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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,13:26   

The IDiots are like timid puppies. To get them out to play you have to have everything exactly right.

They often talk about getting a "fair reading" or a "sympathetic reception".  That's because if you call them on their BS as soon as it's obvious it's BS they clam up.

So if what it takes to pin these bastards down is to hold off on the truth (or the mockery) for a little while, so be it.

I mean, for fucks sake, it does not get much better then this quote and formal unflinching professionalism is what it took to get it.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs....pm.html
Quote
Q And using your definition, intelligent design is a scientific theory, correct?

A Yes.

Q Under that same definition astrology is a scientific theory under your definition, correct?

A Under my definition, a scientific theory is a proposed explanation which focuses or points to physical, observable data and logical inferences. There are many things throughout the history of science which we now think to be incorrect which nonetheless would fit that -- which would fit that definition. Yes, astrology is in fact one, and so is the ether theory of the propagation of light, and many other -- many other theories as well.

Q The ether theory of light has been discarded, correct?

A That is correct.

Q But you are clear, under your definition, the definition that sweeps in intelligent design, astrology is also a scientific theory, correct?

A Yes, that's correct. And let me explain under my definition of the word "theory," it is -- a sense of the word "theory" does not include the theory being true, it means a proposition based on physical evidence to explain some facts by logical inferences. There have been many theories throughout the history of science which looked good at the time which further progress has shown to be incorrect. Nonetheless, we can't go back and say that because they were incorrect they were not theories. So many many things that we now realized to be incorrect, incorrect theories, are nonetheless theories.

Q Has there ever been a time when astrology has been accepted as a correct or valid scientific theory, Professor Behe?

A Well, I am not a historian of science. And certainly nobody -- well, not nobody, but certainly the educated community has not accepted astrology as a science for a long long time. But if you go back, you know, Middle Ages and before that, when people were struggling to describe the natural world, some people might indeed think that it is not a priori -- a priori ruled out that what we -- that motions in the earth could affect things on the earth, or motions in the sky could affect things on the earth.

Q And just to be clear, why don't we pull up the definition of astrology from Merriam-Webster.

MR. ROTHSCHILD: If you would highlight that.

BY MR. ROTHSCHILD:

Q And archaically it was astronomy; right, that's what it says there?

A Yes.

Q And now the term is used, "The divination of the supposed influences of the stars and planets on human affairs and terrestrial events by their positions and aspects."

That's the scientific theory of astrology?

A That's what it says right there, but let me direct your attention to the archaic definition, because the archaic definition is the one which was in effect when astrology was actually thought to perhaps describe real events, at least by the educated community.

Astrology -- I think astronomy began in, and things like astrology, and the history of science is replete with ideas that we now think to be wrong headed, nonetheless giving way to better ways or more accurate ways of describing the world.

And simply because an idea is old, and simply because in our time we see it to be foolish, does not mean when it was being discussed as a live possibility, that it was not actually a real scientific theory.

Q I didn't take your deposition in the 1500s, correct?

A I'm sorry?

Q I did not take your deposition in the 1500s, correct?

A It seems like that.

Q Okay. It seems like that since we started yesterday. But could you turn to page 132 of your deposition?

A Yes.

Q And if you could turn to the bottom of the page 132, to line 23.

A I'm sorry, could you repeat that?

Q Page 132, line 23.

A Yes.

Q And I asked you, "Is astrology a theory under that definition?" And you answered, "Is astrology? It could be, yes." Right?

A That's correct.

Q Not, it used to be, right?

A Well, that's what I was thinking. I was thinking of astrology when it was first proposed. I'm not thinking of tarot cards and little mind readers and so on that you might see along the highway. I was thinking of it in its historical sense.

Q I couldn't be a mind reader either.

A I'm sorry?

Q I couldn't be a mind reader either, correct?

A Yes, yes, but I'm sure it would be useful.

Q It would make this exchange go much more quickly.


Only when all the tard is mined can we decide who had the best tookkit!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Patrick



Posts: 634
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,14:02   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 19 2012,14:15)
If anything or anyone is stinky shit, it's gildo and the rest of the IDiots and their drumbeat repetitive rhetorical talking points, red herrings, and strawmen, laced with oil of incendiary ad hominems that are lit on fire to cloud and poison the atmosphere and all that jazz, AND their lies and false accusations. Where's the "good faith" in any or all of that? Where's the good faith in the blocking of comments/commenters and in the bannings at UD, and in the support those blockings and bannings get from the IDiot gang at UD? Where's the good faith in the constant malicious attacks on atheists/evolutionary materialists/methodological naturalists/scientists/science supporters/evolutionists/"Darwinists"/theistic evolutionists, and many others, a lot of whom are regularly mentioned by name?

I am fed up with the lies, false accusations, and other 'bad faith' shit the IDiots constantly spew.

My visceral reaction is identical to yours, but you're asking the wrong question.  The way I read it, the rules of Lizzie's blog are focused on how people should behave, not on how people do behave.

Osho made a similar point:
 
Quote
Someone has insulted you — anger suddenly erupts, you are feverish. Anger is flowing toward the person who has insulted you. Now you will project this whole anger onto him. He has not done anything. If he has insulted you, what has he done? He has just pricked you, he has helped your anger to arise — but the anger is yours. If he goes to Buddha and insults him, he will not be able to create any anger in him. Or if he goes to Jesus, Jesus will give him the other cheek. Or if he goes to Bodhidharma, he will roar with laughter. So it depends.

The other is not the source, the source is always within you. The other is hitting the source, but if there is no anger within you it cannot come out. If you hit a buddha, only compassion will come out because only compassion is there. Anger will not come out because anger is not there.

If you throw a bucket into a dry well, nothing comes out. In a water-filled well, you throw a bucket and water comes out, but the water is from the well. The bucket only helps to bring it out. So one who is insulting you is just throwing a bucket in you, and then the bucket will come out filled with the anger, hate, or fire that was within you.

You are the source, remember.

For this technique, remember that you are the source of everything that you go on projecting onto others. And whenever there is a mood against or for, immediately move within and go to the source from where this hate is coming.

Remain centered there; do not move to the object. Someone has given you a chance to be aware of your own anger — thank him immediately and forget him. Close your eyes, move within, and now look at the source from where this love or anger is coming.

We should treat others in good faith not because they deserve it but because we should be the type of people who act in good faith.

And before you ask, yes, I suck at it.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,14:35   

Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 19 2012,14:02)

Well, in case it's not clear, I don't think Woodbine is "stinky" not even his post.

I do tend to bend over backwards to give air-time to opinions opposed to mine, rather than those that agree with them, and I acknowledge that fault.

So I apologise to anyone who feels hard-done-by.  I will try to be more even-handed.

But my goal is simply to try to keep, as much as possible, to the substance of the argument, and not be sidetracked by discussion of motivation, and if that means that some arguments are exposed as contentless, then that's a useful result IMO.

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,15:39   

An example of how easy it is to offend:

 
Quote
“I’d want to see the actual reasoning, and the actual probability calculations that you think make the chance remote. Not just liquid nasal ejecta :) ”


was quoted by butifnot on UD as example of me insulting Gil, who had said, in his TSZ post:

 
Quote
When I was growing up and learning mathematics my dad (a professor of chemical physics) admonished me to always check my calculations to see if they made sense on the surface (in my engineering department we call this “using the beverage out the nose” test).


That's why I'm trying to keep the place squeaky clean.

Edited by Febble on Feb. 19 2012,15:59

  
Henry J



Posts: 5106
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,15:54   

Can an unintelligible statement simultaneously exist and not exist?

  
socle



Posts: 322
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,16:01   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 19 2012,15:39)
An example of how easy it is to offend:

   
Quote
“I’d want to see the actual reasoning, and the actual probability calculations that you think make the chance remote. Not just liquid nasal ejecta :) ”


was quoted by butifnot on UD as example of me insulting Gil, who had said, in his TSZ post:

   
Quote
When I was growing up and learning mathematics my dad (a professor of chemical physics) admonished me to always check my calculations to see if they made sense on the surface (in my engineering department we call this “using the beverage out the nose” test).


That's why I'm trying to keep the place squeaky clean.

by butifnot on UD

Wow.  

I have to admit reading Gil's threads reminds me of those epic threads back in the day of IIDB, with lee_merrill employing similar tactics (lots of assertions, no arguments, ignoring relevant questions, etc).

  
Henry J



Posts: 5106
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,16:06   

Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 19 2012,10:05)
From /r/Atheism on Reddit today:


Justice is the blind watchmaker? :p

  
Febble



Posts: 310
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,16:15   

[quote=socle,Feb. 19 2012,16:01][/quote]
Just to make it clear, I don't think Gil was offended.

It's just that it doesn't take much for people to take offense, even on other people's behalf.

And it does make for awfully boring discussion.

ETA when it ends up being all about tone and not about substance.

Edited by Febble on Feb. 19 2012,16:16

  
BWE



Posts: 1901
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,17:30   

That is an equal opportunity blind spot isnt it? :)

I am still amazed at pz myers and his crew's response to criticism of his position regarding gelatoguy and the gelatocaust.

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
keiths



Posts: 2090
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,18:36   

After quoting Isaiah in the OP, kairosfocus informs Maus that Islam is off-topic for UD:
Quote
I’ll say but little on Islam other than to point that a lot of its pivot is historical and on its founder and era, so the evaluation of its truth claims will hinge on that. For which I suggest here as one significant view. But, that’s O/T for UD, even on a phil issue.

Do tell, KF: Is Christianity the One True ReligionTM at Uncommon Descent, or is Judaism tolerated?

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,20:12   

fascinating.  why, other than joe, have there never been any muslims show up at ID UD?

even better question, why have no socks explored this corner of the Big Tent?

Edited by Erasmus, FCD on Feb. 19 2012,21:12

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,20:57   

Quote (Febble @ Feb. 19 2012,14:15)
Quote (socle @ Feb. 19 2012,16:01)

Just to make it clear, I don't think Gil was offended.

It's just that it doesn't take much for people to take offense, even on other people's behalf.

And it does make for awfully boring discussion.

ETA when it ends up being all about tone and not about substance.

The thing is, there isn't any substance in the IDiots' arguments, and that's what people with a clue have been telling them for a long time. What the IDiots spew all boils down to "tone"; the authoritarian tone of self-serving, self-promoting, self-righteous, oppressive, corrupt, science-hating, lying, dictatorial preachers who want to rule the world.

The IDiots claim that ID is strictly a scientific inference/hypothesis/theory. They should be held to supporting it in a strictly scientific way, and they should be held to discussing the alleged science of it. Any tolerance of the dishonest, irrelevant, diversionary, accusatory, sanctimonious sermons they vomit just makes them think that they can get away with that shit.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
eigenstate



Posts: 78
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,21:04   

Brent resents Aleta choosing to "retreat back to quantum physics":

Quote
Throughout the thread, I often referred to the LNC where it would probably have been more proper to refer to the LoI (law of identity) because they are so interrelated. But, I think it is wiser to first press this LoI upon Aleta and those who look to quantum mechanics for an escape hatch from reality.


Heh. No comment needed on this one, I think.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,21:10   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 19 2012,20:12)
fascinating.  why, other than joe, have there never been any muslims show up at ID UD?

even better question, why have no socks explored this corner of the Big Tent?

Actually, I seem to recall one Muslim showing up during the Davescot era and, despite his statements of support for ID, was immediately run out of town on a rail.  I'll poke around a little tomorrow and see if I can find it.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,21:27   

I want you all to know that I seriously consider what you say, including when you disagree with me.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Paul Flocken



Posts: 290
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,22:43   

Quote (BWE @ Feb. 19 2012,18:30)
That is an equal opportunity blind spot isnt it? :)

I am still amazed at pz myers and his crew's response to criticism of his position regarding gelatoguy and the gelatocaust.

Link?, I never saw that and you have me curious to read it.  Thankyou in advance.

--------------
"The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived, and dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.  Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."-John F. Kennedy

  
keiths



Posts: 2090
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,23:34   

Quote (Paul Flocken @ Feb. 19 2012,20:43)
 
Quote (BWE @ Feb. 19 2012,18:30)
That is an equal opportunity blind spot isnt it? :)

I am still amazed at pz myers and his crew's response to criticism of his position regarding gelatoguy and the gelatocaust.

Link?, I never saw that and you have me curious to read it.  Thankyou in advance.

Google "gelato Skepticon" for tons of articles.

PZ's posts are here:

How not to make a 1100 person convention welcome

Fair weather atheists and sunshine skeptics

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
keiths



Posts: 2090
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2012,23:48   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 19 2012,19:10)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 19 2012,20:12)
fascinating.  why, other than joe, have there never been any muslims show up at ID UD?

even better question, why have no socks explored this corner of the Big Tent?

Actually, I seem to recall one Muslim showing up during the Davescot era and, despite his statements of support for ID, was immediately run out of town on a rail.  I'll poke around a little tomorrow and see if I can find it.

Yeah, I remember that.  There was a UD post on a Muslim riot in Australia, and a Muslim showed up to defend his faith.  I'll see if I can find it.

ETA: Found it: A Different Culture War - Muslim Gang Rapes and the Aussie Riots

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
BWE



Posts: 1901
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,01:00   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 19 2012,18:57)
Quote (Febble @ Feb. 19 2012,14:15)
Quote (socle @ Feb. 19 2012,16:01)

Just to make it clear, I don't think Gil was offended.

It's just that it doesn't take much for people to take offense, even on other people's behalf.

And it does make for awfully boring discussion.

ETA when it ends up being all about tone and not about substance.

The thing is, there isn't any substance in the IDiots' arguments, and that's what people with a clue have been telling them for a long time. What the IDiots spew all boils down to "tone"; the authoritarian tone of self-serving, self-promoting, self-righteous, oppressive, corrupt, science-hating, lying, dictatorial preachers who want to rule the world.

The IDiots claim that ID is strictly a scientific inference/hypothesis/theory. They should be held to supporting it in a strictly scientific way, and they should be held to discussing the alleged science of it. Any tolerance of the dishonest, irrelevant, diversionary, accusatory, sanctimonious sermons they vomit just makes them think that they can get away with that shit.

there's this thing called a "game".

You play for random reasons but usually entertainment is near the top...

--------------
Who said that ev'ry wish would be heard and answered
When wished on the morning star
Somebody thought of that, and someone believed it
Look what it's done so far

The Daily Wingnut

   
k.e..



Posts: 4856
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,04:19   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 19 2012,07:30)
ID supporter kuartus:
 
Quote
I would like to see dembski address some of the critisms of his law of conservation which were raised here on UD and other places like scienceblog and rationalwiki.

Kuartus, here's what you need to know about the Law of Conservation of Information:

1) It's not a law;
2) The quantity in question is not conserved; and
3) The quantity in question is not information.

In other words, pure Dembski.

WAIT A MINUTE, HOMO!

EL .EH.DOUBLE U. LAW IS WOTS RITTEN IN BOOKS 'K?

SO.... THOU SHALT NOT COVET THOU CHANCELLOR'S or DEAN'S BROOM CUPBOARD....IS A FRIKKEN LAW...RIGHT?

OK. SO TEH LAW OF CONSERVATIVE IFROMATION IS..... WHO IS ALLOWED TO KNOW STUFF ....RIGHT?


Q FUKKING E dot D DARWINISTS.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1693
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,08:23   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 19 2012,20:12)
fascinating.  why, other than joe, have there never been any muslims show up at ID UD?

even better question, why have no socks explored this corner of the Big Tent?

There was that one intrepid sock that claimed to be an ID-friendly Satanist.  Good times.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,08:50   

linkies?  i have tried that one before but not at UD lol

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,08:55   

There is 183 hits for "Satan" at UD...

http://goo.gl/ccFC4....C4

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1693
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,09:21   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 20 2012,08:50)
linkies?  i have tried that one before but not at UD lol

Here's the record of the bannination:

Lotf gets banned

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
keiths



Posts: 2090
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,12:51   

Denyse embarrasses herself yet again:
Fiftieth anniversary of John Glenn’s space walk February 20 1962

The first American spacewalk didn't happen until 1965, and it wasn't John Glenn doing the walking.

Could someone introduce Denyse to this newfangled 'Google' thingie?

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,13:28   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 20 2012,12:51)
Denyse embarrasses herself yet again:
Fiftieth anniversary of John Glenn’s space walk February 20 1962

The first American spacewalk didn't happen until 1965, and it wasn't John Glenn doing the walking.

Could someone introduce Denyse to this newfangled 'Google' thingie?

If Denyse were capable of feeling embarrassment she'd have abandoned UD (and in fact all writing activities) years ago.

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Freddie



Posts: 371
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,14:12   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Feb. 20 2012,13:28)
Quote (keiths @ Feb. 20 2012,12:51)
Denyse embarrasses herself yet again:
Fiftieth anniversary of John Glenn’s space walk February 20 1962

The first American spacewalk didn't happen until 1965, and it wasn't John Glenn doing the walking.

Could someone introduce Denyse to this newfangled 'Google' thingie?

If Denyse were capable of feeling embarrassment she'd have abandoned UD (and in fact all writing activities) years ago.

Ha - a liberal editorial whitewashing from that left-leaning site, Wikipedia.  Everyone knows it was John Glenn what done the first space walk ... and Glenn Beck was named after a real American hero because of it.

Ya see, your side just has no proof it ever happened.  Were you there?

ETA: [/joe] Even the article she links to states quite clearly what John Glenn did in 1962.  One more comprehension fail to add to the pot.

--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,15:30   

Quote
Aleta, I visited the other website, but you did not answer the question. You simply rationalized your evasion.

The LINK between LOGIC and REALITY is INHERENT in Law of non-Contradiction, which includes the logical, the psychological, and the ONTOLOGICAL.

You want to keep the logical aspect and abandon the ontological aspect, which is just another way of trying to have it both ways, claiming to accept the law it while abandoning it at the same time.

Here is Aristotle’s formulation:

1. ontological: “It is impossible that the same thing belong and not belong to the same thing at the same time and in the same respect.” (1005b19-20)

2. psychological: “No one can believe that the same thing can (at the same time) be and not be.” (1005b23-24)

3. logical: “The most certain of all basic principles is that contradictory propositions are not true simultaneously.” (1011b13-14)

To reject the ontological aspect of the Law of non-contradiction, or to limit it to the realm of the logical, is to deny the law of non-contradiction. You have, therefore, abandoned rationality. I do not discuss science or any other important matter with irrational people. I simply make reference to the fact and move on.

Take a guess.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,15:46   

only fitting that stephen and gordon are left groping each other in the closet.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2012,17:08   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 20 2012,13:30)
Quote
Aleta, I visited the other website, but you did not answer the question. You simply rationalized your evasion.

The LINK between LOGIC and REALITY is INHERENT in Law of non-Contradiction, which includes the logical, the psychological, and the ONTOLOGICAL.

You want to keep the logical aspect and abandon the ontological aspect, which is just another way of trying to have it both ways, claiming to accept the law it while abandoning it at the same time.

Here is Aristotle’s formulation:

1. ontological: “It is impossible that the same thing belong and not belong to the same thing at the same time and in the same respect.” (1005b19-20)

2. psychological: “No one can believe that the same thing can (at the same time) be and not be.” (1005b23-24)

3. logical: “The most certain of all basic principles is that contradictory propositions are not true simultaneously.” (1011b13-14)

To reject the ontological aspect of the Law of non-contradiction, or to limit it to the realm of the logical, is to deny the law of non-contradiction. You have, therefore, abandoned rationality. I do not discuss science or any other important matter with irrational people. I simply make reference to the fact and move on.

Take a guess.

I guessed stephenb and then looked at the linked page. I'm not sure that it's good that I was right. It may just mean that I've been reading way too much tard from stephenb. :)

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
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