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  Topic: Joe G.'s Tardgasm, How long can it last?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,10:02   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 11 2012,15:03)
I DID THIS. LAVISH YOUR PRAISES UPON ME OR GIVE ME A CAMERA LENS.

I bow to your powers of poking the bear.

Though to be fair, I'd already annoyed it a bit with the whole definition-of-artificial idiocy.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,10:05   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ April 11 2012,17:11)
In fact, this time it's you and Robin.

Wait...he's been calling me names?! What a...

Hold on...wait a sec...That's right - I don't care about such things. Never mind. As you were...

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,10:11   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 12 2012,08:44)
7. Oleg begins to teach offer Joe basic Physics

10. Oleg continues to teach offer Joe Physics

My one quibble - teaching implies some reciprocation and learning on the part of some audience. Imho, you can lecture all you want to a wall, but you still aren't teaching it a darn thing.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,10:12   

Quote (fnxtr @ April 12 2012,08:41)
You'd think a cosmopolitan organization like NCSE would at least have umlauts.

I preemptively used simple vowels - maybe it was unnecessary.

So now we have
melt-down: 1
swearing at Rich and Oleg on Joe's blog: 1

To get a hattrick, we need a flounce.

BTW, couldn't the whole pantomime in the sandbox be mirrored for posterity?


Edit: Typo

Edited by Kattarina98 on April 12 2012,10:15

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,10:17   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ April 12 2012,10:12)
Quote (fnxtr @ April 12 2012,08:41)
You'd think a cosmopolitan organization like NCSE would at least have umlauts.

I preemptively used simple vowels - maybe it was unnecessary.

So now we have
melt-down: 1
swearing at Rich and Oleg on Joe's blog: 1

To get a hattrick, we need a flounce.

BTW, couldn't the whole pantomime in the sandbox be mirrored for posterity?


Edit: Typo

I'm asking for it to get it's own thread and I think Lizzie (bless her) has agreed.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,11:41   

Joe loves Oleg:  
Quote
The angels that fly out of your arse?

But should a devout Christian talk about angels when he comes out of the closet?

Edit: Grammatification

Edited by Kattarina98 on April 12 2012,11:43

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,11:55   

Best JoeG comment EVAR:
Quote
Thank you for making a mockery of Lizzie’s blog.

I wonder if you can die of projection.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,12:02   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ April 12 2012,10:12)
Quote (fnxtr @ April 12 2012,08:41)
You'd think a cosmopolitan organization like NCSE would at least have umlauts.

I preemptively used simple vowels - maybe it was unnecessary.

So now we have
melt-down: 1
swearing at Rich and Oleg on Joe's blog: 1

To get a hattrick, we need a flounce.

BTW, couldn't the whole pantomime in the sandbox be mirrored for posterity?


Edit: Typo

Joe flounces very, very quickly.  You have to look quick or you'll miss it.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,12:16   

Quote (JohnW @ April 12 2012,11:55)
Best JoeG comment EVAR:
 
Quote
Thank you for making a mockery of Lizzie’s blog.

I wonder if you can die of projection.

Apparently some can survive:  
Quote
And I have no intention of engaging your belligerence- unless of course you would care to meet and just get it over with- That’s right you are safe hiding in your mommy’s basement.


--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
utidjian



Posts: 185
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,12:35   

Quote (JohnW @ April 12 2012,11:55)
Best JoeG comment EVAR:
Quote
Thank you for making a mockery of Lizzie’s blog.

I wonder if you can die of projection.

Can you die from teh Joy of Joe?

--------------
Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,13:15   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 11 2012,15:03)
I DID THIS. LAVISH YOUR PRAISES UPON ME OR GIVE ME A CAMERA LENS.



Doesn't this refer to a bizarre quarrel between John Kwok and PZ Myers?

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,14:09   

Quote (Kattarina98 @ April 12 2012,13:15)
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 11 2012,15:03)
I DID THIS. LAVISH YOUR PRAISES UPON ME OR GIVE ME A CAMERA LENS.



Doesn't this refer to a bizarre quarrel between John Kwok and PZ Myers?



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,14:11   

Watch you squirm as he tries not to let on he's a YEC who thinks the world is 6000 years old.

Priceless.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,15:10   

The thread has turned into mud wrestling with a pig. The pig enjoys it, so he wins.

It was much more fun when it was still about physics.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,15:28   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 12 2012,15:10)
The thread has turned into mud wrestling with a pig. The pig enjoys it, so he wins.

It was much more fun when it was still about physics.

Hopefully the thread for orbital mechanics will be up soon.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Freddie



Posts: 371
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,15:31   

Oh noes, our planets is falling into teh sun!!!  Quick, angels,  to your stations ... clean up in aisle 3!!!



ETA: From this completely apropos site

--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 12 2012,15:52   

We should point Joe to this site, the owner and he would get on like a house on fire.

BTW, Joe has created a fall-back blog ... in case his current one gets closed for pr0n?



--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,07:48   

Joe demonstrates his awesome knowledge of orbital mechanics:
Quote

Joe: I understand orbital mechanics. And YOU cannot demonstrate the orbital mechanics of a universe with one star and one planet/ moon system.

me: No, you don’t. You don’t even know that a single planet can have a stable orbit around a star.

Joe: Wrong again, oleg. YOU can’t even keep the context straight. BTW I never said that a single planet cannot have a stable orbit around a star- never.

me: Yes, you did. You kept asking silly questions like this: "How does it stay away, oleg? Remember there is only that system in the entire universe."

Joe: Oleg- CONTEXT is everything- I was talking about a one star universe- one star with one planet/ moon system.

me: Yes, that’s precisely the system that is stable and does not require any support from outside.

Joe: So you say yet cannot demonstrate.

me: Of course I can. It was first demonstrated by Newton, who derived Kepler’s laws from Newtonian mechanics and the law of gravity. It has been textbook stuff for centuries. And you are blissfully unaware of it. Case closed.

Joe: No you can’t, Newton never dealt with a one star universe- you are a liar.

me: That is precisely what Newton did. He considered a single star with a single planet orbiting it. That is known as the Kepler problem in mechanics.

Joe: No, Newton did NOT deal with a ONE STAR UNIVERSE- a one star system, but NOT a ONE STAR UNIVERSE.

me: No, Joe, you are wrong. Newton considered a problem in which there was one star, one planet, and nothing else. Literally. It is a universe with one star and one planet. Go ahead, look it up.

Joe: He couldn’t have- how would such a system come into existence?

me: He did not address the question of its origin. It’s irrelevant. He considered the dynamics of such a system. It’s stable. Go ahead, click on the link: Kepler problem. It won’t bite you. :)

Joe: If he didn’t address the question of origin then he has nothing. Not only that but he was unaware of the fabric of space-time. And taht means he is irrelevant to this discussion.

LOL

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,08:02   

Quote (olegt @ April 13 2012,07:48)
Joe demonstrates his awesome knowledge of orbital mechanics:
Quote

Joe: I understand orbital mechanics. And YOU cannot demonstrate the orbital mechanics of a universe with one star and one planet/ moon system.

me: No, you don’t. You don’t even know that a single planet can have a stable orbit around a star.

Joe: Wrong again, oleg. YOU can’t even keep the context straight. BTW I never said that a single planet cannot have a stable orbit around a star- never.

me: Yes, you did. You kept asking silly questions like this: "How does it stay away, oleg? Remember there is only that system in the entire universe."

Joe: Oleg- CONTEXT is everything- I was talking about a one star universe- one star with one planet/ moon system.

me: Yes, that’s precisely the system that is stable and does not require any support from outside.

Joe: So you say yet cannot demonstrate.

me: Of course I can. It was first demonstrated by Newton, who derived Kepler’s laws from Newtonian mechanics and the law of gravity. It has been textbook stuff for centuries. And you are blissfully unaware of it. Case closed.

Joe: No you can’t, Newton never dealt with a one star universe- you are a liar.

me: That is precisely what Newton did. He considered a single star with a single planet orbiting it. That is known as the Kepler problem in mechanics.

Joe: No, Newton did NOT deal with a ONE STAR UNIVERSE- a one star system, but NOT a ONE STAR UNIVERSE.

LOL

GO ahead, ask Joe to determine the answer to an 8 body orbit question.  Watch him RUN away

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 5287
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,08:20   

Joe continues to bring the industrial strength stupid:

 
Quote
Joe:  If the earth was the sun the moon would fall into it


:p  :p  :p

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"
"If it required a mind, planning and design, it isn't materialistic."
"Jews and Christians are Muslims."

- Joke "Sharon" Gallien, world's dumbest YEC.

  
Robin



Posts: 1431
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,08:33   

Joe is not have a good morning. Seems he's been put into moderation again:

Quote
Joe: No Lizzie- I will not sit around and be attacked by a bunch of rabid evoTARDs.

Joe: If you can’t keep your dogs in check perhaps you should just close the blog.

Lizzie: Joe, I try to move the most egregiously rule-violating posts, but I have been busy this week. However, the vast majority of those posts are yours. If you don’t want to post here, that is fine, but if you do, and I can’t rely on you to keep mostly to the site rules, then I will keep you in moderation. I will always post your comments, if not always in the thread to which they were posted, and it is not my intention to ban anyone.

Joe: Hi Lizzie-

You can take your moderation and shove it up your ass.


Oh boy...

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,08:33   

Quote (OgreMkV @ April 13 2012,16:02)
Quote (olegt @ April 13 2012,07:48)
Joe demonstrates his awesome knowledge of orbital mechanics:
 
Quote

Joe: I understand orbital mechanics. And YOU cannot demonstrate the orbital mechanics of a universe with one star and one planet/ moon system.

me: No, you don’t. You don’t even know that a single planet can have a stable orbit around a star.

Joe: Wrong again, oleg. YOU can’t even keep the context straight. BTW I never said that a single planet cannot have a stable orbit around a star- never.

me: Yes, you did. You kept asking silly questions like this: "How does it stay away, oleg? Remember there is only that system in the entire universe."

Joe: Oleg- CONTEXT is everything- I was talking about a one star universe- one star with one planet/ moon system.

me: Yes, that’s precisely the system that is stable and does not require any support from outside.

Joe: So you say yet cannot demonstrate.

me: Of course I can. It was first demonstrated by Newton, who derived Kepler’s laws from Newtonian mechanics and the law of gravity. It has been textbook stuff for centuries. And you are blissfully unaware of it. Case closed.

Joe: No you can’t, Newton never dealt with a one star universe- you are a liar.

me: That is precisely what Newton did. He considered a single star with a single planet orbiting it. That is known as the Kepler problem in mechanics.

Joe: No, Newton did NOT deal with a ONE STAR UNIVERSE- a one star system, but NOT a ONE STAR UNIVERSE.

LOL

GO ahead, ask Joe to determine the answer to an 8 body orbit question.  Watch him RUN away

I'm sure Joe can remember the time when he at his 8th Birthday his Mom organised a short bus with his 8 friends in pajamas who pretended they were plants.....erm planets.

There was Joeseph who pretended to be planet Elvis, Jo who pretended to be planet Face like a Slapped Arse, Josephene who pretended to be planet Uranus, Giuseppe
who sold drugs in planet Napoli but star gazed, Joe who was a singer at planet Woodstock......need I go on?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Woodbine



Posts: 1218
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,09:25   

Quote (olegt @ April 13 2012,13:48)
Joe demonstrates his awesome knowledge of orbital mechanics:
   
Quote

Joe: I understand orbital mechanics. And YOU cannot demonstrate the orbital mechanics of a universe with one star and one planet/ moon system.

me: No, you don’t. You don’t even know that a single planet can have a stable orbit around a star.

Joe: Wrong again, oleg. YOU can’t even keep the context straight. BTW I never said that a single planet cannot have a stable orbit around a star- never.

me: Yes, you did. You kept asking silly questions like this: "How does it stay away, oleg? Remember there is only that system in the entire universe."

Joe: Oleg- CONTEXT is everything- I was talking about a one star universe- one star with one planet/ moon system.

me: Yes, that’s precisely the system that is stable and does not require any support from outside.

Joe: So you say yet cannot demonstrate.

me: Of course I can. It was first demonstrated by Newton, who derived Kepler’s laws from Newtonian mechanics and the law of gravity. It has been textbook stuff for centuries. And you are blissfully unaware of it. Case closed.

Joe: No you can’t, Newton never dealt with a one star universe- you are a liar.

me: That is precisely what Newton did. He considered a single star with a single planet orbiting it. That is known as the Kepler problem in mechanics.

Joe: No, Newton did NOT deal with a ONE STAR UNIVERSE- a one star system, but NOT a ONE STAR UNIVERSE.

me: No, Joe, you are wrong. Newton considered a problem in which there was one star, one planet, and nothing else. Literally. It is a universe with one star and one planet. Go ahead, look it up.

Joe: He couldn’t have- how would such a system come into existence?

me: He did not address the question of its origin. It’s irrelevant. He considered the dynamics of such a system. It’s stable. Go ahead, click on the link: Kepler problem. It won’t bite you. :)

Joe: If he didn’t address the question of origin then he has nothing. Not only that but he was unaware of the fabric of space-time. And taht means he is irrelevant to this discussion.

LOL

:D

That is quality, quality TARD.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,09:31   

So far I'm 17/20 happy with his meltdown.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,09:57   

Quote
Hi Lizzie-

You can take your moderation and shove it up your ass.

Seya Joe who does not allow a single unmoderated post on *his* site...

Edited by oldmanintheskydidntdoit on April 13 2012,09:57

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1267
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,10:03   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ April 13 2012,09:57)
Quote
Hi Lizzie-

You can take your moderation and shove it up your ass.

Seya Joe who does not allow a single unmoderated post on *his* site...

Was that the beginning of a flounce?

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,12:00   

Joe has retreated to the fortress of tarditude to lick his wounds:

Quote
3

JoeApril 13, 2012 at 9:07 am



It’s just you- the number of comments is irrelevant and Liddle et al didn’t add anything.

I like the new UD- we get to read the posts without having to deal with any nonsense.


Nonsense = facts.


Edited.

Edited by Richardthughes on April 13 2012,12:00

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,13:02   

Quote (olegt @ April 13 2012,05:48)
Joe demonstrates his awesome knowledge of orbital mechanics:
   
Quote

Joe: I understand orbital mechanics. And YOU cannot demonstrate the orbital mechanics of a universe with one star and one planet/ moon system.

me: No, you don’t. You don’t even know that a single planet can have a stable orbit around a star.

Joe: Wrong again, oleg. YOU can’t even keep the context straight. BTW I never said that a single planet cannot have a stable orbit around a star- never.

me: Yes, you did. You kept asking silly questions like this: "How does it stay away, oleg? Remember there is only that system in the entire universe."

Joe: Oleg- CONTEXT is everything- I was talking about a one star universe- one star with one planet/ moon system.

me: Yes, that’s precisely the system that is stable and does not require any support from outside.

Joe: So you say yet cannot demonstrate.

me: Of course I can. It was first demonstrated by Newton, who derived Kepler’s laws from Newtonian mechanics and the law of gravity. It has been textbook stuff for centuries. And you are blissfully unaware of it. Case closed.

Joe: No you can’t, Newton never dealt with a one star universe- you are a liar.

me: That is precisely what Newton did. He considered a single star with a single planet orbiting it. That is known as the Kepler problem in mechanics.

Joe: No, Newton did NOT deal with a ONE STAR UNIVERSE- a one star system, but NOT a ONE STAR UNIVERSE.

me: No, Joe, you are wrong. Newton considered a problem in which there was one star, one planet, and nothing else. Literally. It is a universe with one star and one planet. Go ahead, look it up.

Joe: He couldn’t have- how would such a system come into existence?

me: He did not address the question of its origin. It’s irrelevant. He considered the dynamics of such a system. It’s stable. Go ahead, click on the link: Kepler problem. It won’t bite you. :)

Joe: If he didn’t address the question of origin then he has nothing. Not only that but he was unaware of the fabric of space-time. And taht means he is irrelevant to this discussion.

LOL

Hahahahaha!

So if Newton didn't discuss the origin of the planet, its colour, or whether it has caek, he couldn't determine its motion.  Brilliant.

Joe:  Research scientist.  All kinds of floors.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,13:12   

Joe has a little cry:

Quote
Liz,

I really do not care about posting here. But here are a bunch of evos who are either clueless or lying. Not only that not one can ante-up and support their position.

Gil left, William Murray hasn’t been around. SCheeseman hasn’t been around. Robert just showed up and I am sure that won’t last.

So hey I feel more than confident that I could make my case to an open-minded panel that it is the evos who are guilty of provoking and also guilty of not having an open and honest discussion.


(that's still in moderation right now)

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 13 2012,13:21   

Support "their" position?

It really doesn't occur to him that they're just recapping the consensus position of science in general?

Which means he isn't arguing against something they thought up; he's arguing that scientists have as a group (a huge number of them, for many decades), missed something obvious enough for a layperson to see.

Or am I missing something?

Henry

  
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