Joined: Jan. 2006
|But...there were no neural cells present....so couldnt we just as easily say that the creation of an ovum is the beginning of the development of your CNS?|
There are two things wrong with this. First, are you claiming neural cells are conscious? Secondly, if the sperm and egg are consider the beginning of new human life then we must follow the "life come from life" scenario. This means that you are really nothing more than an individuated outgrowth of ONE very big and very old LIVING ENTITY. We can just as well say that your parents who produced the egg and sperm that produced your CNS was the start of your life. We must then necessarily go all the way back to the beginning and claim that's were YOUR CNS began its development. Silly, I say.
|It is very deniable...since you cannot even seem to give us a strict definition for life.....|
Are you claiming my children weren't the specific zygotes that came together at their conception?
|My point was that in the case of developing systems, that are transitioning from one to another, or are slowly being created...."speicific point of beginning" is not applicable...of course you can feel free to debate this....|
All development requires a beginning. We agree that there are transition periods in the human life cycle. What we can't agree on is when is started. I think we've already shown the problems with claiming no beginning or a beginning before conception. That only leaves a beginning at conception or after conception. I see NO EVIDENCE to suggest is starts anywhere other than at conception. If you have evidence it starts after conception then present it.
|a beginning is not always a specific point in time...and I have pointed that out to you several times. I have mentioned houses, biological systems, and boats....|
What is this twisted fascination with defining a word on your own terms and then refusing to use the common definition of the word?
A beginning is not a specific point in time? What? What is it then?
|This is your point and your wrong...you arbitrarly chose conception as the "beginning of development" of being human. Of course you could have chosen any point along the causal chain from the moment the mother developed ovaries to the point at which the baby started moving in the womb. You just decided that you wanted to choose conception...because it is the first time that 2 become 1.|
I already been through the ABSURDITY of claiming that YOUR LIFE began before your conception. If YOUR LIFE started with the making of your mom's ovaries then there is no reason to say that it didn't REALLY start with your grandma's ovaries and then all the way back to the original living entity. You are a mere outgrowth of one very big and very old SINGLE ENTITY.
|So...as you said...you assume that human life begins at conception...because you want it to. There is no logic to this position. A zygote lacks every single feature that would normally classify an organism as sentient life. You ignore this. You ignore the fact that a zygote is not even capable of controlled movement....yet a sperm is in fact capable...so shouldnt a sperm(which more closely resembles a human) be considered the "beginning"?|
Then you've just stepped on your last argument. If the zygote lacks then certainly the sperm and egg lack, too. You can't possibly claim a transitional life cycle and then claim the zygote represent LESS development than sperm and egg.
|You point to the lack of evidence in support of any other point of origin of humanity...and conclude that you must therefore be correct. You are simply attempting to rationally validate your personal position...and despite all of the information we have kindly thrown your way....you ignore it all and plod on ignorantly.|
What information? Sperm and egg are more developed than a zygote? Your life really began with your mother's ovaries which means it really began with your granny's ovaries whcih really means it began with some apes ovaries? Your life could have only began AT conception or AFTER conception and yet you have NO EVIDENCE to LEAD YOU AWAY from AT conception. If you do, present it!
|Good luck to you...but Im not going to argue with someone who thinks I am challenging his beliefs any longer...|
I will never change the way you, or anyone else believes...but if you are a sane person...I can point out the fallacies in your reasoning. I can correct your logical mistakes. I can provide you with better information....
But you have forsaken all of those...because they attack your beliefs....
Simple, simple, simple man...standing in a room with his ears covered until it is his turn to speak.
You're not attacking my beliefs. You feel like I'm attacking yours. And of course you are right! I see no reason or rational in your arguments. I simply see someone that pleads ignorance and thereby retains a solid PERSONAL justification for abortion.