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Stephen Elliott Posts: 1776 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,17:28    Quote (csadams @ Sep. 14 2009,16:13) Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Sep. 14 2009,14:41) Cheers Louis, I went away from this site for a fair while due to being sick. Sick to fuckin death of creationist lying. Agreed.  There seems to come a point at which the anti-evolutionists' lies and quote-mines and serpentine syllogisms just saturate my soul and begins to suck it down into a black hole.  That (and the question of theodicy) form the acid which corrodes faith. 1)Sadly, the actions of some of those who call themselves Christians have caused 3 teenagers I know of to declare themselves atheist or agnostic.  Evolution had nothing to do with it, according to them!  Try as I might to persuade the kids that these extremists aren't representative of the rank-and-file, they're sickened at the mendacity and manipulation they see practiced by these so-called leaders of faith. 2)Even more tragically, I see first-hand the results of kids ignoring reality, when they think their bodies are immune to the laws of physics so they don't need to bother wearing their seatbelts.  Do they think that God will protect them from being ejected from the vehicle?  Did they ever think that maybe, just maybe, God might have been that still small voice in the seat belt designer's ear?... Hi, I am curious. 1) Why does that sadden you. But with 2) I think that is pretty normal. I can remember feeling that way. As a youth I felt "invulnerable". I don't think the same way now.

Texas Teach Posts: 2084 Joined: April 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,18:02    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 14 2009,06:27) Enough with the mea culpa's, Squirrel Boy! I for one Deadman am perfectly happy with what you did. We haven't had a creationist chum for a while here. Granted, new, exciting, less wilfully stupid and obstinate creationist chums are always preferred to old, dull, arse-quakingly reliant on quote mining, and stubbornly unintelligent creationist chums, but hey, when life gives you stupid fucking lemons, you make stupid fucking lemonade. Ah the Holy Grail of in the search for creationist chums.  Sadly, I believe it is as hard to find as working cold fusion, Bigfoot, cars that fly, and Dembski's honor.  But I guess we can dream... -------------- "Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr "I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

someotherguy Posts: 398 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,19:01    In order for this debate to have even the smallest hope of becoming a productive conversation, we're going to need to reach some sort of agreement on a working definition of Christianity, along with the minimum set of beliefs that one must hold to be legitimately considered a Christian.  Otherwise, this isn't going to work. -------------- Evolander in training

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,19:32    Quote (ppb @ Sep. 14 2009,13:34) Sorry Heddle, but your Honda Element is clearly incompatible with the Bible.  The Scriptures clearly state that the disciples were together in one Accord.  :) See here. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,19:35    Quote   Quote   Quote *For at least 45 mins. My very first POTW, and I get it with a very old and very lame joke.  Mom will be so proud! Given the amount of sleep Louis is getting, I thought it was pretty good.* * Which is exactly what Arden's mum said. Actually, Louis's wife hasn't been getting much sleep either, but that's mostly my fault. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Stanton Posts: 266 Joined: Jan. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,19:36    Quote (someotherguy @ Sep. 14 2009,19:01) In order for this debate to have even the smallest hope of becoming a productive conversation, we're going to need to reach some sort of agreement on a working definition of Christianity, along with the minimum set of beliefs that one must hold to be legitimately considered a Christian.  Otherwise, this isn't going to work. You mean, as in, a Christian being anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as being their (spiritual) Lord and Savior, the one who will bring him/her salvation?

someotherguy Posts: 398 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,19:41    Quote (Stanton @ Sep. 14 2009,19:36) Quote (someotherguy @ Sep. 14 2009,19:01) In order for this debate to have even the smallest hope of becoming a productive conversation, we're going to need to reach some sort of agreement on a working definition of Christianity, along with the minimum set of beliefs that one must hold to be legitimately considered a Christian.  Otherwise, this isn't going to work. You mean, as in, a Christian being anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as being their (spiritual) Lord and Savior, the one who will bring him/her salvation? Yeah, something like that.  Sort of what CS Lewis was trying to with Mere Christianity--pairing what it means to be a Christian down to a minimal set of tenets--except with, hopefully, less apologetics. ETA:  I realize what I'm suggesting is a rather difficult task (understatement!), I just think it's a necessary condition to be able to have this particular discussion. -------------- Evolander in training

Dan Posts: 77 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,20:02    Quote (someotherguy @ Sep. 14 2009,19:41)   Quote (Stanton @ Sep. 14 2009,19:36)     Quote (someotherguy @ Sep. 14 2009,19:01) In order for this debate to have even the smallest hope of becoming a productive conversation, we're going to need to reach some sort of agreement on a working definition of Christianity, along with the minimum set of beliefs that one must hold to be legitimately considered a Christian.  Otherwise, this isn't going to work. You mean, as in, a Christian being anyone who accepts Jesus Christ as being their (spiritual) Lord and Savior, the one who will bring him/her salvation? Yeah, something like that.  Sort of what CS Lewis was trying to with Mere Christianity--pairing what it means to be a Christian down to a minimal set of tenets--except with, hopefully, less apologetics. ETA:  I realize what I'm suggesting is a rather difficult task (understatement!), I just think it's a necessary condition to be able to have this particular discussion. A Christian is one who attempts to life his or her life according to St. Francis's Prayer:    Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;    where there is hatred, let me sow love;    where there is injury, pardon;    where there is doubt, faith;    where there is despair, hope;    where there is darkness, light;    and where there is sadness, joy. NOTE: Historically, this prayer was not written by St. Francis.  But that's irrelevant to the ideal it portrays.

nmgirl Posts: 92 Joined: Sep. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,20:31    I am new to PT and atbc and I want to say how glad I am to find you.  I have been involved in an ongoing thread about ID on a local site and have gotten very frustrated about trying to communicate with people like FL.  It feels really good to not be alone.   Now to this discussion:  FL's first assertion is that Evolution is not compatible with Christianity. Wrong.  I am a Christian, ie, I believe Jesus Christ is my personal savior.  I also believe in evolution. Do I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, NO. Do I believe that FL and his ilk have the right to judge if I am the RIGHT kind of christian, NO. A lot of the stuff you guys discuss I don't understand.  It's been more than 30 years since I studied geology and more than 20 since I stopped working in the field.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,20:53    The funny thing is that evangelicals like FL are so quick to tell all manner of Christians that unless they think the same as he thinks, they aren't 'real Christians', and yet, when they want to argue that America is an overwhelmingly 'Christian Nation', they're happy to include everyone who calls themselves a Christian, just to keep the percentage as high as possible. So they're inclusive when it's politically convenient, and exclusionary when that's politically convenient. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,21:00    finally tarden shows up with some sauce.  you been phoning them in for too long.  i hadn't considered that this makes FL's dishonesty even more patronizing. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

someotherguy Posts: 398 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,21:06    Quote (nmgirl @ Sep. 14 2009,20:31) I am new to PT and atbc and I want to say how glad I am to find you.  I have been involved in an ongoing thread about ID on a local site and have gotten very frustrated about trying to communicate with people like FL.  It feels really good to not be alone.   Now to this discussion:  FL's first assertion is that Evolution is not compatible with Christianity. Wrong.  I am a Christian, ie, I believe Jesus Christ is my personal savior.  I also believe in evolution. Do I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, NO. Do I believe that FL and his ilk have the right to judge if I am the RIGHT kind of christian, NO. A lot of the stuff you guys discuss I don't understand.  It's been more than 30 years since I studied geology and more than 20 since I stopped working in the field. Welcome!  And don't worry if you don't understand what we're talking about.  Half the things said here are inside jokes referencing things that happened on obscure websites several years ago.  The other half consists mostly of bathroom humor.   :D -------------- Evolander in training

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,21:39    Quote (someotherguy @ Sep. 14 2009,21:06) Quote (nmgirl @ Sep. 14 2009,20:31) I am new to PT and atbc and I want to say how glad I am to find you.  I have been involved in an ongoing thread about ID on a local site and have gotten very frustrated about trying to communicate with people like FL.  It feels really good to not be alone.   Now to this discussion:  FL's first assertion is that Evolution is not compatible with Christianity. Wrong.  I am a Christian, ie, I believe Jesus Christ is my personal savior.  I also believe in evolution. Do I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, NO. Do I believe that FL and his ilk have the right to judge if I am the RIGHT kind of christian, NO. A lot of the stuff you guys discuss I don't understand.  It's been more than 30 years since I studied geology and more than 20 since I stopped working in the field. Welcome!  And don't worry if you don't understand what we're talking about.  Half the things said here are inside jokes referencing things that happened on obscure websites several years ago.  The other half consists mostly of bathroom humor.   :D Ah... but the third half* might actually help you and be worthwhile, and we actually do have some pretty darned smart and experienced ID / Creo Warriors here.  So ask away, and welcome.** * Using ID Maths first advanced by New York Prof Y. Berra @ 1959. ** You DO like LOL Cats, and can use them to advance / win arguments right? -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

Timothy McDougald Posts: 1036 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,22:18    Quote (J-Dog @ Sep. 14 2009,21:39) Quote (someotherguy @ Sep. 14 2009,21:06) Quote (nmgirl @ Sep. 14 2009,20:31) I am new to PT and atbc and I want to say how glad I am to find you.  I have been involved in an ongoing thread about ID on a local site and have gotten very frustrated about trying to communicate with people like FL.  It feels really good to not be alone.   Now to this discussion:  FL's first assertion is that Evolution is not compatible with Christianity. Wrong.  I am a Christian, ie, I believe Jesus Christ is my personal savior.  I also believe in evolution. Do I believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible, NO. Do I believe that FL and his ilk have the right to judge if I am the RIGHT kind of christian, NO. A lot of the stuff you guys discuss I don't understand.  It's been more than 30 years since I studied geology and more than 20 since I stopped working in the field. Welcome!  And don't worry if you don't understand what we're talking about.  Half the things said here are inside jokes referencing things that happened on obscure websites several years ago.  The other half consists mostly of bathroom humor.   :D Ah... but the third half* might actually help you and be worthwhile, and we actually do have some pretty darned smart and experienced ID / Creo Warriors here.  So ask away, and welcome.** * Using ID Maths first advanced by New York Prof Y. Berra @ 1959. ** You DO like LOL Cats, and can use them to advance / win arguments right? Then there is the half where we are trying to figure out which one of us has a sock named Jerry and who should PM Erasmus about it... -------------- Church burning ebola boy FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me. PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,22:29    i'm waiting! FL, since you are avoiding your own thread, perhaps you will tell us how you know jerry? -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 14 2009,23:00    Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Sep. 14 2009,19:00) finally tarden shows up with some sauce.  you been phoning them in for too long.   Actually, it's just that I make a point of dumbing down my posts when you're around. I thought you'd find it helpful. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Dr.GH Posts: 2333 Joined: May 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,01:43    Quote (nmgirl @ Sep. 14 2009,18:31) Do I believe that FL and his ilk have the right to judge if I am the RIGHT kind of christian, NO. Howdy, nmgirl. You wrote, "I am a Christian, ie, I believe Jesus Christ is my personal savior." The thing that always gets me is the notion that most Christians have that 1) there is a universal need to be "saved" and that 2) salvation is trivial- just say "Sorry Jesus." They seem to have missed Matthew 7: 21.   "Not everyone who says to Me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. 22.   "Many will say to Me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23.   "And then I will declare to them, `I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.' Or as it is more clearly said, Luke 6 46.   "Why do you call Me, `Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? Lying for Jeebus aint the way to Heaven. Fl seems to have missed the message. -------------- "Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy." L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Keelyn Posts: 40 Joined: Feb. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,01:46    FL misses everything  :) -------------- This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli Never let the truth get in the way of a good story. -- Mark Twain

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,03:04    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 15 2009,01:35) Quote     Quote   Quote *For at least 45 mins. My very first POTW, and I get it with a very old and very lame joke.  Mom will be so proud! :D Given the amount of sleep Louis is getting, I thought it was pretty good.* * Which is exactly what Arden's mum said. Actually, Louis's wife hasn't been getting much sleep either, but that's mostly my fault. You're my son? I knew this reincarnation/possession thing was weird but.....wow! Do you think you could stop whining and shitting yourself, I'm trying to get some work done! Louis -------------- Bye.

KCdgw Posts: 376 Joined: Sep. 2002 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,05:05    Quote A Christian is one who attempts to life his or her life according to St. Francis's Prayer:   Lord, make me an instrument of Thy peace;   where there is hatred, let me sow love;   where there is injury, pardon;   where there is doubt, faith;   where there is despair, hope;   where there is darkness, light;   and where there is sadness, joy. Note how telling the truth isn't mentioned. KC -------------- Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,05:26    Quote Okay, I think I get it now.  There's a "FL debate thread" AND an "FL peanut gallery thread."  (Good grief!!) Well, I've already started posting on the peanut gallery thread, (and probably will do some more posting there too, btw!), but I will use this thread for the main focus and debate.   In this main debate thread, I will focus on civility and such.  In the peanut thread, I reserve the right to go freestyle and say inflammatory and impolite (but non-profane and not-too-insulting) statements on occasion. FL  (Floyd Lee, aka Mellotron) I don’t think I will bother with the “debate” on the FL thread. Theology takes far too much time and effort, and Christian literalism’s 2000 years history have set an incomparable precedent. Funny how many words Christians have spent on convincing the world of the bible’s truth, literal or not. I however expect to take a peek sometimes, and maybe even make a comment, but I think I’ll use the gallery only. But FL, I have a plea: Please stick to your “own” thread. I don’t see any reason for you to have some sort of sanctuary of profanity here in the gallery for you to offer “inflammatory and impolite” statements. The sort of statements that I presume soon would get you silenced on most creationist forums like ARN, Uncommon Descent, or Telic Thoughts. I hope you as a self-declared Christian understand why I find your wish to use the gallery in the way you have indicated a rather hypocritical behaviour. It has been my experience that creationists, i.e. Christian apologetics most often refuse to meet at fora like AtBC, or talk.origins. As expressed at TT by another Christian, Salvador Cordova: AtBC is a cesspool. Seems Christians are afraid of becoming contaminated. What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,09:49    Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,10:34    Christianity can be a defined in a number of ways too. I am a buddhist/christian/atheist. I see them all as compatible. I somehow think this is about biblical inerrancy. Is it? Otherwise, what is it about? -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,10:42    Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49) Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? Your information is grossly wrong. Wrong enough to border on libel, damn you! I shall not take such defamation lying down*, my Second will call upon you shortly. God's blood, such calumny cannot be easily borne etc. Louis *Unlike, I understand, all your male and female relatives and acquaintances, who take many things lying down with a willingness that skirts close to obscenity. -------------- Bye.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,10:55    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,08:42) Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49)   Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? Your information is grossly wrong. Wrong enough to border on libel, damn you! I shall not take such defamation lying down*, my Second will call upon you shortly. Yeah, can Louis and I switch places? I like the sound of 'glutton'. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,11:04    Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,10:42)   Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49)     Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? Your information is grossly wrong. Wrong enough to border on libel, damn you! I shall not take such defamation lying down*, my Second will call upon you shortly. God's blood, such calumny cannot be easily borne etc. Louis *Unlike, I understand, all your male and female relatives and acquaintances, who take many things lying down with a willingness that skirts close to obscenity. You misread. Jesus is the one being labeled as a glutton and drunkard. I assume you are not claiming to be Jesus--so the passage makes no statement regarding your degree  of inebriation--so your outrage is misplaced. It says taxpayers and sinners are claimed to be among his friends. In a Venn diagram sense, "taxpayers and sinners" is similar to "wombats and animals" but never the mind. -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

BWE Posts: 1902 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,11:27    Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 15 2009,09:04) Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,10:42)   Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49)     Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? Your information is grossly wrong. Wrong enough to border on libel, damn you! I shall not take such defamation lying down*, my Second will call upon you shortly. God's blood, such calumny cannot be easily borne etc. Louis *Unlike, I understand, all your male and female relatives and acquaintances, who take many things lying down with a willingness that skirts close to obscenity. You misread. Jesus is the one being labeled as a glutton and drunkard. I assume you are not claiming to be Jesus--so the passage makes no statement regarding your degree  of inebriation--so your outrage is misplaced. It says taxpayers and sinners are claimed to be among his friends. In a Venn diagram sense, "taxpayers and sinners" is similar to "wombats and animals" but never the mind. can I still be a drunkard and a glutton? -------------- Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered When wished on the morning star Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it Look what it's done so far The Daily Wingnut

deadman_932 Posts: 3094 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,11:34    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 15 2009,10:55)   Quote (Louis @ Sep. 15 2009,08:42)     Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 15 2009,15:49)       Quote (Quack @ Sep. 15 2009,05:26) What company this man kept: The Son of Man came eating and drinking and you said, 'Look, he is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.' Let's see...Louis, Arden, Carlson and 'Ras, respectively? Interesting. They've been around longer than I thought! I bet they were also from the People's Front of Judea, the bastards. Whoa whoa whoa WHOA! *I'm* not the drunkard? [snip interminable ranting] Yeah, can Louis and I switch places? I like the sound of 'glutton'.   Quote (BWE @ Sep. 15 2009,11:27) can I still be a drunkard and a glutton? ------------------------------------------------------------- Dear Sirs/Madams: Western civilization itself is in peril. Chaos and confusion would ensue if people were allowed to change casting willy-nilly. While some of you are accustomed to "switching positions" faster than a Whitehall hooker, if one is allowed, then everyone will want follow. "Oh, I don't like being Judas, can't I be Simon?" "If I'm Cartaphilus, does that mean I have to keep wandering even after the shooting is over? If so, I want to be Moses; at least his wandering ended at some point " Look, people, we all have our roles and we're just going to have to suck it up (See Louis' mum for notes on that ) and do our jobs, at least until we wrap or The Rapture -- whichever comes first. -------------- AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

Quack Posts: 1961 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,11:48    Quote (BWE @ Sep. 15 2009,10:34) Christianity can be a defined in a number of ways too. I am a buddhist/christian/atheist. I see them all as compatible. I somehow think this is about biblical inerrancy. Is it? Otherwise, what is it about? To me,  it is not just about inerrancy; it is also about sects, cults and denominations, and a plethora of interpretations. -------------- Rocks have no biology.               Robert Byers.

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Sep. 15 2009,12:28    To me the best working definition of Christian* is one who accepts the historic creeds, e.g., the Nicene creed. It says nothing about when or how or over how long a period God created, only that he did. It says nothing about the end times beyond the fact that Jesus will return to judge the living and the dead (which probably includes Louis.) Anyway, FWIW, that's how I define my circle of orthodoxy--and I believe its radius is fairly large. ----------- *Since the technical definition: one who is made presentable to God through the righteousness of Jesus is theologically correct and unambiguous, but of little value in a practical sense. ----------- EDIT: weird typo. -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

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