Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::IDC Advocates Speak

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:00

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,12:40)

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 24 2009,12:18)

Louis: Before calling it quits The Hellacopters made a suitable soundtrack.

The Hellacopters - Same lame story

ETA: Language.

DAMN YOU GODS OF SWEDISH ROCK!!!!!! DAMN YOU!!!!!!

Still, I reckon the song I would have written would have been better and you can't prove otherwise so there! ;-)

Louis

An iron clad line of reasoning, I stand corrected and very much look forward to the awaiting gold records, world tours and inevitable implosion due to ~~fights over drugs and groupies~~ differences of opinion over wholly artistic decisions.

Any day now. Waterloo!

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

Richard Simons

Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:05

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,04:35)

On that subject, since the "claims-remain-the-same"* so often in IDCist arguments I'm thinking along the lines of Mark Isaak's Index to Creationist Claims but on placards. Every time little Casey Whiny Bollocks opens his gob and unfurls a turd onto the ears of his audience how about a segment of that audience, calmly, quietly, and oh so ever politely, lifts the relevant placard? These could be small (A4 size) so as not to interfere too greatly, but just enough to make the point. ten or so people quietly sat in the front row each holding up a placard briefly explaining the lie/fallacy being presented (title of placard would be large and easily legible). Leaflets could be produced which explained the common fallacies and gave references to more extensive works.

It would take a bit of setting up, and attendees at a few of Casey (or whoever's) lectures would need to get transcripts (or recordings for later transcriptions) so that the work could be distributed. IIRC that also won't fall foul of copyright (it's fair use as long as you translate from one medium to another for the purposes of criticism IIRC, IANAL).

Thoughts?

I, too, do not live in an area with rampant creationists being taken seriously, but I had similar thoughts. Sit near the front and, if something incorrect is said, just stand up and politely say 'Excuse me, but that is not correct.' This could quickly tail off to just putting your hand up each time, but I'm sure it would make the point to the rest of the audience and also be very disconcerting for a speaker - not something I'd consider fair against normal opponents but given the tactics of Gish, Luskin, etc . . .

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All sweeping statements are wrong.

Wesley R. Elsberry

Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:20

I think a placard with "That Was A Falsehood" would serve admirably. One would likely be able to flash it more often than saying the thing aloud before being ejected from the proceedings. Fumbling through a stack of different placards listing all the many and various common falsehoods told would be inefficient. This way, one is not disrupting the speaker in the usual sense, so it becomes an eloquent statement when the goons appear beside you to take you out the door.

Even better... a double-sided placard, with "That Was A Falsehood" on one side, and "Teach The Controversy" on the other might shame them slightly, and permit one to flash it a few more times. It might even take a bit longer for them to take offense if one consistently raises the "Teach The Controversy" side toward the speaker... he might think that you are IDC cheerleading. ETA: This assumes that you get a seat near the front of the audience.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on Feb. 24 2009,08:21

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:21

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 24 2009,05:17)

Jones didn't say no peer-reviewed papers of any sort for IDC.

Jones relied on Behe's sworn testimony:

�

Quote

[173]Q. And, in fact, there are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred, is that correct?

[174]A. That is correct, yes.

[175]Q. And it is, in fact, the case that in Darwin's Black Box, you didn't report any new data or original research?

[176]A. I did not do so, but I did generate an attempt at an explanation.

Here's what Jones said:

�

Quote

The evidence presented in this case demonstrates that ID is not supported by any peer-reviewed research, data or publications. Both Drs. Padian and Forrest testified that recent literature reviews of scientific and medical-electronic databases disclosed no studies supporting a biological concept of ID. ([193]17:42-43 (Padian); [194]11:32-33 (Forrest)). On cross-examination, Professor Behe admitted that: "There are no peer reviewed articles by anyone advocating for intelligent design supported by pertinent experiments or calculations which provide detailed rigorous accounts of how intelligent design of any biological system occurred." ([195]22:22-23 (Behe)). Additionally, Professor Behe conceded that there are no peer-reviewed papers supporting his claims that complex molecular systems, like the bacterial flagellum, the blood-clotting cascade, and the immune system, were intelligently designed. ([196]21:61-62 (complex molecular systems), [197]23:4-5 (immune system), and [198]22:124-25 (blood-clotting cascade) (Behe)). In that regard, there are no peer-reviewed articles supporting Professor Behe's argument that certain complex molecular structures are "irreducibly complex."^[199]17 ([200]21:62, [201]22:124-25 (Behe)). In addition to failing to produce papers in peer-reviewed journals, ID also features no scientific research or testing. ([202]28:114-15 (Fuller); [203]18:22-23, 105-06 (Behe)).

Jones wasn't looking for just any peer-reviewed paper by an IDC advocate; he was looking for peer-reviewed papers on IDC that made a positive case for IDC. The DI's own people testified that they didn't have any. It's a bit late for Casey to call them liars, and besides, Casey would be wrong. The Meyer 2004b paper is not about making a positive case for IDC, and neither are the rest of what he flashed on screen.

Holy Crap!!!!!!! fuck if those ID guys start out saying there is a positive case for ID then where in the hell is that going to lead tehm???? Yes Tehm!

DOWN A SLIPPERY SLOPE THAT's FRIKKIN' WHERE!

hell if a positive case = (YES EQUAL) to Darwinism is brought up then where does that leave ID

I'LL TELL YOU WHERE RIGHT NOW HOMO'S

ID will have to compete with the greatest test for lies ever invented by mankind AND STILL COME UP SMELLING LIKE ROSES.

CASEY please please please don't do this. You will end the game, the chase, the fun, the LULZ, the pure joy of rubbing your dick wad face in shit.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~ DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Richard Simons

Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:31

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 24 2009,08:20)

I think a placard with "That Was A Falsehood" would serve admirably. One would likely be able to flash it more often than saying the thing aloud before being ejected from the proceedings. Fumbling through a stack of different placards listing all the many and various common falsehoods told would be inefficient. This way, one is not disrupting the speaker in the usual sense, so it becomes an eloquent statement when the goons appear beside you to take you out the door.

Even better... a double-sided placard, with "That Was A Falsehood" on one side, and "Teach The Controversy" on the other might shame them slightly, and permit one to flash it a few more times. It might even take a bit longer for them to take offense if one consistently raises the "Teach The Controversy" side toward the speaker... he might think that you are IDC cheerleading. ETA: This assumes that you get a seat near the front of the audience.

Better still! I am almost regretting that I'm unlikely to get the chance to try it out.

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All sweeping statements are wrong.

Wesley R. Elsberry

Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:35

For larger type, a shorter message is called for... "That Was False" or just a great big "FALSE" might be even better.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:43

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 24 2009,08:35)

For larger type, a shorter message is called for... "That Was False" or just a great big "FALSE" might be even better.

In this time of vanishing resources and increasing expenses, don't we owe it to the world - and the kidz - to use less ink whrever possible?

I think that "LIE" is short, sweet, eco-friendly and true, and so should be used rather than "False".

My $.02

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

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Joined: May 2007

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:48

Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 24 2009,16:43)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 24 2009,08:35)

For larger type, a shorter message is called for... "That Was False" or just a great big "FALSE" might be even better.

In this time of vanishing resources and increasing expenses, don't we owe it to the world - and the kidz - to use less ink whrever possible?

I think that "LIE" is short, sweet, eco-friendly and true, and so should be used rather than "False".

My $.02

How about ?

CASEY YOU LYING SNIVELING SHIT!

same size paper and if anyone complains about the ink just say

...eh whatever

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~ DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Wesley R. Elsberry

Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,08:57

Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 24 2009,08:43)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 24 2009,08:35)

For larger type, a shorter message is called for... "That Was False" or just a great big "FALSE" might be even better.

In this time of vanishing resources and increasing expenses, don't we owe it to the world - and the kidz - to use less ink whrever possible?

I think that "LIE" is short, sweet, eco-friendly and true, and so should be used rather than "False".

My $.02

If you use "FALSE", then you aren't impugning the speaker's character, save the huffiness over pointing out ignorance. If you use "LIE", then you are likely to be ejected sooner. It depends on whether your goal is to inform the audience of untrue statements as they happen, or to get expelled as soon as possible. That will inform your choice of word.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

dnmlthr

Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,09:01

How about this:

"False" in big letters, followed by
"Correction available upon request"

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,09:11

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 24 2009,17:01)

How about this:

"False" in big letters, followed by
"Correction available upon request"

and on the other side have
Curious George slouching off to prison

THEOCRATS GO TO GITMO DO NOT COLLECT $200

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~ DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,09:14

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 24 2009,09:11)

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 24 2009,17:01)

How about this:

"False" in big letters, followed by
"Correction available upon request"

and on the other side have
Curious George slouching off to prison

THEOCRATS GO TO GITMO DO NOT COLLECT $200

He'll be Bicurious George by the time he gets out...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Posted: Feb. 24 2009,09:27

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 24 2009,17:14)

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 24 2009,09:11)

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 24 2009,17:01)

How about this:

"False" in big letters, followed by
"Correction available upon request"

and on the other side have
Curious George slouching off to prison

THEOCRATS GO TO GITMO DO NOT COLLECT $200

He'll be Bicurious George by the time he gets out...

Casey gave the whole of the DI a handjob and they all thought they had Stockholms syndrome.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~ DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

creeky belly

Posts: 205
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,10:33

Quote

How about this:

"False" in big letters, followed by
"Correction available upon request"

XKCD has something similar

Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,10:36

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 24 2009,14:20)

I think a placard with "That Was A Falsehood" would serve admirably. One would likely be able to flash it more often than saying the thing aloud before being ejected from the proceedings. Fumbling through a stack of different placards listing all the many and various common falsehoods told would be inefficient. This way, one is not disrupting the speaker in the usual sense, so it becomes an eloquent statement when the goons appear beside you to take you out the door.

Even better... a double-sided placard, with "That Was A Falsehood" on one side, and "Teach The Controversy" on the other might shame them slightly, and permit one to flash it a few more times. It might even take a bit longer for them to take offense if one consistently raises the "Teach The Controversy" side toward the speaker... he might think that you are IDC cheerleading. ETA: This assumes that you get a seat near the front of the audience.

A much, much better idea.

See now that's why you get all that big, big Darwinist money and Nazi gold.

I shall have my winged monkey butler (ahhh genetic engineering) make some placards up right away.

Louis

ETA: How about one of the electronic transfer placards used in sports matches and modified for the purpose. So instead of several placards, you have just one with the TO ICC programmed in, all you have to do is enter the correct code and it's number is displayed under the "falsehood" or what have you. At least that way one could claim it was an attempt at argument!

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Bye.

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,10:45

Quote (Richard Simons @ Feb. 24 2009,14:05)

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,04:35)

On that subject, since the "claims-remain-the-same"* so often in IDCist arguments I'm thinking along the lines of Mark Isaak's Index to Creationist Claims but on placards. Every time little Casey Whiny Bollocks opens his gob and unfurls a turd onto the ears of his audience how about a segment of that audience, calmly, quietly, and oh so ever politely, lifts the relevant placard? These could be small (A4 size) so as not to interfere too greatly, but just enough to make the point. ten or so people quietly sat in the front row each holding up a placard briefly explaining the lie/fallacy being presented (title of placard would be large and easily legible). Leaflets could be produced which explained the common fallacies and gave references to more extensive works.

It would take a bit of setting up, and attendees at a few of Casey (or whoever's) lectures would need to get transcripts (or recordings for later transcriptions) so that the work could be distributed. IIRC that also won't fall foul of copyright (it's fair use as long as you translate from one medium to another for the purposes of criticism IIRC, IANAL).

Thoughts?

I, too, do not live in an area with rampant creationists being taken seriously, but I had similar thoughts. Sit near the front and, if something incorrect is said, just stand up and politely say 'Excuse me, but that is not correct.' This could quickly tail off to just putting your hand up each time, but I'm sure it would make the point to the rest of the audience and also be very disconcerting for a speaker - not something I'd consider fair against normal opponents but given the tactics of Gish, Luskin, etc . . .

EXACTLY!

In civilised, rational, intellectual discourse about a series of ideas it would not only be unnecessary. Hell, in a decent discussion ridicule, mockery, derision etc are totally unnecessary.

Casey's whines fail to address the issue, civility is not just not using the word "fuck" or failing to mention he is a clueless, slimy little pissant. Granted those things ARE a part of a civil discussion, but so is acting honestly and in good faith which IDCists like Casey et al absolutely do not do.

Louis

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Bye.

Arden Chatfield

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,10:52

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,08:45)

Hell, in a decent discussion ridicule, mockery, derision etc are totally unnecessary.

Unless Louis is involved. Then they're mandatory.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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Posted: Feb. 24 2009,11:03

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 24 2009,16:52)

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,08:45)

Hell, in a decent discussion ridicule, mockery, derision etc are totally unnecessary.

Unless Louis is involved. Then they're mandatory.

Simply not true, as you know. Granted I have a low tolerance threshold for mendacity, but sorry, you're just wrong.

Louis

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Bye.

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Joined: May 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,11:40

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,10:36)

I shall have my winged monkey butler (ahhh genetic engineering) make some placards up right away.

Louis

You've managed to train Carlson ?

By golly, so you have. Kudos, sir. �

P.S. I shall have my revenge.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

carlsonjok

Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,11:47

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,11:40)

P.S. both of you are evil, and I shall have my revenge.

Hey you! Deadman! Get a room, wouldya!

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. �We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

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Posted: Feb. 24 2009,11:50

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 24 2009,17:47)

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,11:40)

P.S. both of you are evil, and I shall have my revenge.

Hey you! Deadman! Get a room, wouldya!

I admire your skills of Google, sir. I entered the terms "squirrel" and "fucking" into the search engine and ended up getting fired!*

Damn hypersensitive work environment.

Louis

*This is not true. My workplace, as with that of any good and inclusive employer, encourages self expression. Just not during work hours or in any manner that leaves things sticky. Deadman, you have been warned.

ETA: Although I will say this, Carlson. Your ability to find dubious pictures of squirrels at short notice is...."interesting". I'll leave it at that.

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Bye.

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Joined: May 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,11:52

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,11:50)

My workplace, as with that of any good and inclusive employer, encourages self expression.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,11:54

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,17:52)

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,11:50)

My workplace, as with that of any good and inclusive employer, encourages self expression.

Errors:

1) No tail.

2) Not that good looking.

Other than that, I'll give you a C. Well done, champ, well done. With suitable training you might manage simple tasks.

Louis

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Bye.

Arden Chatfield

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,12:11

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,09:54)

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,17:52)

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,11:50)

My workplace, as with that of any good and inclusive employer, encourages self expression.

Errors:

1) No tail.

2) Not that good looking.

3) Not enough body hair.

4) Not that well dressed.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,12:13

5) Needs a fez

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,12:14

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 24 2009,18:11)

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,09:54)

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,17:52)

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 24 2009,11:50)

My workplace, as with that of any good and inclusive employer, encourages self expression.

Errors:

1) No tail.

2) Not that good looking.

3) Not enough body hair.

4) Not that well dressed.

Both good points. You too get a C. That was almost witty of you. In fact, judging by your performance I'd say you were halfway there.

Louis

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Bye.

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Posted: Feb. 24 2009,12:17

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,18:13)

5) Needs a fez

FAIL!

Deadman's sexual fantasy, yesterday.

Louis

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Bye.

Richardthughes

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Feb. 24 2009,12:22

Quote (deadman_932 @ Feb. 24 2009,12:13)

5) Needs a fez

6) and roller-skates.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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