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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 5

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stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2016,16:09    the HEKS post has been switched at the top for Barry's stupid global warming post. and the comments are super smart! Quote 5 PeterSeptember 6, 2016 at 6:04 pm That was before Al Gore discovered how useful a political issue it would be. The Dems are seen to be more environmentally aware. What better way to frighten the uninformed masses into voting for the Democratic party. DERP

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2016,16:11    Quote 6 wd400September 6, 2016 at 8:25 pm Amazing how almost every scientist working in the field across the entire world was fooled by Gore’s trick to win votes in the US…   Quote 7 bbSeptember 6, 2016 at 9:22 pm “Amazing how almost every scientist working in the field across the entire world was fooled by Gore’s trick to win votes in the US…” Consensus is the business of politics, not science. With all those scientists, you would think at least one model forecasting catastrophe would bear out by now. Take a look at The big list of failed climate predictions. Thanks for the argument from authority.   Quote Global warming, due to greenhouse gasses, is the latest in a long series of one-factor theories about a multi-factor world. Such theories have often enjoyed great popularity, despite how often they have turned out to be wrong. -Thomas Sowell, www.nationalreview.com/article/434836/donald-trump-campaign-finance-reform-global-warming-fate-america Edited by stevestory on Sep. 08 2016,17:13

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2016,16:37    the thread takes a fun turn when wd400 and bob oh make Barry look stupid, which is to say they talk to him. Edited by stevestory on Sep. 08 2016,17:37

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 08 2016,17:18    Sowell is still alive? -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Glen Davidson Posts: 1100 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,12:06    Dembski in interview Quote The Noah’s Ark theme park in Kentucky is a case in point. What an embarrassment and waste of money. Gee, just what one might say of Dembski's books. Glen Davidson -------------- http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,12:17    Quote (Glen Davidson @ Sep. 09 2016,10:06) Dembski in interview     Quote The Noah’s Ark theme park in Kentucky is a case in point. What an embarrassment and waste of money. Gee, just what one might say of Dembski's books. Glen Davidson   Quote DEMBSKI Unlike creationism, with which it is often conflated, intelligent design shifts the discussion of biological origins from a religion vs. science controversy to a science vs. science controversy. ... MCDOWELL: As a whole, how would you assess the reception of ID within the church? Is too science! -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,14:06    Quote Sean McDowell interviews Bill Dembski on how ID is doing September 8, 2016 Posted by News under Darwinism, Intelligent Design, theistic evolution 15 Comments Here. Biography MCDOWELL: What do you consider some of the greatest successes, and also challenges, in the ID movement? DEMBSKI Unlike creationism, with which it is often conflated, intelligent design shifts the discussion of biological origins from a religion vs. science controversy to a science vs. science controversy. This is a success, even if ID’s critics continue to try to claim that it is religion in scientific garb. First comment out of the gate: Quote 1 Otangelo GrassoSeptember 8, 2016 at 3:47 pm ID will never be a position held by the majority, or a real status quo shifter . Simply, because if you accept it, you need to accept logically God. Most proponents of evolution do not keep their belief in it, because its rationally the best explanation, and where science leads to, but they are driven by the wish and will of God not to exist. First, they want God out of their lives, and then they do everything to justify their prejudice rationally. derp

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,14:10    Quote 11 REWSeptember 9, 2016 at 9:12 am I’m really surprised to see so much hostility to YECs here. There are more similarities between ID and YEC than there are differences. Many YECs cite ID sources, and there have been IDers citing YEC sources, although not as many. There are a few YECs at the DI ( including Paul Nelson I believe) and IDers and YECs have joint meetings on occassion. If you take all the major arguments made by YECs (excluding religious arguments) you can pretty much line them up precisely with the same argument made by IDers. The only difference is that the ID arguments are usually far more sophisticated – both scientifically and philosophically- than the equivalent YEC argument. Does REW realize what he's saying here?

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,14:14    Quote 67 AndreSeptember 8, 2016 at 9:04 pm Bob O’H So do you have empathy with other or are you trying to have empathy? I am confused? What meaning does empathy have then for you? And if you don’t like them suffering what exactly is it that you would do to aleviate their supposed suffering? Quote 68 PindiSeptember 8, 2016 at 9:30 pm Hi asauber and Andre, I don’t know about Bob, but I am starting to suffer from severe boredom at your inane questions. Edited by stevestory on Sep. 09 2016,15:15

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,14:53    Mapou discussing science over on Hunter's blog: Quote Both atheists and Christians will throw a clot when the real meaning of the book of Revelation comes out. Based on my research, I have determined that it is a purely scientific book coded in a clever and very precise metaphorical (or occult) language. More precisely, it is a description of how the brain and consciousness works. It is only a partial revelation. The rest of it can be found in the book of Zechariah (Yahweh remembers): the vision of Joshua the high priest and the golden menorah, which is a description of the structure, organization and mechanisms of memory and conscious attention.

NoName Posts: 2729 Joined: Mar. 2013 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,15:05    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 09 2016,15:53) Mapou discussing science over on Hunter's blog: Quote Both atheists and Christians will throw a clot when the real meaning of the book of Revelation comes out. Based on my research, I have determined that it is a purely scientific book coded in a clever and very precise metaphorical (or occult) language. More precisely, it is a description of how the brain and consciousness works. It is only a partial revelation. The rest of it can be found in the book of Zechariah (Yahweh remembers): the vision of Joshua the high priest and the golden menorah, which is a description of the structure, organization and mechanisms of memory and conscious attention. He should get together with Gary Gaulin.  The lulz would be epic.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2016,16:39    Quote Darwinismo v. Diseno: no es un debate complicado September 9, 2016 Posted by Granville Sewell under Intelligent Design Comments off Para nuestros lectores bilingues (se que tenemos algunos), un video que demuestra que el debate no es nada complicado: embedded by Embedded Video wonder what they are avoiding by closing comments....

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2016,14:27    Order now before they are sold out. More ID crap.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2016,17:45    Quote Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics fuses results from complexity modeling and information theory that allow both meaning and design difficulty in nature to be measured in bits. Built on the foundation of a series of peer-reviewed papers published by the authors, the book is written at a level easily understandable to readers with knowledge of rudimentary high school math. Those seeking a quick first read or those not interested in mathematical detail can skip marked sections in the monograph and still experience the impact of this new and exciting model of nature’s information. Go ahead and skip the technical math sections, because they're wrong and you're a sucker.

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2016,02:05    Quote (NoName @ Sep. 09 2016,23:05) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 09 2016,15:53) Mapou discussing science over on Hunter's blog:   Quote Both atheists and Christians will throw a clot when the real meaning of the book of Revelation comes out. Based on my research, I have determined that it is a purely scientific book coded in a clever and very precise metaphorical (or occult) language. More precisely, it is a description of how the brain and consciousness works. It is only a partial revelation. The rest of it can be found in the book of Zechariah (Yahweh remembers): the vision of Joshua the high priest and the golden menorah, which is a description of the structure, organization and mechanisms of memory and conscious attention. He should get together with Gary Gaulin.  The lulz would be epic. What, both of them claiming to be Napoleon? -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 11 2016,09:40    Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 10 2016,17:45)   Quote Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics fuses results from complexity modeling and information theory that allow both meaning and design difficulty in nature to be measured in bits. Built on the foundation of a series of peer-reviewed papers published by the authors, the book is written at a level easily understandable to readers with knowledge of rudimentary high school math. Those seeking a quick first read or those not interested in mathematical detail can skip marked sections in the monograph and still experience the impact of this new and exciting model of nature’s information. Here's what one finds about W. Dembski on Amazon's about the authors section:   Quote William A Dembski is Senior Research Scientist at the Evolutionary Informatics Lab in McGregor, Texas; and also Senior Fellow with Seattle's Discovery Institute, Washington, USA. He holds a BA in Psychology, MS in Statistics, PhD in Philosophy, and a PhD in Mathematics (awarded in 1988 by the University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, USA), and an MDiv degree from Princeton Theological Seminary (1996, New Jersey, USA). Dembski's work experience includes being an Associate Research Professor with the Conceptual Foundations of Science, Baylor University, Waco, Texas, USA. He has taught at Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA; the University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Indiana, USA; and the University of Dallas, Irving, Texas, USA. He has done postdoctoral work in mathematics with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, USA; in physics with the University of Chicago, USA; and in computer science with Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA. He is a Mathematician and Philosopher. He has held National Science Foundation graduate and postdoctoral fellowships, and has published articles in mathematics, engineering, philosophy, and theology journals and is the author/editor of more than twenty books. Un-surprisingly, some of the employments he listed in his CV are not mentioned:   Quote • Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor in Culture and Science, Southern Evangelical Seminary (ses.edu), part-time 2012–2013 • Research Professor in Philosophy, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, Texas, 2006–2012 • Carl F. H. Henry Professor of Theology and Science, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, 2005–2006 -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2016,11:12    Quote (sparc @ Sep. 11 2016,17:40) Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 10 2016,17:45)     Quote Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics fuses results from complexity modeling and information theory that allow both meaning and design difficulty in nature to be measured in bits. Built on the foundation of a series of peer-reviewed papers published by the authors, the book is written at a level easily understandable to readers with knowledge of rudimentary high school math. Those seeking a quick first read or those not interested in mathematical detail can skip marked sections in the monograph and still experience the impact of this new and exciting model of nature’s information. Here's what one finds about W. Dembski on Amazon's about the authors section:   Quote William A Dembski is Senior Research Scientist at the Evolutionary Informatics Lab in McGregor, Texas; and also Senior Fellow with Seattle's Discovery Institute, Washington, USA. He holds a BA in Psychology, MS in Statistics, PhD in Philosophy, and a PhD in Mathematics (awarded in 1988 by the University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, USA), and an MDiv degree from Princeton Theological Seminary (1996, New Jersey, USA). Dembski's work experience includes being an Associate Research Professor with the Conceptual Foundations of Science, Baylor University, Waco, Texas, USA. He has taught at Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA; the University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Indiana, USA; and the University of Dallas, Irving, Texas, USA. He has done postdoctoral work in mathematics with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, USA; in physics with the University of Chicago, USA; and in computer science with Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA. He is a Mathematician and Philosopher. He has held National Science Foundation graduate and postdoctoral fellowships, and has published articles in mathematics, engineering, philosophy, and theology journals and is the author/editor of more than twenty books. Un-surprisingly, some of the employments he listed in his CV are not mentioned:   Quote • Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor in Culture and Science, Southern Evangelical Seminary (ses.edu), part-time 2012–2013 • Research Professor in Philosophy, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, Texas, 2006–2012 • Carl F. H. Henry Professor of Theology and Science, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, 2005–2006 He also missed out farty animator and bottle of scotch bet welsher. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2016,11:25    Quote (k.e.. @ Sep. 12 2016,09:12) Quote (sparc @ Sep. 11 2016,17:40) Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 10 2016,17:45)     Quote Introduction to Evolutionary Informatics fuses results from complexity modeling and information theory that allow both meaning and design difficulty in nature to be measured in bits. Built on the foundation of a series of peer-reviewed papers published by the authors, the book is written at a level easily understandable to readers with knowledge of rudimentary high school math. Those seeking a quick first read or those not interested in mathematical detail can skip marked sections in the monograph and still experience the impact of this new and exciting model of nature’s information. Here's what one finds about W. Dembski on Amazon's about the authors section:     Quote William A Dembski is Senior Research Scientist at the Evolutionary Informatics Lab in McGregor, Texas; and also Senior Fellow with Seattle's Discovery Institute, Washington, USA. He holds a BA in Psychology, MS in Statistics, PhD in Philosophy, and a PhD in Mathematics (awarded in 1988 by the University of Chicago, Chicago, Illinois, USA), and an MDiv degree from Princeton Theological Seminary (1996, New Jersey, USA). Dembski's work experience includes being an Associate Research Professor with the Conceptual Foundations of Science, Baylor University, Waco, Texas, USA. He has taught at Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois, USA; the University of Notre Dame, Notre Dame, Indiana, USA; and the University of Dallas, Irving, Texas, USA. He has done postdoctoral work in mathematics with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, USA; in physics with the University of Chicago, USA; and in computer science with Princeton University, Princeton, New Jersey, USA. He is a Mathematician and Philosopher. He has held National Science Foundation graduate and postdoctoral fellowships, and has published articles in mathematics, engineering, philosophy, and theology journals and is the author/editor of more than twenty books. Un-surprisingly, some of the employments he listed in his CV are not mentioned:     Quote • Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor in Culture and Science, Southern Evangelical Seminary (ses.edu), part-time 2012–2013 • Research Professor in Philosophy, Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth, Texas, 2006–2012 • Carl F. H. Henry Professor of Theology and Science, The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, Louisville, 2005–2006 He also missed out farty animator and bottle of scotch bet welsher. And sweater model. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2016,11:54    Quote 8 polistraSeptember 12, 2016 at 9:46 am The important point here is that linguists are DOING REAL SCIENCE. Unlike most paid “scientists”, they are testing theories and QUICKLY ABANDONING the theories that don’t work. They’re not waiting for Kuhnian attrition. Even Chomsky is acting like a scientist, willingly revising his old theories and offering new ones. This behavior is ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE among academics. derp

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 12 2016,23:10    Seeing evolution in action doesn't impress johnnyb much   Quote I’m curious how much information the cells contained biasing their evolution, but I’m guessing that the researchers here aren’t as curious about that question. Why isn’t there a measurement of this? Isn’t that the most normal question to ask? Doesn’t that seem to be basic to anyone with even a hint of curiosity about how evolution works? gpuccio is preparing to start up full denial/downplay mode as well:   Quote Many simple individual mutational events can cause resistance to antibiotics, usually modifying the target protein which is affected by the antibiotic itself. Peer (completely clueless):   Quote Frontloaded evolution BA77 obsfuscating by linking to a completely unrelated video   Quote OT ... Dionisio is questioning if this isn't rather adaption than evolution     Quote Are there adaptation mechanisms associated with this? Does the term “micro-evolution” relate to this type of case? In the case of bacteria, what kind of process would qualify as “macro-evolution”? How does this compare to the famous case of the Galapagos finches changing their beak size under different conditions? How does this compare to the case where humans adapt to highest or lower altitudes through changes in the amount of red blood cells? Are there any relations between those scenarios? Just waiting for Behe's edge of evolution being mentioned and  looking forward for some FIASC/O calculations from KF. All science so far PS: Don't miss watching the videos on Harvard's original pages ETA: Behe already reacted Edited by sparc on Sep. 13 2016,00:50 -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,00:59    EN&V reacted as well (on September 9 already but I don't go there too often):     Quote The key to understanding the paper is its Figure 3C. There it shows the genes that have undergone more than one mutation across tested bacteria. They break the mutations down into silent changes, changes of amino acids (point mutations), and insertion-deletion or nonsense mutations, which almost certainly are loss of function (LOF). Over half of genes contain such LOF mutations, along with some point mutations, which likely also degrade or destroy function. In other words, devolution. Moreover, as the paper in Science points out in its conclusion, "The MEGA-plate is not intended to directly simulate natural or clinical settings," but "its relative simplicity and ability to visually demonstrate evolution makes the MEGA-plate a useful tool for science education and outreach." In other words, the MEGA-plate does not correspond to the real world and may be irrelevant to medicine. Instead, its value will be primarily to indoctrinate students in evolution. Despite its dubious relevance to medicine, the second author, Tami Lieberman (an "evolutionary microbiologist," not a physician), told NPR: "Getting more people to understand how quickly bacteria evolve antibiotic resistance might help people understand why they shouldn't be prescribed antibiotics." Now that's downright irresponsible, at least as the comment is phrased. As Dr. Lieberman knows, properly used antibiotics save lives. Behe is embarrassing himself by making the same devolution argument in the podcast mentioned above. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,04:22    ID science! Quote 3 bornagain77 (about halfway down) The Scary Power of Negative Words Excerpt: Japanese scientist, Masaru Emoto performed some of the most fascinating experiments on the effect that words have on energy in the 1990’s. When frozen, water that’s free from all impurities will form beautiful ice crystals that look exactly like snowflakes under a microscope. Water that’s polluted, or has additives like fluoride, will freeze without forming crystals. In his experiments, Emoto poured pure water into vials labeled with negative phrases like “I hate you” or “fear.” After 24 hours, the water was frozen, and no longer crystallized under the microscope: It yielded gray, misshapen clumps instead of beautiful lace-like crystals. In contrast, Emoto placed labels that said things like “I Love You,” or “Peace” on vials of polluted water, and after 24 hours, they produced gleaming, perfectly hexagonal crystals. Emoto’s experiments proved that energy generated by positive or negative words can actually change the physical structure of an object. [URL=http://goop.com/the-scary-power-of-negative-words/ (Note the very sciencey URL) Lare in the same thread: Quote 5 bornagain77 of note: as to my citing of Masaru Emoto’s work on ice crystals, I cannot find anywhere where his results were replicated and thus I can not personally stand behind his results. But I do still stand behind the claim for positive and negative words having pronounced effects on us personally since that particular line of evidence is corroborated by many different lines of evidence. Chomsky largely overturned thread Edited by CeilingCat on Sep. 13 2016,04:31

sparc Posts: 2088 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,07:10    Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 13 2016,04:22)   Quote 5 bornagain77 of note: as to my citing of Masaru Emoto’s work on ice crystals, I cannot find anywhere where his results were replicated and thus I can not personally stand behind his results. But I do still stand behind the claim for positive and negative words having pronounced effects on us personally since that particular line of evidence is corroborated by many different lines of evidence. He would have repeated the experiment in his basement if the strings of words applied weren't that complex (any guess how much FSCI/O is in them?). This obviously is information theory at its highest level. -------------- "[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God." - William Dembski -

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,10:58    Quote (CeilingCat @ Sep. 13 2016,05:22) ID science!   Quote 3 bornagain77 (about halfway down) The Scary Power of Negative Words Excerpt: Japanese scientist, Masaru Emoto performed some of the most fascinating experiments on the effect that words have on energy in the 1990’s. When frozen, water that’s free from all impurities will form beautiful ice crystals that look exactly like snowflakes under a microscope. Water that’s polluted, or has additives like fluoride, will freeze without forming crystals. In his experiments, Emoto poured pure water into vials labeled with negative phrases like “I hate you” or “fear.” After 24 hours, the water was frozen, and no longer crystallized under the microscope: It yielded gray, misshapen clumps instead of beautiful lace-like crystals. In contrast, Emoto placed labels that said things like “I Love You,” or “Peace” on vials of polluted water, and after 24 hours, they produced gleaming, perfectly hexagonal crystals. Emoto’s experiments proved that energy generated by positive or negative words can actually change the physical structure of an object. [URL=http://goop.com/the-scary-power-of-negative-words/ (Note the very sciencey URL) Lare in the same thread: Quote 5 bornagain77 of note: as to my citing of Masaru Emoto’s work on ice crystals, I cannot find anywhere where his results were replicated and thus I can not personally stand behind his results. But I do still stand behind the claim for positive and negative words having pronounced effects on us personally since that particular line of evidence is corroborated by many different lines of evidence. Chomsky largely overturned thread

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,14:38    Quote US Pres. George W Bush’s 9/11-01 interview (as food for thought) September 13, 2016 Posted by kairosfocus under General interest, Geo-strategic issues, Lessons of History, Politics/policy and origins issues, Video 2 Comments Video: embedded by Embedded Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?f....gE_V6tQ (Please understand this i/l/o the context of complacency, attack and the lesson of Jan Sobieski. Ask yourself, in your heart is our civilisation worth fighting for given the likely alternatives (or, does it deserve to die . . . or be utterly “transformed”), and why or why not?) Ponder, our geostrategic challenges, and how our underlying worldviews . . . whether or not dressed up in a lab coat . . . and deep-rooted perceptions shape how we act, whilst geostrategic realities (and some pretty ruthless operators out there) shape consequences: Where do we go from here? What is the likely consequence? END Quote 1 DillyGillSeptember 13, 2016 at 5:36 am There are some very intelligent people on this site who are good at seeing through a narrative running along side the evidence. Critical thinking needs to be applied to 9/11 and a good place to start is ‘architects and engineers for 9/11 truth.’ (apply the scientific method, the law of conserved momentum alone dictates that the official narrative is wrong) TRUTH and justice should be of concern to all Christians Stop putting your faith in the leadership structures that are heading us toward a one world government. linky

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,14:41    God doesn't love me enough to have UD become a Troofer site.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,15:10    Such a pretty, unretouched map there

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,16:50    Quote 41 PindiSeptember 13, 2016 at 3:33 pm Hi KF, I think and re-think all the time, but I don’t agree with you. So let’s just leave it at that. I acknowledge that you have a different view to me, and I’m alright with that. It seems to me that you are unable to return the sentiment. All you are interested in is changing other people’s views, rather than just discussing them. That mode of discourse doesn’t appeal to me. I don’t enjoy it or find it enlightening. So there is nothing in it for me. cheers. link

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,18:14    KF knows he is on the front line.  One of those red IslamISM arrows is pointing directly at his bedroom.  (You have to allow for windage and the coriolus force, of course.  Otherwise, ISIS would seem to have sinister designs on St. Goober Cay.) Edited by CeilingCat on Sep. 13 2016,18:16

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2016,18:39    Good God!  It's worse than anybody thought! Look at the red line right above the one pointing at KF.  It's pointing directly at Morris, Minnesota! The IslamISTs are out to get PZ Myers!

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