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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 5, Return To Teh Dingbat Buffet< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,10:32   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 02 2016,07:39)
Quote (stevestory @ June 02 2016,09:32)
Is this UncommonDescent.com or Nature.com? It's so hard to tell!

Or BatshitCrazy.com

It's performing a valuable service for the people of Montserrat.  If Gordon wasn't on UD all day, he'd be marching up and down outside the post office, waving a sign and trying to hand out leaflets.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,15:05   

Quote (JohnW @ June 02 2016,10:32)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 02 2016,07:39)
Quote (stevestory @ June 02 2016,09:32)
Is this UncommonDescent.com or Nature.com? It's so hard to tell!

Or BatshitCrazy.com

It's performing a valuable service for the people of Montserrat.  If Gordon wasn't on UD all day, he'd be marching up and down outside the post office, waving a sign and trying to hand out leaflets.


  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,15:44   

Quote
73
clown fishJune 2, 2016 at 2:19 pm
Kairosfocus: “The oh that’s just an opinion, in that context, simply fails.”

How is it less of an opinion simply because there are other people who agree with you? There are many people who believe that 9/11 was orchestrated by George Bush and his cronies, and that vaccines cause autism, and that the moon landing was faked. Simply because they have fellow travellers who believe the same crack-pot idea does not make it true.

That the mind exists outside of the brain is also an opinion, with no evidence to support it. Yet the hypothesis that the mind is the sum of all physical aspects of the brain (electrical, chemical, structural, etc.) is an opinion supported by copious amounts of evidence.

Similarly, that morality is objective is an opinion with little evidence to support it other than wishful thinking, but the hypothesis that morality is subjective is an opinion with evidence to support it that goes back thousands of years. The fact that you must perform mental and logistic gymnastics in order to establish some shred of logical legitimacy for an objective morality should tell you something.


linky

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,16:11   

Quote
2
Robert ByersJune 1, 2016 at 10:17 pm
This has come up before. I say there is only human thought/intelligence going on in our heads. Language is a primitive use of a small number of sounds to express our thoughts. Our language is only in a spectrum more then animals. The difference is intelligence. Our memory organizes our language with no more effort then organizing our walking and not walking into each other.
In fact language doesn’t exist. just thoughts and sounds thereto. no different then your cat. Your cat is just dumb and has no reflective life.
they do speak less then they would however.


link to crack monkey

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2084
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,16:37   

Quote (stevestory @ June 02 2016,16:11)
Quote
2
Robert ByersJune 1, 2016 at 10:17 pm
This has come up before. I say there is only human thought/intelligence going on in our heads. Language is a primitive use of a small number of sounds to express our thoughts. Our language is only in a spectrum more then animals. The difference is intelligence. Our memory organizes our language with no more effort then organizing our walking and not walking into each other.
In fact language doesn’t exist. just thoughts and sounds thereto. no different then your cat. Your cat is just dumb and has no reflective life.
they do speak less then they would however.


link to crack monkey

Byers is Exhibit A in making the case that language doesn't exist.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,17:26   

Zeroseven is playing with matches he is unaware of.
Quote
zerosevenJune 2, 2016 at 3:53 pm
What’s that Shakespeare line about Sound and Fury? You guys go straight from baking cakes to Nazis without batting an eyelid! Despite the fact that the lot of humanity consistently improves over the centuries you and your fellow travellers always believe we are on the brink of the abyss. What is it with the apocalyptic fantasies? Take a breath and smell the roses.

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,17:46   

This is not going to end well.
Quote
clown fishJune 2, 2016 at 4:42 pm
Kairosfocus: “CF, I responded to 07 in 76: “Despite the fact that the lot of humanity consistently improves over the centuries you and your fellow travellers always believe we are on the brink of the abyss.” My remarks are fair corrective comment in that context — especially as the issue of the inherent instability of democracy and the potential impacts of manipulated marches of folly is a material issue discussed over the course of some weeks, anchored in HISTORY rather than “apocalyptic [–> loaded word] fantasies”. KF”

No, they are not fair corrective comment. 07’s claim about the lot of humanity consistently improving over the centuries is accurate. Average life expectancy has increased. Infant mortality has reduced. The rights and freedoms of individuals is higher now than it has ever been. Education and health care is affordable for all. Discrimination based on race, sex, sexual orientation and culture is no longer tolerated. All of this in the western civilization that you keep claiming is heading over the cliff. And not just any cliff. One the result in a broken back.

The fact that you are laying much of the blame of your dire predictions on SSM is just, forgive the inflammatory language, batshit crazy.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,17:50   

KF:  
Quote
The watershed-wedge is at work, the divide, polarise and ruin dynamic is underway, and the end of this is a shatteringly hard impact with rock-bottom reality.

Considering how well ID's wedge strategy worked out, I wouldn't worry.

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,20:13   

Quote
clown fishJune 2, 2016 at 7:10 pm
Kairosfocus: “CF, a wise person does not focus personal identity on morally questionable behaviour or attitudes, but instead starts from his or her morally governed, responsibly free nature and what that points to at the root of reality. Further to this such a person will not falsely claim as a right state backed power to intimidate others into supporting or enabling in morally dubious behavior”

So, when Rosa Parks and the black teens exerted their morally dubious behaviour, which it was characterized as at the time, they should have been ashamed of themselves?

What is most interesting is that the gays who are suing the bakers and florist and photographers and reprehensible county clerks, are being supported by people who, thirty years ago, would have supported the bakers, florists, photographers and reprehensible county clerks. That, my young man, really speaks volumes. Another story that hit the news recently was one in which a high school student, who was at the top of his class, was prevented by the school to give the valedictory address simply because he was gay. Most of the uproar against this bigoted action did not come from the LGBT community, it came from your basic “traditional” families. Things like that is what makes me optimistic for society in the future.

Too close to home?

  
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,20:55   

Not sure how the hammer hasn't come down yet.  :D

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,21:07   

Quote
1
Robert ByersJune 2, 2016 at 7:58 pm
Its stupid. Poverty is a reflection of dumber and badder people in general. Such people would, and should, draw conclusions about hopelessness etc and so be depressed.
genes might make failure more likely but depression etc is a function of memory interference. Something has got stuck in the memory. Depression is just another phobia. Same equation.
If depression is part of human conclusions then it would be that poverty people would be morte depressed. No need for gene alchemy.
Robert's just eating shrooms at this point I guess.

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,21:26   

Quote (stevestory @ June 02 2016,20:55)
Not sure how the hammer hasn't come down yet.  :D

Good clean living and a pure heart?

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,21:28   

Quote (stevestory @ June 02 2016,21:07)
Quote
1
Robert ByersJune 2, 2016 at 7:58 pm
Its stupid. Poverty is a reflection of dumber and badder people in general. Such people would, and should, draw conclusions about hopelessness etc and so be depressed.
genes might make failure more likely but depression etc is a function of memory interference. Something has got stuck in the memory. Depression is just another phobia. Same equation.
If depression is part of human conclusions then it would be that poverty people would be morte depressed. No need for gene alchemy.
Robert's just eating shrooms at this point I guess.

With a room temperature IQ, global warming can only work in his favour.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,21:42   

Re "With a room temperature IQ, global warming can only work in his favour."

Unless he lives too near the coast.

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,21:57   

Quote (Henry J @ June 02 2016,21:42)
Re "With a room temperature IQ, global warming can only work in his favour."

Unless he lives too near the coast.

But he will drown a smarter man.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,22:00   

Quote
113
clown fishJune 2, 2016 at 8:43 pm
Hi Trumper, for the longest time I was in favour of SSM but on the fence about adoption. But I have done some research and have personal experience with a few gay couples with children. In short, the challenges faced by kids raised by same sex parents has nothing to do with the lack of a male father or a female mother. It has more to do with the bigoted intolerance that they experience from close-minded, sadly often religious, homophobes.

It wasn’t too long ago that adoption agencies would not place a black child with a white couple, or vice versa. You don’t change bigoted attitudes by giving into them. You change them by facing them head on.

In case you haven’t figured it out yet, I now support the ability of same sex couples to adopt.
linky

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,22:33   

Baylor News in today's newspaper:
 
Quote
Starr resigns post at Baylor amid scandal

WACO, Texas -- Ken Starr resigned as Baylor University's chancellor on Wednesday, a week after the former prosecutor who led the investigation of the Bill Clinton - Monica Lewinsky scandal was removed as the school's president over its handling of sexual assault complaints against football p,ayers.

Starr, who will continue to teach at the law school, told "Outside the Lines" in an interview broadcast Wednesday that he didn't know about the allegations of sexual assault involving members of Baylor's vaunted football program until media reports first surfaced in 2013 during a player's trial.

"I didn't know about what was happening, but I have to, and I willingly do accept responsibility.  The captain goes down with the ship," said Starr, who was hired as president of the nation's largest Baptist university in 2010.


Starr didn't know about anything until media reports surfaced during a player's trial?  Maybe I'm naive, but I'd expect the president to hear about it at least by the morning after a football player got arrested.

Somebody please ask Kairosfocus if this is Absolute Morality at work?

  
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 02 2016,23:40   

Quote
clown fishJune 2, 2016 at 10:32 pm
Trumper: ““Given that I have only commented a couple weeks”… yikes.. so now you seem to have lost track of time too…. as you have been commenting for far more than just a couple weeks… can you actually state the truth or are you more at home with lying? Just how many ‘weeks’ has CF been commenting?“

Hmm. Since May 18. How long ago is that? Several months as you claim? Or closer to a couple weeks as I claimed?

So, you are proven wrong on me intentionally mangling names (Mung not withstanding) and now you are proven wrong on how long I have been commenting here. Your credibility must be taking a beating. Are there any other things you would like to accuse me of? Perhaps torturing babies? Or persecuting Christians?


Followed by Vividbleu posting this:  


I know that clown fish are serial hermaphrodites, but mass murderes???

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2016,04:10   

Quote (CeilingCat @ June 03 2016,04:33)
Baylor News in today's newspaper:
   
Quote
Starr resigns post at Baylor amid scandal

WACO, Texas -- Ken Starr resigned as Baylor University's chancellor on Wednesday, a week after the former prosecutor who led the investigation of the Bill Clinton - Monica Lewinsky scandal was removed as the school's president over its handling of sexual assault complaints against football p,ayers.

Starr, who will continue to teach at the law school, told "Outside the Lines" in an interview broadcast Wednesday that he didn't know about the allegations of sexual assault involving members of Baylor's vaunted football program until media reports first surfaced in 2013 during a player's trial.

"I didn't know about what was happening, but I have to, and I willingly do accept responsibility.  The captain goes down with the ship," said Starr, who was hired as president of the nation's largest Baptist university in 2010.


Starr didn't know about anything until media reports surfaced during a player's trial?  Maybe I'm naive, but I'd expect the president to hear about it at least by the morning after a football player got arrested.

Somebody please ask Kairosfocus if this is Absolute Morality at work?

Onlookers, ask yourself which is more likely - that taut-bodied, young Christian men whose morality is vouchsafed by the Blood of Jesus would lower themselves to sexual impropriety - or that the alleged female temptresses were wearing skirts that failed to cover the knee?

  
Acartia_Bogart



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(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2016,10:30   

Clown Fish has drawn the attention of Barry.
Barry Arrogant

  
Glen Davidson



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Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2016,18:24   

Quote
If ID wants to find support from more people in the scientific community, the motives of those who articulate other thoughtful responses to the challenges of evolution must not be equated with gutlessless.



Ted Davis

How else are they to both dismiss the evidence and state that anyone who disagrees with them is simply Satanic?

The one thing ID is good at is self-preservation, thus it disparages the evidence that undoes it.

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Henry J



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Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 03 2016,20:37   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 02 2016,20:57)
Quote (Henry J @ June 02 2016,21:42)
Re "With a room temperature IQ, global warming can only work in his favour."

Unless he lives too near the coast.

But he will drown a smarter man.

Why would a smarter man let him do that?  :p

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,08:50   

UD headline:

Quote
Millennials’ low commitment to intellectual freedom


Is UD millenial now?

Glen Davidson

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Zachriel



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Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,09:52   

Quote
mike1962: Care about your neighbor as you care about yourself

Leviticus 9:18

Laozi, c 500 B.C.

Mahabharata Shanti Parva 167:9

This is the basic morality. It appears over and over in the positive (“golden rule”) and negative form (“silver rule”) in ancient religious and philosophical sources.

So does the Iron Rule: Do unto others, before they do it unto you. The Iron Rule has been widely practiced throughout history.

--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Acartia_Bogart



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Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,11:29   

Quote
clown fishJune 4, 2016 at 10:25 am
“This is pure unadulterated sophistry. When the subjectivist claims that he is governed by “oughtness,” he really means that he is governed by *his* ought, not by *the* ought. In other words, he is not governed by oughtness at all because he is the governor of his own oughtness–a conveniently-crafted moral code that just happens to harmonize with his life style.”

You are really missing the point. There are only two possible realities:

1 –> objective morality exists.
2 –> objective morality does not exist.

Regardless of which one we personally believe, only one of these can be true. I assume that we all believe this to be true.

If objective morality exists then someone who believes that morality is subjective is, in reality, being governed by “the” ought. Conversely, if objective morality does not exist, people who believe in objective morality are actually being governed by “his/her” individual ought. Again, I think that we all agree with this. In short, how we are actually governed (“the” ought or “his/her” ought) is not affected in any way by whether we believe that morals are objective or subjective.

This being said, the argument for objective morality by invoking the IS/OUGHT nonsense is pointless. It is nothing more than mental self-gratification. That is why I prefer to follow the evidence. I like self-gratification as much as the next man, put it serves no purpose other than to make you feel good.



Mullings moral outrage to the reference to masturbation in 5, 4, 3...

  
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,13:12   

Do they have any answer for how everyone in history who believes in Absolute Morality, also happens to believe that theirs is the absolute one?

   
Acartia_Bogart



Posts: 2927
Joined: Sep. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,13:36   

Quote (stevestory @ June 04 2016,13:12)
Do they have any answer for how everyone in history who believes in Absolute Morality, also happens to believe that theirs is the absolute one?

No. They all appear to suffer from Mulingsitis. If you disagree with my morals, you are polarizing, strawmanning, red herring, Alinsjyite, Marxist, enabler, Stalinist, a Nazi... And pushing us all over the cliff to a broken back.

  
Lethean



Posts: 292
Joined: Jan. 2014

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,16:41   

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 04 2016,13:36)
 
Quote (stevestory @ June 04 2016,13:12)
Do they have any answer for how everyone in history who believes in Absolute Morality, also happens to believe that theirs is the absolute one?

No. They all appear to suffer from Mulingsitis. If you disagree with my morals, you are polarizing, strawmanning, red herring, Alinsjyite, Marxist, enabler, Stalinist, a Nazi... And pushing us all over the cliff to a broken back.


I get the feeling there's a thing or two missing from this list. Seems a little light.

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."


~Dave Hawkins~

  
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,17:01   

Quote
35
SeverskyJune 4, 2016 at 1:13 pm
William J Murray @ 21
Quote

Seversky @18: Because people and cultures and religions disagree about a thing doesn’t mean that thing itself is subjective in nature.

This has been pointed out several times in many different threads. Did you miss them all?

No, but there are disagreements and disagreements

There are disagreements which can be resolved by appealing to observations of the natural world and there are those that can’t. The first are about objective issues, the latter are subjective.

The debate about whether Newton’s or Einstein’s theories offered a better, more comprehensive account of the physics of the Universe was resolved by observation of that Universe, either directly or by experiment.

A disagreement about whether your taste in music is “better” than mine cannot be resolved in that way because taste in music is not a property of objective reality but of our response to that reality. It is subjective.

By the same token, our moral judgements or evaluations of human behaviors in the world are subjective. In physics, the speed of light can be measured to see if it is constant, irrespective of the motion of an observer. There is no similar way to measure whether it is always wrong to kill, regardless of circumstances.

I see no way to escape the subjectivity of morality. Lacking any evidence to the contrary, even a moral code handed down from on high inscribed on tablets of stone is just another – albeit divine (allegedly) – opinion.
'therefore, calling morality objective is a category error', I would have added. 10,000 times.

   
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 04 2016,17:04   

I have half a mind to sock up, but it's a pain, and wouldn't last much longer than it would take me to say, "Looking at UD and the comments, it's very, very clear that you guys like discussing gay sex WAY more than you like to talk about science. Why is that?"

:p

   
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