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afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,02:32   

AF Dave Explains Cain's Wife

Many people ask the question, "If the the Book of Genesis is true, who did Cain marry?"

It's a very good question and there is a very good, scientific answer.  Before I do that, let me say thanks for stopping by and if you want to hear more, check for other "AFDave" articles on this blog or on my own blog (airdave.blogspot.com).  I spend more time here, though.

The short answer is that with no other information than what the Bible gives, we have to assume CAIN MARRIED ONE OF HIS SISTERS.

This raises some obvious questions like "Huh??" and "Yuk!" and "What about biological deformities?" and the like ...

My answer comes from (surprise!;) ... www.answersingenesis.com ... you can find the whole article here http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/tools/cains_wife.asp, but I will extract some of it for you ...

Today, brothers and sisters (and half-brothers and half-sisters, etc.) are not permitted by law to marry because their children have an unacceptably high risk of being deformed. The more closely the parents are related, the more likely it is that any offspring will be deformed.

There is a very sound genetic reason for such laws that is easy to understand. Every person has two sets of genes that specify how a person is put together and functions. Each person inherits one gene of each pair from each parent. Unfortunately, genes today contain many mistakes, and these mistakes show up in a variety of ways. For instance, some people let their hair grow over their ears to hide the fact that one ear is lower than the other—or perhaps someone’s nose is not quite in the middle of his or her face, or someone’s jaw is a little out of shape—and so on. Let’s face it, the main reason we call each other normal is because of our common agreement to do so!

The more distantly related parents are, the more likely it is that they will have different mistakes in their genes. Children, inheriting one set of genes from each parent, are likely to end up with pairs of genes containing a maximum of one bad gene in each pair. The good gene tends to override the bad so that a deformity (a serious one, anyway) does not occur. Instead of having totally deformed ears, for instance, a person may only have crooked ones! (Overall, though, the human race is slowly degenerating as mistakes accumulate, generation after generation.)

However, the more closely related two people are, the more likely it is that they will have similar mistakes in their genes, since these have been inherited from the same parents. Therefore, a brother and a sister are more likely to have similar mistakes in their genes. A child of a union between such siblings could inherit the same bad gene on the same gene pair from both, resulting in two bad copies of the gene and serious defects.

However, Adam and Eve did not have accumulated genetic mistakes. When the first two people were created, they were physically perfect. Everything God made was ‘very good’ (Genesis 1:31), so their genes were perfect—no mistakes! But, when sin entered the world (because of Adam—Genesis 3:6ff, Romans 5:12), God cursed the world so that the perfect creation then began to degenerate, that is, suffer death and decay (Romans 8:22). Over thousands of years, this degeneration has produced all sorts of genetic mistakes in living things.

Cain was in the first generation of children ever born. He (as well as his brothers and sisters) would have received virtually no imperfect genes from Adam or Eve, since the effects of sin and the Curse would have been minimal to start with (it takes time for these copying errors to accumulate). In that situation, brother and sister could have married with God’s approval, without any potential to produce deformed offspring.

By the time of Moses (a few thousand years later), degenerative mistakes would have built up in the human race to such an extent that it was necessary for God to forbid brother-sister (and close relative) marriage (Leviticus 18–20).12 (Also, there were plenty of people on the Earth by now, and there was no reason for close relations to marry.)

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
hehe



Posts: 59
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,03:36   

Since it would be easy for "god" to create a partner for Cain, we should assume that there's nothing morally wrong with banging one's sister (or mother, or daughter) as long as deformed children are not born  :D

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,04:24   

Once again, dave: your answer (although it's not yours, you're just parroting every known attempt to explain this) is, like I said, quite adequate- for religion.
It is not, however, scientific.
In a scientific hypothesis, you cannot explain the flaws in your assumptions by making even wilder (and unsupportable) assumptions: that makes the whole hypothesis a joke. So, you may argue about a supposed "genetic perfection" that would make incest possible then (although, if I may add, Cain was born after your entity put a "curse" upon the world, furious that its children- what? Ate an apple it said not to? Sheesh) But there is simply no way to scientifically support that.
For the same reasons, I could explain how your selective reading of your inerrant book failed to see that Cain knew his wife after he fled to Nod, and also that he built a city for just him, his wife, and his son.
Then, of course, you'd check your sites and come back with the pre-cut answers: that Cain was already married, and "knew" here means "had sex" (although his wife was never mentioned before) -and also that the Hebrew word translated here as "city" actually means "small town" that could hold as little as 100 people (which makes you wonder why these people, obviously brothers of Cain, were exiled with him- and, BTW, why don't they tell us what the ancient Hebrew word translated as "knew" in the case of Cain's wife actually meant, too?)
You see, it's all pointless. Assumptions, assumptions, and then more assumptions to explain them- and, the more you make, the more impossible it is to relate them with observations of the real world.
As a logical excercise that helps you defend your religious dogma, all this works fine- and, in fact, that's how it was meant to be used.
As a scientific hypothesis, it totally sucks. Sorry.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,04:39   

Quote (hehe @ April 29 2006,08:36)
Since it would be easy for "god" to create a partner for Cain, we should assume that there's nothing morally wrong with banging one's sister (or mother, or daughter) as long as deformed children are not born  :D

Yes, it seems that, in the universal and eternal moral codes this entity has set from the dawn of time, incest is just fine, as long as no offspring is produced nowadays.

Now it's my mind that whirls with implications...

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,06:18   

Well Faid, as I said on another thread, there are many people coming over to the AIG position, many of them who earned PH.D's at secular universities and were also skeptics like yourself.  Maybe you should talk with them.  And if this does not convince you, maybe you should set up your own "Ministry" to convince people of you and your fellow skeptics beliefs.  Maybe you could get invitations to churches if you were convincing enough.  Rent a sports stadium and have big conferences and promote your view in a big way!  This is America ... go for it!

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,07:12   

Why so jumpy alluva sudden? What happened to your thick skin?

Quote
Well Faid, as I said on another thread, there are many people coming over to the AIG position, many of them who earned PH.D's at secular universities and were also skeptics like yourself.  Maybe you should talk with them.

Maybe I should... But now I'm talking with you.
Quote
And if this does not convince you

A stand-alone Argumentum ad Verecundiam (especially a highly disputable one) never convinces me.
Quote
maybe you should set up your own "Ministry" to convince people of you and your fellow skeptics beliefs.

Indoctrination is not my thing, thanks.
Quote
Maybe you could get invitations to churches if you were convincing enough.  Rent a sports stadium and have big conferences and promote your view in a big way!  This is America ... go for it!


...

...Um, you are aware that you're babbling now, right? Relax, man. Like I said, I have no problem with you using all these arguments to defend your dogma in theological discussions. That's why they were made. Just don't try to pass it off as science. That's all I'm saying.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,09:46   

Quote
When the first two people were created, they were physically perfect.

I could swear that I read somewhere that Adam was missing a rib ...

  
stephenWells



Posts: 127
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,10:11   

Since the book of Genesis is not true, the question is entirely moot.

AFDave, haven't you noticed, that Genesis 2 4:25 is a different creation story, which contradicts the one in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 1:3? In Genesis 1, God creates all the animals ( verses 24-25 ) and then creates man and woman (vv 26-27). In Genesis 2, God creates a man (v 7), then creates all the animals afterwards (18-20) and finally creates a woman from the man's rib (21-22).

So Dave, did God create the animals before or after man? Have fun trying to explain that one :)

Keywords: P-document, J-document.

BTW Dave, have you read the Epic of Gilgamesh? Or the Eddas? There are other fun myths out there as well, you don't have to stick to just one.

  
hehe



Posts: 59
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,11:16   

Quote
Yes, it seems that, in the universal and eternal moral codes this entity has set from the dawn of time, incest is just fine, as long as no offspring is produced nowadays.


Yes, of course. Moreover, since this "god" was supposed to forbid incest later, it either proves that she is a moral relativist, or the Bible is not inerrant  :D

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,11:46   

I've met God!  And She's black!!

:D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,11:48   

Yes, I've read many of the myths and they help confirm my theory that the Christian Bible is inerrant ... we'll cover that under Point 9 of my "Creator God Hypothesis".  I have also studied the different sections of Genesis and, as you can probably guess, have a different theory than you which I believe has excellent support.

You make a good point, however, that I should add some more information into my hypothesis between Points 2 & 3 which specifically addresses the Cain's wife issue.  I did mention that my hypothesis is a draft and I am open to additions and changes as they become necessary.

Faid, don't be offended by my joke about starting your own "ministry" ... by the way, I do have your detailed questions from yesterday (?) saved and will answer them as I have time.

I appreciate all the comments ... see you Monday!

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Jay Ray



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,12:04   

Biblical literalism is transparently illogical and ultimately boring as actual debate.  Why has AFDave come here to parrot the AiG script to us?  Is it a ministry of some sort?  

As someone arguing as a supernaturalist, Avocationist was much more interesting.  Too bad she fled AtBC. :)

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,14:01   

Quote
Faid, don't be offended by my joke about starting your own "ministry" ... by the way, I do have your detailed questions from yesterday (?) saved and will answer them as I have time.


...Offended? *sigh* No, dave, I'm not offended. I'm sure you agree with me there's no reason to.

You can answer my questions in your own time... Proving the impossibility of Cain's wife is not among my priorities. :)
After all that we've told you, however, it's important to understand that we'll be discussing theological issues, not scientific ones.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
stephenWells



Posts: 127
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,18:41   

Quote (afdave @ April 29 2006,16:48)
I have also studied the different sections of Genesis and, as you can probably guess, have a different theory than you which I believe has excellent support.

Does your "different theory" say that animals were created after man, as it says in genesis 2, or before man, as it says in Genesis 1? One or the other.

  
hehe



Posts: 59
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 29 2006,21:32   

Note how Dave ran away from my points   ;)

  
secondclass



Posts: 9
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,09:06   

Quote (afdave @ April 29 2006,11:18)
Well Faid, as I said on another thread, there are many people coming over to the AIG position, many of them who earned PH.D's at secular universities and were also skeptics like yourself.  Maybe you should talk with them.

Can you point me to that thread?  Did you name names?

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,10:05   

Quote (afdave @ April 29 2006,16:48)
they help confirm my theory that the Christian Bible is inerrant

http://www.bidstrup.com/bible2.htm

A few more inerrancies to explain away.....

I particularly like the Easter ones..

When the sun was coming up (Matt. 28:1) while it was still dark (John 20:1), Mary Magdalene (John 20:1) or Mary Magdalene and the other Mary (Matt 28:1) or "the women" [note the plural] (Luke 24:1) went to the tomb. There was an earthquake, and an angel came down and rolled the stone away (Matt. 28:2) from the entrance of the tomb and sat on it, even though it had apparently already been rolled away when Mary Magdalene had got there (John 20:1, Mark 16:4, Luke 24:2). The reason for the visit was to anoint the body with spices (Mark 16:1, Luke 24:1) or just to look at the tomb (Matt. 28:1), take your pick.

When she or they, take your pick, arrived, she/they witnessed the earthquake and angel coming down from heaven (Matt. 28:1), or they walked into the tomb to discover a young man dressed in white sitting on the right (Mark 16:5) or two men in bright shining clothes (Luke 24:4), take your pick.

At this point, John says that Mary had run back to fetch Peter and another disciple. The other gospel writers make no mention of Mary taking leave of the tomb to go back and get any of the men at this point.

If/when she/they returned, the angel (Mark 15:6) or the angels (Luke 24:5) is/are quoted by the gospel writers as having said one of three things. Either "He is not here, he is raised, just as he said." (Matt. 28:6) or "He is not here, he has been raised." (Mark 15:6, Luke 24:6) or "Woman, why are you crying?" (John 20:13).

So the woman or women ran from the tomb to tell the disciples (Matt. 28:8) or they left, too terrified to say anything to anyone (Mark 16:8), take your pick.

Mary Magdalene saw Jesus appear to her and decided he'd been resurrected (John 20:14-18). Or the women, having left the tomb and thinking things over, were sure that Jesus' body had been stolen, so they tried to bribe the soldiers guarding the tomb to tell them where the body had been taken (Matt. 28:11-15).


--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
UnMark



Posts: 97
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,11:14   

Biblical contradictions by category

It even quotes the verses instead of just listing them.  I don't think Dave will care - he's an adept at Doublethink.

Queue: Will the real Carol Clouser please stand up? :D

  
Carol Clouser



Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,17:53   

Here I am Unmark.

Afdave's "explanation" of the Cain's wife issue is obviously incorrect, as anyone who knows the real (Hebrew) Bible will readily confirm. The Bible does not make the prohibition against incest contingent on deformed offspring. Incest is forbidden, period. And it makes no sense to postulate that God would organize his world in a manner that compelled violations of his own commandments.

The correct explanation is that the Hebrew Bible neither states nor implies that Adam was the first human being. During the sixth "era" (not day!;) the Bible tells us that God provided for the appearance of "humans" (Ha-adam, in Hebrew) not "Adams". When Adam appears, a sizeable population of human beings already existed. This also explains why Cain went about building a "city". There were enough folks around, just in his location, to populate a city!

Unmark, I don't comment on so called "new" testament issues, since it concerns me not in the least. I will leave that to Afdave.

One other important point here. Pay attention, Afdave. The so called "old" testament (OT) was created by Jews, for Jews, and is about Jews. We are flattered that, after many centuries of being the only people to cherish it, much of the world has fallen deeply in love with the document. But the text is OURS. We claim OWNERSHIP and EXPERTISE. We transmitted the oral tradition to go with it from generation to generation, until it was recorded (in the Talmud and Midrash). What Christians have done is hijack the text, mistranslate it, distort it, misunderstand it, add to it, and finally subtract from it. In the process they have made the OT look silly with a multitude of contradictions, none of which appear in the original. Unbelievable, but this is the historical truth, admitted to even by (knowledgeable) Christians.

So if you want real, honest and correct answers to issues pertaining to the OT, you need to consult the true experts and rightful owners. You know who they are. It is not Afdave and his ilk.

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,18:08   

afdave, I should point out that Carol is spelling-challenged, scientifically illiterate, prone to lying, deception and malice, and generally clueless about the Tanakh.

Other than that she's probably a fine person, but she's certainly an embarrassing faux scholar.

Ignore her.  We usually do.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 30 2006,23:51   

No no, answer her.  I want to see afdave and carol have an argument.  It would be interesting...

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,00:54   

Quote
It is not Afdave and his ilk.
My goodness ... I've been called ILK again ... that's twice now!  Carol, I hope we can become friends even if we never end up agreeing.  I'm glad to find out that you are Jewish because I don't have many Jewish acquaintances here in Kansas City.  I love hearing what Jewish people have to say though because I hold the Jewish nation and people in very high esteem.  
Quote
During the sixth "era" (not day! the Bible tells us that God provided for the appearance of "humans" (Ha-adam, in Hebrew) not "Adams". When Adam appears, a sizeable population of human beings already existed. This also explains why Cain went about building a "city". There were enough folks around, just in his location, to populate a city!
Can you tell me what your basis would be for not reading the Hebrew word 'yom' as a literal day?  In all my study of the Hebrew scriptures, it appears to me that the word 'yom' is almost always one, 24 hour day.  My opinion is that some people think it is NOT a 24 hour day in Genesis only to accomodate what they believe to be incontrovertible evidence of the supposed long ages of evolutionary geology.

Faid-- You raise some very good points.  To answer them broadly, I have found that the difficulties clear up if I take away my 20th century presuppositions and frame of reference.  If we acknowledge the possibility that life was VERY different in the beginning, things become a lot clearer.  First, the Bible is very clear that the ante-diluvian patriarchs lived very long lives.  There are several independent lines of evidence supporting this, which I will get into in proper sequence.  Josephus tells us that the old Jewish tradition is that Adam had  33 sons and 23 daughters.  Josephus also tells us that one of Cain's descendants had 77 children by two wives.  (Antiq., Book 1, Ch. 2) Wow, those were tough women!  My hypothesis (short version) on this topic is that Adam and Eve and their near descendants were vigorous, model specimens of humanity--Ken and Barbie, if you will.  They probably had ZERO genetic defects and quite possibly were taller and stronger than modern humans. (notice that this is opposite of modern evolutionary speculation, but consistent with the evidence we see of accumulating deleterious mutations over time) If Cain was like his father, he had many children and they in turn had many more children.  My hypothesis asserts rapid population growth in the ante-diluvian world.  The Bible does not state that Enoch was Cain's firstborn. If he was not, there could have been MANY children and grandchildren BEFORE Cain and his clan moved to Nod.  Even if Enoch was his firstborn, we do no violence to the text by proposing that there could have been a 50-100 year time span between having Enoch and building the city.  Remember, 100 years was only a little over 10% of their entire lifespans.  As for why the writer use the word 'yada' (translated 'knew') instead of 'had sex with,' I could ask this question ... when you are at dinner parties, do you say to your friends, "Well, when my wife and I first met, we had dinner, went to a movie, then went to my house and had sex."  Probably, you don't talk about your private affairs, but if you do, you probably use some polite euphemism such as "we went to my house and 'made love.'  Of course if you are like 'hehe' you might have used the term 'banged.' I know this does not answer everything yet, but if you stick with me, I think you are going to be amazed at how clear everything becomes.

Rilke's GD-- Thanks!  And thanks also for your comments on my other thread.  I have taken yours and other helpful comments I received and clarified the structure of my "Creator God Hypothesis."  I want as many constructive comments on the structure and rules of my little debate as possible before moving ahead with additional points.

Midnight Voice and UnMark-- those are very easy examples to explain, but they are not my focus right now.  If you want a quick answer, Google search "Christian Research Institute" with the 'Bible Answer Man', Hank Hannegraf.

As for the 2 accounts of creation ... which came first?  Animals or Man.  No time now ... stay tuned!

hehe -- 'banging' ones sister apparently was fine with God in the beginning if you were married to her.  Again, there was no prohibition against this that I know of until the time of Moses by which time accumulated mutations would have posed a problem to close marriages with close kin.
Quote
I've met God!  And She's black!!

And her name is Condi ...!  Condi for president in '08!

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Carol Clouser



Posts: 29
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,02:42   

Afdave,

We are friends and "ilk" is not a word that connotes otherwise.

As far as "yom" is concerned, you really need to read up on that and many other Hebrew-related issues. I think I have already recommended one great book to you (Landa's IN THE BEGINNING OF) and there are others. I will not get into the whole analysis here. Suffice it to say that "yom" is used in three different ways in the Hebrew Bible, quite often in the sense of "a period of time characterized by some development or feature". This cannot be decided by vote, but by context. As an example of "yom" used as "era" even in the context of numerals consider Hosea 6:2 (I think, doing this from memory right now).

Hope this helps.

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,02:43   

Quote (afdave @ May 01 2006,05:54)
Faid-- You raise some very good points.  To answer them broadly, I have found that the difficulties clear up if I take away my 20th century presuppositions and frame of reference.  If we acknowledge the possibility that life was VERY different in the beginning, things become a lot clearer.  First, the Bible is very clear that the ante-diluvian patriarchs lived very long lives.  There are several independent lines of evidence supporting this, which I will get into in proper sequence.  Josephus tells us that the old Jewish tradition is that Adam had  33 sons and 23 daughters.  Josephus also tells us that one of Cain's descendants had 77 children by two wives.  (Antiq., Book 1, Ch. 2) Wow, those were tough women!  My hypothesis (short version) on this topic is that Adam and Eve and their near descendants were vigorous, model specimens of humanity--Ken and Barbie, if you will.  They probably had ZERO genetic defects and quite possibly were taller and stronger than modern humans. (notice that this is opposite of modern evolutionary speculation, but consistent with the evidence we see of accumulating deleterious mutations over time) If Cain was like his father, he had many children and they in turn had many more children.  My hypothesis asserts rapid population growth in the ante-diluvian world.  The Bible does not state that Enoch was Cain's firstborn. If he was not, there could have been MANY children and grandchildren BEFORE Cain and his clan moved to Nod.  Even if Enoch was his firstborn, we do no violence to the text by proposing that there could have been a 50-100 year time span between having Enoch and building the city.  Remember, 100 years was only a little over 10% of their entire lifespans.  As for why the writer use the word 'yada' (translated 'knew';) instead of 'had sex with,' I could ask this question ... when you are at dinner parties, do you say to your friends, "Well, when my wife and I first met, we had dinner, went to a movie, then went to my house and had sex."  Probably, you don't talk about your private affairs, but if you do, you probably use some polite euphemism such as "we went to my house and 'made love.'  Of course if you are like 'hehe' you might have used the term 'banged.' I know this does not answer everything yet, but if you stick with me, I think you are going to be amazed at how clear everything becomes.

It's only clear if you want to believe it is clear, dave. I have bolded every aspect of your explanation that is an unsupportable assumption (often to explain other assumptions), and also underlined the parts that seem unfounded compared to modern scientific knowledge -or even compared to the actual text. There's not much left, is it?

But like I said: That does not necessarily make them logically wrong. They can work as theological arguments, that help you defend a position of inerrancy of the bible. They CANNOT be used as scientific arguments to establish an "inerrant bible" hypothesis. I hope we agree on this.

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome.  And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
hehe



Posts: 59
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,03:41   

Quote
hehe -- 'banging' ones sister apparently was fine with God in the beginning if you were married to her.  Again, there was no prohibition against this that I know of until the time of Moses by which time accumulated mutations would have posed a problem to close marriages with close kin.


Thank you for accepting that "god" is a moral relativist. Why shouldn't we be? ;-)

  
afdave



Posts: 1621
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,03:53   

hehe-- I do appreciate your light view of life ... I might disagree with you about God being a relativist, but gotta love your wit! Cheers!

Faid--  It's only unsupported HERE in this post.  I can't take the time or space right now to support it all.  But as I said, if you stick with me, I think you will see that alot of it IS supported very well.

--------------
A DILEMMA FOR THE COMMITTED NATURALIST
A Hi-tech alien spaceship lands on earth ... DESIGNED.
A Hi-tech alien rotary motor found in a cell ... NOT DESIGNED.
http://afdave.wordpress.com/....ess.com

  
Renier



Posts: 276
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,04:14   

afdave, Carol claims you are totally wrong in your interpretation. Why don't you and Carol battle it out a bit, so that the rest of us unholy heathens can have a chuc... eh.. learning experience?

So, who is right, you, or Carol? You cannot both be right, and both claim to be speaking for God. Who must we believe then?

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,04:39   

Quote (guthrie @ May 01 2006,04:51)
No no, answer her.  I want to see afdave and carol have an argument.  It would be interesting...

Godzilla vs. Mothra?

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,04:42   

And afDave goes for the jugular:
Quote
Can you tell me what your basis would be for not reading the Hebrew word 'yom' as a literal day?  In all my study of the Hebrew scriptures, it appears to me that the word 'yom' is almost always one, 24 hour day.  My opinion is that some people think it is NOT a 24 hour day in Genesis only to accomodate what they believe to be incontrovertible evidence of the supposed long ages of evolutionary geology.
I'm impressed: he's already managed to nail Carol.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 01 2006,06:03   

Incest is all the rage in the bible.  Nothing new here.

Chris

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
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