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  Topic: A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin, As big as the poop that does not look< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,19:16   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 17 2015,18:43)
It is not a model for doing actual science.

Since you are the one accusing PBS "Dinosaur Train" of teaching junk-science it's now up to you to explain your reasons for why in science a hypothesis is not actually "an idea you can test".

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,19:19   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,19:16)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 17 2015,18:43)
It is not a model for doing actual science.

Since you are the one accusing PBS "Dinosaur Train" of teaching junk-science it's now up to you to explain your reasons for why in science a hypothesis is not actually "an idea you can test".

Sure.  Right after you answer my questions.  No dodging.  No evading.  No whining.  Don't be a coward, Gary.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,19:30   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 17 2015,18:43)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,17:28)
   
Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 17 2015,16:07)
I love it when Gary gets his science from cartoons made for pre-schoolers.

A statement like that indicates that you are extremely deceptive. It's hard to believe you are a US public school science teacher. You must be trying to make them look stupid.

Gary, that show is made for children. Many of the children in the target demographic haven't learned how to read.  I've actually watched most of that series with my children.  It's a good show; for preschoolers. It simplifies a number of concepts for small children. It is not a model for doing actual science.

But perhaps you can explain to us the scientific accuracy of the following:

A T-Rex raised by a family of Pteranodons.  
Talking dinosaurs.
A train run by dinosaurs.
A dinosaur conductor that wears clothes.
The train run by dinosaurs can travel under water.
The train run by dinosaurs can travel through time.
The train run by dinosaurs can travel through time, and does so as a tourist attraction.

Please explain how all of the above are evidence that PBS's children's cartoon "Dinosaur Train" is such an accurate source of information that it should be considered more reliable than actual scientists when it comes to how science works.  Please be specific.

All true, but note in addition that Gary's nonsense doesn't even qualify as a scientific hypothesis under a definition drastically oversimplified enough to be understandable by preschoolers.  His stuff is not testable, because his critical terms are a mess and because he lacks operational definitions.

Also note that a very bright six-year-old who pays attention during Barney's lesson might conceivably understand why an idea is not testable, while Gary still misses the boat.

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,19:59   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,19:16)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 17 2015,18:43)
It is not a model for doing actual science.

Since you are the one accusing PBS "Dinosaur Train" of teaching junk-science it's now up to you to explain your reasons for why in science a hypothesis is not actually "an idea you can test".

The Barney clip is clearly about introducing the word hypothesis, rather than a lot of details about how to use them, and how to create them and test them.

Hypotheses need to be testable if they are to be of any use, but that's far from all you need to know about hypotheses.

A standard scientific approach is as follows: once you have a topic of interest, learn as much as you can about it: read all the literature and understand all the fundamentals, and then all the complications and peculiar details, and all the pertinent methods.  Next, make sure that you have clear definitions for all the key concepts, because without clear and correct terminology, your thinking cannot be clear and correct.  Next, think up as many alternative, mutually exclusive, possible explanations for the phenomenon of interest as you can, and devise feasible and logically valid ways to choose between the various hypotheses (if A is true, then we should see X, but if B is true then we should see Y).  Obtain the information necessary to choose between the alternatives, probably by observation and/or experiment.  Write up the results, as clearly as possible, and publish them.

The Oxford English Dictionary defines the scientific method as “systematic observation, measurement, and experimentation, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.”  Sean Carroll describes it very neatly as (paraphrased), ‘Think of every possible way the world could be - those are your hypotheses. Either before or after, look at how the world actually is - that’s your evidence, your data.  Where possible, choose the hypothesis that provides the best fit to the data.’  Phil Plait says, “Watch the universe, see how it behaves, make guesses about why it’s doing what it’s doing, and then try to think of ways to support or disprove those ideas” and trying to figure out the ways we might be wrong is the best way to improve.

Add to all this that your problem and your hypotheses need to be interesting and non-trivial as well as testable and logically valid if they are to be of any value.  ("I have an hypothesis that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning"; 12 hours later: "Yay, me!".  Worse, "I have an hypothesis that angels will lift the sun into the eastern sky tomorrow to frighten away the Night Devil; 12 hours later, "Yay, me".  Approximately as bad but for different reasons: "I have an hypothesis that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.")

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,20:42   

It's been too long since I last complained about Gary's use of "undirected".  "Undirected" is a slippery and problematic word.  Trivially, natural selection is not directed by an external intelligent director or designer.  However, an Intelligent Designer is also undirected in that sense (absent a Senior Designer tasking a Junior Designer to go and create life on Earth).  On the other hand, natural selection is in a sense guidance or direction imposed by nature, as it constitutes feedback from nature about whether or not mutations and their various recombinations can contribute directly or indirectly to successful reproduction by the organism.  If the environment or the ecology is changing somewhat consistently in a particular direction or if a particular problem persists and a lineage continues to become better adapted to resolve that problem, then evolution and natural selection exhibit direction.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,20:52   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,17:40)
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 17 2015,17:21)
Quote
And somehow you managed to ignore the fact that the result of the incredibly expensive effort still turned out to be a big yawn in cognitive science. More like beginners work we have already seen before so many times it's not even news anymore:

No, I caught that.  However, we haven't seen work of this quality before, which is mostly why it is news, along with the unprecedented degree and originality of their ground-truthing.

Who is "we"? The UK citizenry?

And I have to add that I don't want to rain on your parade. I'm happy that at least that was accomplished.

The problem is with the UK headline news hoopla that makes it seem like UK scientists solved the great puzzle of cognitive science therefore no more work needs to be done, all other models including mine are no longer needed.

I was recently sharing ideas with someone who introduced their navigation related neural network models at the Kurzweil AI forum:
http://www.kurzweilai.net/forums....est-1-2

As can be seen from the discussion the more conventional models compliment and complement the model I have that expects being able to have high confidence fun chasing food around a shock zone arena that would curl your hair. What you are applauding has a place for it accounted for in the circuit, but these days that part alone does not make a model to get excited about. What has at least some of us experimenting onward has Sal working on it too, and I still not even explain the new illustration that appears to have a singularity of some kind at the end to those who get excited by that sort of hive-mind thing.

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 17 2015,22:26   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,20:52)
The problem is with the UK headline news hoopla that makes it seem like UK scientists solved the great puzzle of cognitive science therefore no more work needs to be done, all other models including mine are no longer needed.

For gosh sake, Gary, you are griping about a headline in a news report.  Don't you know enough to ignore media headlines when they are covering science, and to take anything about science in the popular press with a grain of salt?

The article does not make it seem as though UK scientists had solved the problem of the brain, and that no more work is needed.  However, for some reason none of the news reports mentioned your work.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,00:15   

Which features of the universe?
How do you know?
What justifies selecting this feature rather than that feature as 'best explained by intelligent cause'?

Stop being a coward and answer the questions, gary.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,09:08   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,20:52)
As can be seen from the discussion the more conventional models compliment and complement the model I have that expects being able to have high confidence fun chasing food around a shock zone arena that would curl your hair.

Another random assemblage of words.

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Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,09:22   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Oct. 18 2015,09:08)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 17 2015,20:52)
As can be seen from the discussion the more conventional models compliment and complement the model I have that expects being able to have high confidence fun chasing food around a shock zone arena that would curl your hair.

Another random assemblage of words.

But he does seem to be getting better at not throwing in as many random commas, hyphens, and "here's"!

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,15:58   

In case anyone else missed this must-read:

The Social Life of Genes
http://www.psmag.com/books-a....s-64616

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,16:32   

And I need to mention that whether the insect trace that is now at the Springfield Science Museum is a camel spider or not is being challenged.

It previously seemed like there was no way it could be anything else, but apparently not.



--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,19:05   

Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 17 2015,22:26)
The article does not make it seem as though UK scientists had solved the problem of the brain, and that no more work is needed.

You switched to the article I complemented, for not being written like another snake-oil sales pitch like the one in the opening post was. The headline out of the UK that I was disgusted by claimed quote:
Scientists make accurate, working recreation of a brain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news.......76.html

You should not be trying to make it seem like there is nothing wrong with the articles claiming that and more. Media circus driven science is easy to brush off as just the way it is when you're the one who is benefiting from its deception.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,19:36   

Nice trackways.  Again, thanks for making them accessible to scientists.

   
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 18 2015,19:05)
     
Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 17 2015,22:26)
The article does not make it seem as though UK scientists had solved the problem of the brain, and that no more work is needed.

You switched to the article I complemented, for not being written like another snake-oil sales pitch like the one in the opening post was. The headline out of the UK that I was disgusted by claimed quote:
Scientists make accurate, working recreation of a brain
http://www.independent.co.uk/news.......76.html

You should not be trying to make it seem like there is nothing wrong with the articles claiming that and more. Media circus driven science is easy to brush off as just the way it is when you're the one who is benefiting from its deception.

Jesus, Gary, I never said anything like that.  Please read more carefully before jumping off into unfounded charges.  I said you should have learned by now not to trust newspaper headlines about science, nor even the articles or press releases, without checking the article.  The headline is indeed overblown, which is unacceptable, but sadly that's standard.  I'm not saying the headline is okay, nor am I apologizing for it.  News coverage of science has a long tradition of being really crappy.

Now, regarding the UK scientists.  You said,  
Quote
You end up applauding hype that makes it seem like the UK project already discovered all the secrets of the brain
and  
Quote
The problem is with the UK headline news hoopla that makes it seem like UK scientists solved the great puzzle of cognitive science
and I said it didn't say that, in reference to all the sources that you cited.  I read both articles and I cited the more detailed one for its additional details.  The longer one mentions UK scientists as part of the international team, but is clear that the research is Swiss and is not a British effort.  The first article (the one you just cited again in support of your claim that an article credited UK scientists) does not even mention scientists from the UK, so once more, read more carefully.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,20:33   

Quote (N.Wells @ Oct. 18 2015,19:36)
I said you should have learned by now not to trust newspaper headlines about science, nor even the articles or press releases, without checking the article.

I know that!

Most others just see or recall the headline. In another UK news mill you got a bogus headline for free but had to pay to see the article.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,21:55   

This F-bomb filled video might help explain what is going on in the UK!

Reporter gets angry and tells us the REAL news
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syjp9lsWBhc

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
dazz



Posts: 247
Joined: Mar. 2015

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,22:06   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,04:55)
This F-bomb filled video might help explain what is going on in the UK!

Reporter gets angry and tells us the REAL news
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syjp9lsWBhc

He's a comedian, you retard.

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 18 2015,22:12   

Quote (dazz @ Oct. 18 2015,22:06)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,04:55)
This F-bomb filled video might help explain what is going on in the UK!

Reporter gets angry and tells us the REAL news
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syjp9lsWBhc

He's a comedian, you retard.

I know. It's explained right below the video.

Satirists are good at reporting something going on, without getting themselves in too much trouble for being too truthful.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2015,07:21   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,06:12)
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 18 2015,22:06)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,04:55)
This F-bomb filled video might help explain what is going on in the UK!

Reporter gets angry and tells us the REAL news
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syjp9lsWBhc

He's a comedian, you retard.

I know. It's explained right below the video.

Satirists are good at reporting something going on, without getting themselves in too much trouble for being too truthful.

In your case Gary you achieve exactly the same without the slightest hint of humor. How's your Nobel application going, have you filled out the forms and paid the deposit yet?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2015,11:37   

He's too busy eating a glamonche.

(Some of us will get it)

Whatta hoot!!!!!!!

:)  :)  :)

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2015,19:12   

Quote (k.e.. @ Oct. 19 2015,07:21)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,06:12)
 
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 18 2015,22:06)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,04:55)
This F-bomb filled video might help explain what is going on in the UK!

Reporter gets angry and tells us the REAL news
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syjp9lsWBhc

He's a comedian, you retard.

I know. It's explained right below the video.

Satirists are good at reporting something going on, without getting themselves in too much trouble for being too truthful.

In your case Gary you achieve exactly the same without the slightest hint of humor. ......

Did I not humor you with the UK news reporter going bonkers satire? That one kept me laughing for a good ten minutes.

The problem does not take us to a drama over whether the money was well spent, it probably was. The drama was in how internet news sources (especially UK) went amok in a competition for a headline that is the most sensational of all. Giving the REAL NEWS would not start off by saying that for a headline, but really REAL NEWS does not lure in an audience, therefore up in the ivory towers it is BAD to report any of that.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2015,19:46   

This was flagged as spam by Robert Dekko, one of the kids trying to plant a flag for Atheism at the NCSE blog:

 
Quote

Hey Frank, I'm not Michael Behe. He is not here.

The theory explaining what the designer did, where when and how, is included in the latest ID Lab computer model:
sites.google.com/site/intelligencedesignlab/home/IDLab5Screen.png

intelligencegenerator.blogspot.com/

If you need a second opinion for how an intelligent designer's "RAM" works then Salvador Cordova might discuss it with you here:

Repetitive DNA and ENCODE
theskepticalzone.com/wp/repetitive-dna-and-encode/

If you need to discuss any of this with a number of experts in related fields of science then the best place to find them is still where I go:
www.kurzweilai.net/forums/profile/gary-s-gaulin

In regards to religion you're on your own. But if you want to discuss the mutually contradictory literal interpretations of Genesis then the science minded Evolutionary Creationists are at BioLogos:
biologos.org

And the BioLogos for ID became Uncommon Descent, where you can now freely talk religion until the cows come home. Science does not care:
www.uncommondescent.com/


Still working link, for at least now:
https://disqus.com/home.......5802411

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2015,20:33   

He's right, Gary, it was spam. Your entire output is spam.

But you forgot to post your parting shot....
   
Quote
They just talk trash that is not even true like science journals reject me, have my replies hidden or deleted, and get away with it. I'm outta here!

....which is complete gibberish.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2015,21:56   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 20 2015,03:12)
Quote (k.e.. @ Oct. 19 2015,07:21)
 
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,06:12)
 
Quote (dazz @ Oct. 18 2015,22:06)
   
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 19 2015,04:55)
This F-bomb filled video might help explain what is going on in the UK!

Reporter gets angry and tells us the REAL news
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syjp9lsWBhc

He's a comedian, you retard.

I know. It's explained right below the video.

Satirists are good at reporting something going on, without getting themselves in too much trouble for being too truthful.

In your case Gary you achieve exactly the same without the slightest hint of humor. ......

Did I not humor you with the UK news reporter going bonkers satire? That one kept me laughing for a good ten minutes.

The problem does not take us to a drama over whether the money was well spent, it probably was. The drama was in how internet news sources (especially UK) went amok in a competition for a headline that is the most sensational of all. Giving the REAL NEWS would not start off by saying that for a headline, but really REAL NEWS does not lure in an audience, therefore up in the ivory towers it is BAD to report any of that.

So you still haven't sent off your Nobel prize application?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2015,10:24   

He hasn't gotten to the bottom of the box of Cracker Jack, yet.  

Whatta hoot!!!!!!!!!!!  :)  :)  :)

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2015,16:11   

Biologists discover bacteria communicate like neurons in the brain
http://m.phys.org/news.......in.html

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The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2015,16:22   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 21 2015,17:11)
Biologists discover bacteria communicate like neurons in the brain
http://m.phys.org/news.......in.html

Relevance to your work?
Exactly none.

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2015,21:10   

Quote (NoName @ Oct. 22 2015,00:22)
Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 21 2015,17:11)
Biologists discover bacteria communicate like neurons in the brain
http://m.phys.org/news.......in.html

Relevance to your work?
Exactly none.

....erm, well other than Gary's brain is bacteria.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
GaryGaulin



Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2015,06:42   

Quote (Woodbine @ Oct. 19 2015,20:33)
But you forgot to post your parting shot....

I slammed the door a bunch of times. Now it like fell off its hinges:

http://ncse.com/blog.......0608857

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

   
NoName



Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2015,06:47   

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Oct. 22 2015,07:42)
Quote (Woodbine @ Oct. 19 2015,20:33)
But you forgot to post your parting shot....

I slammed the door a bunch of times. Now it like fell off its hinges:

http://ncse.com/blog.......0608857

You've been off your hinges for years.

And still off-topic.

  
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