Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Kent Hovind on tape

Posted: Feb. 15 2007,16:13

Here are Kent's taped phone conversations from jail.

http://atheistexperience.blogspot.com/2007....om.html

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Posted: Feb. 15 2007,16:16

uh, before one even lends an ear, is this one of those "guranteed to cause brain cell death" kinda things?

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GCT

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Posted: Feb. 15 2007,18:09

Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 15 2007,17:16)

uh, before one even lends an ear, is this one of those "guranteed to cause brain cell death" kinda things?

Quite possibly yes.

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Posted: Feb. 15 2007,18:27

see?

now that's the kinda honesty creobots just can't deliver.

;)

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Dr.GH

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Posted: Feb. 15 2007,19:55

What I want is the sentencing hearing transcript!

The phone calls convinced me that Hovind is actually insane. He wasn't faking, it was not just a con-job, he is utterly insane. :O

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J-Dog

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Posted: Feb. 15 2007,20:28

I would like to know what DaveScot's take is on this...
Martyer For The Cause?
Another Dembski Disciple?
Tax Cheatin' Poltroon?
Just another Bozo in the Big Tent?

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"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank

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Posted: Feb. 15 2007,20:29

So, is it a "woe is me" speech, or a "I'm locked up with all these evilutionists" speech, or a "send me your money" speech, or a "the Zionist Occupation Government got me!" speech, or a "how I'm helping these poor men to Jaysus" speech, or a "something really hurts down there" speech, or what?

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BWE

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,07:47

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA . I'm sorry. That just came out. I listened to them. If you enjoy laughing at people like him, you will like these recordings.

By the way, OT, did someone make a post using my account a couple of weeks ago? Does anyone know where that might be? One of my many night shifts that turned into late morning maybe?

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The Daily Wingnut

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,11:53

Quote

So, is it a "woe is me" speech, or a "I'm locked up with all these evilutionists" speech, or a "send me your money" speech, or a "the Zionist Occupation Government got me!" speech, or a "how I'm helping these poor men to Jaysus" speech, or a "something really hurts down there" speech, or what?

All of those arguments at once, PLUS THE KICKER:

�If they let me out of prison, I shall forgive them [the IRS].� *Strikes pose* �But if they don�t let me out of here [and I must say I detected a bit of, �Lemme outa here! Lemme the #### outa here!�], I shall go after them. I�ll sue them. Again. One for every little mistake they�ve made, and they�ve made a lot of mistakes!� *Shakes fist* [Yeah, the IRS really loused it up Hovie, and that�s why you�re in the clink. Right.] �But if I don�t get outa here [ �Lemme outa here! Waahh!] I�m going after them, blah� yakkity-yak.

What a deluded nincompoop.

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deadman_932

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,16:08

8 years and 6 months or so for Hovind to ponder this turn of events -- 540 days maximum "good time" with no earlier parole available at the Fed level, unless he gets a Bush pardon or some such thing. I expect ol' Kent to display a wide range of emotions before it's all over. What I really hope for is acknowledgement of wrongdoing and just a touch of genuine contrition.
But, like Doc G.H. posted, I also don't think Hovind's sane: he's convinced himself of his own delusions. Reminds me of AFDave, really.

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,16:22

indeed, the patterns are very similar, but not just for these two.

again, this keeps bringing me back to this whole creobotism thing being more related to psychology than religion.

religion is just "the enabler", for the underlying psychological malady.

I keep scanning for sites that are looking into researching this aspect of it, but it appears there is little indication anyone witn a science blog is considering the issue on that level consistently (oh, there is brief recognition from time to time, but no consistent attempts to examine the issue from that perspective).

Unfortunate, as an approach that really looks at the underlying causation will be the only real productive way of approaching a solution in the long term, IMO.

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,16:56

I have been doing a lot of thinking about that, actually. (I got hammered at Pharyngula of all places for suggesting that creationism, not religious beliefs, was an indication of a neurotic disorder��I wouldn�t say they�re crazy!��well, that�s not what I said.)

I remember a study done with subjects who held racist ideas: they were asked to look at a series of slides in which there were drawings of cats that gradually �morphed� into drawings of dogs. Those who held firm racist attitudes would insist that the drawing that was clearly of a dog was a �cat.� I thought of this again when a friend of mine, a prominent atheist in the Twin Cities who goes and speaks at Bible colleges about evolution, science, religion, etc., talked last night of showing the students examples of transitional fossils, and they insist that they still �don�t see it.�

Yes, there�s definitely a huge psychological component to this. After my talk on learning behaviors I got so many new ideas from the class discussion that I�d love to test the idea further, specifically regarding students learning about evolution. (I just don't know when I could find time to do it, however.)

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,17:10

yeah, you watch guys like Airhead Dave long enough, and you begin to see the self-reinforcing delusions common to people suffering from schizophrenia.

I don't think it's just a coincidence.

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,17:14

Quote (BWE @ Feb. 16 2007,08:47)

By the way, OT, did someone make a post using my account a couple of weeks ago? Does anyone know where that might be? One of my many night shifts that turned into late morning maybe?

I think it was on Avo's thread.

BWE

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,17:52

Found it. Er. I feel pretty drn sheepish.

The lady who wrote that has also written a few other things. Er, published in other places. Not as me. Although, I can dream. Guess I need to remember to shut down my computer when I'm not there.

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Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
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The Daily Wingnut

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Posted: Feb. 16 2007,23:17

About those psychological factors: this (via EBSCO) is pretty darn weird.

Quote

Interhemispheric interaction and beliefs on our origin: Degree of handedness predicts beliefs in creationism versus evolution. �Niebauer, Christopher Lee; Christman, Stephen D.; Reid, Scott A.; Laterality: Asymmetries of Body, Brain and Cognition, Vol 9(4), Oct 2004. pp. 433-447.

It's available as a PDF. I don't know what I think of a supposed correlation between strong "handedness" and creationism, although it would perhaps explain all those engineers, and...

...well, it would also explain how Hovie's spending most of his time in prison. �

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

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Posted: Feb. 17 2007,00:29

Did you happen to catch that twin study looking at heritability of "extreme religious behavior" (read: fundamentalism) that was published a couple years back?

I can dig up the reference for you if you are interested.

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Posted: Feb. 17 2007,11:34

Yeah, if you can get me the citation, I would definitely be interested.

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Posted: Feb. 17 2007,15:27

this includes the reference, and the original discussion of the paper on PT:

http://www.pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/03/genes_contribut.html

here's the link to the abstract in pubmed:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez....bstract

If you want to get an intro to the field of evo psych, I found this site useful:

http://www.psych.ucsb.edu/research/cep/index.html

You will find just as much friction to it now, as Lewontin generated in the early days of sociobiology.

true enough, just like with early sociobiology, evo psych also makes some mistaken assumptions IMO (as well as a seeming lack of knowledge of the history of ethology at times), but the application of evolutionary theory to human behavior has been (and will continue to be) a productive approach.

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Posted: Feb. 20 2007,10:52

Thanks a bunch, Ichthyic.

I was able to pull the PDF of the original article from Journal of Personality via your link (and as it turns out I have heard of this study).

I'll check out the evo psych link too. I'm iffy about that stuff, although as long as their methodology is sound I�m open to it.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

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"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Stephen Elliott

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Posted: Feb. 20 2007,11:40

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 16 2007,16:56)

I have been doing a lot of thinking about that, actually. (I got hammered at Pharyngula of all places for suggesting that creationism, not religious beliefs, was an indication of a neurotic disorder��I wouldn�t say they�re crazy!��well, that�s not what I said.) ;)

My experiences of religion where all fun, boring or comforting until I started on this little adventure.

It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.

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Posted: Feb. 23 2007,21:38

http://www.apa.org/monitor/apr04/beliefs.html

yeah, it's a few years old.

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"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,07:00

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 20 2007,11:40)

It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.

Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing.

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Alan Fox

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,08:45

Quote

I don't think it's just a coincidence.

Quote

It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.

Quote

Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing.

It is the people, not the ideas, that need watching. When "Communism fell" many apparatchiks moved seamlessly into the emerging "democratic" parties. Now ID is fatally damaged, opportunists will attempt to exploit another vehicle for their ambitions. Hopefully, the global warming issue will not turn out to be such a vehicle.

Plus �a change...

Stephen Elliott

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,14:20

Quote (Alan Fox @ Feb. 24 2007,08:45)

Quote

I don't think it's just a coincidence.

Quote

It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.

�

Quote

Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing.

It is the people, not the ideas, that need watching. When "Communism fell" many apparatchiks moved seamlessly into the emerging "democratic" parties. Now ID is fatally damaged, opportunists will attempt to exploit another vehicle for their ambitions. Hopefully, the global warming issue will not turn out to be such a vehicle.

Plus �a change...

Can you expand on that Alan?

TBH, I haven't got a clue as to what you mean.

Stephen Elliott

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,14:37

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Feb. 24 2007,07:00)

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 20 2007,11:40)

It is only since reading at PT etc that I found religion/religious people that are disturbing.

Oddly, it was only since reading at PT that I found ANTI-religious people thare disturbing. � �;)

Oh yes,
I remember that.
It can be quite scarey when people wish to impose thier opinions onto others.
Key words are opinion and impose.
It bothers me not when people wish to persuade with evidence. That is fine.

Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him.

It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to.

This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations.

With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to.

OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work.

Bing

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,16:45

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Feb. 24 2007,14:37)

Coincidently, I had a Jehova's witness at my door today. He was sorta alone (as in he did not have a coleague), he did have his young (bored looking) son with him.

It was quite amazing with the arguments he used. Micro/Macro evolution, Why do we still have monkeys, The list of scientists etc etc where all mentioned. This site gave me enough counter-arguments to send him packing without being rude. He didn't even leave me the pamphlets he was going to.

This place and PT had me well prepared in my arguments. Seen them before and had answers/refutations.

With hindsight I could have handled it better. Invited him in and show him where he had been lied to.

OTOH I did not want to upset him too much. I believe that he thought he was doing good work.

That's where you and I differ. I had one coming to my door every Saturday for weeks on end. He seemed like a nice old geezer but polite requests to leave me alone and not knock on my door were ignored.

So finally fed up, I invited him in. When I asked him to light the candles in the points of the pentagram that I had painted on the basement floor while I went and got the chicken he took off like a scalded cat.

And the next week I saw him cross the street as he walked up the sidewalk. Guess I musta scared him or something?

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,17:12

Quote

I believe that he thought he was doing good work.

and THAT'S the real problem.

instead of taking down his arguments, I would suggest a more productive approach would be to show the DAMAGE his "good work" has and is causing to education in this country.

then he can ask himself where his arguments went wrong.

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Stephen Elliott

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Posted: Feb. 24 2007,19:48

Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 24 2007,17:12)

Quote

I believe that he thought he was doing good work.

and THAT'S the real problem.

instead of taking down his arguments, I would suggest a more productive approach would be to show the DAMAGE his "good work" has and is causing to education in this country.

then he can ask himself where his arguments went wrong.

Fair point Ichy. How would you suggest going about that? I wouldn't know where to start.

Stephen Elliott

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