cogzoid
Posts: 234
Joined: Sep. 2005
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Feeling bored, I'm going to post a recap of the arguments between Evo and the rest of the board on the nature of the amount of Helium vs. Hydrogen in the universe. It is a small, minor point. But, the nature of the argument really illlustrates the stubbornness of our resident troll.
First Evo makes the offending statement:
| Quote | | In that case the cause is the predominent element after the big bang helium gas... period.. beyond dispute. |
But people point out that, in fact, Hydrogen is the current element du jour. Me:
| Quote | | Hydrogen is, always was, and will always be the most abundant element in our universe. |
Evo is asked to show his sources. He names three:
And reads into the papers the following conclusion:
| Quote | | So helium was first, 90% formed then prior to hydrogen according to the several incontrovertable sources. |
It's pointed out to Evo that indeed the websites do not agree with him:
| Quote | "During the first second or so of the universe, protons, neutrons, and electrons, the building blocks of atoms, formed"
Proton = nucleus of hydrogen atom. Helium is made by fusing these, so there's no way it could come first. |
Evo is resilient to change:| Quote | | Helium, duterium and lithium were the first to be created and that is the concensus of these people and the entire field. |
and starts forming his strawman:| Quote | | I guess your point is that every element in the universe is essentially hydrogen because they have protons in their nucleus. Lets just rewrite the periodic table so only elements without protons are really elements because the're really all hydrogen in various forms. |
Up against repeated criticism he makes his point finer:| Quote | | ...helium, lithium and the isotope of hydrogen duterium was first and of those helium was dominent IN THE FIRST TWO MINUTES IDIOT. |
Once again it is pointed out that this is not the case. From one of Evo's sources:| Quote | At 3 min: Era of Nuclear Reactions
# Nuclei can begin to hold together, e.g.
p+ n => 2H + [photon]
# At this time the baryons are divided into about 87% protons 13% neutrons.
At 3.5 min End of Nuclear Reactions
neutrons have been "used-up" forming 4He
Universe is now 90% H nuclei( p+) & 10% He nuclei |
But Does this stop Evo? Nope, then he starts to make the "nucleus not atom" argument.| Quote | | The NUCLEUS of the most common isotope of the hydrogen atom is a single proton. (Got that.. just the nucleus not the entire atom.) |
And then to continue the argument he establishes this:| Quote | | Helium on the other hand was formed as a complete atom with all its electrons and everything from elementary particles which of course includes electrons, protons and nutrons. Two protons, two nutrons (electrically neutral) and two electrons, atomic mass of four. |
GTC points out that according to one of Evo's sources Helium didn't form into an atom until much later than the 2 minutes Evo suggested: | Quote | 10^6yr
4000K
Era of Recombination
nuclei & electrons "recombine to form atoms
Universe becomes transparent |
Finally, though, it seems people have made a difference in Evo's thinking:| Quote | | Thus under your assumption hydrogen became the human brain of course along with the other life molecules through a process of chemical predestination? |
But, the question remains. Will Evo ever ADMIT to being wrong about his ideas? He made a big fuss over Midnight's error in another thread. He even went through the trouble to write a letter for Midnight to post. I wonder if he can do the same when it is his own errors that are pointed out. One also wonders if all of the insults he spewed at his educators were warranted. If one looks through Evo's posts you will find many instances of "moron" and "idiot" even when the poster he is replying to was patiently pointing out an error of Evo's. Will he apologize for those unnecessary insults too?
My guesses are No, and No. Care to prove me wrong, Evo?
I hope this recap has brought a slight smile to your face, and has illuminated the behaviors of stubborn, uneducated people.
Have a great day.
-Dan
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