Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::From "LUCA" thread

Posted: Jan. 06 2006,08:29

What are your views on meteor showers (snigger) 'Paley' (snigger)?

hhmmm??

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Posted: Jan. 06 2006,10:07

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What are your views on meteor showers (snigger) 'Paley' (snigger)?

hhmmm??

�Can someone help me out with this joke? I assume it's an effort to link me with Larry's (alleged) holocaust denial, or Larry in general. But with the Yenta, one can never be sure.....

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Posted: Jan. 06 2006,11:56

I should just ignore it Mr P. OTOH any progress on the Gut to Gametes paper?

cogzoid

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Posted: Jan. 06 2006,14:57

Dean's content-less posts should be ignored by all. Let's see some theories, Paley!

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Posted: Jan. 07 2006,07:58

We've finally reached a point of agreement. Check back Monday - I won't let you down.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,07:26

As mentioned in previous essays, quintessence has the properties of a Bose-Einstein condensate and can thereby retard the velocity of light. In addition, since anything traveling in the quintessence medium can phase in and out of higher dimensions, this will explain the phenomenon of gravitational �lensing�.

The equation governing the group velocity of an electromagnetic pulse through a medium(1) is:

.

where c is the speed of light, omega is the pulse frequency, and n is the index of refraction. This equation can be used to describe the velocity of a laser through a Bose-Einstein condensate. Now, I suspect that Darwinists will maintain that even if this condensate exists, it will not slow starlight uniformly because starlight is not a laser, but rather a distribution of frequencies. This ignores the special properties of quintessence: In seven-dimensional space, all three-dimensional electromagnetic radiation has the same frequency, and hence, will be slowed down uniformly by the condensate. �This frequency will yield a value for n equivalent to the number of elementary charges in the Empyrean(2), or:

Since the frequency goes unchanged, it follows that the second term in the denominator of equation (1) equals zero. This suggests that light travels through quintessence space with the velocity of �

�

m/s

Given this velocity, it would take 9.6532X1045 years for light to travel through one millimeter of quintessence space. This implies an infinitesimally thin spherical shell, justifying my simplifying assumptions in the Gaussian model. Casmir ripples in the quintessence flux create the redshift phenomenon of stars, producing false correlations between redshift and stellar distance. �To repeat for the thick-headed, the sphere of the fixed stars is not exactly of uniform thickness, and these differences produce the illusions alluded to in this paragraph.

Now, the illusion of gravitational lensing is also explained by the multidimensional properties of quintessence. This comes from the fact that light is occasionally reflected across a mirror in higher-dimensional space and reflected back again, creating a second ghost image indistinguishable from the first.

1 Light speed reduction

2
Authoritative source

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,07:33

Note to nutters: I edited the last post to remove a typo, changing "feflected" to "reflected".

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,10:20

You should check your links too, Mr. P, i am not sure if anyone else has a Panthercard for Georgia State Uni. I don't

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,10:21

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I should just ignore it Mr P. OTOH any progress on the Gut to Gametes paper?

On the subject of lateral gene transfer, it is important to realize the only evidence organisms have genes in common with other organisms is the fact that when you take some biological material from an organism--sometimes whipped through a centrifuge, somethimes not-- and run it through the gel electrophoresis gauntlet you have occasional similarities in which lanes win this electrostatic race. Who knows what this means. I could make one sample out of spit and the other out of pee and write one paper "proving" my kinship to monkeys and another "proving" my kinship to E. coli. What makes organisms "similar" in this sense is that we eat each other. Molecular fragments from ingestion can easily end up in the samples used for the static shock Nascar circuit. This is why anybody can construct any phylogenic tree he wishes based on whatever presuppositions tickle his fancy. Yeah Darwinists! Paley has exposed your tea-leaf reading charade for all the world to see!

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,10:31

Here is a picture of this popular evolutionists' toy that allegedly "proves" their molecoles-to-man theory. Biological material is dissolved in colored goo and then electrodes are placed at each end of the apparatus and they have a race. The winner is in the one with the lowest mass-to-charge ratio.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,10:35

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Yeah Darwinists! Paley has exposed your tea-leaf reading charade for all the world to see!

I hope this is a rough draught, Mr P. Such unscholarly language may not be appreciated at peer review. i recall you suggested that DNA from ingested organisms could enter the germ line of the consuming (multicellular) organism. Now you seem to be suggesting that lab work is fraudulent. So far, I'm disappointed. There must be more. Please take time to collect your thoughts.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,10:45

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You should check your links too, Mr. P, i am not sure if anyone else has a Panthercard for Georgia State Uni. I don't

I'm sorry. Here is the Citation:

Title: Light speed reduction to 17 metres per second in an ultracold atomic gas. (cover story)
Subject(s): ATOMS; BOSE-Einstein condensation; COOLING; LIGHT -- Speed; LOW temperature research; MENSURATION; QUANTUM optics
Author(s): Hau, Lene Vestergaard; Harris, S.E.; Dutton, Zachary; Behroozi, Cyrus H.
Source: Nature, 2/18/99, Vol. 397 Issue 6720, p594, 5p, 4 graphs, 3bw
Abstract: Describes the use of sodium atoms at nanokelvin temperatures to observe light pulses travelling at velocities of only 17 meters per second. Process of loading and cooling atoms; Question of whether the atom cloud remains in the Bose-Einstein condensed state during the interaction with the probe; Proposal that with some technical improvements still lower velocities can be achieved; Observation of large optical non-linearities, in the form of an intensity-dependent refractive index.
AN: 1568994
ISSN: 0028-0836

Unfortunately, you will have to pay for this if you don't have access to a University library with a subscription.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,10:49

Alan Fox wrote:

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hope this is a rough draught, Mr P. Such unscholarly language may not be appreciated at peer review. i recall you suggested that DNA from ingested organisms could enter the germ line of the consuming (multicellular) organism. Now you seem to be suggesting that lab work is fraudulent. So far, I'm �disappointed. There must be more. Please take time to collect your thoughts.

�Just some premature celebration; sorry again for the bad link. The failure of evo theory in no way impacts on my original hypothesis, which remains absolutely solid, and crucially depends on modern research into the immune system. You won't be disappointed, only frustrated that it took an outsider to put it all together.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,11:03

By the way, finding a possible source of contamination in trad evo research is but one prong of my theory, which does not rely on evo mistakes to make its case. My work's multifaceted nature resists facile pigeonholing. Much more later.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,11:05

Mr P,

Disappoinment doesn't quite cover it, If you come up trumps, I'll be flabbergasted. Best of luck.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,11:19

Inspired by our debate (not that he'd ever admit it), John Derbyshire has waded in with an opinion on Secular vs. Religious societies, as well as other topics. Worth reading.

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,11:28

Yes, amusing article Mr P.

The "discrepancy" between claimed and observed attendance at church made me chuckle. But can you afford these distractions, with your paper to hone into shape?

cogzoid

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Posted: Jan. 09 2006,12:18

I must say, I do love when the under-educated nutjobs scan over the latest developments in the forefront of science, claim that they were right all along, and try to cram highly technical papers that they don't understand into their kludge of a theory. The nutjobs that do this are dime a dozen, and unsuprisingly their theories never make it past the web or a self-published pamphlet. It's great to be able to converse with one, and get an idea of what makes them tick.

Now to the latest questions for Paley's theory:

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This ignores the special properties of quintessence: In seven-dimensional space, all three-dimensional electromagnetic radiation has the same frequency, and hence, will be slowed down uniformly by the condensate.

Where does this come from? I realize that you're making it up as you go along, but perhaps you can make up a more in depth description of the maths that support this.

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This frequency will yield a value for n equivalent to the number of elementary charges in the Empyrean(2)

Why on a flat earth would the index of refraction follow the total amount of elementary charges in a structure? I guess you don't feel you need to show any work to back this up either.

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Casmir ripples in the quintessence flux create the redshift phenomenon of stars, producing false correlations between redshift and stellar distance.

Casmir forces, another favorite for crackpots. Let's see what we have so far: Dark Energy, BECs, Quintessence, Casmir forces, Quantum Mechanics, Super-fluidity, Perfect crystals, superfluid solids, multiple dimensions... Did I miss anything? Most nutjobs stick to just a few of these per theory. You are nothing if not ambitious.

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Posted: Jan. 10 2006,00:50

Mr The Ghost of Paley

I just came across This site which seems perfect for you to enter your "dangerous questions" rather than waste your time with us peasants.

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What is your dangerous idea? An idea you think about (not necessarily one you originated) that is dangerous not because it is assumed to be false, but because it might be true?

Julie Stahlhut

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Posted: Jan. 10 2006,03:32

Wow! �Now I'm eager to get my hands on that cool multicolored gel-loading dye. �The stuff we use in my lab just separates into two comparatively boring shades of blue.

I'd be careful with that "toy", though. �Chances are, it's got ethidium bromide in it.

ericmurphy

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Posted: Jan. 10 2006,11:18

Hmm. I gotta say, Bill, the more I read, the more disappointed I become. So far you've claimed that your "quintessence" can slow down light, something any ordinary sheet of plate glass can do (albeit not to the point where light essentially stands still).

But I think we're still a few decades away from your proof that the cosmic abundances of protons, neutrons, hydrogen and helium nuclei, etc. which are so exquisitely related by the inflationary big bang theory to the temperature of the CMB in fact has some entirely different explanation. And then there's still the first one on my list from back in early November, i.e., the Hertzsprung-Russell relationship.

Should I just come back in, say, 2026?

Also, at risk of completely derailing a discourse that's already essentially plunged into the gorge, I suggest you give Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" a read. I think Mr. Diamond has some rather compelling ideas about the relative technological prowess of various cultures and why they might be that way.

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,05:10

ericmurphy wrote:

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Should I just come back in, say, 2026?

I'm planning on refining the redshift part of the theory, and I'd like your input on the proposed physical consequences (I already have Cogzie to quibble over the math �

). I agree that it would be couterproductive to develop a global theory before examining certain aspects of the model, so I'm going to stick with one piece for now. Hopefully this will restore your confidence.

Quote

Also, at risk of completely derailing a discourse that's already essentially plunged into the gorge, I suggest you give Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" a read. I think Mr. Diamond has some rather compelling ideas about the relative technological prowess of various cultures and why they might be that way.

Yes, this is an excellent book that occupies a prominent place on my bookshelf. In fact, if you want to discuss it further, one of us can create a new thread. Three things to remember:
1) I am not a racist, so most of his arguments are irrelevant to my political philosophy.
2) Just like his namesake, Mr. Diamond is a racist. He clearly advocates black supremacy in the prologue. I'll be happy to quote the relevant bits if you'd like.
3) Unfortunately, parts of his argument actually strengthen the position of white supremacists.

�I'll be happy to elaborate in another thread.

Julie Stahlhut wrote:

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Wow! �Now I'm eager to get my hands on that cool multicolored gel-loading dye. �The stuff we use in my lab just separates into two comparatively boring shades of blue.

Would you comment on my "guts to gamete" paper when I present it? If you have time, of course.

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,05:54

Mr P asks Ms Stahlhut

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Would you comment on my "guts to gamete" paper when I present it?

Mr P. I think you can be assured of many comments when the moment arises. My breath is well and truly bated

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,06:32

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Mr P. I think you can be assured of many comments when the moment arises. My breath is well and truly bated

Oh yes, I know you'll have plenty to say, and I anticipate your response. But something tells me that Ms. Stahlhut would also like to reply, and I just wanted to make it clear that anyone's free to jump in (Ms. Smith, are you listening? I recall that your specialty involves immunology - don't be shy). �

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Dean Morrison

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,07:45

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1) Ghost of Paley:
I am not a racist, so most of his arguments are irrelevant to my political philosophy.

In response to this - a 'content only' reply by myself:

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Quote: Dean Morrison
You meet the OED definition of a racist because of your clear statements that you would discriminate on grounds of race ( in the case of immigration to the US for example).

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Quote: Ghost of Paley :
Ummm, Yenta, Northeast Asians are not a race, the Jews are not a race, East Indians are not a race: they are ethnic groups, and each group is concentrated in a particular nation: China, Japan, Korea, India, Israel. If I wanted to use racial classifications, I would have used the terms "Asian" and "Caucasian". Yet I avoided the broader racial categories, choosing to focus on nationalities instead. Why? Because each of these groups assimilate into Western society. Many of their racial cohorts do not.

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Quote: Dean Morrison
You ran away from that challenge on the 'Pandas' site - so there it stands, unrefuted, and unrefutable - unless you are prepared to withdraw all the racist statements you have made?

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Quote: Ghost of Paley:
What racist statements? That some nationalities assimilate better into Western society? That some cultures are not suited to developed societies? If that's racist, then the truth is racist (shrug).

... go figure.

ericmurphy

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,07:47

Quote (The Ghost of Paley @ Jan. 11 2006,11:10)

Just like his namesake, Mr. Diamond is a racist. He clearly advocates black supremacy in the prologue. I'll be happy to quote the relevant bits if you'd like.

This should definitely go in a new thread, but at even greater risk to life and limb of the train passengers, I do want to take issue with your claim that Dr. Diamond is a "racist." By any conventional use of the term, he most certainly is not a racist. I know the passages you're going to quote, and I'm going to point out that Diamond's opinion is not with regard to any genetic or racial differential, but rather a difference in intelligence due to situation and circumstances, which is a very different thing. He certainly says nothing that would lead one to believe he is advocating black (New Guineans are not racially black, for one thing) supremacy, or any supremacy, for that matter.

Anyone who discusses race or culture is obviously treading very treacherous waters, as you, Mr. Paley, are certainly aware. Diamond himself is very aware of how his dicussion of race and culture can be misinterpreted by those with a desire to misinterpret, and he says so in the book. But the truth of the matter is that a dispassionate reading of "Guns, Germs, and Steel" will provide no comfort to those who think that any particular race has any intellectual advantage over any other race, nor to those who think that any particular civilization's successes are due to the inherent superiority of its members.

And the truth of the matter, Bill, is even if there were provable, consistent differences in intelligence, fitness, propensity to crime, etc. among races or cultural groups, that would provide no ethical support for discriminatory practices. It would still be the case that each person should be judged based on his or her own personal merits, and not by the racial or cultural group to which he or she belongs. Human beings are individuals, not statistics. Even if you could prove that, e.g. caucasians were 50% more likely to commit crimes than, e.g., asians, would that mean laws should be enforced more diligently against caucasians?

In a word: no.

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,08:17

Scroll down to the first Jan. 9th post to see why the Yenta's lying (again).

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Posted: Jan. 11 2006,08:53

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This should definitely go in a new thread, but at even greater risk to life and limb of the train passengers, I do want to take issue with your claim that Dr. Diamond is a "racist."

O.K., I'll start a new thread. Actually, this book deserves its own space for many reasons, not the least being the author himself (who's an evo biologist). I don't even mind if others jump in. But it's your call here.

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cogzoid

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