Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Uncommonly Dense Thread 5

Posted: Jan. 02 2015,13:47

Quote

Will Darwin’s followers get a court order forbidding the discussion of non-Darwinian evolution in schools?

will Dense ever get a clue?

JohnW

Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Jan. 02 2015,17:31

Quote (Kristine @ Dec. 30 2014,12:39)

Quote (JohnW @ Dec. 30 2014,13:53)

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 30 2014,11:42)

Quote

785
MapouDecember 30, 2014 at 1:28 pm

daveS:

Quote

So, just as if we were measuring out two quantities of flour, we conclude that the set of real numbers is larger than the set of rational numbers.

No, I still don’t like it since I don’t believe for a moment that that there is such a thing as “the set of all real numbers”. One of the problems with many mathematicians is their refusal to acknowledge that we don’t live in a changeless universe. They inexplicably believe that operations occur in no time at all. So when they say “For every natural number n there is another number n+1, they ignore the fact that n+1 is an operation that has a duration. The expression “for every n” is an inexplicable magical poofery that assumes the very thing (infinity) that it is trying to prove or describe. It is self-referential fruitcake nonsense. It’s crackpottery in the not-even-wrong category.

Now, if you had said that the expansion of one set is faster than the expansion of another set, then there would be no contradictions at all.

This guy is hopelessly confused.

linky

I think he realises he's painted himself into a corner, but can't admit he's made a fool of himself. Like Joe, with less swearing.

Amusingly, his "mathematics is wrong if you can't physically realise it in the universe" act is much more hyper-materialist than anything Teh Evil Darwinists have ever argued.

CLAPCLAPCLAPCLAPCLAP! :D
This is a nail, this is a hammer, the board is UD, nailed across the shutter of ID's paradox! Does in WL Craig, as well. POTW?

The thread churns on. 954 posts now. Still no aneurysm from Mapou...

Quote

Same to you, daveS. Same to you. ahahaha…AHAHAHA…ahahaha…

... but he's getting there.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Kristine

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Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 02 2015,19:21

Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 02 2015,13:28)

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 01 2014,22:18)

Slimey Sal will let his dogma mangle every branch of accepted physics:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/physics....-at-you

As if.

What's the opposite of "clickbait"?

Clickbail.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

sledgehammer

Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

Posted: Jan. 03 2015,00:38

Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 02 2015,17:21)

Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 02 2015,13:28)

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 01 2014,22:18)

Slimey Sal will let his dogma mangle every branch of accepted physics:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/physics....-at-you

As if.

What's the opposite of "clickbait"?

Clickbail. :p

Mock 'n Scroll?

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The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein �(H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

sparc

Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Jan. 03 2015,05:30

He is back:

Quote

5 GilDodgen January 2, 2015 at 9:22 pm

Some time ago Tom sent me autographed copies of his books which I read from cover to cover, and which I treasure to this day. He invited me to be interviewed on his radio show, which I did. Just prior to the interview I called him up. He was conducting a class (finals week, as I recall) and I told my story to him and his class (on speaker phone) about my conversion from militant atheism to Christianity, and the role ID played in that conversion.

It is said that one can’t be argued into The Kingdom, and I suppose to some extent that is true, but reason, evidence, science, mathematics, and apologetics certainly played a major role in my conversion. I still give a lecture I entitle, “I no longer have enough faith to be an atheist.” Rationality, alone, has permanently inoculated me from ever returning to the darkness of my former atheism, and people like Tom Woodward have supplied the vaccination.

Gil

Could somebody please re-start the Dodgenator.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

k.e..

Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Jan. 03 2015,07:59

Quote (sparc @ Jan. 03 2015,13:30)

He is back:

Quote

5 GilDodgen January 2, 2015 at 9:22 pm

Some time ago Tom sent me autographed copies of his books which I read from cover to cover, and which I treasure to this day. He invited me to be interviewed on his radio show, which I did. Just prior to the interview I called him up. He was conducting a class (finals week, as I recall) and I told my story to him and his class (on speaker phone) about my conversion from militant atheism to Christianity, and the role ID played in that conversion.

It is said that one can’t be argued into The Kingdom, and I suppose to some extent that is true, but reason, evidence, science, mathematics, and apologetics certainly played a major role in my conversion. I still give a lecture I entitle, “I no longer have enough faith to be an atheist.” Rationality, alone, has permanently inoculated me from ever returning to the darkness of my former atheism, and people like Tom Woodward have supplied the vaccination.

Gil

Could somebody please re-start the Dodgenator.

Easy, just suck the fundy exhaust pipe. Hard.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~ DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Reciprocating Bill

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Posted: Jan. 03 2015,11:06

Lewontin!

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

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- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

Zachriel

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Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 03 2015,12:15

Just saying ...

Quote

News: True, some people might visit our site only to read The Best of Joe Troll and Joe Moron. But we think Joe + Joe’s fans would be happier at another site… and we would not want serious commenters of any sort to be discouraged by those guys’ slow-class antics. So I am happy with serious commenters whatever their orientation—but am a mod and can borf the Joes.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

Kristine

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Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Jan. 03 2015,13:05

Heh.
CharlieM:

Quote

Go and watch a bird building a nest where you will see a demonstration of something being designed. You are welcome to believe that this has come about through a series of unguided changes to the genomes of its ancestors. But this would be a matter of faith which is in no way demonstrated. What it does demonstrate is that nature is capable of producing designed objects in advance of the need for them. We humans are also capable of designing objects for future use and this process begins in the mind and is then realised physically.

I have no problem with seeing the merits of ID and I have no problem with believing that life evolves. What I do have a problem with is the unjustified assumption that evolution must be a blind, unguided process.

Welp, we're back to the same old questions, aren't we? At what point does "design" *jazz hands!* enter the bird's genome - at the level of the cell or higher, or subcellular? - since I assume

that Charlie does not mean to call the nest building evolution? Because, um, wow, that nest looks nothing like its mother!

It might actually be a different species.

And all of this raises again the question of sexual selection (esp by females), which IDists seem to never discuss. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.) Is sexual selection design, or background naturalism like uncarved mountain faces? Anyone? Anyone? Godfather of ID (Philip Johnson)?

Cue Buddy Designy and the Crickets.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

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Joined: June 2011

Posted: Jan. 03 2015,14:30

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 03 2015,17:15)

Just saying ...

Quote

News: True, some people might visit our site only to read The Best of Joe Troll and Joe Moron.

No.No. Dense Moron too.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

k.e..

Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Jan. 04 2015,07:16

Quote (Kristine @ Jan. 03 2015,21:05)

Heh.
CharlieM:

Quote

Go and watch a bird building a nest where you will see a demonstration of something being designed. You are welcome to believe that this has come about through a series of unguided changes to the genomes of its ancestors. But this would be a matter of faith which is in no way demonstrated. What it does demonstrate is that nature is capable of producing designed objects in advance of the need for them. We humans are also capable of designing objects for future use and this process begins in the mind and is then realised physically.

I have no problem with seeing the merits of ID and I have no problem with believing that life evolves. What I do have a problem with is the unjustified assumption that evolution must be a blind, unguided process.

Welp, we're back to the same old questions, aren't we? At what point does "design" *jazz hands!* enter the bird's genome - at the level of the cell or higher, or subcellular? - since I assume :p that Charlie does not mean to call the nest building evolution? Because, um, wow, that nest looks nothing like its mother! ;) It might actually be a different species. :D

And all of this raises again the question of sexual selection (esp by females), which IDists seem to never discuss. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that.) Is sexual selection design, or background naturalism like uncarved mountain faces? Anyone? Anyone? Godfather of ID (Philip Johnson)?

Cue Buddy Designy and the Crickets.

Um yeah. Dancing leads to you know what. So the best thing to do is refer to the logos of de lord Samuel 18:25 set the virgin bride price at a hundred Philistine foreskins to keep the Darwinists at bay.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~ DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Jan. 05 2015,10:47

Phoodoo calls out KF over his repeated censorship:

Quote

51
phoodooJanuary 5, 2015 at 10:29 am
Did Kairofocus decide he was going to have the last word on the Zero is Even thread and the discussions about Cantor, by giving his lengthy declaration about what he believes is true, and then promptly close the thread to any other opinions-with no explanation as to why?

If so, that is really truly bad form, and smacks of some of the complaints others with opposing views have made about this site. Very bad Kairofocus,

I was enjoying that thread too because Phoodoo and Joe where showing how ID attracts general science denying crackpots.

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Posted: Jan. 05 2015,13:49

It seems that there is some rubbish that even KF finds offensive. He blames the tone of the thread, but UD has never really objected to the tone of true believers.

I think perhaps KF was embarrassed, if that's possible.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

tsig

Posts: 339
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Jan. 05 2015,14:44

Quote (Driver @ Dec. 27 2014,06:40)

The 'Is Zero Even' thread continues to be great fun. Joe, Mapou, and phoodoo doing a great three stooges act.

This especially made me laugh, from Mapou:

Quote

Someone should defecate on Cantor's grave

He is admitting his argument is crap.

tsig

Posts: 339
Joined: Aug. 2006

771 comments of zachriel and a few others trying to explain to the UD crowd basic set theory.

Posted: Jan. 05 2015,14:48

Quote (Woodbine @ Dec. 30 2014,10:44)

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 30 2014,15:24)

A monkey teaching a sock-puppet. That's ID!

Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

Posted: Jan. 05 2015,22:59

Re the discussion in Dense's latest sad little cast at science, Lise Meitner. Austrian by birth but lived and worked in Germany. First to realise the implications of e=mc^2. Should have won the Nobel prize at some point for her work contributing to the discovery of nuclear fission.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

Posted: Jan. 05 2015,23:14

Mapou is just saying:

Quote

Well, I suggest you get ready for the surprise of your life. There is indeed revolutionary science hidden in metaphorical (i.e., occult) passages contained in certain books of the Bible. Just saying.

link

(btw, that is the thread I was referring to in the last post.)

ETA bonus Byers:

Quote

i think anglo american civilization being good was a reason for being dominant in intellectual results.

It is true that YHWH loves a good invasion, a little slavery, and the odd genocide.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

The whole truth

Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Jan. 06 2015,02:18

Quote (Driver @ Jan. 05 2015,21:14)

Mapou is just saying:

Quote

Well, I suggest you get ready for the surprise of your life. There is indeed revolutionary science hidden in metaphorical (i.e., occult) passages contained in certain books of the Bible. Just saying.

link

(btw, that is the thread I was referring to in the last post.)

ETA bonus Byers:

Quote

i think anglo american civilization being good was a reason for being dominant in intellectual results.

It is true that YHWH loves a good invasion, a little slavery, and the odd genocide.

And check out about gordo's comment right after mapou's.

To all: Some people here think that I'm out of line and/or "borderline psychotic". Well, to those of you who think so I say that you should instead aim such accusations toward the ABSOLUTELY INSANE IDiotic RELIGIOUS FREAKS at UD and elsewhere. They are WAY beyond "borderline psychotic" and they deserve everything I could possibly dish out and more.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

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Posted: Jan. 06 2015,03:34

Quote (The whole truth @ Jan. 06 2015,07:18)

Quote (Driver @ Jan. 05 2015,21:14)

Mapou is just saying:

Quote

Well, I suggest you get ready for the surprise of your life. There is indeed revolutionary science hidden in metaphorical (i.e., occult) passages contained in certain books of the Bible. Just saying.

link

(btw, that is the thread I was referring to in the last post.)

ETA bonus Byers:

Quote

i think anglo american civilization being good was a reason for being dominant in intellectual results.

It is true that YHWH loves a good invasion, a little slavery, and the odd genocide.

And check out about gordo's comment right after mapou's.

To all: Some people here think that I'm out of line and/or "borderline psychotic". Well, to those of you who think so I say that you should instead aim such accusations toward the ABSOLUTELY INSANE IDiotic RELIGIOUS FREAKS at UD and elsewhere. They are WAY beyond "borderline psychotic" and they deserve everything I could possibly dish out and more.

Psychotic behaviour deserves r and r, and often medication. Psychosis isn't de facto immoral behaviour.

Public announcement for better understanding of mental health made, KF's posts are frequently immoral as well as divorced from reality.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

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Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Jan. 06 2015,12:42

I'm not convinced that cranks are necessarily insane.

I think cranks are just at the wrong end of the bell curve when it comes to the ability to judge one's own competence.

Mapou believes he is smarter than Cantor and Einstein, but is unable to demonstrate his competence with simple puzzles, some of which are high school algebra problems.

Even Kariosfocus wept.

I'm not sure self-delusion is necessarily insanity.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Jan. 06 2015,14:34

Muh Pribbeldged Plammet!!!1111

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....pace%29

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"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
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JohnW

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Posted: Jan. 06 2015,14:40

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 06 2015,12:34)

Muh Pribbeldged Plammet!!!1111

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....pace%29

~~Earth-like planets are rare. It's a miracle that we exist at all. This proves that god designed the universe especially for us, and that ID is correct.~~Earth-like planets are common. It's a miracle that they're all over the place. This proves that god designed the universe especially for us, and that ID is correct.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

J-Dog

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Posted: Jan. 06 2015,16:44

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 06 2015,14:34)

Muh Pribbeldged Plammet!!!1111

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....pace%29

That is absolutely funny, ironic, appropriate and So Totally ID!

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

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Posted: Jan. 07 2015,12:36

Quote (Richardthughes @ Jan. 06 2015,14:34)

Muh Pribbeldged Plammet!!!1111

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article....pace%29

It's not easy being blue.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

stevestory

Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Jan. 07 2015,13:30

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 06 2015,13:42)

I'm not convinced that cranks are necessarily insane.

I think cranks are just at the wrong end of the bell curve when it comes to the ability to judge one's own competence.

Mapou believes he is smarter than Cantor and Einstein, but is unable to demonstrate his competence with simple puzzles, some of which are high school algebra problems.

Even Kariosfocus wept.

I'm not sure self-delusion is necessarily insanity.

It's hard to distinguish between total idiots (mapou, joe G) and the mentally ill (gary gaulin). at best it's guesswork. But that's really all we have left for entertainment, ID and the Wedge Strategy etc having failed so spectacularly.

JohnW

Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Jan. 07 2015,14:25

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 07 2015,11:30)

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 06 2015,13:42)

I'm not convinced that cranks are necessarily insane.

I think cranks are just at the wrong end of the bell curve when it comes to the ability to judge one's own competence.

Mapou believes he is smarter than Cantor and Einstein, but is unable to demonstrate his competence with simple puzzles, some of which are high school algebra problems.

Even Kariosfocus wept.

I'm not sure self-delusion is necessarily insanity.

It's hard to distinguish between total idiots (mapou, joe G) and the mentally ill (gary gaulin). at best it's guesswork. But that's really all we have left for entertainment, ID and the Wedge Strategy etc having failed so spectacularly.

There's a lot of overlap*. Mapou, for example, appears to be an idiot and mentally ill.

* Perhaps the set-theory geniuses at UD could do us a Venn diagram.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Jan. 07 2015,14:32

I suspect that what distinguishes Mapou from Gary Gaulin is Gary's disfluency. I have seen court filings by schizophrenics that showed some of the same thought disorganization, but Gary seems able to code, even if the results don't demonstrate what he says they demonstrate.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Kattarina98

Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

Posted: Jan. 07 2015,17:27

Quote (sparc @ Jan. 03 2015,12:30)

He is back:

Quote

5 GilDodgen January 2, 2015 at 9:22 pm

Some time ago Tom sent me autographed copies of his books which I read from cover to cover, and which I treasure to this day. He invited me to be interviewed on his radio show, which I did. Just prior to the interview I called him up. He was conducting a class (finals week, as I recall) and I told my story to him and his class (on speaker phone) about my conversion from militant atheism to Christianity, and the role ID played in that conversion.

It is said that one can’t be argued into The Kingdom, and I suppose to some extent that is true, but reason, evidence, science, mathematics, and apologetics certainly played a major role in my conversion. I still give a lecture I entitle, “I no longer have enough faith to be an atheist.” Rationality, alone, has permanently inoculated me from ever returning to the darkness of my former atheism, and people like Tom Woodward have supplied the vaccination.

Gil

Could somebody please re-start the Dodgenator.

The Dodgenator says it's e1.

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Jan. 08 2015,12:41

Muslim Joe Gallien:

Quote

144
JoeJanuary 8, 2015 at 6:31 am
rvb8- What happened in France is a tragedy. What people need to realize is that if you piss off emotionally unstable people bad things tend to happen. To me only imbeciles do things like that.

And Joe should know, being a pissed off emotionally unstable imbecile he can see all sides of this one.

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"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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