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CeilingCat

Posts: 2324
Joined: Dec. 2007

This is a couple of days late, but we've been blessed with an article from George Montañez, Assistant Professor in the Computer Sciences Department at Harvey Mudd College (which I believe is a real university and not a Star Trek episode) entitled, "The Unified Model of Complex Specified Information" by a Professor who's surely destined (or perhaps designed) to become the Einstein of ID:

 Quote A Unified Model of Complex Specified InformationA mathematical theory of complex specified information is introduced which unifies several prior methods of computing specified complexity. Similar to how the exponential family of probability distributions have dissimilar surface forms yet share a common underlying mathematical identity, we define a model that allows us to cast Dembski’s semiotic specified complexity, Ewert et al.’s algorithmic specified complexity, Hazen et al.’s functional information, and Behe’s irreducible complexity into a common mathematical form.* Adding additional constraints, we introduce canonical specified complexity models, for which one-sided conservation bounds are given, showing that large specified complexity values are unlikely under any given continuous or discrete distribution and that canonical models can be used to form statistical hypothesis tests, by bounding tail probabilities for arbitrary distributions.

Details from Denyse d'Nord, probably the only philosopher in Christiandom capable of fully understanding the Professor, here.

* In other words, he's independantly invented zero.

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

Hazel to Mullings
 Quote Don’t know what you are talking about, and didn’t above when you wrote “study vs structure”, either. But often you write sentences that I don’t understand.

Welcome to the club.

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 4847
Joined: Feb. 2006

Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 16 2018,19:55)
This is a couple of days late, but we've been blessed with an article from George Montañez, Assistant Professor in the Computer Sciences Department at Harvey Mudd College (which I believe is a real university and not a Star Trek episode) entitled, "The Unified Model of Complex Specified Information" by a Professor who's surely destined (or perhaps designed) to become the Einstein of ID:

 Quote A Unified Model of Complex Specified InformationA mathematical theory of complex specified information is introduced which unifies several prior methods of computing specified complexity. Similar to how the exponential family of probability distributions have dissimilar surface forms yet share a common underlying mathematical identity, we define a model that allows us to cast Dembski’s semiotic specified complexity, Ewert et al.’s algorithmic specified complexity, Hazen et al.’s functional information, and Behe’s irreducible complexity into a common mathematical form.* Adding additional constraints, we introduce canonical specified complexity models, for which one-sided conservation bounds are given, showing that large specified complexity values are unlikely under any given continuous or discrete distribution and that canonical models can be used to form statistical hypothesis tests, by bounding tail probabilities for arbitrary distributions.

Details from Denyse d'Nord, probably the only philosopher in Christiandom capable of fully understanding the Professor, here.

* In other words, he's independantly invented zero.

Unified TARD Theory.    Basically what he did was take four little piles of stinking horseshit and make one big pile.  That probably qualifies him for some sort of special short-yellow-bus award from the DI.

On the positive side, it did increase the 2018 total number of ID papers published at Bio-Complexity from 2 to 3.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

CeilingCat

Posts: 2324
Joined: Dec. 2007

Occam's Aftershave:
 Quote Unified TARD Theory.    Basically what he did was take four little piles of stinking horseshit and make one big pile.  That probably qualifies him for some sort of special short-yellow-bus award from the DI.

But he discovered all those theories use numbers!  That unifies them!

Occam's Aftershave

Posts: 4847
Joined: Feb. 2006

Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 16 2018,22:45)
Occam's Aftershave:
 Quote Unified TARD Theory.    Basically what he did was take four little piles of stinking horseshit and make one big pile.  That probably qualifies him for some sort of special short-yellow-bus award from the DI.

But he discovered all those theories use numbers!  That unifies them!

Well, when he discovers the world's largest number then he'll have something to crow about.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"I'm a female retired marine biologist"

Whizz-dumb from Joe "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest female impersonator YEC.

CeilingCat

Posts: 2324
Joined: Dec. 2007

I think he already knows that the world's largest number is Jesus.

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 16 2018,21:29)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 16 2018,19:55)
This is a couple of days late, but we've been blessed with an article from George Montañez, Assistant Professor in the Computer Sciences Department at Harvey Mudd College (which I believe is a real university and not a Star Trek episode) entitled, "The Unified Model of Complex Specified Information" by a Professor who's surely destined (or perhaps designed) to become the Einstein of ID:

 Quote A Unified Model of Complex Specified InformationA mathematical theory of complex specified information is introduced which unifies several prior methods of computing specified complexity. Similar to how the exponential family of probability distributions have dissimilar surface forms yet share a common underlying mathematical identity, we define a model that allows us to cast Dembski’s semiotic specified complexity, Ewert et al.’s algorithmic specified complexity, Hazen et al.’s functional information, and Behe’s irreducible complexity into a common mathematical form.* Adding additional constraints, we introduce canonical specified complexity models, for which one-sided conservation bounds are given, showing that large specified complexity values are unlikely under any given continuous or discrete distribution and that canonical models can be used to form statistical hypothesis tests, by bounding tail probabilities for arbitrary distributions.

Details from Denyse d'Nord, probably the only philosopher in Christiandom capable of fully understanding the Professor, here.

* In other words, he's independantly invented zero.

Unified TARD Theory.  :D  Basically what he did was take four little piles of stinking horseshit and make one big pile.  That probably qualifies him for some sort of special short-yellow-bus award from the DI.

On the positive side, it did increase the 2018 total number of ID papers published at Bio-Complexity from 2 to 3.   :)

It must be a good paper. It got published in a peer reviewed journal.

Jkrebs

Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2004

ba77 writes to Ed George, "since you, like Darwinists in general, steadfastly refuse to ever admit when you are wrong,..."

The sound you hear is irony meters exploding, I think.

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

 Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 17 2018,11:54) ba77 writes to Ed George, "since you, like Darwinists in general, steadfastly refuse to ever admit when you are wrong,..."The sound you hear is irony meters exploding, I think.

And in the same comment:
 Quote And, since you have not even attempted to defend atheistic materialism as the supposedly scientific worldview, (as is taught in most American Universities), I am also more than satisfied that I have made the main point I was trying to make clear,, i.e. that atheistic materialism is a completely insane worldview.

I believe that Ed George has repeatedly said that he is not an atheist or a materialist.

Henry J

Posts: 5537
Joined: Mar. 2005

Does "materialist" have a meaning other than one who pays attention to the relevant evidence?

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass:
 Quote hazel December 17, 2018 at 4:41 pmHi kf. I tried reading your post that you linked to, and I’m sorry to say it’s way too much of a hodge-podge of concepts (including some religious ones) and disparate images and notations for me to get any coherent picture of what it’s trying to say, except perhaps that numbers have to be what they are. I think you’ve lost me on whatever your series of posts is about. At least I tried.

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 17 2018,18:11)
KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass:
 Quote hazel December 17, 2018 at 4:41 pmHi kf. I tried reading your post that you linked to, and I’m sorry to say it’s way too much of a hodge-podge of concepts (including some religious ones) and disparate images and notations for me to get any coherent picture of what it’s trying to say, except perhaps that numbers have to be what they are. I think you’ve lost me on whatever your series of posts is about. At least I tried.

And it gets better.
 Quote hazelDecember 17, 2018 at 6:58 pmkf, listen to this: I am NOT INTERESTED in your posts. I can’t even imagine wading into a discussion with you about them. They don’t make much sense to me, and what sense I do make of them are about approaches I am not interested in.Can’t you just accept that?

Bye bye Hazel. It has been fun.

fnxtr

Posts: 3355
Joined: June 2006

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 17 2018,17:04)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 17 2018,18:11)
KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass:

 Quote hazel December 17, 2018 at 4:41 pmHi kf. I tried reading your post that you linked to, and I’m sorry to say it’s way too much of a hodge-podge of concepts (including some religious ones) and disparate images and notations for me to get any coherent picture of what it’s trying to say, except perhaps that numbers have to be what they are. I think you’ve lost me on whatever your series of posts is about. At least I tried.

And it gets better.

 Quote hazelDecember 17, 2018 at 6:58 pmkf, listen to this: I am NOT INTERESTED in your posts. I can’t even imagine wading into a discussion with you about them. They don’t make much sense to me, and what sense I do make of them are about approaches I am not interested in.Can’t you just accept that?

Bye bye Hazel. It has been fun.

I think he needs to muck about more with fonts and colours and such.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Jkrebs

Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2004

Acarta wrote that"KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass."

You called it. A sampling of kf's responses:

"First, the attempt just above to red flag mistakes mention of the God of Ethical Theism — a philosophical concept — for a religious one. Obviously, with all the invited disdain in a world full of aggressive secularists — it is the crowning piece."

"(Pardon, but I think on fair comment it is already well within my rights to point out to you that you should reconsider dismissive rhetoric which has kept on cropping up.)"

"(Yet again I find it appropriate to speak on fair comment: you inappropriately tried to set up a strawman caricature, push it over and avoid addressing a substantial issue. Please, stop.)"

Jkrebs

Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2004

And I like this comment by Ed George:

 Quote Hazel@150, I know. I have followed the thread and you have agreed with him more often than naught. I guess some people can’t take yes for an answer. 🙂

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 17 2018,21:04)
And I like this comment by Ed George:

 Quote Hazel@150, I know. I have followed the thread and you have agreed with him more often than naught. I guess some people can’t take yes for an answer. 🙂

I’m taking odds on when Batshitcrazy77 threatens Hazel (or Ed) to request the UD administrator to have them removed.

sparc

Posts: 2034
Joined: April 2007

 Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 17 2018,21:02) Acarta wrote that"KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass."You called it. A sampling of kf's responses:"First, the attempt just above to red flag mistakes mention of the God of Ethical Theism — a philosophical concept — for a religious one. Obviously, with all the invited disdain in a world full of aggressive secularists — it is the crowning piece.""(Pardon, but I think on fair comment it is already well within my rights to point out to you that you should reconsider dismissive rhetoric which has kept on cropping up.)""(Yet again I find it appropriate to speak on fair comment: you inappropriately tried to set up a strawman caricature, push it over and avoid addressing a substantial issue. Please, stop.)"Link, with hazel's replies

KF is just pissed that (why still single) Dr.  Montañez didn't refer to the oh so relevant FIASCO research published by Gordon E. Mullings.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

Quote (sparc @ Dec. 18 2018,02:01)
 Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 17 2018,21:02) Acarta wrote that"KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass."You called it. A sampling of kf's responses:"First, the attempt just above to red flag mistakes mention of the God of Ethical Theism — a philosophical concept — for a religious one. Obviously, with all the invited disdain in a world full of aggressive secularists — it is the crowning piece.""(Pardon, but I think on fair comment it is already well within my rights to point out to you that you should reconsider dismissive rhetoric which has kept on cropping up.)""(Yet again I find it appropriate to speak on fair comment: you inappropriately tried to set up a strawman caricature, push it over and avoid addressing a substantial issue. Please, stop.)"Link, with hazel's replies

KF is just pissed that (why still single) Dr.  Montañez didn't refer to the oh so relevant FIASCO research published by Gordon E. Mullings.

KF just won't give it up.
 Quote H & EG: Chuckle, again. It seems the real problem has surfaced. You are engaging in essentially objecting commentary on a series of articles that are engaging logic and first principles of reason (including how this leads to numbers etc as necessary features of any possible world) but have no interest in either the substance or the argument, while having fairly obvious disdain for the presenter and lack of awareness of key ideas involved. No wonder there is little motivation to follow the substantial interest or concern that there may be key issues of truth on the table. That readily explains why objections and dismissive comments so often turn the substance into a strawman caricature and tend to be distractive and dismissive. In addition, you are unfamiliar with the nature of key issues and concepts but are not engaging with what would help you begin to change that unfamiliarity. This then leads to the projection of hostility or confusion or incoherence etc, especially when this little spermologos has the temerity to attempt to explain or correct or point out fallacies. I am left shaking my head and chuckling. Perhaps, we can start afresh on a different footing? KF

Spermologos? Who is he trying to impress?

Patrick

Posts: 666
Joined: July 2011

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 18 2018,10:23)
Quote (sparc @ Dec. 18 2018,02:01)
 Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 17 2018,21:02) Acarta wrote that"KF is going to go all Red herring on Hazel’s ass."You called it. A sampling of kf's responses:"First, the attempt just above to red flag mistakes mention of the God of Ethical Theism — a philosophical concept — for a religious one. Obviously, with all the invited disdain in a world full of aggressive secularists — it is the crowning piece.""(Pardon, but I think on fair comment it is already well within my rights to point out to you that you should reconsider dismissive rhetoric which has kept on cropping up.)""(Yet again I find it appropriate to speak on fair comment: you inappropriately tried to set up a strawman caricature, push it over and avoid addressing a substantial issue. Please, stop.)"Link, with hazel's replies

KF is just pissed that (why still single) Dr.  Montañez didn't refer to the oh so relevant FIASCO research published by Gordon E. Mullings.

KF just won't give it up.
 Quote H & EG: Chuckle, again. It seems the real problem has surfaced. You are engaging in essentially objecting commentary on a series of articles that are engaging logic and first principles of reason (including how this leads to numbers etc as necessary features of any possible world) but have no interest in either the substance or the argument, while having fairly obvious disdain for the presenter and lack of awareness of key ideas involved. No wonder there is little motivation to follow the substantial interest or concern that there may be key issues of truth on the table. That readily explains why objections and dismissive comments so often turn the substance into a strawman caricature and tend to be distractive and dismissive. In addition, you are unfamiliar with the nature of key issues and concepts but are not engaging with what would help you begin to change that unfamiliarity. This then leads to the projection of hostility or confusion or incoherence etc, especially when this little spermologos has the temerity to attempt to explain or correct or point out fallacies. I am left shaking my head and chuckling. Perhaps, we can start afresh on a different footing? KF

Spermologos? Who is he trying to impress?

Out of curiosity, I plugged that last paragraph of Gordon's into a grammar checker.  Essentially the whole thing lit up red with over a dozen phrases in special highlights.

Oddly, it gave it a reading level of grade 14.  Personally, I think an 8-year-old could tell he's full of it.

Acartia_Bogart

Posts: 2696
Joined: Sep. 2014

From WJM
 Quote I think the question now becomes: what can we infer from the fact that mathematics is an inherent aspect of the universe and of our existence?

OOOH! OOOH! I got this. An intelligent agent?

Henry J

Posts: 5537
Joined: Mar. 2005

Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 18 2018,11:41)
From WJM
 Quote I think the question now becomes: what can we infer from the fact that mathematics is an inherent aspect of the universe and of our existence?

OOOH! OOOH! I got this. An intelligent agent?

But that's not an inference, it's a speculation.

Jkrebs

Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2004

wjm deleted the posts of hazel and ed discussing kf, and warned against posts about personalities.

Doesn't seem to be anything about kf chuckling, though. :-)

CeilingCat

Posts: 2324
Joined: Dec. 2007

Uncommon Descent in a nutshell:
 Quote Seversky: This is the same “benevolent” God who is supposed to have wiped out almost all life on Earth because it displeased Him ..."harry": You sound like a little kid whose Dad spanked him for riding his tricycle in the street, carrying on about how cruel his Dad was for spanking him for no good reason whatsoever.

This board is choking on the typical UD mega-address, so look for comment 14 from "harry" in the "Rodney Stark: A social scientist who begged to differ with the 'distinguished bigots' on faith and science" thread.

The "distinguished bigots", by the way, are Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire) and Voltaire.  No mention of the Distinguished Christian bigot, Martin Luthor and his book, On the Jews and Their Lies.

Happy Solstice

Texas Teach

Posts: 2011
Joined: April 2007

Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 18 2018,16:18)
Uncommon Descent in a nutshell:
 Quote Seversky: This is the same “benevolent” God who is supposed to have wiped out almost all life on Earth because it displeased Him ..."harry": You sound like a little kid whose Dad spanked him for riding his tricycle in the street, carrying on about how cruel his Dad was for spanking him for no good reason whatsoever.

This board is choking on the typical UD mega-address, so look for comment 14 from "harry" in the "Rodney Stark: A social scientist who begged to differ with the 'distinguished bigots' on faith and science" thread.

The "distinguished bigots", by the way, are Edward Gibbon (Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire) and Voltaire.  No mention of the Distinguished Christian bigot, Martin Luthor and his book, On the Jews and Their Lies.

Happy Solstice

If my dad had murdered me, every other person on Earth but one family, and 99.9999999% of every other species because I rode my tricycle in the street, I think I’d be justified in complaining.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

Lethean

Posts: 290
Joined: Jan. 2014

Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 13 2018,20:03)

 Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 13 2018,19:39) Alexa has UD as the 538,000th most popular website in America, with page views going down and time on site going down. plus he's paying Denise out of his own pocket to keep posting four posts a day, to make it look like the site is still busy. I'm sure he'd love some more ad revenue, but I don't know how he's going to get it. Maybe he could start selling some merch.ETA how much dinero do you think there is in shipping a cap to a shack in Montserrat?

Maybe UD brand fishing reels?

Oil of ad hominem of the month club?

A streaming service for farty videos?

 Quote In the arms of an angel ...

Every single hour on UD, science is violently science'd.

 Quote ... fly away from here ...                ... from this dark cold hotel room ...

3,000 word rants were posted last year.

 Quote ... and the endlessness that you feel                You were pulled from wreckage ...

For dozens of us! lurkers, the tard came too late.

 Quote ... of your silent reverie ...                ... you're in the arms of the angel ...                                ... may you find some comfort here

Hi. I'm Lethean. Will you be an angel for a helpless cause?

Every day the arguments of cdesign proponentsists are straw-manned, oil soaked, and set ablaze.

And they are crying out for more.

Please click the donate button on UD and join their Quixotic adventure with a monetary gift right now.

For just a few non-ambulance-chased dollars a month, only cents a day, you'll help the tard flow.

 Quote You're in the arms of the angel ...                ... may you fiiiiiIIIIiiiiiiIIIiiiinnnnd ...                                    ... some comfort here.

Click and donate online in the next 30 minutes and you'll receive this triple-threat set of exploded diagrams right now.

 Quote ...... trailing piano noises .....

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."

~Dave Hawkins~

Jkrebs

Posts: 545
Joined: Sep. 2004

For the record, tough guy wjm deleted this post:

replacing it with this:

Lethean

Posts: 290
Joined: Jan. 2014

Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 14 2018,04:12)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 13 2018,20:08)

Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 13 2018,20:03)

 Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 13 2018,19:39) Alexa has UD as the 538,000th most popular website in America, with page views going down and time on site going down. plus he's paying Denise out of his own pocket to keep posting four posts a day, to make it look like the site is still busy. I'm sure he'd love some more ad revenue, but I don't know how he's going to get it. Maybe he could start selling some merch.ETA how much dinero do you think there is in shipping a cap to a shack in Montserrat?

Maybe UD brand fishing reels?

Oil of ad hominem of the month club?

A streaming service for farty videos?

Speaking of farty videos, anyone know what Dr.Dr.Dr. is up to these days?  Is the barbeque shack still his primary (only) source of income?

Dr^n is now an "entrepreneur who builds educational software and websites".

Coincidentally, last night I read this interesting comment by Gregory over at TSZ where he says, more or less in passing,

 Quote (Preface to Dembski’s ID: THE Bridge between Science and Theology, 1999, which also overshot its reach, but Dembski still won’t admit that openly, now back employed by the DI after officially ‘retiring’ from ID not that long ago).

I haven't bothered to try and verify that in any way, nor do I have a convenient way to ask him how he knows that.

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."

~Dave Hawkins~

Lethean

Posts: 290
Joined: Jan. 2014

Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 18 2018,17:27)
For the record, tough guy wjm deleted this post:

replacing it with this:

Worst kept secret?

The J in WJM stands for Jagoff.

--------------
"So I'm a pretty unusual guy and it's not stupidity that has gotten me where I am. It's brilliance."

"My brain is one of the very few independent thinking brains that you've ever met. And that's a thing of wonder to you and since you don't understand it you criticize it."

~Dave Hawkins~

Cubist

Posts: 540
Joined: Oct. 2007

Quote (Lethean @ Dec. 18 2018,17:53)

 Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 14 2018,04:12) Dr^n is now an "entrepreneur who builds educational software and websites".

Coincidentally, last night I read this interesting comment by Gregory over at TSZ where he says, more or less in passing,

 Quote (Preface to Dembski’s ID: THE Bridge between Science and Theology, 1999, which also overshot its reach, but Dembski still won’t admit that openly, now back employed by the DI after officially ‘retiring’ from ID not that long ago).

I haven't bothered to try and verify that in any way, nor do I have a convenient way to ask him how he knows that.

Just checked the Dishonesty Institute's website, and Dembski is listed as a member of its Board of Directors. No idea how long he's been holding that prestigious position.

fnxtr

Posts: 3355
Joined: June 2006

Quote (Cubist @ Dec. 18 2018,16:23)
Quote (Lethean @ Dec. 18 2018,17:53)

 Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 14 2018,04:12) Dr^n is now an "entrepreneur who builds educational software and websites".

Coincidentally, last night I read this interesting comment by Gregory over at TSZ where he says, more or less in passing,

 Quote (Preface to Dembski’s ID: THE Bridge between Science and Theology, 1999, which also overshot its reach, but Dembski still won’t admit that openly, now back employed by the DI after officially ‘retiring’ from ID not that long ago).

I haven't bothered to try and verify that in any way, nor do I have a convenient way to ask him how he knows that.

Just checked the Dishonesty Institute's website, and Dembski is listed as a member of its Board of Directors. No idea how long he's been holding that prestigious position.

He's just in it for the free lunch.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

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