained myself. You ignored the explanation like the ignorant asshole that you are.

Nice job.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:52   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,09:48)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,08:39)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,18:02)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2015,13:59)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,12:29)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2015,12:25)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,11:31)
     
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2015,11:20)
Joe has been invited to talk about the entailments of 'guided' vs. 'unguided' evolution. He is afraid to talk in a venue where he can't control what is said. :D

And Richie fails to provide the entailments for unguided evolution.

Need your commitment to participate first ;)

You should have posted them already, Richie. I will participate- definitely.

Name those entailments for unguided evolution or admit that you can't.

Great.

So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Richie, If you don't understand what is being debated, even though you have been told many times, just shut the fuck up.

Either you can post the entailments for unguided evolution or you can't. We all know you can't so stop bluffing already and just admit it.

Calm down Joe. I believe you committed to participate? Both guided and unguided evolution have commonalities that will have the same entailments. It is therefore critical we isolate and explore the points of difference so we can where the entailments will be different. Defining terms and concepts is a good first step.

So stop with all this "you're scared" projection. Otherwise it looks like ID (or at least your version of it) has no positive argument and is simply anti-evolutionary flailings.

You are scared Richie. Otherwise you would have posted the entailments for unguided evolution and been done with it.

That you don't proves you don't have anything.

Not at all. I'm trying very hard to set out the framework of where "Guided" and "Unguided" differ - its you that refuses to participate. Fancy being productive or are you just going to be upset with the work of others like usual?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:53   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 31 2015,07:52)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,06:19)
Quote (The whole truth @ Mar. 30 2015,22:33)
Hey joey, have you calculated/measured the CSI in an aardvark? Not a definition of an aardvark.

If so, can you and will you show and compare the results of your calculation/measurement of the CSI in an aardvark to your calculations/measurements of the CSI in a flu virus, a cancerous cell, a maple tree, a carp, a gaur, allah, adam and eve, yourself, and a baboon? You have calculated/measured the 'CSI' in all of those things and much more, in your state of the art basement lab, haven't you?

Yes, an aardvark has CSI. The minimal living organism has CSI. And you still have nothing, not even a brain.

So that would be "no". You haven't done a single calculation other than one attempt to look at the definition of Aardvark.

If that definition was in German, would it have more or less CSI?

Fcuk you, Kevin. I did the calculation on the organism with the minimal genome. Itb has well over 500 bits of specified information. YOU are too stupid to understand anything. You are too much of a pussy to post any entailments for unguided evolution.

You are a pencil-neck geek

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:54   

And again, for Joe:

Quote
So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:55   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:52)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,09:48)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,08:39)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,18:02)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2015,13:59)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,12:29)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2015,12:25)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,11:31)
     
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 30 2015,11:20)
Joe has been invited to talk about the entailments of 'guided' vs. 'unguided' evolution. He is afraid to talk in a venue where he can't control what is said. :D

And Richie fails to provide the entailments for unguided evolution.

Need your commitment to participate first ;)

You should have posted them already, Richie. I will participate- definitely.

Name those entailments for unguided evolution or admit that you can't.

Great.

So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Richie, If you don't understand what is being debated, even though you have been told many times, just shut the fuck up.

Either you can post the entailments for unguided evolution or you can't. We all know you can't so stop bluffing already and just admit it.

Calm down Joe. I believe you committed to participate? Both guided and unguided evolution have commonalities that will have the same entailments. It is therefore critical we isolate and explore the points of difference so we can where the entailments will be different. Defining terms and concepts is a good first step.

So stop with all this "you're scared" projection. Otherwise it looks like ID (or at least your version of it) has no positive argument and is simply anti-evolutionary flailings.

You are scared Richie. Otherwise you would have posted the entailments for unguided evolution and been done with it.

That you don't proves you don't have anything.

Not at all. I'm trying very hard to set out the framework of where "Guided" and "Unguided" differ - its you that refuses to participate. Fancy being productive or are you just going to be upset with the work of others like usual?

Buy a dictionary and learn how to read.

I can see that you are bluffing, Richie. ALL you have to do is post the entailments for unguided evolution and then we can discuss them to see if they really are such entailments or not.

You are stalling because you are a bluffing bitch.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:56   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:54)
And again, for Joe:

Quote
So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Again, for Richie- make your case or admit that you are an ignorant asshole.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,09:58   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,09:56)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:54)
And again, for Joe:

 
Quote
So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Again, for Richie- make your case or admit that you are an ignorant asshole.

We have to set stage, Joe. I know you wouldn't want to be back-peddling, mind changing after the fact. Do you agree with what I posted so far? If not, what should we change?

Man up, you're embarrassing yourself.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:02   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:58)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,09:56)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:54)
And again, for Joe:

 
Quote
So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Again, for Richie- make your case or admit that you are an ignorant asshole.

We have to set stage, Joe. I know you wouldn't want to be back-peddling, mind changing after the fact. Do you agree with what I posted so far? If not, what should we change?

Man up, you're embarrassing yourself.

If you make your case, and it is a strong case, then how can I say anything but congratulations?

YOU are embarrassing yourself. But you do that on a daily basis so you don't care.

Make your case or shut up. I will participate once you make your case and have to defend it.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:04   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 31 2015,07:56)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,06:21)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 30 2015,22:29)
 
Quote (The whole truth @ Mar. 30 2015,21:59)
joey: Now wrt biology each nucleotide has 2 bits.

Truly someone who has no idea what's going on in biology.

Hey Joey, how many bits do you need to account for methylation? How many bits do you need to account for transvection? How many bits for histone modification?

Kevin, the bits pertain to the codons used to encode amino acids. Obviously you are just an ignorant ass.

I see, so they chemical states that determine whether a codon is expressed or not has nothing to do with the CSI of the organism.

That's like saying the organisation of silicon has nothing to do with a computer.

Interesting how that it's just the DNA that Joey thinks about. He doesn't care about expression... which is what makes the organism.

Like I said, clueless about biology.

Kevin, expression does not determine the type of organism that will develop. No one knows what makes an organism what it is. That is the main reason why universal common descent is untestable.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:05   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:02)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:58)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,09:56)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:54)
And again, for Joe:

   
Quote
So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Again, for Richie- make your case or admit that you are an ignorant asshole.

We have to set stage, Joe. I know you wouldn't want to be back-peddling, mind changing after the fact. Do you agree with what I posted so far? If not, what should we change?

Man up, you're embarrassing yourself.

If you make your case, and it is a strong case, then how can I say anything but congratulations?

YOU are embarrassing yourself. But you do that on a daily basis so you don't care.

Make your case or shut up. I will participate once you make your case and have to defend it.

Oh you're being silly. There's a lot of new and potentially ambiguous terminology. We need to firm things up - no point going to the end of teh line if we haven't agreed on the starting point, is there?

So let's return to what I posted. Are you okay with that or would you like to make changes?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:06   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 31 2015,08:02)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,02:17)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 30 2015,18:14)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,18:00)
 
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 30 2015,17:02)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,11:48)
   
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 29 2015,16:24)
I maintain that forensics is not an ID supporting system mainly because this is how an ID police force would work.

Officer: Yes ma'am, due to various calculations, we've determined that your husband was murdered.

Wife: Do you have any suspects.

Officer: Sorry ma'am, but we don't look for the murder, just determine that he was murdered.

Wife: Can I see your calculations, maybe I could give them to a private detective.

Officer: Sorry ma'am, but you wouldn't understand them.

Wife: Surely you can give them to me. Maybe someone else could understand them.

Officer: I already gave them to you.

Kevin, just because you are a lowlife loser who couldn't conduct an investigation if your life depended on it, doesn't mean everyone else is too.

You don't look for a murderer until you determine a murder has been committed. And most times that is all the forensics says. The detectives then go about using the forensics to find the murderer.

But then again you know forensics only from CSI shows...

True, you don't look for a murderer until you know a murder has been committed. Does this mean that you are finally admitting that design in nature is far from conclusive?

Biologists started looking for the mechanism behind evolution shortly after Darwin proposed his theory. Since then they have discovered genetics, mutation, meiosis and mitosis, genetic drift, neutral theory, antibiotic resistance, horizontal gene transfer, transcription, transposition, etc., et ., etc.

And ID has discovered ...??? FIASCO? good job.

Maybe you should stick to wavelength and frequency. You make more sense with these (none).

Unguided evolution cannot account for any of what biologists have found- well it can account for disease and deformities.

Transcription and translation alone are definitely evidence for ID. The genetic code is arbitrary and as such it is not reducible to physics or chemistry. Add alternative splicing, overlapping genes, proof-reading, error-correction and intelligent design in biology is as self-evident as the intelligent design of Stonehenge.

Even when given starting populations of prokaryotes you don't have a mechanism that can get beyond that.

Joey, you keep telling us what we don't have (even though we do) but you never tell us what creationism has. Please be specific. Please link us to the definitive theory. And the overwhelming evidence that supports this theory. And see if you can do this without using words like "asshole, fuck, moron, etc".  

You are now up to bat.

ID is not creationism. Obviously you are too fucked up to have a discussion.

I have provided all you ask for on my blog. It has a search feature. Today's post is a repost of positive evidence for ID.

A simple lie Joe lying liar.

Here is what the the L.A.W found....

Quote
We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are: (1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980's; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community. As we will discuss in more detail below, it is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research.

What an imbecile. The law didn't find anything. The law choked and listened only to ID's opponents and didn't listen to the ID experts. What kind of a lowlife loser does something like that?

The judge fell for a fucking literature BLUFF. How fucking stupid does someone have to be to do that?

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:06   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:05)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:02)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:58)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,09:56)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,09:54)
And again, for Joe:

   
Quote
So, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?

Again, for Richie- make your case or admit that you are an ignorant asshole.

We have to set stage, Joe. I know you wouldn't want to be back-peddling, mind changing after the fact. Do you agree with what I posted so far? If not, what should we change?

Man up, you're embarrassing yourself.

If you make your case, and it is a strong case, then how can I say anything but congratulations?

YOU are embarrassing yourself. But you do that on a daily basis so you don't care.

Make your case or shut up. I will participate once you make your case and have to defend it.

Oh you're being silly. There's a lot of new and potentially ambiguous terminology. We need to firm things up - no point going to the end of teh line if we haven't agreed on the starting point, is there?

So let's return to what I posted. Are you okay with that or would you like to make changes?

No, Richie, YOU are being silly and stupid and cowardly.

Make your case or shit up about it.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:08   

So Richie invites me here to watch him choke.

How wonderfully fun it has been. Come and get me when you actually have something to discuss, Richie.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:09   

So you're refusing to agree or disagree with:

Quote
o, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?


It seems normal that we should establish a common understanding before proceeding. I can't think of any good intended reasons not to. Come on Joe, be brave.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:11   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:09)
So you're refusing to agree or disagree with:

Quote
o, let's set the stage. Please feel free to correct anything you disagree with:

Your issue isn't with evolution, but the lack of "guidance".

So we have 2 competing conjectures (let's call them that for the sake of this) -

Guided
UnGuided

And these two conjectures should be different in their entailments.

Good so far?


It seems normal that we should establish a common understanding before proceeding. I can't think of any good intended reasons not to. Come on Joe, be brave.

Either unguided evolution has entailments or it doesn't.

Common understanding? With you?

Just make your case, asshole. That is all you have to do.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:12   

If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:31   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,18:06)
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 31 2015,08:02)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,02:17)
 
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 30 2015,18:14)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,18:00)
   
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 30 2015,17:02)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,11:48)
     
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 29 2015,16:24)
I maintain that forensics is not an ID supporting system mainly because this is how an ID police force would work.

Officer: Yes ma'am, due to various calculations, we've determined that your husband was murdered.

Wife: Do you have any suspects.

Officer: Sorry ma'am, but we don't look for the murder, just determine that he was murdered.

Wife: Can I see your calculations, maybe I could give them to a private detective.

Officer: Sorry ma'am, but you wouldn't understand them.

Wife: Surely you can give them to me. Maybe someone else could understand them.

Officer: I already gave them to you.

Kevin, just because you are a lowlife loser who couldn't conduct an investigation if your life depended on it, doesn't mean everyone else is too.

You don't look for a murderer until you determine a murder has been committed. And most times that is all the forensics says. The detectives then go about using the forensics to find the murderer.

But then again you know forensics only from CSI shows...

True, you don't look for a murderer until you know a murder has been committed. Does this mean that you are finally admitting that design in nature is far from conclusive?

Biologists started looking for the mechanism behind evolution shortly after Darwin proposed his theory. Since then they have discovered genetics, mutation, meiosis and mitosis, genetic drift, neutral theory, antibiotic resistance, horizontal gene transfer, transcription, transposition, etc., et ., etc.

And ID has discovered ...??? FIASCO? good job.

Maybe you should stick to wavelength and frequency. You make more sense with these (none).

Unguided evolution cannot account for any of what biologists have found- well it can account for disease and deformities.

Transcription and translation alone are definitely evidence for ID. The genetic code is arbitrary and as such it is not reducible to physics or chemistry. Add alternative splicing, overlapping genes, proof-reading, error-correction and intelligent design in biology is as self-evident as the intelligent design of Stonehenge.

Even when given starting populations of prokaryotes you don't have a mechanism that can get beyond that.

Joey, you keep telling us what we don't have (even though we do) but you never tell us what creationism has. Please be specific. Please link us to the definitive theory. And the overwhelming evidence that supports this theory. And see if you can do this without using words like "asshole, fuck, moron, etc".  

You are now up to bat.

ID is not creationism. Obviously you are too fucked up to have a discussion.

I have provided all you ask for on my blog. It has a search feature. Today's post is a repost of positive evidence for ID.

A simple lie Joe lying liar.

Here is what the the L.A.W found....

 
Quote
We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are: (1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980's; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community. As we will discuss in more detail below, it is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research.

What an imbecile. The law didn't find anything. The law choked and listened only to ID's opponents and didn't listen to the ID experts. What kind of a lowlife loser does something like that?

The judge fell for a fucking literature BLUFF. How fucking stupid does someone have to be to do that?

Not law Joe  LAW!!!!!!

You're whining is duely noted, DISMISSED NEXT CASE!

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:32   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:33   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 31 2015,10:31)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,18:06)
Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 31 2015,08:02)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,02:17)
 
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 30 2015,18:14)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,18:00)
   
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Mar. 30 2015,17:02)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 30 2015,11:48)
     
Quote (OgreMkV @ Mar. 29 2015,16:24)
I maintain that forensics is not an ID supporting system mainly because this is how an ID police force would work.

Officer: Yes ma'am, due to various calculations, we've determined that your husband was murdered.

Wife: Do you have any suspects.

Officer: Sorry ma'am, but we don't look for the murder, just determine that he was murdered.

Wife: Can I see your calculations, maybe I could give them to a private detective.

Officer: Sorry ma'am, but you wouldn't understand them.

Wife: Surely you can give them to me. Maybe someone else could understand them.

Officer: I already gave them to you.

Kevin, just because you are a lowlife loser who couldn't conduct an investigation if your life depended on it, doesn't mean everyone else is too.

You don't look for a murderer until you determine a murder has been committed. And most times that is all the forensics says. The detectives then go about using the forensics to find the murderer.

But then again you know forensics only from CSI shows...

True, you don't look for a murderer until you know a murder has been committed. Does this mean that you are finally admitting that design in nature is far from conclusive?

Biologists started looking for the mechanism behind evolution shortly after Darwin proposed his theory. Since then they have discovered genetics, mutation, meiosis and mitosis, genetic drift, neutral theory, antibiotic resistance, horizontal gene transfer, transcription, transposition, etc., et ., etc.

And ID has discovered ...??? FIASCO? good job.

Maybe you should stick to wavelength and frequency. You make more sense with these (none).

Unguided evolution cannot account for any of what biologists have found- well it can account for disease and deformities.

Transcription and translation alone are definitely evidence for ID. The genetic code is arbitrary and as such it is not reducible to physics or chemistry. Add alternative splicing, overlapping genes, proof-reading, error-correction and intelligent design in biology is as self-evident as the intelligent design of Stonehenge.

Even when given starting populations of prokaryotes you don't have a mechanism that can get beyond that.

Joey, you keep telling us what we don't have (even though we do) but you never tell us what creationism has. Please be specific. Please link us to the definitive theory. And the overwhelming evidence that supports this theory. And see if you can do this without using words like "asshole, fuck, moron, etc".  

You are now up to bat.

ID is not creationism. Obviously you are too fucked up to have a discussion.

I have provided all you ask for on my blog. It has a search feature. Today's post is a repost of positive evidence for ID.

A simple lie Joe lying liar.

Here is what the the L.A.W found....

 
Quote
We find that ID fails on three different levels, any one of which is sufficient to preclude a determination that ID is science. They are: (1) ID violates the centuries-old ground rules of science by invoking and permitting supernatural causation; (2) the argument of irreducible complexity, central to ID, employs the same flawed and illogical contrived dualism that doomed creation science in the 1980's; and (3) ID's negative attacks on evolution have been refuted by the scientific community. As we will discuss in more detail below, it is additionally important to note that ID has failed to gain acceptance in the scientific community, it has not generated peer-reviewed publications, nor has it been the subject of testing and research.

What an imbecile. The law didn't find anything. The law choked and listened only to ID's opponents and didn't listen to the ID experts. What kind of a lowlife loser does something like that?

The judge fell for a fucking literature BLUFF. How fucking stupid does someone have to be to do that?

Not law Joe  LAW!!!!!!

You're whining is duely noted, DISMISSED NEXT CASE!

Your shiteating is duly noted- call Campbells...

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:36   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:38   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:36)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

Fuck you, Richie. Post those entailments or admit that you can't.

Given your history this is all a coward's bluff. And you don't know what science is so shut up.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:42   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:38)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:36)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

Fuck you, Richie. Post those entailments or admit that you can't.

Given your history this is all a coward's bluff. And you don't know what science is so shut up.

Joe, you promised to participate, and your lack of participation is stopping us proceeding on the path to entailments. I'm eager to proceed, so do you agree with my initial statement or would you like to change things? Then (if you participate) we can move forward. No point in moving forward until we agree.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:47   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,18:32)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe here's one entailment you will understand. A) Because nested hierarchies are a feature of evolution B) Hippopotamuses are the nearest living land mammal to whales.


--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:52   

Hey Joe what's the Shannon entropy of a four letter alphabet?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:52   

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 31 2015,10:47)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,18:32)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe here's one entailment you will understand. A) Because nested hierarchies are a feature of evolution B) Hippopotamuses are the nearest living land mammal to whales.

Wagner, Darwin, Mayr and Denton all say the opposite. Evolution is too messy to produce a nested hierarchy. Transitional forms ruin a nested hierarchy.

Obviously you are a moron

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:53   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:42)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:38)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:36)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

Fuck you, Richie. Post those entailments or admit that you can't.

Given your history this is all a coward's bluff. And you don't know what science is so shut up.

Joe, you promised to participate, and your lack of participation is stopping us proceeding on the path to entailments. I'm eager to proceed, so do you agree with my initial statement or would you like to change things? Then (if you participate) we can move forward. No point in moving forward until we agree.

Post the entailments or shut up, Richie. You have the entailments of a bluffing coward.

Nice job.

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:54   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:42)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:38)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:36)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

Fuck you, Richie. Post those entailments or admit that you can't.

Given your history this is all a coward's bluff. And you don't know what science is so shut up.

Joe, you promised to participate, and your lack of participation is stopping us proceeding on the path to entailments. I'm eager to proceed, so do you agree with my initial statement or would you like to change things? Then (if you participate) we can move forward. No point in moving forward until we agree.

^^^  :)

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:54   

Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:53)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:42)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:38)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:36)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

Fuck you, Richie. Post those entailments or admit that you can't.

Given your history this is all a coward's bluff. And you don't know what science is so shut up.

Joe, you promised to participate, and your lack of participation is stopping us proceeding on the path to entailments. I'm eager to proceed, so do you agree with my initial statement or would you like to change things? Then (if you participate) we can move forward. No point in moving forward until we agree.

Post the entailments or shut up, Richie. You have the entailments of a bluffing coward.

Nice job.

Why won't you participate, Joe? What is there to be scared of?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:55   

Joe's cute when he name-drops.

  
Joe G



Posts: 12011
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 31 2015,10:59   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:54)
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:53)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:42)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:38)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:36)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Mar. 31 2015,10:32)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 31 2015,10:12)
If you prefer, you can spell out the differences between 'guided' and 'unguided' and I'll offer agreement or enhancements. It matters not to me, I just want to get this done rather than obfuscate.

The entailments for unguided evolution must already exist. All you need to do is find them and post them here.

That is all you have to do. the entailments flow from the theory- oops there isn't one for unguided evolution!

Stop stalling and start posting the entailments for unguided evolution. Make your case.

That is all you have to do. Anything else is a distraction.

Joe, given your history I think its important we build this up step by step. Plus, others may not be as familiar with terms (that may be unique to you) as you are. Agreeing with or changing what I wrote is uncontentious, I'm obviously very open to discussion.

You also promised to participate, and you aren't. That's disappointing. I thought ID folks were 'pro science'.

Fuck you, Richie. Post those entailments or admit that you can't.

Given your history this is all a coward's bluff. And you don't know what science is so shut up.

Joe, you promised to participate, and your lack of participation is stopping us proceeding on the path to entailments. I'm eager to proceed, so do you agree with my initial statement or would you like to change things? Then (if you participate) we can move forward. No point in moving forward until we agree.

Post the entailments or shut up, Richie. You have the entailments of a bluffing coward.

Nice job.

Why won't you participate, Joe? What is there to be scared of?

Don't be scared, Richie, post those promised entailments!

--------------
"Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton

Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD

YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

   
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