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improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,15:47   

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,15:58   

Genetic determinism vs. plasticity, some basics for SS:
http://www.galenicom.com/en/medline/article/15817441
Read the abstract (not sure if you can access the full text) and see how scientists distinguish between a phenotype triggered by an environmental cause, and a phenotype that has a genetic basis.

This is just an instance among thousands. Mendelian genetics... discovered more than 150 years ago. You missed the boat, SS.

  
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,16:01   

...also the article did not define "spine".  Are we to assume that this is a spine similar to those of humans???...or is this some chemical physiological reaction to a predator???

Also, you are mis-using Non-physical...which is my point.  You using in a way that make imply something mystical or Godly....which is not the case.

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,16:05   

It's a daphnia, not a flea!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphnia
The common name is "water flea."

I looked at the paper I believe our stuporsquirt is on about, and I found it interesting that it's written entirely from a Darwinian perspective: the authors don't seem to feel they've uncovered any weird Lamarckian mechanism, stuporsquirt. Why do you? Are you more qualified than they to interpret their results, or are you talking out of an orifice other than your mouth?

After a little checking on my lunch break, it turns out that the phenomenon, called "inducible defenses," has been observed in many different lineages (although, not, to my knowledge, fleas). There's a book on the subject, which is reviewed here
Oh, and here's the paper

Why don't you learn something, squirt?

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,16:24   

Quote (C.J.O'Brien @ Sep. 20 2007,22:05)
It's a daphnia, not a flea!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphnia
The common name is "water flea."

I looked at the paper I believe our stuporsquirt is on about, and I found it interesting that it's written entirely from a Darwinian perspective: the authors don't seem to feel they've uncovered any weird Lamarckian mechanism, stuporsquirt. Why do you? Are you more qualified than they to interpret their results, or are you talking out of an orifice other than your mouth?

After a little checking on my lunch break, it turns out that the phenomenon, called "inducible defenses," has been observed in many different lineages (although, not, to my knowledge, fleas). There's a book on the subject, which is reviewed here
Oh, and here's the paper

Why don't you learn something, squirt?

[supersport]Can't prove it's the genes! Can't prove it's the genes!

[/supersport]

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:01   

Quote (improvius @ Sep. 20 2007,15:47)
 
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

You're not done yet.....what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:03   

Quote (C.J.O'Brien @ Sep. 20 2007,16:05)
It's a daphnia, not a flea!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daphnia
The common name is "water flea."

I looked at the paper I believe our stuporsquirt is on about, and I found it interesting that it's written entirely from a Darwinian perspective: the authors don't seem to feel they've uncovered any weird Lamarckian mechanism, stuporsquirt. Why do you? Are you more qualified than they to interpret their results, or are you talking out of an orifice other than your mouth?

After a little checking on my lunch break, it turns out that the phenomenon, called "inducible defenses," has been observed in many different lineages (although, not, to my knowledge, fleas). There's a book on the subject, which is reviewed here
Oh, and here's the paper

Why don't you learn something, squirt?

I don't care what you call it or what other people think.  The reality is these spines did not form by way of natural selection.....they did not form randomly...they did not form by tiny changes in nucleotides...they did not change because of mutations....they did not change gradually over time.  For this, you can eliminate a darwinian explanation.

  
BWE



Posts: 1901
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:06   

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,17:01)
Quote (improvius @ Sep. 20 2007,15:47)
 
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

You're not done yet.....what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

Quetzalcoatl?

That's my guess.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:13   

Quote
I don't care what you call it or what other people think.  The reality is these spines did not form by way of natural selection.....they did not form randomly...they did not form by tiny changes in nucleotides...they did not change because of mutations....they did not change gradually over time.  For this, you can eliminate a darwinian explanation.

Going for a world record in assertion without substantiation? Keep it up. Stay hydrated.

But you may have noticed that the authors of the paper clearly do not agree with your analysis. Why is that, do you think?
And, why, if they got the conclusion wrong, according to you, would you trust anything else in the paper?

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2165
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:26   

You guys that say, "Yo, I can quit anytime"  and "I'm not a creatotrad junckie, I only reply recreationally" are liars.

Face it, you are all strung out.  With UD in self destruct mode, your pathetic need for the C-tard drives you to reply to one of the sickest tard pushers on the entertubes.

I'll stick with beer.

Edited by Dr.GH on Sep. 20 2007,15:26

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
stevestory



Posts: 10930
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:33   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Sep. 20 2007,18:26)
I'll stick with beer.

Hell yes.

   
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,17:33   

Quote
I'll stick with beer.

You say that like they're mutually exclusive.

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,18:45   

SS,

Are these real spines???...composed of vertebrae, spinal col????....or are these just "spine" like.

Huge difference.

Oh, and make mine a Capt.N'DietPepsi....

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,19:02   

SS, I stopped reading around pg 15 or so because it's evident you don't know what you're talking about.  I propose we lock this thread now so no more time is wasted.

To try to push you in the right direction, though, consider this:

Natural selection does not exist as a physical process.  NS is nothing more than a description of life as we know it.  There is no creative power to NS.  Animals are born, they live, they compete and they die, period.  Those that "live" the best propagate more.  It's just that simple.  Traits are not selected for except in our retrospective observations.  We can not debate you about NS because 1) you don't understand it and, 2) accepting your premise would mean denying observable reality.  This is tiresome and you give thinking religious people a bad name.

With that, I repeat that this thread is worthy of locking.  Any seconds?

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2165
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,19:09   

Quote (skeptic @ Sep. 20 2007,17:02)
With that, I repeat that this thread is worthy of locking.  Any seconds?

I can't agree here.  StupidSplurt is an excellent argument aginst creationism for anyone with the wit to follow references and to actually read them.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,19:13   

I'm not so sure he's actually even articulated a valid creationist argument.  No pun intended.

  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,19:42   

Quote (skeptic @ Sep. 20 2007,19:02)
SS, I stopped reading around pg 15 or so because it's evident you don't know what you're talking about.  I propose we lock this thread now so no more time is wasted.

To try to push you in the right direction, though, consider this:

Natural selection does not exist as a physical process.  NS is nothing more than a description of life as we know it.  There is no creative power to NS.  Animals are born, they live, they compete and they die, period.  Those that "live" the best propagate more.  It's just that simple.  Traits are not selected for except in our retrospective observations.  We can not debate you about NS because 1) you don't understand it and, 2) accepting your premise would mean denying observable reality.  This is tiresome and you give thinking religious people a bad name.

With that, I repeat that this thread is worthy of locking.  Any seconds?

of course you want to lock the thread....because that's what darwinists do when they're pinned up against a wall....they're not able to debate the truth so their next best weapon is banning or silencing it.   I've asked this forum repeatedly for examples of either natural selection creating something or mutations creating something -- neither have been answered...and that's because both are either degenerative or conservative mechanisms and neither are able to create anything new or more complex.

Keep trying to get the thread locked -- it's about all you've got left -- You're a great Darwinist.  Keep it up.

  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,19:42   

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,17:01)
Quote (improvius @ Sep. 20 2007,15:47)
 
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

You're not done yet.....what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

no answer.....again.

  
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,20:12   

LOL, you don't know who you're talking to young man.  Do your homework.

  
fusilier



Posts: 250
Joined: Feb. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,20:49   

Quote (skeptic @ Sep. 20 2007,20:12)
LOL, you don't know who you're talking to young man.  Do your homework.

SS doesn't give a rat's ass about anything.  Calling him a lying bastard is an insult to mill files the world over.


fusilier
James 2:24

--------------
fusilier
James 2:24

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,20:53   

Quote (fusilier @ Sep. 20 2007,20:49)
Quote (skeptic @ Sep. 20 2007,20:12)
LOL, you don't know who you're talking to young man.  Do your homework.

SS doesn't give a rat's ass about anything.  Calling him a lying bastard is an insult to mill files the world over.


fusilier
James 2:24

Incidentally, fusilier, did you see this?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,21:03   

Quote (skeptic @ Sep. 20 2007,21:12)
LOL, you don't know who you're talking to young man.  Do your homework.

Relative to SS you're a hard-nosed materialist, and an uncompromising eliminativist vis consciousness and mind, Skept.

Now there's a turn we weren't expecting.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,21:39   

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,17:30)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 20 2007,09:29)
 
Quote
CARM's SS is a troll, pure and simple.  He told me privately that he  doesn't believe a word he posts, that it's all entertainment


This true, Supersport?

lie....make that person (whoever it was) present proof of such.   I will say I do post for entertainment value sometimes...and sometimes I say things in goofy ways just to get a rise out of people, but I do believe what I say.

What SnuperSlurp believes is that by debating intelligent people over nonsense will somehow exercise his most underused organ.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,21:49   

Bill, funny how relative some things are, isn't it.  :D

  
qetzal



Posts: 311
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,23:12   

Quote (BWE @ Sep. 20 2007,17:06)
 
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,17:01)
   
Quote (improvius @ Sep. 20 2007,15:47)
     
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

You're not done yet.....what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

Quetzalcoatl?

That's my guess.

Nope. Weren't me.

We're talking water fleas, right? Could've been Neptune (or Poseidon or whatever he's calling himself these days).

  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,23:15   

This board is sooooooooooooo:

http://bushwhacked.net/bits/boring.jpg

and instead of encountering a group of people who care to debate the issues, all I get is:

http://eatwild.com/IMAGES/preening_chickens_lg.jpg

so I'll ask again:

what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2007,23:46   

Whats your explanation for the spine dickwad.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
jeannot



Posts: 1201
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 21 2007,00:38   

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,19:42)
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,17:01)
Quote (improvius @ Sep. 20 2007,15:47)
   
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

You're not done yet.....what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

no answer.....again.

You think that water fleas are don't detect predator via natural processes?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11110
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 21 2007,00:51   

Quote (jeannot @ Sep. 21 2007,00:38)
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,19:42)
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,17:01)
 
Quote (improvius @ Sep. 20 2007,15:47)
   
Quote (supersport @ Sep. 20 2007,16:20)
from where did the spine come from?  What was the cause of the emergence of the spine?

It's a chemical reaction to the predator.  You'd have learned this if you spent 10 minutes on Google.

You're not done yet.....what released these chemicals...and why...what signal called for their release??

no answer.....again.

You think that water fleas are don't detect predator via natural processes?

How did SS detect this forum?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 21 2007,03:21   

I have a question. Since genes don't pass anything down according to you supes, does DNA actually do anything?

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
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