Joined: June 2011
|Quote (OgreMkV @ Aug. 20 2013,01:18)|
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|Quote (Badger3k @ Aug. 20 2013,00:55)|
|Quote (Driver @ Aug. 19 2013,17:48)|
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|Quote (Lou FCD @ Aug. 18 2013,17:30)|
|I think my favorite part of all this is the argument that the report is neither second-hand nor anonymous because PZ knows the accuser.|
Y'all enjoy that crack you're smoking.
A second hand report is a report about someone else's experience, yes?
A first hand report is a report in the words of the person who experienced it, yes?
So, either the account is first hand or PZ fabricated or altered the account.
No, a first hand account is where someone tells you something that happened to them. Directly.
Perhaps you are confused by the fact the reporter is anonymous.
"At a conference, Mr. Shermer coerced me into a position where I could not consent, and then had sex with me. I can’t give more details than that, as it would reveal my identity, and I am very scared that he will come after me in some way. But I wanted to share this story in case it helps anyone else ward off a similar situation from happening. I reached out to one organization that was involved in the event at which I was raped, and they refused to take my concerns seriously. Ever since, I’ve heard stories about him doing things (5 different people have directly told me they did the same to them) and wanted to just say something and warn people, and I didn’t know how. I hope this protects someone."
is presented as a first-hand account, the content of an email written by the person who experienced the event. Her direct words. Unless PZ Myers forged the account, it is first hand.
Perhaps the subtlety is whats confusing you. PZ has (supposedly, but for the sake of argument we can go with it) a first hand account. He is giving it to us. We are getting a second hand account. It's simple.
So when a newspaper publishes (gives to us) the words of a witness to an event, that is a second hand account?
If PZ had published the account as a guest post by "Jane Doe" would that be a second hand account?
Is a transcript of a conversation a second-hand account?
Is the transcript of an email a second-hand account?
Unless a newspaper reporter knows that a person has been convicted by a trial, then they always use "alleged" or "suspected" or other weasel words that prevent them from being sued. Myer didn't.[/quote]
PZ Myers doesn't call Shermer a rapist in that blog post. I am not sure that he has said Shermer is a rapist at all. Please link to where he says that if he does.
| nothing more than a claim by Myers based on an anonymous report of rape and another anonymous report of Shermer refilling someone's wine glass.|
Plus the statement by Brian Thompson, Shermer's former colleague, the corroboration of the rape by a witness (anonymous) on PZ's blog, naomibaker's story, and rkzilla's story.
The statement by Brian Thompson carries a lot of weight, and I don't know of a reason he is not credible.
|You may trust PZ explicitly. I don't.|
I've not been aware of him having a particular problem telling the truth, and I only see him personally losing out in the long run from publishing the account.
Give me a reason to think he fabricated it, and I might change my mind.
|You may think PZ is a hero.|
Actually, I don't.
Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray
[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin