Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::A Separate Thread for Gary Gaulin

Posted: Dec. 02 2015,19:28

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 02 2015,18:19)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 02 2015,09:15)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 02 2015,06:09)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 01 2015,22:01)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Nov. 29 2015,12:59)

On "machine learning" and computer modeling "evolution":

Pedro Domingos: "The Master Algorithm" | Authors at Google
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....t=4m57s

Kinda tough to take someone seriously who thinks David Rumelhart originated back-propagation.

Tribal conflict over who originated back-propagation?

Failure of basic scholarship?

Of course, Gary is not expected to understand *that* concept.

Academic snobbery?

QED

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

QED

Posts: 41
Joined: July 2008

Posted: Dec. 02 2015,20:47

~~penis~~ education-envy

fnxtr

Posts: 3504
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 02 2015,21:01

Academic snobbery is when G_inG_out is attacked by the intelligent, educated segment of the culture.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night." Joe G

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 02 2015,23:04

The trollish poster that sounded like Edgar Postrado is close to being banned from the Kurzweil AI forum:

www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/i-made-something#post-732397

They certainly have bad timing. There has been protest against Singularity University for their (from what I can gather) staying small causing it to be a scarce resource that is unaffordable to most and hard to get accepted into. I did not want to get stuck in the conflict but I had something to add to help it become a good thing for the forum too:

www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/the-emperor-has-no-clothes-socrates-deconstructs-singularity-university#post-732191

There is something else I can briefly say in regards to the AI forum being a free incubator for those who have something constructive to add to discussions concerning AI approaches to modeling all the intelligence there is a human brain including its living genome and migrating cells. For what it's worth a number of us went in search for evidence of intelligence at the levels I described and I now have bee behavior and other things now being written into the How it Works for the now under construction ID Lab #6 package.

From what Star0 just told me we have a terrific readership that also just happens to be interested in the success/fail machine intelligence too:

www.kurzweilai.net/forums/topic/a-supercharged-system-to-teach-robots-new-tricks-in-little-time#post-732395

At this point in time it's perhaps just as well that I do not have to know or care what Wesley and a few others are trying to say. Those best able to find what I have useful are in an AI forum that does not care what this one thinks either.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Woodbine

Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

Posted: Dec. 03 2015,03:31

Those 4400 posts just scream "I don't care".

N.Wells

Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Dec. 03 2015,08:47

Quote

I now have bee behavior

No you don't. Bees don't have a hippocampus.

Quote

Those best able to find what I have useful are in an AI forum that does not care what this one thinks either.

And yet here you are anyway.

ChemiCat

Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

Posted: Dec. 03 2015,16:23

Quote

I now have bee behavior

No, you don't. You don't know the first thing about bees. Are you talking of honey bees only or mining bees or cuckoo bees or solitary bees or parasitic bees etc. etc.

Again you are straying into territory you know nothing about and cherry-picking words that you think support your effluent.

This is a field that I have studied and record for wildlife conservation purposes.

So try and learn something before you shoot your mouth off.

Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 03 2015,16:59

Quote (ChemiCat @ Dec. 03 2015,16:23)

Quote

I now have bee behavior

No, you don't. You don't know the first thing about bees. Are you talking of honey bees only or mining bees or cuckoo bees or solitary bees or parasitic bees etc. etc.

Again you are straying into territory you know nothing about and cherry-picking words that you think support your effluent.

This is a field that I have studied and record for wildlife conservation purposes.

So try and learn something before you shoot your mouth off.

Moar academic elitist snobbery! You think that just because you have knowledge that it means that you know more than someone who doesn't! Think of the children!

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

ChemiCat

Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

Posted: Dec. 04 2015,04:32

Quote

Moar academic elitist snobbery! You think that just because you have knowledge that it means that you know more than someone who doesn't! Think of the children!

Quod erat demonstrandum.

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 04 2015,07:24

Getting out of the way of an approaching shock zone requires a good temporal sense of what will soon happen, in the future. This was added by alternating between current angular time (by default room angle is from 0 to 15) and the next angular time frame ahead. The places that will soon become a shock hazard periodically become a place to avoid. This sequential on and off signaling causes a (over time) temporal decision to be made. The same works for swarming bees. Scouts that found a possible new place to build a hive are one at a time allowed to dance out the location. This way each nesting option is one at a time considered in their actions, instead of all bees swarming to the first place found or to different locations.

http://io9.com/5866215....n-brain

There is no circuit deciding which possibility is best. In this case the virtual critter cannot divide and go separate ways. An appropriate action is taken just by repeatedly presenting (in any sequence) what must be acted upon.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

NoName

Posts: 2729
Joined: Mar. 2013

Posted: Dec. 04 2015,07:57

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 04 2015,08:24)

Getting out of the way of an approaching shock zone requires a good temporal sense of what will soon happen, in the future.

As opposed to what will soon happen, in the past?
Your writing is execrable.

Quote

This was added by alternating between current angular time (by default room angle is from 0 to 15) and the next angular time frame ahead. The places that will soon become a shock hazard periodically become a place to avoid. This sequential on and off signaling causes a (over time) temporal decision to be made. The same works for swarming bees. Scouts that found a possible new place to build a hive are one at a time allowed to dance out the location. This way each nesting option is one at a time considered in their actions, instead of all bees swarming to the first place found or to different locations.

http://io9.com/5866215....n-brain

There is no circuit deciding which possibility is best. In this case the virtual critter cannot divide and go separate ways. An appropriate action is taken just by repeatedly presenting (in any sequence) what must be acted upon.

The rest dances between purple-prosed tautologies of the banal to mere word salad.

Learn to think. Then learn to write.
And just maybe pay attention to the concept of 'emergent behavior' which we've been hammering you with for ~9 years.

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 04 2015,18:19

Getting out of the way of an approaching shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future events. This was added by alternating between current angular time (by default room angle is from 0 to 15) and the next angular time frame ahead. The places that will soon become a shock hazard periodically become a place to avoid. This sequential on and off signaling causes a (over time) temporal decision to be made. The same works for swarming bees. Scouts that find a possible new place to build a hive are one at a time allowed to dance out the location for other bees to inspect. This way each option is first considered, before making a final decision. Otherwise all the bees would either swarm to the first site found or to different ones (instead of staying together).

io9.com/5866215/bee-swarms-behave-just-like-neurons-in-the-human-brain

The virtual critter cannot (like a swarm of bees) divide itself then go separate ways, therefore appropriate actions are taken simply by repeatedly presenting (in any sequence) what must be considered.

From one time-step to the next its motors can be busy going forward and reverse as fast as they can just to stay in one place, hover. An occasional reminder that a zap is coming might alter its actions. But it may still wait until the last moment to respond, or not. Much depends on the circumstances, including what it would have done anyway.

Exactly what it will choose to do at any given time is as hard to predict as it is in real animals. The only way to know for sure is read their mind, which (by adding RAM monitoring code) is at least possible to do to the ID Lab critter. But it's still not at all like the easy predictable behavior of zombie-like “programmed” actions from an algorithm that uses math to make it go in a given direction in response to an approaching hazard, instead of simply showing the options to consider then leaving the decision up to it to figure out, on its own.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

ChemiCat

Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,02:24

Quote

From one time-step to the next its motors can be busy going forward and reverse as fast as they can just to stay in one place, hover. An occasional reminder that a zap is coming might alter its actions. But it may still wait until the last moment to respond, or not. Much depends on the circumstances, including what it would have done anyway.

What, by the FSM, does this mean, Gaulin?

I think you should rewrite your tag line as;

"certain aspects of the universe are best explained by typing random words on the internet."

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,08:28

The paragraph did seem to disrupt word-flow:

Getting out of the way of an approaching shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future events. This was added by alternating between current angular time (by default room angle is from 0 to 15) and the next angular time frame ahead. The places that will soon become a shock hazard periodically become a place to avoid. This sequential on and off signaling causes a (over time) temporal decision to be made. The same works for swarming bees. Scouts that find a possible new place to build a hive are one at a time allowed to dance out the location for other bees to inspect. This way each option is first considered, before making a final decision. Otherwise all the bees would either swarm to the first site found or to different ones (instead of staying together).

io9.com/5866215/bee-swarms-behave-just-like-neurons-in-the-human-brain

The virtual critter cannot (like a swarm of bees) divide itself then go separate ways, therefore appropriate actions are taken simply by repeatedly presenting (in any sequence) what must be considered.

Exactly what it will choose to do at any given time is as hard to predict as it is in real animals. The only way to know for sure is read their mind, which (by adding RAM monitoring code) is possible to do to the ID Lab critter. But it's still not at all like the easy predictable behavior of zombie-like “programmed” actions from an algorithm that uses math to make it go in a given direction in response to an approaching hazard instead of simply showing the options to consider then leaving the decision up to it to figure out, on its own.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,11:14

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,08:28)

Getting out of the way of an approaching shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future events.

There is a word missing here, and the absence of the word renders the statement false.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,14:49

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 05 2015,11:14)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,08:28)

Getting out of the way of an approaching shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future events.

There is a word missing here, and the absence of the word renders the statement false.

Invisible?

Quote

Getting out of the way of an approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future events.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,15:28

And more precisely:

Quote

Getting out of the way of an approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Woodbine

Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,16:10

There is a knack to dodging invisible things.

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,16:48

Speaking of dodging, this one even has a ban-hammer that pounds on anything that requires they present of scientific evidence to back up their claims:

sandwalk.blogspot.com/2015/12/facts-and-theories-of-evolution.html?showComment=1449348192605#c5841667907488564173

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,17:51

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,15:28)

And more precisely:

Quote

Getting out of the way of an approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Sorry, wrong. Use of "invisible" just makes it more wrong, because so-called shock zones don't need to be invisible. The missing word, which should start the sentence, is "Intentionally." It's possible to get out of the way of "an approaching shock zone" by without intending to do so.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,18:17

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 05 2015,17:51)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,15:28)

And more precisely:

Quote

Getting out of the way of an approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Sorry, wrong. Use of "invisible" just makes it more wrong, because so-called shock zones don't need to be invisible. The missing word, which should start the sentence, is "Intentionally." It's possible to get out of the way of "an approaching shock zone" by without intending to do so.

Wow, you are now channeling Febble! I recall their being fond of that word being used wherever possible. And I have to agree that you are right. It can by sheer luck get out of the way, by intending to do something else.

This is definitely more precise:

Quote

Intentionally getting out of the way of the approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Thanks for the tip-off! It's now an impressive looking sentence. The word "environmental" might not be helping but I think the rest now looks marvelous.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,18:43

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,18:17)

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 05 2015,17:51)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,15:28)

And more precisely:

Quote

Getting out of the way of an approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Sorry, wrong. Use of "invisible" just makes it more wrong, because so-called shock zones don't need to be invisible. The missing word, which should start the sentence, is "Intentionally." It's possible to get out of the way of "an approaching shock zone" by without intending to do so.

Wow, you are now channeling Febble! I recall their being fond of that word being used wherever possible. And I have to agree that you are right. It can by sheer luck get out of the way, by intending to do something else.

This is definitely more precise:

Quote

Intentionally getting out of the way of the approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Thanks for the tip-off! It's now an impressive looking sentence. The word "environmental" might not be helping but I think the rest now looks marvelous.

The simple omission of that word (and concept) speaks volumes about your manifold failures to think things through, or your inability to do so. The sentence is still grammatically awkward, by the way.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

stevestory

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,20:15

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 05 2015,19:43)

The sentence is still grammatically awkward, by the way.

Nested prepositions is fairly low on the list of Shit What Gary Done Got Wrong.

N.Wells

Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,22:07

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,18:17)

This is definitely more precise:

Quote

Intentionally getting out of the way of the approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

There is the minor problem that some people don't like to unnecessarily (although even some of those will allow for the possibility on occasion like when one really needs to boldly go with the flow of a sentence that's kind of on a great roll, like this one, or at least which became somewhat of a TV tradition, although some others continue to object to them anyway) split a decorated with loosely attached prepositional phrases and dangling participles infinitive and run on-sentences with weird punctuation, and hyphenation that kind of pile up in a tangle before they finally get to the end and curl up and die.

There is also the much larger problem that what little of your crap is clear enough to be unambiguously understandable is either trivial or obviously false, as well as being very badly written. On the Sandwalk thread, you demonstrated that you:
- are still clueless about operational definitions,
- still don't have a valid definition for intelligence,
- still don't see the contradiction between self-similarity and emergence
- still can't get pronouns and numbers sorted out (alligators ... her mouth)
- still don't know what a theory is
- still don't get that most salmon spawn and die, and are therefore terrible role models as devoted parents
- still litter your text with gratuitous religious dogwhistles
- still make assertions left, right, and center without bothering to back anything up, and
- etc., ad nauseum

Posts: 5385
Joined: Oct. 2012

Posted: Dec. 05 2015,23:27

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 05 2015,18:43)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,18:17)

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 05 2015,17:51)

Quote (GaryGaulin @ Dec. 05 2015,15:28)

And more precisely:

Quote

Getting out of the way of an approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Sorry, wrong. Use of "invisible" just makes it more wrong, because so-called shock zones don't need to be invisible. The missing word, which should start the sentence, is "Intentionally." It's possible to get out of the way of "an approaching shock zone" by without intending to do so.

Wow, you are now channeling Febble! I recall their being fond of that word being used wherever possible. And I have to agree that you are right. It can by sheer luck get out of the way, by intending to do something else.

This is definitely more precise:

Quote

Intentionally getting out of the way of the approaching invisible shock zone requires the ability to (from past experience) predict future environmental events.

Thanks for the tip-off! It's now an impressive looking sentence. The word "environmental" might not be helping but I think the rest now looks marvelous.

The simple omission of that word (and concept) speaks volumes about your manifold failures to think things through, or your inability to do so. The sentence is still grammatically awkward, by the way.

Jim there is no need to overinflate your ego. I'm not writing a novel, you know.

That word addition did though help make things a bit brighter for me. This year I'm having a harder time than usual getting in the Christmas spirit, even though there is now even more to be thankful for including a new ID Lab making it to Planet Source Code.

I do not control the at work radio but WMAS (hi from the forum!) is now 100% Christmas music, I hear when the Hamada or other noisy machine I'm operating isn't running. One song more regularly on their playlist is though just as soothingly haunting, by the lyrics being foretelling of any cherished knowledge that has the power to ultimately become what each child still knows. The religious implications that make ID theory such a controversy help show what is at stake is whether even this relatively religiously neutral Christmas carol has any meaning left at all to future generations. I believe in science that helps explain who we are in a way that our religious thoughts can understand, so that even where you believe Jesus is a legend that began in myth there was none the less a "dream" that became cherished enough to survive the ages even though ruthless ancient Roman kings claiming they were God were devastated by the new way of thinking that via religion spread through their kingdom. Religion is now in a similar conflict with kings of science who see no need for keeping some Christmas "dream" alive, they just want to stomp it out too. Whatever makes such a dream unstompable becomes part of the legend, folklore that religion remembers. That is where there ia a "Trinity" left for science and theology to figure out. What makes Christmas bright for theologians is something new to experiment with, in the years to come. This at least shows what the theory explains for a "trinity" is scientifically possible, which is better than no coherent theory at all to back up such a concept. Being able to test that and other things to be scientifically true very much keeps the dream that goes with it alive. Where you realize the power to change the future that we are all messing with right now it's something you have to respect, or get squashed by. In this case though staying out of trouble is as easy as studying a theory before judging, simple things like that. Along with Dinosaur Train still doing great teaching what a hypothesis is the most vital science basics are becoming part of the cultural "dream" each child still knows. This can be taken religiously, or not. Either way the following remains true in a way that for at least myself makes this Christmas song unusually emotionally powerful. Please feel free to be equally overwhelmed by the realization that you along with me have made it here too, even Quack who caught me on a bad day with the "intelligent molecules" questioning but otherwise contributed to thoughts that helped develop the theory:

Trans-Siberian Orchestra - Christmas Canon (Video)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cP26ndrmtg

Christmas is much in part what we make of it. So even where you never found a religious reason to be joyful you at least have that for a sense of belonging in where the holiday goes from here, to be thankful for.

--------------
The theory of intelligent design holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection.

N.Wells

Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Dec. 06 2015,00:06

Quote

studying a theory before judging

We've looked at your not-a-theory, and it's crap, from one end to the other.

Quote

This at least shows what the theory explains for a "trinity" is scientifically possible, which is better than no coherent theory at all to back up such a concept.

No, that's not true. What you have is not a theory, and the pile of rubbish that it is is much worse than not having a theory.

Quote

Being able to test that and other things to be scientifically true

That's a large part of the problem: significant portions of what you have is neither testable nor scientific, and significant parts that are verifiable are wrong.

ChemiCat

Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

Posted: Dec. 06 2015,03:18

Quote

Jim there is no need to overinflate your ego. I'm not writing a novel, you know.[rest of the mish-mash redacted to save our sanity]

You are certainly writing some kind of fiction.

Which random word generator do you use, Gaulin? Your last post is as coherent as a very incoherent thing. I've heard better English from a falling-down drunk.

And you wonder why we don't take you seriously.

Woodbine

Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

Posted: Dec. 06 2015,03:35

Quote

One song more regularly on their playlist is though just as soothingly haunting, by the lyrics being foretelling of any cherished knowledge that has the power to ultimately become what each child still knows.

Anyone?

ChemiCat

Posts: 532
Joined: Nov. 2013

Posted: Dec. 06 2015,12:03

Quote

Anyone?

Sorry, I'll try later when I've drunk enough!

It isn't English, though.

The whole truth

Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012