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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
RDK



Posts: 229
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,20:41   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 30 2009,19:30)
DO'L:
 
Quote
It all sounds a bit hysterical to me, and well below Dawkins’s usual standard of writing.

Words (almost) fail me.

As if she's ever read a paragraph of anything written by Dawkins.  And I mean actually read, not glance over the first couple lines and then go right back to jacking herself off with Dembski's hand.

--------------
If you are not:
Leviathan
please Logout under Meta in the sidebar.

‘‘I was like ‘Oh my God! It’s Jesus on a banana!’’  - Lisa Swinton, Jesus-eating pagan

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,21:05   

Quote (RDK @ Aug. 30 2009,21:41)
Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 30 2009,19:30)
DO'L:
   
Quote
It all sounds a bit hysterical to me, and well below Dawkins’s usual standard of writing.

Words (almost) fail me.

As if she's ever read a paragraph of anything written by Dawkins.  And I mean actually read, not glance over the first couple lines and then go right back to jacking herself off with Dembski's hand.

shoooooo

i wonder who has the hairier knuckles

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,21:33   

Quote (Barrett Brown @ Aug. 30 2009,21:39)
Howdy, guys-

I just wanted to note that I've written another article attacking Uncommon Descent, particularly Clive Hayden's strange rant regarding the Wired article. It may be found here. Hail Satan, etc.

Thanks,

Barrett Brown

barrett you make a habit of pointing out the stupidity of so and so at UD and next thing you know you will be reading Joe's blog and you'll know kairosfocus's name.  beware.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,22:07   

Just for fun:



--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,22:10   

midwife, implicit post of the latch!!!!!!  bravo!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,22:14   

Quote (Barrett Brown @ Aug. 30 2009,20:39)
Howdy, guys-

I just wanted to note that I've written another article attacking Uncommon Descent, particularly Clive Hayden's strange rant regarding the Wired article. It may be found here. Hail Satan, etc.

Thanks,

Barrett Brown

Nice ending, linking to iscid.org  :)

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,22:24   

Quote (RDK @ Aug. 30 2009,21:41)
Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 30 2009,19:30)
DO'L:
   
Quote
It all sounds a bit hysterical to me, and well below Dawkins’s usual standard of writing.

Words (almost) fail me.

As if she's ever read a paragraph of anything written by Dawkins.  And I mean actually read, not glance over the first couple lines and then go right back to jacking herself off with Dembski's hand.

The best was when she read the cover of The Selfish Gene and then ranted about how genes don't have feelings or somesuch.

Carlson, find me a link, babe. That was some classic TARD, right there.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Ptaylor



Posts: 1180
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,23:22   

Heh, IRQ Conflict has been in full cry lately. I found this little nugget in one of his tardalogues:
Quote
What the author has done here is mix up facts with stories of how they see things working. It is a myth. Just like Santa Clause. Both myths have historical facts from which it was derived. But from observable evidences coupled with known historical facts we can safely conclude that Santa Clause is a myth, in it’s modern form is nothing short of a story. And generally we frown upon adults who still believe it.

So there are adults in IRQ's circle who still believe in Santa. It's OK, though, he generally frowns on them. Usually.

--------------
We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2009,23:35   

he only frowns for a minute.  then he gives them his personal testimony.  

the result?




--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 462
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,00:04   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Aug. 30 2009,22:24)
Quote (RDK @ Aug. 30 2009,21:41)
Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 30 2009,19:30)
DO'L:
   
Quote
It all sounds a bit hysterical to me, and well below Dawkins’s usual standard of writing.

Words (almost) fail me.

As if she's ever read a paragraph of anything written by Dawkins.  And I mean actually read, not glance over the first couple lines and then go right back to jacking herself off with Dembski's hand.

The best was when she read the cover of The Selfish Gene and then ranted about how genes don't have feelings or somesuch.

Carlson, find me a link, babe. That was some classic TARD, right there.

A couple of years ago she was on Australian radio debating a local sceptic. D'OL was basically
"Dawkins Dawkins Dawkins Dawkins Dawkins Dawkins"

Sceptic - Have you read blah blah by Dawkins?

D'OL - I haven't read any Dawkins because I find him irrelevant and not a deep thinker.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,02:54   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 30 2009,23:22)
Heh, IRQ Conflict has been in full cry lately. I found this little nugget in one of his tardalogues:
 
Quote
What the author has done here is mix up facts with stories of how they see things working. It is a myth. Just like Santa Clause. Both myths have historical facts from which it was derived. But from observable evidences coupled with known historical facts we can safely conclude that Santa Clause is a myth, in it’s modern form is nothing short of a story. And generally we frown upon adults who still believe it.

So there are adults in IRQ's circle who still believe in Santa. It's OK, though, he generally frowns on them. Usually.


IRQ Conflicted.

Also, I may as well relay this urgent communique from Jerry:


--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,05:14   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Aug. 31 2009,00:58)
Clive,baby:        
Quote
IRQ Conflict,
           
Quote
Mario, some people simply have a bone to pick with science (ID specifically) they see it as a threat to their worldview and stop just short of trolling in order to appear honest.

   While still trying to chip away at the proponents character. Sad, but true.


I see it all the time. It’s a thin appearance of honesty, veiling their contempt. Many times you can just head on over to those uncommonly dense people’s thread (and I mean that literally), and see the contempt in plain daylight from these same commentors. It is sad, indeed.


Hi Clive! (and I mean that quite literally)

CLIVE YOU GIRLY MAN.... HOMO!

WHY DON'T YOU LET ME POST?

I HAVE BEEN A LONG TIME SUPPORTER OF ID OVER CHANCE AND NECESSITY BUT WHENEVER I POST ALL I GET IS

"YOUR COMMENT IS BEING SHOWERED WITH ZYKLON B"

MY DESIGN DETECTOR SENSES THE NEXT STEP IS PREMATURE CREMATION.

IN FUTURE PLEASE SEND DEATH NOTICES TO

SANTA CLAUS
NORTH POLE  H0H 0H0
CANADA

THANK YOU. dt

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,05:30   

Quote (Henry J @ Aug. 31 2009,01:30)
Quote
He also told me the funniest T-Shirt available there was "There are no Kangaroos in Austria"

Not even in zoos?

Henry

I tried asking one of the locals across from the pub when I went for a walk over the weekend and the mob just keep eating the grass like I wasn't even there, typical Australians they don't give a marsupials behind what's in Austrias zoos neither did the Kangaroos.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Amadan



Posts: 1337
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,05:56   

O la la...
A Snivly quotes some woo-addled god-botherers:

 
Quote
Relativity and quantum physics, which serve as the pillars of contemporary science, and more recently chaos theory, are now presenting us with a radically new physical view of the world in which positivistic, deterministic, and materialistic philosophies no longer have secure places. They present us with deeper, greater, and more mysterious aspects of nature.


Deferring to the people here who actually know about these things, but isn't the lesson to be drawn from all those .... ummm ... measurements 'n shit they do in relativity and quantum physics and chaos stuff that it looks pretty weird and unintuitive, but you'll never know anything useful about it unless you

(i)   don't factor in tooth fairies or Unknowable Secrets (no positivism here, nossir)
(ii)  assume that what you see is governed by one or more consistenly acting processes (determinism, anyone?)
(iii) can rely on the same evidence that the next fellow can (and our friend Materialism takes a bow).

Tard.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,06:39   

Alfred Russel writes about D'Arcy Thompson and laments the demise of mathematical explanations of biological phenomena.

You might hope that someone would reply with something about evo-devo, but no such luck.  Instead, his replies are:

1) DATCG blames it all on the atheists who quote Jefferson but forget to mention that the wall of separation is from a letter to the Danbury Baptists and that Jefferson supported purchasing Bibles for *schools.

2) IRQ Conflict quotes 13 verses from Hosea.

3) Tajimas D. says Thompson's work demonstrates intelligence in biology like Ruelle's and Takens' work demonstrates intelligence in turbulence.  That is to say, "not at all."

Looks like two measures of Science all the Way followed by a whiff of sarcasm.

*Edit: I originally put Indians because Jefferson did support sending Missionaries to the long suffering Indians because he thought it would make them easier to rule over.  I note that DATCG didn't mention the Jefferson Bible, where Jefferson bought a cheap Bible, cut out all the parts he didn't like or thought were BS (the entire Old Testament and a lot of the New).  You can still buy copies of it.  It's a very small book.

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,07:57   

Quote
Jefferson bought a cheap Bible, cut out all the parts he didn't like or thought were BS (the entire Old Testament and a lot of the New).

You really had one smart president there...

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,08:37   

Quote (Barrett Brown @ Aug. 30 2009,20:39)
Howdy, guys-

I just wanted to note that I've written another article attacking Uncommon Descent, particularly Clive Hayden's strange rant regarding the Wired article. It may be found here. Hail Satan, etc.

Thanks,

Barrett Brown

That is an absolutely beautiful, yet brillant slam-banging of the UD nut-bus!  Your word imagery was a plus, and I could clearly picture Clive, Denyse, and GEM of CRZY laughing as the bus drove over the cliff.  :)

I give a two-opposable thumbs up , and a must read.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,09:44   

Quote (Amadan @ Aug. 31 2009,13:56)
O la la...
A Snivly quotes some woo-addled god-botherers:

   
Quote
Relativity and quantum physics, which serve as the pillars of contemporary science, and more recently chaos theory, are now presenting us with a radically new physical view of the world in which positivistic, deterministic, and materialistic philosophies no longer have secure places. They present us with deeper, greater, and more mysterious aspects of nature.


Deferring to the people here who actually know about these things, but isn't the lesson to be drawn from all those .... ummm ... measurements 'n shit they do in relativity and quantum physics and chaos stuff that it looks pretty weird and unintuitive, but you'll never know anything useful about it unless you

(i)   don't factor in tooth fairies or Unknowable Secrets (no positivism here, nossir)
(ii)  assume that what you see is governed by one or more consistenly acting processes (determinism, anyone?)
(iii) can rely on the same evidence that the next fellow can (and our friend Materialism takes a bow).

Tard.

OH YEAH? HOMO.

DARWINISM IS A CONSPIRACY BY DRUG COMPANIES THAT TRAIN DESIGNED  FLAGELLUMS ON BACTERIA  TO USE QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT TO CAUSE CHAOS IN THE HUMAN HOST WHICH TRANSFERS ALL ITS SPARE CASH DIRECTLY TO THE DRUG COMPANY BANK ACCOUNTS.

JUST PRAYING DIRECTLY TO THOSE DESIGNERS WON'T WORK BECAUSE THEY'RE MATERIALISTS.

THE LESSON TO BE LEARNT HERE IS THAT IF ID WINS NON MATERIAL DRUGS WILL BE AVAILABLE FREE TO ALL.
dt

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,10:08   

Quote
Joseph: Accepting micro but rejecting macro is like saying I can drive my car to the store but I can’t drive it to the Moon.

Except we have evidence that starts at the store and ends at the Moon, that is, before and after shots. We have pictures of the vehicle leaving Earth.



And snapshots of the tourists on the Moon.



We have postcards that fill in some of the in-betweens.



We may not have evidence of every point on the continuum, but we can investigate and continue to fill in more and more details of the voyage.



So you might claim that we can't get from fish to humans, but then we can show you fossils with intermediate characteristics, such as Tiktaalik or mammal-like reptiles or Lucy. And though we can't show every point on every branch of the tree of life, the closer we look, the more we find.

Follow the trail of Cheetos® crumbs!

There may not be a crumb at every point of your search, but your hunt will be rewarded.



--------------

You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,10:20   

Quote (Zachriel @ Aug. 31 2009,10:08)
Follow the trail of Cheetos® crumbs!

Is that sort of like the Appalachian Trail of Mother Nature?

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Goffr



Posts: 15
Joined: Feb. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,10:31   

Obleary said
   
Quote
Pass the cheese popcorn

Is that anything like CheesyPoofs™? Do all the IDists have some kind of cheese and puffed grain fetish? Or..... any chance that the morphodyke actually is DaveTard?

It would be so awesome if there was some kind of multiple personality thing going on, and DaveTard is just a character like Buck from United States of Tara.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,10:33   

Quote (Goffr @ Aug. 31 2009,11:31)
Obleary said
   
Quote
Pass the cheese popcorn

Is that anything like CheesyPoofs™? Do all the IDists have some kind of cheese and puffed grain fetish? Or..... any chance that the morphodyke actually is DaveTard?

It would be so awesome if there was some kind of multiple personality thing going on, and DaveTard is just a character like Buck from United States of Tara.

lololol

that might explain the self-loathing

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,15:01   

projection

Quote


97

IRQ Conflict

08/30/2009

12:22 am

yakky d,

There are decent people that have been raised as Muslims yes. But by far they are the minority. Why do you think it is that the so-called ‘moderate’ Muslims rarely if ever cry out at the atrocities committed by adherents to Islam? It’s not rocket science.


lololol

Quote


98

yakky d

08/30/2009

12:58 am

IRQ Conflict,

   There are decent people that have been raised as Muslims yes. But by far they are the minority.

When you say decent Muslims are by far in the minority, about what percentage are you talking about? Give me a rough estimate.

Also, to what extent are your views about Muslims determined through person-to-person interaction rather than reports from the media? Do you have many Muslim friends or coworkers?


just priming the pump for the Mullah hisself

Quote
seph

08/30/2009

10:31 am

IRQ,

I have been to muslim countries.

Muslims by far are very decent people.

It is only the very few who do bad things.

Why don’t the moderates speak out?

Two reasons that I can see:

1- They do not want to die

2- It is up to Allah to judge and punish.

But anyway if there are 100 million muslims and 1% are “bad” people, that makes 1 million.

1 million is 1000 people in 1000 cities.

Sure that seems like a lot but in context it isn’t.

Now look at Christians- they fight each other. And they form groups that don’t like different skin colors.

BTW Islam, Christianity and Judaism trace back to Abraham- IOW they all worship the same “God”.


Now, onlookers, don't forget that Joe has claimed to actually be Muslim.  So take all that horseshit with grains of salt.

Clive,baby shits hisself, a little bit.

Quote


100

Clive Hayden

08/30/2009

10:49 am

No more discussion about Muslims.


hahahahaha

unless you are accusing some evil athiest of not being mean enough to muslims.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,15:45   

carlson can you find the link where joe claimed to be muslim?  if i remember correctly it was at ARN??? Louis?  deadman?  any of you crotchedy old folks around back then?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,16:09   

Quote
100

Clive Hayden

08/30/2009

10:49 am

No more discussion about Muslims.


Why?

CS Lewis is Muslim
I've been sitting on this idea for a little bit; when I work with Muslim kids I often explain to them that The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is not a Christian allegory, so much as it is a Muslim one, specifically a Shi'ah Muslim allegory. Let me walk you through my ill-thought thinking.

First, we know Lewis was opposed to a live-action version of the Chronicles, calling the representation of Aslan “blasphemy,” strong words from a religious person. The presence of an anti-iconic can be felt in such a statement.

Second, we know that the lion is named Aslan, from Persian for the word for “lion.” (Haroon, shame on you for not picking that up in your linguistic analysis.) Now, one of the other Persian words for “lion” is sher (pronounced like “share”), and one of the names for the first Shi'ah Imam, Ali ibn Abi Talib, is sher-e khuda, The Lion of God (asadullah in Arabic). Most Persian speaking places have large Shi'ah populations, and of course Iran is mostly Shi'ah. So this is our first clue that Lewis is writing a Shi'ah Muslim allegory.

Now, the obvious question is what about Aslan's death and resurrection, does that not scream the death and resurrection of Jesus? Possibly. Remember that while Jesus' death was witnessed by many, his resurrection was seen by few. In the case of Aslan, the reverse seems to be true; his death was seen by few, but his re-appearance was seen by many. Along the lines of symbolic reading, imagine if you will that it is not Aslan that re-appears, but the essence of Aslan. This essence is like the nur-e khuda (Light of God) present in the Imams. One physical form may pass, but the light is made apparent in a new form (mazhar). From a perspective of continual guidance, nothing has changed. To call on Ali is to call on all the Imams. Aslan is a warrior, guide, and leader; Jesus was not a lion, but lamb (not in a pejorative sense), who taught a deep spiritual message. The war that Jesus fought was not in the way that Aslan fights his war; Aslan's battles are the battles of Imam Ali, the Lion of God. His re-appearance is the appearance of the next Imam, the re-appearance of the nur.

So, I submit to you that Lewis was writing a Shi'ah Muslim allegory in his work, not a Christian one.


from here:

http://www.islamicate.com/2005/12/cs_lewis_is_mus.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,16:12   

"Unitarians (a sect never to be mentioned without a special respect for their distinguished intellectual dignity and high intellectual honour) are often reformers by the accident that throws so many small sects into such an attitude. But there is nothing in the least liberal or akin to reform in the substitution of pure monotheism for the Trinity. The complex God of the Athanasian Creed may be an enigma for the intellect; but He is far less likely to gather the mystery and cruelty of a Sultan than the lonely god of Omar or Mahomet. The god who is a mere awful unity is not only a king but an Eastern king. The heart of humanity, especially of European humanity, is certainly much more satisfied by the strange hints and symbols that gather round the Trinitarian idea, the image of a council at which mercy pleads as well as justice, the conception of a sort of liberty and variety existing even in the inmost chamber of the world. For Western religion has always felt keenly the idea “it is not well for man to be alone.” The social instinct asserted itself everywhere as when the Eastern idea of hermits was practically expelled by the Western idea of monks. So even asceticism became brotherly; and the Trappists were sociable even when they were silent. If this love of a living complexity be our test, it is certainly healthier to have the Trinitarian religion than the Unitarian. For to us Trinitarians (if I may say it with reverence)–to us God Himself is a society. It is indeed a fathomless mystery of theology, and even if I were theologian enough to deal with it directly, it would not be relevant to do so here. Suffice it to say here that this triple enigma is as comforting as wine and open as an English fireside; that this thing that bewilders the intellect utterly quiets the heart: but out of the desert, from the dry places and, the dreadful suns, come the cruel children of the lonely God; the real Unitarians who with scimitar in hand have laid waste the world. For it is not well for God to be alone."

GK Chesterton


Chesterton had a good waffle on Islam, Clivebaby.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,16:22   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 31 2009,16:09)
Why?

CS Lewis is Muslim
I've been sitting on this idea for a little bit; when I work with Muslim kids I often explain to them that The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe is not a Christian allegory, so much as it is a Muslim one, specifically a Shi'ah Muslim allegory. Let me walk you through my ill-thought thinking.

First, we know Lewis was opposed to a live-action version of the Chronicles, calling the representation of Aslan “blasphemy,” strong words from a religious person. The presence of an anti-iconic can be felt in such a statement.

Second, we know that the lion is named Aslan, from Persian for the word for “lion.” (Haroon, shame on you for not picking that up in your linguistic analysis.) Now, one of the other Persian words for “lion” is sher (pronounced like “share”), and one of the names for the first Shi'ah Imam, Ali ibn Abi Talib, is sher-e khuda, The Lion of God (asadullah in Arabic). Most Persian speaking places have large Shi'ah populations, and of course Iran is mostly Shi'ah. So this is our first clue that Lewis is writing a Shi'ah Muslim allegory.

Now, the obvious question is what about Aslan's death and resurrection, does that not scream the death and resurrection of Jesus? Possibly. Remember that while Jesus' death was witnessed by many, his resurrection was seen by few. In the case of Aslan, the reverse seems to be true; his death was seen by few, but his re-appearance was seen by many. Along the lines of symbolic reading, imagine if you will that it is not Aslan that re-appears, but the essence of Aslan. This essence is like the nur-e khuda (Light of God) present in the Imams. One physical form may pass, but the light is made apparent in a new form (mazhar). From a perspective of continual guidance, nothing has changed. To call on Ali is to call on all the Imams. Aslan is a warrior, guide, and leader; Jesus was not a lion, but lamb (not in a pejorative sense), who taught a deep spiritual message. The war that Jesus fought was not in the way that Aslan fights his war; Aslan's battles are the battles of Imam Ali, the Lion of God. His re-appearance is the appearance of the next Imam, the re-appearance of the nur.

So, I submit to you that Lewis was writing a Shi'ah Muslim allegory in his work, not a Christian one.


from here:

http://www.islamicate.com/2005/12/cs_lewis_is_mus.html

Intriguing. Another possibility is Lewis drew from Muslim imagery because he really wanted Jesus to be a warrior Messiah instead of a peaceful one. Christianity has long been conflicted by the disconnect between Jesus as a messenger of peace and the desire Christians have to go around smiting in God's name, hence their fatwa envy. In that case, Aslan is what Lewis wanted Jesus to be, instead of what he was taught Jesus was.

Although you're probably right. My reply was even more ill-thought out.  ;)

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(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,16:26   

the last battle i thought made it clear that Tash was Allah and Aslan the christian god.

in this analysis then what of Tash?

Tashlan?

there are biblical precedents for those ideas in Lewis.  i'm not sure how to think about these things under the scheme above.

ETA  on second thought its all just another jack tell bull shite and the green knights and the pips.  if it aint revelations there i don't know what.  

i really did think that there were a bunch of turks and moors and scimitars in that last narnarnia book thar.  and they bowed on rugs and what-all, with camels and stuff.  or not, i don't rememb.er  but i always thought it was antichristophoric histrionics told from the perspective of great mums wet nurse.  the mistress's son of the first imperial whoremongler

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(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,16:51   

Quote (Chayanov @ Aug. 31 2009,16:22)
Intriguing. Another possibility is Lewis drew from Muslim imagery because he really wanted Jesus to be a warrior Messiah instead of a peaceful one. Christianity has long been conflicted by the disconnect between Jesus as a messenger of peace and the desire Christians have to go around smiting in God's name, hence their fatwa envy. In that case, Aslan is what Lewis wanted Jesus to be, instead of what he was taught Jesus was.

And another possibility is that Lewis just liked dressing up in feeling fresh and pretty in the dress robe! :)




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deadman_932



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(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2009,17:51   


So this means Clive,baby represents just another publicity problem the C.S. Lewis community has to endure. When, oh, when will this ever end.

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