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Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:21   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:17)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:09)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:06)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:59)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:55)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:45)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Yet you told us all the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which you called "originally designed archetypes".  

I told you that science supports limited descent with modification.

Ignoring the fact you're lying again about your previous YEC baraminology claims:

I never made any YEC claims,

Joe Gallien, compulsive liar gets caught again.

       
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31)

And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology.

And as I have explained many, many times- that means limited descent with modification.

Then tell us what original "kinds" extant species "limited descended" FROM

That is what SCIENCE is for

Yep.  SCIENCE has already demonstrated there were no such thing as separately created "kinds".

Why you keep pushing your YEC "kinds" stupidity just shows how ignorant and dishonest Joke Gallien really is.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
k.e..



Posts: 4882
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:21   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,17:17)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:09)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:06)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:59)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:55)
       
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:45)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Yet you told us all the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which you called "originally designed archetypes".  

I told you that science supports limited descent with modification.

Ignoring the fact you're lying again about your previous YEC baraminology claims:

I never made any YEC claims,

Joe Gallien, compulsive liar gets caught again.

       
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31)

And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology.

And as I have explained many, many times- that means limited descent with modification.

Then tell us what original "kinds" extant species "limited descended" FROM

That is what SCIENCE is for, dumbass. Your position doesn't have any answers and yet your willfully ignorant and hypocritical ass wants ID to have ALL of the answers.

You are a pathetic little imp, timmy tutu

Ooooooh a creationist begs a Behe.

Except tat ain't a legal move. It's more of a fuck Joe's  ass quickly before anyone notices.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:24   

Quote (k.e.. @ Sep. 13 2018,09:21)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,17:17)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:09)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:06)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:59)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:55)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:45)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
             
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Yet you told us all the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which you called "originally designed archetypes".  

I told you that science supports limited descent with modification.

Ignoring the fact you're lying again about your previous YEC baraminology claims:

I never made any YEC claims,

Joe Gallien, compulsive liar gets caught again.

         
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31)

And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology.

And as I have explained many, many times- that means limited descent with modification.

Then tell us what original "kinds" extant species "limited descended" FROM

That is what SCIENCE is for, dumbass. Your position doesn't have any answers and yet your willfully ignorant and hypocritical ass wants ID to have ALL of the answers.

You are a pathetic little imp, timmy tutu

Ooooooh a creationist begs a Behe.

Except tat ain't a legal move. It's more of a fuck Joe's  ass quickly before anyone notices.

It's Joke's standard cowardly evasion when backed into a corner.  We've seen it a thousand times.   :)

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:25   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:21)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:17)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:09)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:06)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:59)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:55)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:45)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
             
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Yet you told us all the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which you called "originally designed archetypes".  

I told you that science supports limited descent with modification.

Ignoring the fact you're lying again about your previous YEC baraminology claims:

I never made any YEC claims,

Joe Gallien, compulsive liar gets caught again.

         
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31)

And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology.

And as I have explained many, many times- that means limited descent with modification.

Then tell us what original "kinds" extant species "limited descended" FROM

That is what SCIENCE is for

Yep.  SCIENCE has already demonstrated there were no such thing as separately created "kinds".

Liar

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:26   

If you take a look at ATP synthase you can see it consists of two major subunits (F0 & F1) that are connected together by an external tether. This tether doesn't have anything to do with the functionality of either subunit but without it no ATP synthase. The problem for evolution by blind and mindless processes is exacerbated. Not only does it need to produce the two subunits but one has to be embedded in some membrane so that a gradient can be formed. And the other has to to be stably tethered to the membrane the proper distance away. The tether looks like the membrane subunit F0 somehow formed an external docking site the proper length with F1 forming an external mating site.

Again these two different protein subunits, the tether and mate, have nothing to do with the function of the protein complexes they are attached to and tether together. And without them there is no way to get the two working subunits together to produce ATP.

There you have it- A simple external tether that stably holds the major F1 subunit/ rotary motor the proper distance away from its F0 motor force is evidence for the Intelligent Design of ATP synthase. The two major subunits and how it works is just icing on the cake.

ATP synthase- meets the design criteria and no one has a clue as to how blind and mindless processes could have produced it.

Cue the evoTARD drooling and flailing



The architecture and subunit composition of ATP synthase


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:27   

Science mandates those making the claim of universal common descent provide the evidence and mechanism for it. I know that it bothers you that you don't even have a mechanism for producing eukaryotes and as such your claim can't even be scientifically tested and relies solely on faith.

SCIENCE- Lenski's LTEE has nothing to do with ID but it does demonstrate the severe limits of evolution.

The paper waiting for two mutations is a dagger in the heart of universal Common Descent. And it tried to refute Dr Behe who said his edge was two mutations, meaning THREE were over it.

Sexual selection tends to keep the norm. Natural selection tends to weed out the outliers.


No mechanism to produce eukaryotes- more evidence for limited descent with modification

All science



--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:28   

ke and the scientifically illiterate band


:p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p  :p

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:29   

Quote (k.e.. @ Sep. 13 2018,09:21)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,17:17)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:09)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:06)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:59)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:55)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:45)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Yet you told us all the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which you called "originally designed archetypes".  

I told you that science supports limited descent with modification.

Ignoring the fact you're lying again about your previous YEC baraminology claims:

I never made any YEC claims,

Joe Gallien, compulsive liar gets caught again.

       
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31)

And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology.

And as I have explained many, many times- that means limited descent with modification.

Then tell us what original "kinds" extant species "limited descended" FROM

That is what SCIENCE is for, dumbass. Your position doesn't have any answers and yet your willfully ignorant and hypocritical ass wants ID to have ALL of the answers.

You are a pathetic little imp, timmy tutu

Ooooooh a creationist begs a Behe.

Except tat ain't a legal move. It's more of a fuck Joe's  ass quickly before anyone notices.

ke is too chickenshit to even attempt to find support for its position's claims

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:30   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:24)
Quote (k.e.. @ Sep. 13 2018,09:21)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,17:17)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:09)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:06)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:59)
         
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:55)
           
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:45)
             
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
             
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Yet you told us all the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which you called "originally designed archetypes".  

I told you that science supports limited descent with modification.

Ignoring the fact you're lying again about your previous YEC baraminology claims:

I never made any YEC claims,

Joe Gallien, compulsive liar gets caught again.

         
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2010,10:31)

And as a matter of fact all observations and experiments support the Creation position of baraminology.

And as I have explained many, many times- that means limited descent with modification.

Then tell us what original "kinds" extant species "limited descended" FROM

That is what SCIENCE is for, dumbass. Your position doesn't have any answers and yet your willfully ignorant and hypocritical ass wants ID to have ALL of the answers.

You are a pathetic little imp, timmy tutu

Ooooooh a creationist begs a Behe.

Except tat ain't a legal move. It's more of a fuck Joe's  ass quickly before anyone notices.

It's Joke's standard cowardly evasion when backed into a corner.  We've seen it a thousand times.   :)

You're the only one backed into a corner and evading everything at all costs.

Do you really think that lurkers don't see what you are doing?

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:32   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Sep. 12 2018,21:21)
Quote (Acartia_Bogart @ Sep. 12 2018,11:49)
Batshitcrazy77
 
Quote
My sentiments exactly. If he persists in this behavior, I will request that he be banned (once again) from UD for trolling.

This never gets old.

I was trolling ba by asking him questions that I wanted him to answer in his own words.

Yes, Jack, you are a troll- that and a liar- or was it willful ignorance? You never said

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:39   

Yes Intelligent Design is both testable and potentially falsifiable.

ID is based on three premises and the inference that follows (DeWolf et al., Darwinism, Design and Public Education, pg. 92):

Quote
1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design.

2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity.

3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity.

4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.



There you have it- to falsify Intelligent Design all one has to do is demonstrate that natural selection can produce irreducibly complex biological systems as defined by Intelligent Design.

The criteria for inferring design in biology is, as Michael J. Behe, Professor of Biochemistry at Leheigh University, puts it in his book Darwin ‘ s Black Box: “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.” That is the positive case.

The ATP Synthase is a system that consists of two subsystems-> one for the flow of protons down an electrochemical gradient from the exterior to the interior and the other (a rotary engine) that generates ATP from ADP using the energy liberated by proton flow. These two processes are totally unrelated from a purely physiochemical perspective*- meaning there isn’t any general principle of physics nor chemistry by which these two processes have anything to do with each other. Yet here they are.

How is this evidence for Intelligent Design? Cause and effect relationships as in designers often take two totally unrelated systems and integrate them into one. The ordering of separate subsystems to produce a specific effect that neither can do alone. And those subsystems are composed of the ordering of separate components to achieve a specified function.

ATP synthase is not reducible to chance and necessity and also meets the criteria of design.

So the truth is ID is scientific and evolutionism is not. Evos have no idea how to test the claim that ATP synthase evolved by means of natural selection, drift or any other blind and mindless process


Let the evoTARD ignoring of the evidence continue

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
k.e..



Posts: 4882
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,09:52   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,17:17)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:16)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:11)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:01)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:58)
       
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:54)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
             
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Post this overwhelming evidence that identifies the "kinds" and describe the barrier which is impossible for a "kind" to evolve across.

it is NOT up to anyone to demonstrate any barrier exists.

Yes it is

No, it isn't,

Joe admits he has no evidence for ID-Creationism.

ID-Creationism only exists in the minds of willfully ignorant evoTARDs.

I have posted plenty of evidence in support of ID- all of which you choked on like a willfully ignorant faggot.

Joe runs from supporting his claims again.   :D

Yes Intelligent Design is both testable and potentially falsifiable.

ID is based on three premises and the inference that follows (DeWolf et al., Darwinism, Design and Public Education, pg. 92):

Quote
1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design.

2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity.

3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity.

4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.



There you have it- to falsify Intelligent Design all one has to do is demonstrate that natural selection can produce irreducibly complex biological systems as defined by Intelligent Design.

The criteria for inferring design in biology is, as Michael J. Behe, Professor of Biochemistry at Leheigh University, puts it in his book Darwin ‘ s Black Box: “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.” That is the positive case.

The ATP Synthase is a system that consists of two subsystems-> one for the flow of protons down an electrochemical gradient from the exterior to the interior and the other (a rotary engine) that generates ATP from ADP using the energy liberated by proton flow. These two processes are totally unrelated from a purely physiochemical perspective*- meaning there isn’t any general principle of physics nor chemistry by which these two processes have anything to do with each other. Yet here they are.

How is this evidence for Intelligent Design? Cause and effect relationships as in designers often take two totally unrelated systems and integrate them into one. The ordering of separate subsystems to produce a specific effect that neither can do alone. And those subsystems are composed of the ordering of separate components to achieve a specified function.

ATP synthase is not reducible to chance and necessity and also meets the criteria of design.

So the truth is ID is scientific and evolutionism is not. Evos have no idea how to test the claim that ATP synthase evolved by means of natural selection, drift or any other blind and mindless process


Let the evoTARD ignoring of the evidence continue

WHAT?

Mud to godz?

Joe you are are OXYMORON.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,10:02   

Quote (k.e.. @ Sep. 13 2018,09:52)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,17:17)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:16)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:14)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,09:11)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,09:01)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,08:58)
         
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,08:54)
             
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 12 2018,21:43)
             
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 12 2018,21:00)
none of what I posted has anything to do with creation.

Post this overwhelming evidence that identifies the "kinds" and describe the barrier which is impossible for a "kind" to evolve across.

it is NOT up to anyone to demonstrate any barrier exists.

Yes it is

No, it isn't,

Joe admits he has no evidence for ID-Creationism.

ID-Creationism only exists in the minds of willfully ignorant evoTARDs.

I have posted plenty of evidence in support of ID- all of which you choked on like a willfully ignorant faggot.

Joe runs from supporting his claims again.   :D

Yes Intelligent Design is both testable and potentially falsifiable.

ID is based on three premises and the inference that follows (DeWolf et al., Darwinism, Design and Public Education, pg. 92):

 
Quote
1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design.

2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity.

3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity.

4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.



There you have it- to falsify Intelligent Design all one has to do is demonstrate that natural selection can produce irreducibly complex biological systems as defined by Intelligent Design.

The criteria for inferring design in biology is, as Michael J. Behe, Professor of Biochemistry at Leheigh University, puts it in his book Darwin ‘ s Black Box: “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.” That is the positive case.

The ATP Synthase is a system that consists of two subsystems-> one for the flow of protons down an electrochemical gradient from the exterior to the interior and the other (a rotary engine) that generates ATP from ADP using the energy liberated by proton flow. These two processes are totally unrelated from a purely physiochemical perspective*- meaning there isn’t any general principle of physics nor chemistry by which these two processes have anything to do with each other. Yet here they are.

How is this evidence for Intelligent Design? Cause and effect relationships as in designers often take two totally unrelated systems and integrate them into one. The ordering of separate subsystems to produce a specific effect that neither can do alone. And those subsystems are composed of the ordering of separate components to achieve a specified function.

ATP synthase is not reducible to chance and necessity and also meets the criteria of design.

So the truth is ID is scientific and evolutionism is not. Evos have no idea how to test the claim that ATP synthase evolved by means of natural selection, drift or any other blind and mindless process


Let the evoTARD ignoring of the evidence continue

WHAT?

Mud to godz?

Joe you are are OXYMORON.

Whatever, ke of the scientifically illiterate band.

Thank you for ignoring the science and the evidence, as predicted.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,12:19   

Joke's TARDGASM rolls on and on and on....

What Joke has told us so far:

ID has been falsified since IC structures were empirically observed to evolve through indirect means.

All the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which ID calls "originally designed archetypes" but no science research is available which support the claim.

The Earth is really young, just made from old materials.

The whole universe was designed and created just for humans even though 99.9999999999% of it will kill us instantly

The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.

Gotta love Joke's ID-Creation "science".  :)

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,12:44   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:19)
ID has been been falsified since IC structures were empirically observed to evolve through indirect means.

All the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which ID calls "originally designed archetypes" but no science research is available which support the claim.

The Earth is really young, just made from old materials.

The whole universe was designed and created just for humans even though 99.9999999999% of it will kill us instantly

The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.

timmy tutu is clearly so desperate it has the lie like a bich in heat

Quote
ID has been falsified since IC structures were empirically observed to evolve through indirect means.


That is a lie- no one has ever "empirically observed" IC structures evolving by means of blind and mindless processes.

Quote
All the scientific evidence supports Biblical created "kinds" which ID calls "originally designed archetypes" but no science research is available which support the claim.


That is a lie all scientific research supports limited descent with modification

Quote
The Earth is really young,


I said no one knows the age of the earth as that depends on how it was formed


Quote
just made from old materials.


Even timmy tutu's position says that.

Quote
The whole universe was designed and created just for humans


I never made that claim. But I do know that you don't have anything to explain the universe and you are just a belligerent shit

Quote
The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.


Nope. Darwinian processes fucked up the design such tat now we have to live with the defects

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,12:45   

Yes Intelligent Design is both testable and potentially falsifiable.

ID is based on three premises and the inference that follows (DeWolf et al., Darwinism, Design and Public Education, pg. 92):

Quote
1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design.

2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity.

3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity.

4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.



There you have it- to falsify Intelligent Design all one has to do is demonstrate that natural selection can produce irreducibly complex biological systems as defined by Intelligent Design.

The criteria for inferring design in biology is, as Michael J. Behe, Professor of Biochemistry at Leheigh University, puts it in his book Darwin ‘ s Black Box: [b]“Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.”
That is the positive case.

The ATP Synthase is a system that consists of two subsystems-> one for the flow of protons down an electrochemical gradient from the exterior to the interior and the other (a rotary engine) that generates ATP from ADP using the energy liberated by proton flow. These two processes are totally unrelated from a purely physiochemical perspective*- meaning there isn’t any general principle of physics nor chemistry by which these two processes have anything to do with each other. Yet here they are.

How is this evidence for Intelligent Design? Cause and effect relationships as in designers often take two totally unrelated systems and integrate them into one. The ordering of separate subsystems to produce a specific effect that neither can do alone. And those subsystems are composed of the ordering of separate components to achieve a specified function.

ATP synthase is not reducible to chance and necessity and also meets the criteria of design.

So the truth is ID is scientific and evolutionism is not. Evos have no idea how to test the claim that ATP synthase evolved by means of natural selection, drift or any other blind and mindless process


Let the evoTARD ignoring of the evidence continue
[/B]

Suck on that, timmy tutu of the runaways

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,12:53   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,12:44)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:19)


The whole universe was designed and created just for humans

I never made that claim.

So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joke?   Who was it then?

You don't even try to hide your lies anymore.   :)

Quote
Quote
The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.

Nope. Darwinian processes fucked up the design such tat now we have to live with the defects

So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  Thanks for "tat" admission Joke.  :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,12:59   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:53)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,12:44)
       
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:19)


The whole universe was designed and created just for humans

I never made that claim.

So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joke?   Who was it then?

You don't even try to hide your lies anymore.   :)

Quote
Quote
The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.

Nope. Darwinian processes fucked up the design such tat now we have to live with the defects

So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  Thanks for "tat" admission Joke.  :D

Quote
So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joe?


Strawman humping! That book doesn't make the claim you made

Quote
So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  


That doesn't follow from what I posted. Clearly you are just a pathetic asshole

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,13:00   

Yes Intelligent Design is both testable and potentially falsifiable.

ID is based on three premises and the inference that follows (DeWolf et al., Darwinism, Design and Public Education, pg. 92):

Quote
1) High information content (or specified complexity) and irreducible complexity constitute strong indicators or hallmarks of (past) intelligent design.

2) Biological systems have a high information content (or specified complexity) and utilize subsystems that manifest irreducible complexity.

3) Naturalistic mechanisms or undirected causes do not suffice to explain the origin of information (specified complexity) or irreducible complexity.

4) Therefore, intelligent design constitutes the best explanations for the origin of information and irreducible complexity in biological systems.



There you have it- to falsify Intelligent Design all one has to do is demonstrate that natural selection can produce irreducibly complex biological systems as defined by Intelligent Design.

The criteria for inferring design in biology is, as Michael J. Behe, Professor of Biochemistry at Leheigh University, puts it in his book Darwin ‘ s Black Box: “Our ability to be confident of the design of the cilium or intracellular transport rests on the same principles to be confident of the design of anything: the ordering of separate components to achieve an identifiable function that depends sharply on the components.” That is the positive case.

The ATP Synthase is a system that consists of two subsystems-> one for the flow of protons down an electrochemical gradient from the exterior to the interior and the other (a rotary engine) that generates ATP from ADP using the energy liberated by proton flow. These two processes are totally unrelated from a purely physiochemical perspective*- meaning there isn’t any general principle of physics nor chemistry by which these two processes have anything to do with each other. Yet here they are.

How is this evidence for Intelligent Design? Cause and effect relationships as in designers often take two totally unrelated systems and integrate them into one. The ordering of separate subsystems to produce a specific effect that neither can do alone. And those subsystems are composed of the ordering of separate components to achieve a specified function.

ATP synthase is not reducible to chance and necessity and also meets the criteria of design.

So the truth is ID is scientific and evolutionism is not. Evos have no idea how to test the claim that ATP synthase evolved by means of natural selection, drift or any other blind and mindless process


Let the evoTARD ignoring of the evidence continue

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,13:02   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,12:59)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:53)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,12:44)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:19)


The whole universe was designed and created just for humans

I never made that claim.

So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joke?   Who was it then?

You don't even try to hide your lies anymore.   :)

   
Quote
   
Quote
The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.

Nope. Darwinian processes fucked up the design such tat now we have to live with the defects

So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  Thanks for "tat" admission Joke.  :D

 
Quote
So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joe?


Strawman humping! That book doesn't make the claim you made


So Earth wasn't designed for humans.   You can't even keep your ID-Creationist lies straight

Quote
Quote
So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  


That doesn't follow from what I posted. Clearly you are just a pathetic asshole


Behe says resistance was designed, you say it wasn't.  Who to believe?

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,13:36   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,13:02)
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,12:59)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:53)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,12:44)
           
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:19)


The whole universe was designed and created just for humans

I never made that claim.

So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joke?   Who was it then?

You don't even try to hide your lies anymore.   :)

   
Quote
   
Quote
The Designer is a sadistic monster who deliberately gave malaria bacteria resistance to anti-malaria drugs so more humans will die.

Nope. Darwinian processes fucked up the design such tat now we have to live with the defects

So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  Thanks for "tat" admission Joke.  :D

   
Quote
So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joe?


Strawman humping! That book doesn't make the claim you made


So Earth wasn't designed for humans.   You can't even keep your ID-Creationist lies straight

 
Quote
 
Quote
So Behe was wrong and anti-malarial drug resistance evolved naturally.  


That doesn't follow from what I posted. Clearly you are just a pathetic asshole


Behe says resistance was designed, you say it wasn't.  Who to believe?

Quote
So Earth wasn't designed for humans.


Non-sequitur.

Are you retarded?

Quote
Behe says resistance was designed, you say it wasn't.


I say the fact that it is a harmful parasite is due to Darwinian evolution acting on intelligently designed organisms.

That it can evade eradication- meaning it can adapt on the fly- or mosquito or human- says it was intelligently designed to adapt.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,13:40   

Quote
The whole universe was designed and created just for humans


I never made that claim.

Quote
So it wasn't you pimping "Privileged Planet" here for the last few years Joe?


Strawman humping! That book doesn't make the claim you made

Quote
So Earth wasn't designed for humans.


Non-sequitur.

Are you retarded?


timmy tutu makes a claim and gets called on it.

Instead of supporting that claim timmy tutu tries a diversion.

Then when called on that timmy tutu triples down on its ignorance by spewing a non-sequitur.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,13:55   

"The Privileged Planet" makes the case that the UNIVERSE was intelligently designed for scientific discovery. Also that the Earth is not only a great platform to do so but that it also happens to harbor intelligent agencies that can actually do the scientific discovering.

And that the two- the conditions that make it a great platform from which to make scientific discoveries and that those conditions are highly conducive for the existence of those intelligent agencies.

The Moon is 400x smaller than the Sun yet being 400x closer it provides total solar eclipses which opened up the scientific discoveries of the flash spectrum and gravity bending light.

Quote
“The same narrow circumstances that allow us to exist also provide us with the best over all conditions for making scientific discoveries.”

“The one place that has observers is the one place that also has perfect solar eclipses.”

“There is a final, even more bizarre twist. Because of Moon-induced tides, the Moon is gradually receding from Earth at 3.82 centimeters per year. In ten million years will seem noticeably smaller. At the same time, the Sun’s apparent girth has been swelling by six centimeters per year for ages, as is normal in stellar evolution. These two processes, working together, should end total solar eclipses in about 250 million years, a mere 5 percent of the age of the Earth. This relatively small window of opportunity also happens to coincide with the existence of intelligent life. Put another way, the most habitable place in the Solar System yields the best view of solar eclipses just when observers can best appreciate them.” The Privileged Planet


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Henry J



Posts: 5172
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,13:57   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,12:02)
Behe says resistance was designed, you say it wasn't.  Who to believe?

Resistance is futile.

  
Henry J



Posts: 5172
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,14:00   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,11:19)
ID has been falsified since IC structures were empirically observed to evolve through indirect means.

Wouldn't that only invalidate that one argument, rather than addressing the, er, "hypothesis"?

  
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,14:14   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 13 2018,14:00)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,11:19)
ID has been falsified since IC structures were empirically observed to evolve through indirect means.

Wouldn't that only invalidate that one argument, rather than addressing the, er, "hypothesis"?

Quote
Now, one can’t have it both ways. One can’t say both that ID is unfalsifiable (or untestable) and that there is evidence against it. Either it is unfalsifiable and floats serenely beyond experimental reproach, or it can be criticized on the basis of our observations and is therefore testable. The fact that critical reviewers advance scientific arguments against ID (whether successfully or not) shows that intelligent design is indeed falsifiable.

In fact, my argument for intelligent design is open to direct experimental rebuttal. Here is a thought experiment that makes the point clear. In Darwin’s Black Box (Behe 1996) I claimed that the bacterial flagellum was irreducibly complex and so required deliberate intelligent design. The flip side of this claim is that the flagellum can’t be produced by natural selection acting on random mutation, or any other unintelligent process. To falsify such a claim, a scientist could go into the laboratory, place a bacterial species lacking a flagellum under some selective pressure (for mobility, say), grow it for ten thousand generations, and see if a flagellum--or any equally complex system--was produced. If that happened, my claims would be neatly disproven.(1)

How about Professor Coyne’s concern that, if one system were shown to be the result of natural selection, proponents of ID could just claim that some other system was designed? I think the objection has little force. If natural selection were shown to be capable of producing a system of a certain degree of complexity, then the assumption would be that it could produce any other system of an equal or lesser degree of complexity. If Coyne demonstrated that the flagellum (which requires approximately forty gene products) could be produced by selection, I would be rather foolish to then assert that the blood clotting system (which consists of about twenty proteins) required intelligent design.

Let’s turn the tables and ask, how could one falsify the claim that, say, the bacterial flagellum was produced by Darwinian processes?- Dr Michael Behe


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6912
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,14:18   

Irreducible Complexity:
Quote
IC- A system performing a given basic function is irreducibly complex if it includes a set of well-matched, mutually interacting, non-arbitrarily individuated parts such that each part in the set is indispensable to maintaining the system’s basic, and therefore original, function. The set of these indispensable parts is known as the irreducible core of the system. Page 285 No Free Lunch

Numerous and Diverse Parts If the irreducible core of an IC system consists of one or only a few parts, there may be no insuperable obstacle to the Darwinian mechanism explaining how that system arose in one fell swoop. But as the number of indispensable well-fitted, mutually interacting,, non-arbitrarily individuated parts increases in number &amp; diversity, there is no possibility of the Darwinian mechanism achieving that system in one fell swoop. Page 287

Minimal Complexity and Function Given an IC system with numerous &amp; diverse parts in its core, the Darwinian mechanism must produce it gradually. But if the system needs to operate at a certain minimal level of function before it can be of any use to the organism &amp; if to achieve that level of function it requires a certain minimal level of complexity already possessed by the irreducible core, the Darwinian mechanism has no functional intermediates to exploit. Page 287


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,14:52   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,13:55)
"The Privileged Planet" makes the case that the UNIVERSE was intelligently designed for scientific discovery. Also that the Earth is not only a great platform to do so but that it also happens to harbor intelligent agencies that can actually do the scientific discovering.

So the universe was designed, then it wasn't, then it was but not the Earth itself, just humans and all other life on Earth was designed.

I would say you couldn't make yourself look like a bigger blustering fool if you tried but I know the depths of your scientific ignorance and stupidity Joke.   :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,14:54   

Quote (Henry J @ Sep. 13 2018,14:00)
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Sep. 13 2018,11:19)
ID has been falsified since IC structures were empirically observed to evolve through indirect means.

Wouldn't that only invalidate that one argument, rather than addressing the, er, "hypothesis"?

Ask Joke.  He's the one who said ID would be falsified if natural methods for producing IC systems were found, which they have.   :)

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 13 2018,15:01   

Quote (Joe G @ Sep. 13 2018,13:36)
I say the fact that it is a harmful parasite is due to Darwinian evolution acting on intelligently designed organisms.

There goes dumbass Joke flip flopping again.  Now he says Darwinian evolution can produce two co-ordinated mutations needed for anti-malarial drug resistance.  Never mind that's the exact opposite of what the clown argued the day before.   :D

Watching Joke contradict himself in back to back posts and make himself look like a clueless ass never gets old.   :)

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
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