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Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,10:53    Quote (olegt @ Feb. 06 2015,09:44) I'll venture to predict that Joe also no longer wears that sweater. What sweater? -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,10:56    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:32) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:19) Hey TWiT- I bet you didn't know that I don't wear glasses. You did when that picture was taken. And what difference does it make? Either way you're still a ronery wimpy IDiot. LoL! Yeah wimps always take the most dangerous roads on the planet in an unarmoured SUV. And they also spend months in the Amazon rain forest helping a foreign military. Got it... -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,10:58    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 06 2015,10:49) Hi Joe. When are you going to publish your proof that Cantor was wrong about set theory? I am sure that we are all looking forward to it. Will it be a companion piece to your published proof that frequency = wavelength? Show me a frequency that has more than one wavelength. Show me a wavelength that has more than one frequency. Cantor was ignorant about relativity and basic set subtraction proves there is a difference between countably infinite sets. Don't blame me because you are too dim to grasp that. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,10:59    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:28) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:00) What Kevin said:   Quote Three of the top five (including the two hottest) are within the last 4 years. Nine of the top ten are within the last 12 years That is refuted by the fact the mid-Pliocene was warmer than today. You obviously missed this in one of my previous comments: "joey, as anyone with a clue would realize, Ogre wasn't comparing recent global warming/climate change to the Mid-Pliocene or the Miocene, or to the Triassic, Cambrian, or any other ancient time period." So you speak for Kevin? No, you don't and he never made the claim you spew. So fuck off -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:01    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:32) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:19) Hey TWiT- I bet you didn't know that I don't wear glasses. You did when that picture was taken. And what difference does it make? Either way you're still a ronery wimpy IDiot. I was the one taking the picture. (cue twilight zone music) -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:02    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,10:27) Hey joey, you haven't fizzled out already, have you? Tell us more about how privileged Earth is, and how allah created and sustains it that way, and how to find habitable planets, and how warming and CO2 are good, and about the Sun, and all of your other claims. Hey TWiT, you are a fizzle and you have been outed. Now buy a vowel and get an education. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:09    Happy Friday everyone!  It's looking like a vintage meltdown is in progress - let's see how much drool we can get him to produce this time. Dance, monkey, dance! -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:10    Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 06 2015,11:09) Happy Friday everyone!  It's looking like a vintage meltdown is in progress - let's see how much drool we can get him to produce this time. Dance, monkey, dance! You produce liters of drool, Johnny. Along with TWiT and the rest I am sure you could fill a large swimming pool. And you would jump right in and savor every moment. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:25    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:59) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:28) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:00) What Kevin said:   Quote Three of the top five (including the two hottest) are within the last 4 years. Nine of the top ten are within the last 12 years That is refuted by the fact the mid-Pliocene was warmer than today. You obviously missed this in one of my previous comments: "joey, as anyone with a clue would realize, Ogre wasn't comparing recent global warming/climate change to the Mid-Pliocene or the Miocene, or to the Triassic, Cambrian, or any other ancient time period." So you speak for Kevin? No, you don't and he never made the claim you spew. So fuck off Actually, joey, Ogre didn't make the claim that you spew. He was referring to recent global warming (aka climate change) and didn't say anything about ancient time periods. You're the one who tossed in irrelevant crap (as usual). -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:33    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,09:01) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:32) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:19) Hey TWiT- I bet you didn't know that I don't wear glasses. You did when that picture was taken. And what difference does it make? Either way you're still a ronery wimpy IDiot. I was the one taking the picture. (cue twilight zone music) If that's true it only means that it was a typical selfie or that you put the camera on a tripod or other base and set the camera's timer. What do you want for that, a medal? -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:34    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:58) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 06 2015,10:49) Hi Joe. When are you going to publish your proof that Cantor was wrong about set theory? I am sure that we are all looking forward to it. Will it be a companion piece to your published proof that frequency = wavelength? Show me a frequency that has more than one wavelength. Show me a wavelength that has more than one frequency. Cantor was ignorant about relativity and basic set subtraction proves there is a difference between countably infinite sets. Don't blame me because you are too dim to grasp that. Okie dokie, physics boy: Frequency of 4kHz.  What's the wavelength? Wavelength of 2m.  What's the frequency? -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:36    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,11:25) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:59) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:28)   Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:00) What Kevin said:     Quote Three of the top five (including the two hottest) are within the last 4 years. Nine of the top ten are within the last 12 years That is refuted by the fact the mid-Pliocene was warmer than today. You obviously missed this in one of my previous comments: "joey, as anyone with a clue would realize, Ogre wasn't comparing recent global warming/climate change to the Mid-Pliocene or the Miocene, or to the Triassic, Cambrian, or any other ancient time period." So you speak for Kevin? No, you don't and he never made the claim you spew. So fuck off Actually, joey, Ogre didn't make the claim that you spew. He was referring to recent global warming (aka climate change) and didn't say anything about ancient time periods. You're the one who tossed in irrelevant crap (as usual). Fuck you. He said what he did and it did NOT contain the shit you posted. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:39    Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 06 2015,11:34) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:58) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 06 2015,10:49) Hi Joe. When are you going to publish your proof that Cantor was wrong about set theory? I am sure that we are all looking forward to it. Will it be a companion piece to your published proof that frequency = wavelength? Show me a frequency that has more than one wavelength. Show me a wavelength that has more than one frequency. Cantor was ignorant about relativity and basic set subtraction proves there is a difference between countably infinite sets. Don't blame me because you are too dim to grasp that. Okie dokie, physics boy: Frequency of 4kHz.  What's the wavelength? Wavelength of 2m.  What's the frequency? Frequency = 1/T so do the math. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:39    By the way, joey, you do realize, don't you, that you're now indirectly admitting that you lied when you claimed that that picture wasn't of you? -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:40    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,11:33) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,09:01) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:32)   Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:19) Hey TWiT- I bet you didn't know that I don't wear glasses. You did when that picture was taken. And what difference does it make? Either way you're still a ronery wimpy IDiot. I was the one taking the picture. (cue twilight zone music) If that's true it only means that it was a typical selfie or that you put the camera on a tripod or other base and set the camera's timer. What do you want for that, a medal? Wrong again. That isn't me in the photo. Why did I send Luke a picture that wasn't of me? Because of assholes like you trolling the internet. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:41    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,11:39) By the way, joey, you do realize, don't you, that you're now indirectly admitting that you lied when you claimed that that picture wasn't of you? LoL! You are one demented imbecile. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:53    It's that guy Jim, most likely. You know, Joe's long-time collaborator who shares his writing style. -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

Joe G Posts: 12011 Joined: July 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:55    Quote (olegt @ Feb. 06 2015,11:53) It's that guy Jim, most likely. You know, Joe's long-time collaborator who shares his writing style. Nope, keep fishing. -------------- "Facts are Stupid"- Timothy Horton aka Occam's Afterbirth "Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"-ID and Timothy Horton Whales do not have tails. Water turns to ice via a molecular code-  Acartia bogart, TARD YEC is more coherent than materialism and it's bastard child, evolutionism

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:58    Quote (olegt @ Feb. 06 2015,09:53) It's that guy Jim, most likely. You know, Joe's long-time collaborator who shares his writing style. Or John Paul, or ID guy, or frisbee kid. -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,11:59    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,11:58) Quote (olegt @ Feb. 06 2015,09:53) It's that guy Jim, most likely. You know, Joe's long-time collaborator who shares his writing style. Or John Paul, or ID guy, or frisbee kid. Yeah, could be any of them. Only Joe can tell them apart. -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

OgreMkV Posts: 3668 Joined: Oct. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,12:13    I'm sorry Joe, but you are (as usual) being unfair. We are required to precisely say every minute detail of anything we talk about. If we don't, then you feel free to make up stuff about what we said. However, you don't hold yourself to the same level of detail and refuse to talk about anything more than vague responses... at some point later, you will then deny having said due to some minor point (like a semicolon instead of a comma). This is little more than purposefully misleading. Some would call it outright lying, but I know how sensitive you are and would never do that to you. If you don't want to talk about the science, then fine. Make up whatever crap helps you sleep at night.  Whatever helps you believe you won a discussion. Anyone (even your fellow IDers) can see you have no idea what's going on. As a point of fact, whenever people are talking about human caused climate change... one assumes that we're talking about the period that humans could actually cause climate change. I know you don't care about that, because you have this strange delusion that reality doesn't exist. That CO2 is not a greenhouse gas. That plants would be infinitely better with infinite CO2. That "warm is good", ignoring ocean acidification, ice sheet collapse, increase in extreme weather, and all the other issues you don't get because you have no idea what's really going on. Whatever.  We'll just have to muddle through without your opinion. Because, honestly, even if you were right, you are such a truly horrid person, that no one would listen to you anyway. -------------- Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,12:14    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,09:39) Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 06 2015,11:34) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:58)   Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 06 2015,10:49) Hi Joe. When are you going to publish your proof that Cantor was wrong about set theory? I am sure that we are all looking forward to it. Will it be a companion piece to your published proof that frequency = wavelength? Show me a frequency that has more than one wavelength. Show me a wavelength that has more than one frequency. Cantor was ignorant about relativity and basic set subtraction proves there is a difference between countably infinite sets. Don't blame me because you are too dim to grasp that. Okie dokie, physics boy: Frequency of 4kHz.  What's the wavelength? Wavelength of 2m.  What's the frequency? Frequency = 1/T so do the math. You have no idea, do you?  Come on, Joe - a frequency can have only one wavelength and a wavelength can have only one frequency in Joephysics, so this should be easy. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

socle Posts: 322 Joined: July 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,12:16    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,10:58) Show me a frequency that has more than one wavelength. Show me a wavelength that has more than one frequency. Interesting that you're quite keen to use the concept of a one-to-one correspondence here. Â

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,12:23    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,09:36) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,11:25)   Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:59)   Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:28)     Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:00) What Kevin said:       Quote Three of the top five (including the two hottest) are within the last 4 years. Nine of the top ten are within the last 12 years That is refuted by the fact the mid-Pliocene was warmer than today. You obviously missed this in one of my previous comments: "joey, as anyone with a clue would realize, Ogre wasn't comparing recent global warming/climate change to the Mid-Pliocene or the Miocene, or to the Triassic, Cambrian, or any other ancient time period." So you speak for Kevin? No, you don't and he never made the claim you spew. So fuck off Actually, joey, Ogre didn't make the claim that you spew. He was referring to recent global warming (aka climate change) and didn't say anything about ancient time periods. You're the one who tossed in irrelevant crap (as usual). Fuck you. He said what he did and it did NOT contain the shit you posted. Hey joey, Jim, John Paul, ID guy, frisbee kid, in response to your quoted words: "If CO2 caused warming then each year should be warmer than the previous year as the CO2 concentration is increasing. Yet we do not see that." Ogre said: "On average Joe, each year IS warmer than the years before. Not on a yearly basis, but definitely on a decade basis. Of course, the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere varies on a yearly and seasonal basis too... doesn't it? Three of the top five (including the two hottest) are within the last 4 years. Nine of the top ten are within the last 12 years But, I understand that you don't care. You don't want to learn anything. And will fight, to the death, to avoid having to admit a mistake." And then you said: "The mid-Pliocene was warmer than today, Kevin. And the Miocene may have been warmer than that." And Ogre said: "Which has nothing to do with today. But nice try... not really." And you said: "LoL! What an asshole you are, Kevin. I didn't say it had something to do with today. It does refute your nonsensical post though." So, joey, when you said "If CO2 caused warming then each year should be warmer than the previous year as the CO2 concentration is increasing. Yet we do not see that." you weren't talking about today (recent global warming/climate change)? Your statement was about the Mid-Pliocene and the Miocene? And can you show where Ogre said anything about any ancient time periods? ETA: ID guy to joey's usernames. Edited by The whole truth on Feb. 06 2015,10:46 -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

The whole truth Posts: 1554 Joined: Jan. 2012 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,12:47    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:56) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:32) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:19) Hey TWiT- I bet you didn't know that I don't wear glasses. You did when that picture was taken. And what difference does it make? Either way you're still a ronery wimpy IDiot. LoL! Yeah wimps always take the most dangerous roads on the planet in an unarmoured SUV. And they also spend months in the Amazon rain forest helping a foreign military. Got it... What a MAN! LMAO -------------- Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,13:27    Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,12:47) Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,08:56) Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 06 2015,09:32)   Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,07:19) Hey TWiT- I bet you didn't know that I don't wear glasses. You did when that picture was taken. And what difference does it make? Either way you're still a ronery wimpy IDiot. LoL! Yeah wimps always take the most dangerous roads on the planet in an unarmoured SUV. And they also spend months in the Amazon rain forest helping a foreign military. Got it... What a MAN! LMAO Joe did it on a unicycle. And he fixed their fridge.   -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,13:29    Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 06 2015,10:58) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Feb. 06 2015,10:49) Hi Joe. When are you going to publish your proof that Cantor was wrong about set theory? I am sure that we are all looking forward to it. Will it be a companion piece to your published proof that frequency = wavelength? Show me a frequency that has more than one wavelength. Show me a wavelength that has more than one frequency. Cantor was ignorant about relativity and basic set subtraction proves there is a difference between countably infinite sets. Don't blame me because you are too dim to grasp that. Joe. You made a statement several weeks ago that wavelength equals frequency, a self-evidently incorrect statement. Everyone, including myself, makes these types of innocent misstatements on occasion but a sane and rational person would admit that they were mistaken when it is pointed out to them. Would you like to tell the good people here how you reacted to this? (no need to answer this question. It is rhetorical). As well, in-between calling Jerrad every abusive name in the book on your blog, you claimed that you have proven that Cantor is wrong. All I asked was when you planned to publish this proof. Let me rephrase that so that even you can understand it. It will only require a one word answer. Are you planning to publish your proof that Cantor was wrong? As Gordon (KairosFocus) Mullings would say, your answer will be very telling.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,14:18    i look forwared to joe's explanation of group velocity vs phase velocity. Edited by stevestory on Feb. 06 2015,15:18

olegt Posts: 1405 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,14:25    Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 06 2015,14:18) i look forwared to joe's explanation of group velocity vs phase velocity. That should disperse him! -------------- If you are not: Galapagos Finch please Logout »

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 06 2015,14:34    doughnuts -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

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