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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Uncommonly Dense Thread 5

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k.e.. Posts: 5432 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2018,06:34    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 06 2018,04:53) ET just got spanked by another IDist. Quote ET to Ed George:  No one cares what those scientists take seriously as they definitely cannot offer a better explanation. Quote Ed responds: That approach shows the same level of maturity as the kid who doesn’t get his way in the playground so he takes his ball and goes home. Is that really what you are recommending? That should be a nice change from having to get down on his knees to fluff KF. -------------- "I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit "ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus "I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 06 2018,13:48    Quote (Lethean @ Dec. 05 2018,16:58) Quote (stevestory @ Nov. 29 2018,15:42)     Quote 6 ScuzzaManNovember 29, 2018 at 7:05 am Dark matter is a desperate attempt to rescue a failing theory. And, in my estimation, that is all it is. Possibly (time will tell) it is also a failure.     Quote 7 daveSNovember 29, 2018 at 7:19 am SuzzaMan, Do you have any suggestions which might yield a better theory?     Quote 8 ScuzzaManNovember 29, 2018 at 7:26 am daveS: The evidence presented by the electric universe theorists is quite compelling in its claims that gravity is not the be-all and end-all of cosmic structure. Whether their theory is any better at explaining other things I could not say, but my view is they’ve done more than enough to demonstrate that electromagnetism cannot be discounted in the matter of galactic formation and behaviour. Thus, the inventing of unobservables in order to maintain current orthodoxy does not appear at all necessary nor desirable.     Quote 9 daveSNovember 29, 2018 at 8:19 am Thanks for that, ScuzzaMan. linky Color me shocked that with all the hardcore science'ing going on over at UD they haven't discovered this themselves rather than those clearly fraudulent dogmatic Darwinian atheistic materialists. Bringing balance to the universe: New theory could explain missing 95 percent of the cosmos When Phillip Cunningham is your QM expert you know you took a wrong turn in Albuquerque.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,08:57    Another Mullings data-dump, complete with copious flow-charts, a big red ball, a double helix graphic, his oft-used rna transcription graphic, Crick's letter, more flow charts and a table with the header Alternatives for "Candidate Beings." If that doesn't sell you on ID, I don't know what will. Mullings Mash-up

Jkrebs Posts: 590 Joined: Sep. 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,16:45    I like Deputy Dogs comments: Quote Wow. The Graphical Gish Gallop. I am impressed. [and] In the chart of Possible Modes of Being or Not Being, it is missing a category for Fictional Beings. Those would be beings that exist only as concepts in a story or someone’s thoughts. Why are those left out? Those ought to get a rise out of kf.

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,17:21    Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 07 2018,16:45) I like Deputy Dogs comments: Quote Wow. The Graphical Gish Gallop. I am impressed. [and] In the chart of Possible Modes of Being or Not Being, it is missing a category for Fictional Beings. Those would be beings that exist only as concepts in a story or someone’s thoughts. Why are those left out? Those ought to get a rise out of kf. Nuclear tripwire!!!11!!1!1!!one!! -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,17:39    EricMH: Quote @DD, or one could interpret this as KF doing his best to communicate a difficult subject through both word and image. The sad thing is that he's probably right.  This is KF doing his best. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,18:37    Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 07 2018,16:45) I like Deputy Dogs comments: Quote Wow. The Graphical Gish Gallop. I am impressed. [and] In the chart of Possible Modes of Being or Not Being, it is missing a category for Fictional Beings. Those would be beings that exist only as concepts in a story or someone’s thoughts. Why are those left out? Those ought to get a rise out of kf. Quote Barry ArringtonDecember 7, 2018 at 6:34 pm UD Editors: Deputy Dog, final warning.

Ptaylor Posts: 1180 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,19:06    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 08 2018,11:37)   Quote Barry ArringtonDecember 7, 2018 at 6:34 pm UD Editors: Deputy Dog, final warning. Now:   Quote 21 Barry Arrington     December 7, 2018 at 6:38 pm Deputy Dog has been shown the exit. -------------- We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.” -PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,20:16    Quote (Ptaylor @ Dec. 07 2018,19:06) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 08 2018,11:37)   Quote Barry ArringtonDecember 7, 2018 at 6:34 pm UD Editors: Deputy Dog, final warning. Now:   Quote 21 Barry Arrington     December 7, 2018 at 6:38 pm Deputy Dog has been shown the exit. So, commenting on a dead person’s amazing ability to overwhelm people with incomprehensible prose (Gish Gallop) is grounds for UD bannination. But calling Darwin a racist and accusing him of being responsible for the holocaust is acceptable. And they accuse us of being moral relativists.

Jkrebs Posts: 590 Joined: Sep. 2004 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,21:50    This was posted: Quote Gish gallop From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The Gish gallop is a technique used during debating that focuses on overwhelming an opponent with as many arguments as possible, without regard for accuracy or strength of the arguments. The term was coined by Eugenie C. Scott and named after the creationist Duane T. Gish, who used the technique frequently against proponents of evolution.[1][2] Technique and counter measures During a Gish gallop, a debater confronts an opponent with a rapid series of many specious arguments, half-truths, and misrepresentations in a short space of time, which makes it impossible for the opponent to refute all of them within the format of a formal debate.[3][4] In practice, each point raised by the “Gish galloper” takes considerably more time to refute or fact-check than it did to state in the first place.[5] The technique wastes an opponent’s time and may cast doubt on the opponent’s debating ability for an audience unfamiliar with the technique, especially if no independent fact-checking is involved[6] or if the audience has limited knowledge of the topics. Generally, it is more difficult to use the Gish gallop in a structured debate than in a free-form one.[7] If a debater is familiar with an opponent who is known to use the Gish gallop, the technique may be countered by preempting and refuting the opponent’s commonly used arguments first, before the opponent has an opportunity to launch into a Gish gallop.[8] It and the poster won't last long. This is just poking the Barry.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,22:03    Re "It and the poster won't last long. This is just poking the Barry." After which, the moderator will Barry both the posts and the poster?

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 07 2018,22:09    Maybe Barry is just Mullings his options.

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 08 2018,02:42    Quote (Jkrebs @ Dec. 04 2018,22:48)     Quote (Henry J @ Dec. 04 2018,16:22) I just googled it. Something (or Someone) Is Wrong On The Internet Duh. Why didn't I google? Thanks. XKCD on that.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 08 2018,09:12    Quote kairosfocusDecember 8, 2018 at 7:25 am PaV, knowing you that is appreciated; paying back my intellectual debts deficit . Any particular thoughts? KF Fixed it for you.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,17:26    From Santa Barry Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate.

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,17:37    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. Can’t they use some of the money from all the patents their ID research has yielded?  Isn’t Canada’s social safety net capable of taking care of News? -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,18:20    Quote (Texas Teach @ Dec. 11 2018,15:37) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry   Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. Can’t they use some of the money from all the patents their ID research has yielded?  Isn’t Canada’s social safety net capable of taking care of News? Gordon and batshit are hoping to be paid by the word. -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,18:28    Comedy gold. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,18:58    KF is now getting hot under the collar about whether mathematics was invented by humans, or is an objective truth that was discovered by humans. All I can say is “YAWN”. Link

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,19:09    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. It is interesting. Usually after Barry posts an OP, boot lickers like Batshitcrazy77, Mullings and Joe (ET) make a point of commenting quickly in support of him. But when he asks for funds... crickets. As Mullings would say, very telling.

Henry J Posts: 5786 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,19:25    Re "But when he asks for funds... crickets." It bugs his allies?

CeilingCat Posts: 2363 Joined: Dec. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,21:23    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry           Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. No one in the known universe has ever benefitted from News Desk's tireless chasing of the latest ID misunderstandings.  As for KF's in-depth analysis and gpuccio's "insights" - have you considered donating to anyone who reads them for their wasted time and effort? I notice you didn't mention Batshit.  Very telling.  Now make him go away. The main problem, as I see it, is that even if you get rid of Dense, KF, gpuccio and Bat's ass 77, you still have all the other tards left. Edited by CeilingCat on Dec. 11 2018,21:24

Occam's Aftershave Posts: 5287 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 11 2018,22:35    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry   Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. At the Disco Tute's Evolution Spews and Snooze they've got their hand out too.  Every page you go to gives you an obnoxious pop-up asking for cash to "help the DI make an impact".   I wouldn't mind seeing those assclowns make a big impact, with the ground after falling from the 20th floor.   -------------- "CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way" "All the evidence supports Creation baraminology" "If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic." "Jews and Christians are Muslims." - Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

Woodbine Posts: 1218 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,00:58    At least we're no longer being invited to feed Denyse's kitty.

JohnW Posts: 3217 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,12:39    Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,16:58) KF is now getting hot under the collar about whether mathematics was invented by humans, or is an objective truth that was discovered by humans. All I can say is “YAWN”. Link Distinguished mathematician ET: Quote It is my opinion that mathematics is a discovery made by humans that can be used to describe and understand the world that we see around us. And that is because the universe was intelligently designed using mathematics. It's also ET's opinion that there is a largest known number, and that probabilities can be "not even zero." -------------- Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,13:11    Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 11 2018,22:23) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry             Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. No one in the known universe has ever benefitted from News Desk's tireless chasing of the latest ID misunderstandings.  As for KF's in-depth analysis and gpuccio's "insights" - have you considered donating to anyone who reads them for their wasted time and effort? I notice you didn't mention Batshit.  Very telling.  Now make him go away. The main problem, as I see it, is that even if you get rid of Dense, KF, gpuccio and Bat's ass 77, you still have all the other tards left. He pays dense to link to 4 stories a day because if he didn't that site would be dead as a doornail. I've been wondering for a while if one day he is just going to call it quits.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,13:35    Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 12 2018,13:11) Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 11 2018,22:23) Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry             Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. No one in the known universe has ever benefitted from News Desk's tireless chasing of the latest ID misunderstandings.  As for KF's in-depth analysis and gpuccio's "insights" - have you considered donating to anyone who reads them for their wasted time and effort? I notice you didn't mention Batshit.  Very telling.  Now make him go away. The main problem, as I see it, is that even if you get rid of Dense, KF, gpuccio and Bat's ass 77, you still have all the other tards left. He pays dense to link to 4 stories a day because if he didn't that site would be dead as a doornail. I've been wondering for a while if one day he is just going to call it quits. Dense and Dreary is of advanced years so she can only keep it up for so long.

fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,14:56    Quote (Woodbine @ Dec. 11 2018,22:58) At least we're no longer being invited to feed Denyse's kitty. Ew. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Occam's Aftershave Posts: 5287 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,17:00    Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 12 2018,13:11)   Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 11 2018,22:23)   Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry               Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. No one in the known universe has ever benefitted from News Desk's tireless chasing of the latest ID misunderstandings.  As for KF's in-depth analysis and gpuccio's "insights" - have you considered donating to anyone who reads them for their wasted time and effort? I notice you didn't mention Batshit.  Very telling.  Now make him go away. The main problem, as I see it, is that even if you get rid of Dense, KF, gpuccio and Bat's ass 77, you still have all the other tards left. He pays dense to link to 4 stories a day because if he didn't that site would be dead as a doornail. I've been wondering for a while if one day he is just going to call it quits. I wonder where all the tards at UD will disperse if ambulance chaser Barry pulls the plug?  Joke will come here, a few (gpuccio) may go to TSZ but who will take in Batshit77 and kariosflatus? Suggestions? -------------- "CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way" "All the evidence supports Creation baraminology" "If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic." "Jews and Christians are Muslims." - Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

Acartia_Bogart Posts: 2927 Joined: Sep. 2014 (Permalink) Posted: Dec. 12 2018,17:03    Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Dec. 12 2018,17:00) Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 12 2018,13:11)   Quote (CeilingCat @ Dec. 11 2018,22:23)     Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Dec. 11 2018,17:26) From Santa Barry                 Quote Everyone has heard of a “shoestring budget.”  But did you know that UD gets by on an “aglet budget”?  What is an aglet? you ask.  An aglet is that little plastic sheath at the end of a shoestring.  That’s right.  Our budget is so small that we only wish we could get by on a shoestring.  All of which is prelude to our annual holiday fundraising drive.  If you have benefited from our News Desk’s tireless chasing of the latest ID-related happenings, or KF’s in-depth analysis of the fundamentals, or gpuccio’s scientific insights, or any of our other UD features, please consider a donation to help fund our efforts.  The Donate button is there on the right of the screen under the search function.  Thank you! Be sure to tithe, sorry sow a seed, donate. No one in the known universe has ever benefitted from News Desk's tireless chasing of the latest ID misunderstandings.  As for KF's in-depth analysis and gpuccio's "insights" - have you considered donating to anyone who reads them for their wasted time and effort? I notice you didn't mention Batshit.  Very telling.  Now make him go away. The main problem, as I see it, is that even if you get rid of Dense, KF, gpuccio and Bat's ass 77, you still have all the other tards left. He pays dense to link to 4 stories a day because if he didn't that site would be dead as a doornail. I've been wondering for a while if one day he is just going to call it quits. I wonder where all the tards at UD will disperse if ambulance chaser Barry pulls the plug?  Joke will come here, a few (gpuccio) may go to TSZ but who will take in Batshit77 and kariosflatus? :O Suggestions? Bellevue?

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