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Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:19   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:03)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:56)
wants me to prove a negative. Only anti-science cowards do that shit.

derp
 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 15 2019,21:01)
You clearly don't know what science entails, timmy.

A longer neck needs a stronger heart to pump the blood up to the brain. Longer nerves to reach that brain. Special valves to keep the blood flow equal when bending down to drink.

And all of that has to be done via genetic modifications- and there is no way to test that.

Can't test it, it ain't science

And given the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations" blind watchmaker evolution is out.


double derp

timmy is a pathetic shit eating freak.

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y282870

That shows what I actually said on Dec 15 @ 21:01

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:20   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

Which is why we’ve been inundated by evidence for ID.

You have been. Your willful ignorance means nothing to me.

Start with the genetic code and all that is required to carry it out.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:21   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

That said you don't have a mechanism capable of producing eukaryotes so all of your claims are for shit

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:26   

Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".  Support the claim fat boy.  The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

What about them?

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:29   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

What about them?

That is one criteria for determining Kinds, you ignorant ass.

You don't even have a mechanism capable of producing body plans. You lose

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:30   

You clearly don't know what science entails, timmy.

A longer neck needs a stronger heart to pump the blood up to the brain. Longer nerves to reach that brain. Special valves to keep the blood flow equal when bending down to drink.

And all of that has to be done via genetic modifications- and there is no way to test that.

Can't test it, it ain't science

And given the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations" blind watchmaker evolution is out.


cue timmy screaming that I didn't answer his cowardly questions

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:32   

Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
 
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

Joke the shit-filled coward runs for the question again.  :D

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

RUN Joke the coward, RUN!   :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:36   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
   
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
       
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

:D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds



How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes. There isn't any evidence that genetic changes can produce a giraffe from a non-giraffe.

Now if the giraffe was first, and it was able to mate with a non-giraffe to produce fertile offspring, then devolution may be able to account for the okapi.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:37   

You clearly don't know what science entails, timmy.

A longer neck needs a stronger heart to pump the blood up to the brain. Longer nerves to reach that brain. Special valves to keep the blood flow equal when bending down to drink.

And all of that has to be done via genetic modifications- and there is no way to test that.

Can't test it, it ain't science

And given the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations" blind watchmaker evolution is out.

cue timmy screaming that I didn't answer his cowardly questions - another prediction fulfilled.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:43   

Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:30)
And all of that has to be done via genetic modifications- and there is no way to test that.

It's already been tested and confirmed cowardly shit-filled Joke.  I posted several scientific papers with the genetic evidence and you ran from them as always.

Why are you always such a shit-filled coward?

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,18:48   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
   
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
       
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes.

Remember your own words fat boy

 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.


Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:10   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:43)
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:30)
And all of that has to be done via genetic modifications- and there is no way to test that.

It's already been tested and confirmed  I posted several scientific papers with the genetic evidence and you ran from them as always.

You posted fossil evidence. You never posted any genetic evidence that demonstrates the transformations required are possible.

Genetic similarity is not evidence for common ancestry. Mechanisms determine patterns, moron

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:11   

You clearly don't know what science entails, timmy.

A longer neck needs a stronger heart to pump the blood up to the brain. Longer nerves to reach that brain. Special valves to keep the blood flow equal when bending down to drink.

And all of that has to be done via genetic modifications- and there is no way to test that.

Can't test it, it ain't science

And given the paper "Waiting for TWO Mutations" blind watchmaker evolution is out.

cue timmy screaming that I didn't answer his cowardly questions - another prediction fulfilled.


Common design explains the similarities

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:16   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
   
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
       
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

:D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds



How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes. There isn't any evidence that genetic changes can produce a giraffe from a non-giraffe.

Now if the giraffe was first, and it was able to mate with a non-giraffe to produce fertile offspring, then devolution may be able to account for the okapi.

Holy shit that is some pure uncut TARD!

Is Joe so angry at us that he’s trying to make us die laughing?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:18   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
   
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
       
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes.

Remember your own words

   
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.


Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

No one can support the claim that they are reachable. And given sexual reproduction it's a given they aren't. Sexual reproduction includes sexual selection. Given that and varying environments populations are going to be stuck in a wobbling stability:
Quote
Sexuality has brought joy to the world, to the world of the wild beasts, and to the world of flowers, but it has brought an end to evolution. In the lineages of living beings, whenever absent-minded Venus has taken the upper hand, forms have forgotten to make progress. It is only the husbandman that has improved strains, and he has done so by bullying, enslaving, and segregating. All these methods, of course, have made for sad, alienated animals, but they have not resulted in new species. Left to themselves, domesticated breeds would either die out or revert to the wild state—scarcely a commendable model for nature’s progress.


Quote
Natural Selection, which indeed occurs in nature (as Bishop Wilberforce, too, was perfectly aware), mainly has the effect of maintaining equilibrium and stability. It eliminates all those that dare depart from the type—the eccentrics and the adventurers and the marginal sort. It is ever adjusting populations, but it does so in each case by bringing them back to the norm. We read in the textbooks that, when environmental conditions change, the selection process may produce a shift in a population’s mean values, by a process known as adaptation. If the climate turns very cold, the cold-adapted beings are favored relative to others.; if it becomes windy, the wind blows away those that are most exposed; if an illness breaks out, those in questionable health will be lost. But all these artful guiles serve their purpose only until the clouds blow away. The species, in fact, is an organic entity, a typical form, which may deviate only to return to the furrow of its destiny; it may wander from the band only to find its proper place by returning to the gang.

Everything that disassembles, upsets proportions or becomes distorted in any way is sooner or later brought back to the type. There has been a tendency to confuse fleeting adjustments with grand destinies, minor shrewdness with signs of the times.

It is true that species may lose something on the way—the mole its eyes, say, and the succulent plant its leaves, never to recover them again. But here we are dealing with unhappy, mutilated species, at the margins of their area of distribution—the extreme and the specialized. These are species with no future; they are not pioneers, but prisoners in nature’s penitentiary.- geneticist Giuseppe Sermonti in "Why is a Fly Not a Horse?"


All you have is magic to get out of that. All you have is magic to produce eukaryotes.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:19   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 16 2019,19:16)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
 
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
     
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

:D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds



How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes. There isn't any evidence that genetic changes can produce a giraffe from a non-giraffe.

Now if the giraffe was first, and it was able to mate with a non-giraffe to produce fertile offspring, then devolution may be able to account for the okapi.

Holy shit that is some pure uncut TARD!

Your ignorance and inability to think isn't a reflection on me, dipshit.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:21   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

Again with prove a negative. timmy is clearly a scientifically illiterate troll.

It would be up to the people making the claim of common ancestry to support it, dumbass

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:25   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:19)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 16 2019,19:16)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
 
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
     
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

:D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds



How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes. There isn't any evidence that genetic changes can produce a giraffe from a non-giraffe.

Now if the giraffe was first, and it was able to mate with a non-giraffe to produce fertile offspring, then devolution may be able to account for the okapi.

Holy shit that is some pure uncut TARD!

Your ignorance and inability to think isn't a reflection on me, dipshit.

But yours is a reflection on you.

You just conceded that genetic changes can turn what you insist is one body plan (giraffe) into another (okapi).  Your insistence that it can only go in that direction shows that you don’t have the first clue about the chemistry of genetic change.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:30   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:21)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

Again with prove a negative.

Once again Joke makes a really stupid claim, runs like a coward when asked to back it up.

I'm sure everyone knows Joke's signature move by now.   :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:36   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:30)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:21)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

Again with prove a negative.

Derp

timmy thinks science says you have to prove a negative. That because timmy will only support timmy's belligerence

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:38   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 16 2019,19:25)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:19)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 16 2019,19:16)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
   
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
       
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

:D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds



How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes. There isn't any evidence that genetic changes can produce a giraffe from a non-giraffe.

Now if the giraffe was first, and it was able to mate with a non-giraffe to produce fertile offspring, then devolution may be able to account for the okapi.

Holy shit that is some pure uncut TARD!

Your ignorance and inability to think isn't a reflection on me, dipshit.



You just conceded that genetic changes can turn what you insist is one body plan (giraffe) into another (okapi).  Your insistence that it can only go in that direction shows that you don’t have the first clue about the chemistry of genetic change.

Except I didn't say genetic changes were solely responsible, did I?

And yes, losing functional information is much easier than gaining it. That's why we have so much evidence for genetic diseases and deformities than we do for function-gaining changes.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:39   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:18)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
       
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
           
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
             
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
               
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes.

Remember your own words

     
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.


Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

No one can support the claim that they are reachable.

Joke the lying ignorant dumbass fails again!

 
Quote
A multi-calibrated mitochondrial phylogeny of extant Bovidae (Artiodactyla, Ruminantia) and the importance of the fossil record to systematics.
Bibi et al
BMC Evol Biol 13, 166 (2013) doi:10.1186/1471-2148-13-166

Abstract:

Background
Molecular phylogenetics has provided unprecedented resolution in the ruminant evolutionary tree. However, molecular age estimates using only one or a few (often misapplied) fossil calibration points have produced a diversity of conflicting ages for important evolutionary events within this clade. I here identify 16 fossil calibration points of relevance to the phylogeny of Bovidae and Ruminantia and use these, individually and together, to construct a dated molecular phylogeny through a reanalysis of the full mitochondrial genome of over 100 ruminant species.

Results
The new multi-calibrated tree provides ages that are younger overall than found in previous studies. Among these are young ages for the origin of crown Ruminantia (39.3–28.8 Ma), and crown Bovidae (17.3–15.1 Ma). These are argued to be reasonable hypotheses given that many basal fossils assigned to these taxa may in fact lie on the stem groups leading to the crown clades, thus inflating previous age estimates. Areas of conflict between molecular and fossil dates do persist, however, especially with regard to the base of the rapid Pecoran radiation and the sister relationship of Moschidae to Bovidae. Results of the single-calibrated analyses also show that a very wide range of molecular age estimates are obtainable using different calibration points, and that the choice of calibration point can influence the topology of the resulting tree. Compared to the single-calibrated trees, the multi-calibrated tree exhibits smaller variance in estimated ages and better reflects the fossil record.




The giraffidae are the 3rd group from the top.

There ya go Joke.  Genetic evidence of the relatedness of the okapi and giraffe.

Joke Gallien will always be an ignorant dumbass.  Always.  :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:41   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:39)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:18)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
       
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
           
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
               
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
               
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes.

Remember your own words

       
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.


Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

No one can support the claim that they are reachable.

Joke the lying ignorant dumbass fails again!

 
Quote
A multi-calibrated mitochondrial phylogeny of extant Bovidae (Artiodactyla, Ruminantia) and the importance of the fossil record to systematics.
Bibi et al
BMC Evol Biol 13, 166 (2013) doi:10.1186/1471-2148-13-166

Abstract:

Background
Molecular phylogenetics has provided unprecedented resolution in the ruminant evolutionary tree. However, molecular age estimates using only one or a few (often misapplied) fossil calibration points have produced a diversity of conflicting ages for important evolutionary events within this clade. I here identify 16 fossil calibration points of relevance to the phylogeny of Bovidae and Ruminantia and use these, individually and together, to construct a dated molecular phylogeny through a reanalysis of the full mitochondrial genome of over 100 ruminant species.

Results
The new multi-calibrated tree provides ages that are younger overall than found in previous studies. Among these are young ages for the origin of crown Ruminantia (39.3–28.8 Ma), and crown Bovidae (17.3–15.1 Ma). These are argued to be reasonable hypotheses given that many basal fossils assigned to these taxa may in fact lie on the stem groups leading to the crown clades, thus inflating previous age estimates. Areas of conflict between molecular and fossil dates do persist, however, especially with regard to the base of the rapid Pecoran radiation and the sister relationship of Moschidae to Bovidae. Results of the single-calibrated analyses also show that a very wide range of molecular age estimates are obtainable using different calibration points, and that the choice of calibration point can influence the topology of the resulting tree. Compared to the single-calibrated trees, the multi-calibrated tree exhibits smaller variance in estimated ages and better reflects the fossil record.




The giraffidae are the 3rd group from the top.

There ya go Joe.  Genetic evidence of the relatedness of the okapi and giraffe.

Related via a COMMON DESIGN, just a Linnaeus had it.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:43   

AGAIN, Mechanism determines the pattern. Providing a pattern absent of the mechanism(s) is pure folly if you expect it to represent something real.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:43   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:36)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:30)
 
Quote (JoKe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:21)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

Again with prove a negative.

Once again Joke makes a really stupid claim, runs like a coward when asked to back it up.

I'm sure everyone knows Joke's signature move by now.   :D

Darn he pulled my pants down again.  :(

My genetic evidence for common ancestry is right above Joke.

Where is your evidence such genetic ancestry is impossible?  

RUN JOKE RUN!   :D    :D    :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:45   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:41)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:39)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:18)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
         
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
             
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
             
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
                 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
                 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes.

Remember your own words

         
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.


Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

No one can support the claim that they are reachable.

Joke the lying ignorant dumbass fails again!

   
Quote
A multi-calibrated mitochondrial phylogeny of extant Bovidae (Artiodactyla, Ruminantia) and the importance of the fossil record to systematics.
Bibi et al
BMC Evol Biol 13, 166 (2013) doi:10.1186/1471-2148-13-166

Abstract:

Background
Molecular phylogenetics has provided unprecedented resolution in the ruminant evolutionary tree. However, molecular age estimates using only one or a few (often misapplied) fossil calibration points have produced a diversity of conflicting ages for important evolutionary events within this clade. I here identify 16 fossil calibration points of relevance to the phylogeny of Bovidae and Ruminantia and use these, individually and together, to construct a dated molecular phylogeny through a reanalysis of the full mitochondrial genome of over 100 ruminant species.

Results
The new multi-calibrated tree provides ages that are younger overall than found in previous studies. Among these are young ages for the origin of crown Ruminantia (39.3–28.8 Ma), and crown Bovidae (17.3–15.1 Ma). These are argued to be reasonable hypotheses given that many basal fossils assigned to these taxa may in fact lie on the stem groups leading to the crown clades, thus inflating previous age estimates. Areas of conflict between molecular and fossil dates do persist, however, especially with regard to the base of the rapid Pecoran radiation and the sister relationship of Moschidae to Bovidae. Results of the single-calibrated analyses also show that a very wide range of molecular age estimates are obtainable using different calibration points, and that the choice of calibration point can influence the topology of the resulting tree. Compared to the single-calibrated trees, the multi-calibrated tree exhibits smaller variance in estimated ages and better reflects the fossil record.




The giraffidae are the 3rd group from the top.

There ya go Joe.  Genetic evidence of the relatedness of the okapi and giraffe.

Related via a COMMON DESIGN, just a Linnaeus had it.

Joke lies and makes his usual unsupported lame excuse to run from the genetic evidence.

RUN JOKE RUN!   :D    :D    :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:46   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:43)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:36)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:30)
   
Quote (JoKe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:21)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

Again with prove a negative.

Darn he pulled my pants down again

You love to walk like a penguin  :(

My genetic evidence for common ancestry is right above   

Your evidence for a COMMON DESIGN is there. You don't have a mechanism capable of producing the alleged common ancestor, let alone its alleged descendants.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 4833
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:47   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:43)
AGAIN, Mechanism determines the pattern.

That's right Joke.  Evolution through common descent explains the pattern.

"Joke pulled more Creationist stupidity out of his ass" doesn't explain the pattern.   :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

  
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:47   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:45)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:41)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:39)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:18)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:48)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:36)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:32)
           
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:29)
             
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:26)
               
Quote (Joke G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:21)
                 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,18:05)
                   
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,18:00)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.

You claim okapi and giraffes are different Biblical "kinds".    The onus is on you.

DIFFERENT BODY PLANS.

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

You'll never answer because besides being a coward you're full of shit.

Joke Gallien, world's biggest shit-filled cowardly YEC :D

That is one criteria for determining Kinds

How different do they have to be to be different Biblical "kinds"?

Unreachable via genetic changes.

Remember your own words

         
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,17:46)
In science the onus is on the people making the claim to support it.


Support the claim the changes between the common ancestor and the extant species are genetically unreachable.

No one can support the claim that they are reachable.

Joke the lying ignorant dumbass fails again!

     
Quote
A multi-calibrated mitochondrial phylogeny of extant Bovidae (Artiodactyla, Ruminantia) and the importance of the fossil record to systematics.
Bibi et al
BMC Evol Biol 13, 166 (2013) doi:10.1186/1471-2148-13-166

Abstract:

Background
Molecular phylogenetics has provided unprecedented resolution in the ruminant evolutionary tree. However, molecular age estimates using only one or a few (often misapplied) fossil calibration points have produced a diversity of conflicting ages for important evolutionary events within this clade. I here identify 16 fossil calibration points of relevance to the phylogeny of Bovidae and Ruminantia and use these, individually and together, to construct a dated molecular phylogeny through a reanalysis of the full mitochondrial genome of over 100 ruminant species.

Results
The new multi-calibrated tree provides ages that are younger overall than found in previous studies. Among these are young ages for the origin of crown Ruminantia (39.3–28.8 Ma), and crown Bovidae (17.3–15.1 Ma). These are argued to be reasonable hypotheses given that many basal fossils assigned to these taxa may in fact lie on the stem groups leading to the crown clades, thus inflating previous age estimates. Areas of conflict between molecular and fossil dates do persist, however, especially with regard to the base of the rapid Pecoran radiation and the sister relationship of Moschidae to Bovidae. Results of the single-calibrated analyses also show that a very wide range of molecular age estimates are obtainable using different calibration points, and that the choice of calibration point can influence the topology of the resulting tree. Compared to the single-calibrated trees, the multi-calibrated tree exhibits smaller variance in estimated ages and better reflects the fossil record.




The giraffidae are the 3rd group from the top.

There ya go Joe.  Genetic evidence of the relatedness of the okapi and giraffe.

Related via a COMMON DESIGN, just a Linnaeus had it.

Derp

Related via a COMMON DESIGN, just a Linnaeus had it.

What you need and don't have is a mechanism capable of producing eukaryotes.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
Joe G



Posts: 11109
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 16 2019,19:49   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2019,19:47)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 16 2019,19:43)
AGAIN, Mechanism determines the pattern.

That's right Joke.  Evolution through common descent explains the pattern.

And yet family trees are examples of evolution through common descent and they don't fit that pattern.

Not only that "evolution through common descent" is too vague and proves that you are an ignorant coward, shitting itself

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Genetic mutations are mistakes"- evolutionary biology

"Genetic mutations aren't mistakes"- Intelligent Design and Timothy Horton

   
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