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Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: June 27 2019,20:43    Silver Asiatic is trying to argue that it is reasonable for a pregnant woman who gets in an argument with someone, gets shot and loses the baby, to be charged with manslaughter. Quote I didn’t find that insane at all, in fact, quite reasonable. The law is just saying that a pregnant woman has a greater responsibility to avoid that which would put her child at risk of death. Engaging someone in a fight while carrying a child is a very dangerous activity. Link

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,02:47    Quote (k.e.. @ June 27 2019,09:04) Quote (stevestory @ June 27 2019,16:37) I can never remember who the secondary players are at UD because if they're science-based people they have to change names as they get banned. So I haven't been reading Mimus's comments, but maybe I should start:   Quote 21 Mimus June 26, 2019 at 7:27 pm I’m not sure what the point of this is. For what it’s worth. I genuinely think you are ignorant of the literature on isolating mechanisms. I’m not sure why else you could write the post that you did. Certainly most people posting at UD don’t know much evolutionary biology. There is not shame in that, of course. It’s only holding very strong opinions on topics that you are ignorant about that I object to. :p  :p  :p Objection your honor! On what grounds, repetition, hesitation or deviation? -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,07:46    Quote 41 Mimus June 28, 2019 at 2:25 am “high level” means “more abstract”, dealing with something in more general terms then a low level approach. So yes, I do think a Wikipedia page is high-level. I don’t think anything I post here is particularly difficult to understand. But I must admit I do find reactions like SA’s above disappointing. I wish people could learn about the real biology the missing out on, instead of launching into these defensive rant about unrelated topics. So, yes I probably will stop wasting my time here. linky

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,10:06    ET: Quote So what? Being a human is a process in which the beginning is very important. And the beginning is where humans are the most vulnerable and should be protected by all. Me (in my head, at least): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v....jg3AqIQ -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,10:35    Quote 119 Brother Brian June 28, 2019 at 9:25 am KF Quote BB, by personalising, you are ducking the obvious fact; one BTW established long since by embryology and never overturned since. When egg and sperm cells fuse to form a zygote, a new human life begins. A bit more than half the time, the child is not even the same sex as his mother. I have no idea why you think it is important that the fetus may be a different sex than the mother. Yes, once a zygote is formed, it has the potential to develop into a functioning human being. So what? Nature prevents this from happening on a daily basis. I see no moral problem with using the IUD or the pill to prevent this zygote from becoming implanted in the uterus. Any arguments against this are religious ones, and your religious beliefs are not binding on me or anyone else. Quote The real question, then, is not the humanity of the unborn child from his or her earliest stages of development but our view on the moral worth of a human being. I don’t agree. It is about a balancing of rights between the woman and the fetus. I am comfortable with the fact that we as a society value a woman’s rights higher than those of the fetus. Quote Where, it is obvious that evolutionary materialistic scientism, atheism and fellow travellers have undermined morality in general and the respect due to mother, father and child from the outset of a new life. That is not obvious. It is just your opinion. Quote But then, as reasoning is morally governed through undeniable duties to truth, right reason, prudence (including the avoidance of reckless harm or endangerment), fairness, justice etc, the general amorality of evolutionary materialism — which is self-refuting and thus self-falsifying — will undermine ability to reason soundly, justly and prudently also. Again, your are voicing an opinion, not fact. My opinion is different than yours. And I sleep quite soundly at night as a result of my opinions. Quote The results of the dominance of this ideology and its fellow travellers are visible all around us: chaos and the corrupting taint of blood guilt from the holocaust of our living posterity in the womb. Lower violence rates, lower infant mortality, higher life expectancy, greater acceptance and tolerance of others, ever decreasing abortion rates, improved health care, equal rights for women and minorities, increased emphasis on workplace safety, legalization of same sex marriage, less acceptance of spousal abuse and sexual assaults, improved environmental conditions in western countries, increased access to safe and reliable birth control, Access to safe drinking water and food, better access to accurate information on sex and health, etc. If this is chaos, I am all in favour of it. linky

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,12:00    Quote (stevestory @ June 28 2019,08:35) Quote 119 Brother Brian June 28, 2019 at 9:25 am KF Quote BB, by personalising, you are ducking the obvious fact; one BTW established long since by embryology and never overturned since. When egg and sperm cells fuse to form a zygote, a new human life begins. A bit more than half the time, the child is not even the same sex as his mother. I have no idea why you think it is important that the fetus may be a different sex than the mother. Yes, once a zygote is formed, it has the potential to develop into a functioning human being. So what? Nature prevents this from happening on a daily basis. I see no moral problem with using the IUD or the pill to prevent this zygote from becoming implanted in the uterus. Any arguments against this are religious ones, and your religious beliefs are not binding on me or anyone else. Quote The real question, then, is not the humanity of the unborn child from his or her earliest stages of development but our view on the moral worth of a human being. I don’t agree. It is about a balancing of rights between the woman and the fetus. I am comfortable with the fact that we as a society value a woman’s rights higher than those of the fetus. Quote Where, it is obvious that evolutionary materialistic scientism, atheism and fellow travellers have undermined morality in general and the respect due to mother, father and child from the outset of a new life. That is not obvious. It is just your opinion. Quote But then, as reasoning is morally governed through undeniable duties to truth, right reason, prudence (including the avoidance of reckless harm or endangerment), fairness, justice etc, the general amorality of evolutionary materialism — which is self-refuting and thus self-falsifying — will undermine ability to reason soundly, justly and prudently also. Again, your are voicing an opinion, not fact. My opinion is different than yours. And I sleep quite soundly at night as a result of my opinions. Quote The results of the dominance of this ideology and its fellow travellers are visible all around us: chaos and the corrupting taint of blood guilt from the holocaust of our living posterity in the womb. Lower violence rates, lower infant mortality, higher life expectancy, greater acceptance and tolerance of others, ever decreasing abortion rates, improved health care, equal rights for women and minorities, increased emphasis on workplace safety, legalization of same sex marriage, less acceptance of spousal abuse and sexual assaults, improved environmental conditions in western countries, increased access to safe and reliable birth control, Access to safe drinking water and food, better access to accurate information on sex and health, etc. If this is chaos, I am all in favour of it. linky I wonder if there are any IVF clinics on Montserrat. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,12:03    Quote Montserrat  has  a  Mental  Treatment  Act  (2006)  and  a  draft  mental  health  plan  (2002).  There  is  no  mental  health  policy  nor  is  there  a  well  functioning  national  health  information  system  to  inform  the  formulation  of  policy  options.   Just sayin'.... -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,15:36    Quote (Bob O'H @ June 28 2019,00:47) Quote (k.e.. @ June 27 2019,09:04) Quote (stevestory @ June 27 2019,16:37) I can never remember who the secondary players are at UD because if they're science-based people they have to change names as they get banned. So I haven't been reading Mimus's comments, but maybe I should start:   Quote 21 Mimus June 26, 2019 at 7:27 pm I’m not sure what the point of this is. For what it’s worth. I genuinely think you are ignorant of the literature on isolating mechanisms. I’m not sure why else you could write the post that you did. Certainly most people posting at UD don’t know much evolutionary biology. There is not shame in that, of course. It’s only holding very strong opinions on topics that you are ignorant about that I object to. :p  :p  :p Objection your honor! On what grounds, repetition, hesitation or deviation? :-D -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,17:55    Quote (fnxtr @ June 28 2019,13:00) Quote (stevestory @ June 28 2019,08:35) Quote 119 Brother Brian June 28, 2019 at 9:25 am KF   Quote BB, by personalising, you are ducking the obvious fact; one BTW established long since by embryology and never overturned since. When egg and sperm cells fuse to form a zygote, a new human life begins. A bit more than half the time, the child is not even the same sex as his mother. I have no idea why you think it is important that the fetus may be a different sex than the mother. Yes, once a zygote is formed, it has the potential to develop into a functioning human being. So what? Nature prevents this from happening on a daily basis. I see no moral problem with using the IUD or the pill to prevent this zygote from becoming implanted in the uterus. Any arguments against this are religious ones, and your religious beliefs are not binding on me or anyone else.   Quote The real question, then, is not the humanity of the unborn child from his or her earliest stages of development but our view on the moral worth of a human being. I don’t agree. It is about a balancing of rights between the woman and the fetus. I am comfortable with the fact that we as a society value a woman’s rights higher than those of the fetus.   Quote Where, it is obvious that evolutionary materialistic scientism, atheism and fellow travellers have undermined morality in general and the respect due to mother, father and child from the outset of a new life. That is not obvious. It is just your opinion.   Quote But then, as reasoning is morally governed through undeniable duties to truth, right reason, prudence (including the avoidance of reckless harm or endangerment), fairness, justice etc, the general amorality of evolutionary materialism — which is self-refuting and thus self-falsifying — will undermine ability to reason soundly, justly and prudently also. Again, your are voicing an opinion, not fact. My opinion is different than yours. And I sleep quite soundly at night as a result of my opinions.   Quote The results of the dominance of this ideology and its fellow travellers are visible all around us: chaos and the corrupting taint of blood guilt from the holocaust of our living posterity in the womb. Lower violence rates, lower infant mortality, higher life expectancy, greater acceptance and tolerance of others, ever decreasing abortion rates, improved health care, equal rights for women and minorities, increased emphasis on workplace safety, legalization of same sex marriage, less acceptance of spousal abuse and sexual assaults, improved environmental conditions in western countries, increased access to safe and reliable birth control, Access to safe drinking water and food, better access to accurate information on sex and health, etc. If this is chaos, I am all in favour of it. linky I wonder if there are any IVF clinics on Montserrat. the corrupting taint of blood guilt from the holocaust of our living posterity in the womb. I tend to stop reading when someone uses the word "womb". -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,20:10    Quote (khan @ June 28 2019,18:55) I tend to stop reading when someone uses the word "womb". That'll probly a pretty good rule.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,20:23    Quote 134 Brother Brian June 28, 2019 at 6:59 pm KF.     Quote BB, you are evading the point; showing that you know that you are arguing for the indefensible.         I am quite comfortable defending my position. The fact that you disagree with it is irrelevant. Quote It is high time for us to wake up to where we have been taking our civilisation. KF               Didn’t we already go over this? Let me snip from 119 where I highlighted where we are taking our civilization.     Quote     Lower violence rates, lower infant mortality, higher life expectancy, greater acceptance and tolerance of others, ever decreasing abortion rates, improved health care, equal rights for women and minorities, increased emphasis on workplace safety, legalization of same sex marriage, less acceptance of spousal abuse and sexual assaults, improved environmental conditions in western countries, increased access to safe and reliable birth control, Access to safe drinking water and food, better access to accurate information on sex and health, etc.             The vast majority of people are happy with this trend. As am I. The big mystery is why you are not optimistic about these trends. But, frankly, I view that as your problem. Not mine. linky

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,21:31    The UD approach to birth control. Quote I would not do anything to oppose or support any law that would prevent adults from access to contraceptives. Can someone please interpret this for me?

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,22:01    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 28 2019,21:31) The UD approach to birth control. Quote I would not do anything to oppose or support any law that would prevent adults from access to contraceptives. Can someone please interpret this for me? "I would remain scrupulously neutral as others made laws that determined whether adults could have contraception." Basically utter moral cowardice and refusal to be a part of society. -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 28 2019,22:07    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ June 28 2019,20:31) The UD approach to birth control. Quote I would not do anything to oppose or support any law that would prevent adults from access to contraceptives. Can someone please interpret this for me? On the bright side, that sounds better than supporting said laws.

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,02:19    Hahaha:   Quote 59 Mimus June 29, 2019 at 12:01 am KF, I HEREBY OFFICIALLY DECLINE YOUR INVITATION TO SPENT MY TIME WRITING AN ESSAY FOR THE SORT OF TOTALLY NORMAL AND WELL ADJUSTED PERSON WHO ISSUES ALL CAPS CHALLENGES TO PEOPLE ON THE INTERNET. UD linky ETA: So how does KF respond to this?: Lewontin!!!1! Edited by Ptaylor on June 29 2019,23:18 -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,06:54    Ha a few days before that: Quote 42 Mimus June 25, 2019 at 10:59 pm Honestly PaV, are you OK? You are not making a lot of sense. 43 AaronS1978 June 25, 2019 at 11:32 pm :-/ Are you really honestly asking if he’s OK or are you just plainly mocking his statement 44 Mimus June 25, 2019 at 11:39 pm The first one. These posts are verging on the the kairosfocus/BA77 level, I don’t engage with those two because ti’s pretty clear they have an unhealthy relationship to this site. Hopefully PaV isn’t joining them. hahahaha

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,08:45    Quote 63 DaveS June 29, 2019 at 7:01 am Just think, if the multiverse exists, somewhere there’s a Lewontin who obsessively posts a passage by KF over and over, to similar effect … UD is the new Bizzaro World -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,10:06    Quote 64 Brother Brian June 29, 2019 at 8:13 am DaveS@63, thanks for the Saturday morning chuckle. I almost spit my coffee. 🙂 hehehehe

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,11:30    Quote Dilbert’s creator, Scott Adams, gives lessons in being a troll for science         “A troll should never give reasons for what he ‘understands.’ What matters is the attitude.” Posted on June 29, 2019 AuthorNews Comment(1) Scott Adams. There's a Stable Genius for you

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,13:47    Quote 4 Hazel June 29, 2019 at 11:04 am I can think of several regular posters here who in general support the main premises of this site and are often arrogant and condescending about their sense of superiority about understanding science. Do they count as trolls? Quote 6 Brother Brian June 29, 2019 at 11:51 am Hazel I can think of several regular posters here who in general support the main premises of this site and are often arrogant and condescending about their sense of superiority about understanding science. Do they count as trolls? Arrogant and condescending ID proponents on this site? That is just crazy talk. 🙂 hehehehehe

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,17:29    Quote 14 Hazel June 29, 2019 at 3:21 pm Lewontin, again!!! I am really puzzled why you think one quote from one guy is a definitive statement that everyone who thinks that science is the “surest method of putting is in contact with physical reality” is somehow beholden to. Lewontin is certainly not any “official spokesperson” for science, or any other group. Also, I’ll point out that your continually posted quote is virtually unreadable because of the way you interject your editorial comments. linky

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 29 2019,21:04    Quote 77 Hazel June 29, 2019 at 6:29 pm kf writes, “DS, Hazel and BB, I now extend the formal challenge to you.” Baloney! 🙂 There is a huge body of literature about evolution, and some clear distinctions, I am sure, about the difference between metaphysical and physical statements about what has happened. To expect a few laypersons to summarize all that in 6000 words is silly. Here’s my challenge to you. Write up a summary of all your arguments about design and do something with them to impact a wider audience of qualified persons rather than posting repetitively on some relatively obscure internet forum with three or four diehards who are willing to keep discussing things with you. Will you accept that challenge? linky

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2019,06:02    Quote (stevestory @ June 30 2019,05:04) Quote 77 Hazel June 29, 2019 at 6:29 pm kf writes, “DS, Hazel and BB, I now extend the formal challenge to you.” Baloney! 🙂 There is a huge body of literature about evolution, and some clear distinctions, I am sure, about the difference between metaphysical and physical statements about what has happened. To expect a few laypersons to summarize all that in 6000 words is silly. Here’s my challenge to you. Write up a summary of all your arguments about design and do something with them to impact a wider audience of qualified persons rather than posting repetitively on some relatively obscure internet forum with three or four diehards who are willing to keep discussing things with you. Will you accept that challenge? linky BA77 "CHALLENGE ACCEPTED HOLD MY BEER! 10,000 words coming right up" -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2019,09:40    BS77 should heed the words of an actual theoretical physicist: Quote Katie Mack @AstroKatie · 4m I understand the temptation, truly, but shouting “QUANTUM PHYSICS!” does not actually provide scientific support for whatever supernatural phenomenon one might find appealing at the moment

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2019,10:34    Quote (stevestory @ June 30 2019,17:40) BS77 should heed the words of an actual theoretical physicist:   Quote Katie Mack @AstroKatie · 4m I understand the temptation, truly, but shouting “QUANTUM PHYSICS!” does not actually provide scientific support for whatever supernatural phenomenon one might find appealing at the moment Queue MOAR quantum shouting from Mr ctrl c ctrl v. BA77 is unironically both not a wave nor a partical at the same time, really a bit like a Mega Church usher on a week day morning pushing kids illustrated story books vibrating in a field of self glory . When he quote mines  Einstein who apparently said "God doesn't play dice with the universe" BA77 means God in BA77's own image probably with a spanking fetish. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 30 2019,11:45    I should have been clear the astrokatie post was a post made on Twitter. It just reminded me of that dimwit

k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2019,05:15    Quote (stevestory @ June 30 2019,19:45) I should have been clear the astrokatie post was a post made on Twitter. It just reminded me of that dimwit  :D hahaha I'd love see BA77 sitting in Schrödinger's box. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2019,06:11    Quote (k.e.. @ July 01 2019,05:15) Quote (stevestory @ June 30 2019,19:45) I should have been clear the astrokatie post was a post made on Twitter. It just reminded me of that dimwit  :D hahaha I'd love see BA77 sitting in Schrödinger's box. Err, perhaps I'm overthinking this but I'm not sure that's possible. -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

Bob O'H Posts: 2564 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2019,06:13    Sometimes kf's writing elevates itself to poetry Quote A start-point is to see that our rationality is morally governed through said duties. This means, our life of reason operates on both sides of the IS-OUGHT gap, requiring that it be bridged. That can only be done in the root of reality, on pain of ungrounded ought. "on pain of ungrounded ought" Wow. Buggered if I know what he means, though. grounded oughts this way -------------- It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: July 01 2019,06:30    Quote grounded oughts Is that a breakfast cereal? -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

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