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J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,15:49   

From the latest from Pensacola:
10 years for 'Dr. Dino'

Link:  
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps....006

Michael Stewart
mstewart@pnj.com

Pensacola evangelist Kent Hovind was sentenced Friday afternoon to 10 years in prison on charges of tax fraud.

After a lengthy sentencing hearing that last 5 1/2 hours, U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers ordered Hovind also:

-- Pay $640,000 in restitution to the Internal Revenue Service.

-- Pay the prosecution’s court costs of $7,078.

-- Serve three years parole once he is released from prison.

Hovind’s wife, Jo Hovind, also was scheduled to be sentenced. Rodgers postponed her sentencing until March 1 to allow her defense attorney an opportunity to argue possible discrepancies in sentencing guidelines.

Prior to his sentencing, a tearful Kent Hovind, also known as "Dr. Dino" asked for the court’s leniency.

“If it’s just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach,” Hovind said.

Hovind, founder of Creation Science Evangelism and Dinosaur Adventure Land in Pensacola, was found guilty in November of 58 federal counts, including failure to pay $845,000 in employee-related taxes. He faced a maximum of 288 years in prison.

Jo Hovind was charged and convicted in 44 of the counts involving evading bank-reporting requirements and faces a maximum of 225 years in prison.

Kent Hovind, who is incarcerated in the Escambia County Jail, will be assigned to a prison by the Bureau of Prisons. Rodgers recommended Kent Hovind be sent to the prison at Saufley Field in Pensacola so he will be close to his family.

It will be up to the Bureau of Prisons, however, to make that determination.

In November, a jury found Creation Science Evangelism founder Kent Hovind guilty on 58 federal counts, including failing to pay $845,00 in employee-related taxes.

Hovind's wife, Jo Hovind, also was convicted in 44 of the counts involving bank-reporting requirements.

A federal clerk said Thursday U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers will sentence the Hovinds at 9 a.m. today.

Kent Hovind, who has remained in custody at an undisclosed location since his conviction, faces a maximum of 288 years in prison. Jo Hovind could be sentenced to up to 225 years in prison. She has remained free pending sentencing.[B][/B]

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
stevestory



Posts: 10960
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,15:53   

Ouch

   
JohnW



Posts: 3049
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:00   

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 19 2007,15:49)
Prior to his sentencing, a tearful Kent Hovind, also known as "Dr. Dino" asked for the court’s leniency.

“If it’s just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach,” Hovind said.

"If it's just money the IRS wants, I should have no problem separating it from a few thousand rubes."

Despicable.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:03   

I despise Hovind, but I'd never wish that on anyone...yet he asked for it and he got what he deserved. Fed sentences means he gets virtually NO "good time" taken off his sentence ( 54 days/year = 540 days "good time") .

Edit: back when he got convicted, I figured he'd get 70 months or so, based on other cases. This judge was not happy with Mr. Hovind.

Maybe Hovind asked him during the trial : " How would YOU know what went on, Judge? WERE YOU THERE?!?!? "

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:03   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 19 2007,15:53)
Ouch

Yea verily, I say unto thee, one does not fuck with the IRS.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:08   

Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 19 2007,17:00)
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 19 2007,15:49)
Prior to his sentencing, a tearful Kent Hovind, also known as "Dr. Dino" asked for the court’s leniency.

“If it’s just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach,” Hovind said.

"If it's just money the IRS wants, I should have no problem separating it from a few thousand rubes."

Despicable.

x2

--------------
Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Mike PSS



Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:43   

Quote (improvius @ Jan. 19 2007,17:08)
Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 19 2007,17:00)
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 19 2007,15:49)
Prior to his sentencing, a tearful Kent Hovind, also known as "Dr. Dino" asked for the court’s leniency.

“If it’s just money the IRS wants, there are thousands of people out there who will help pay the money they want so I can go back out there and preach,” Hovind said.

"If it's just money the IRS wants, I should have no problem separating it from a few thousand rubes."

Despicable.

x2

x3  :angry:

He can preach to his "captive" audience all he wants.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:52   

^2

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
phonon



Posts: 396
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,16:54   

I find no pleasure in seeing anyone harassed by the IRS. I think the IRS is despicable. There are many former IRS agents that no longer file 1040 forms. Once they found out that they "don't really have to", they stopped.

Here is another story:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Tax_Trial.html

You've probably heard of this movie, but here it is:

http://video.google.com/videopl....fascism

The title is hyperbolic, but just watch the movie, at least the first 15 minutes.

--------------
With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,17:25   

I don't think anyone here is cheerleading for the IRS, and I think everyone here agrees that they have far too much power to destroy lives without justification. However, they are a fact of life in the US that the rest of us learn to live with, and to rebel against them on the grounds that they're 'illegitimate' to me seems the height of insanity. Everyone who's ever tried that "the IRS is unconstitional, there's no legal reason I should have to pay taxes" protest shtick has gotten their head nailed to the floor. The fact that Hovind evidently didn't think it would happen to him is a towering testimony to his stupidity. And the fact that instead of taking responsibility for this, he wants one last chance to squeeze his payments out of his none-too-bright followers tells us all we need to know about his ethics.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
J. G. Cox



Posts: 38
Joined: Dec. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,17:30   

Render unto God what is God's, and render unto the IRS 40% of your income.

  
ScaryFacts



Posts: 337
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,19:03   

Hovind doesn't make a very sympathetic defendant - still 10 years for stupidity sees pretty steep.

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,19:08   

Quote (ScaryFacts @ Jan. 19 2007,20:03)
Hovind doesn't make a very sympathetic defendant - still 10 years for stupidity sees pretty steep.

I don't think so at all.  He was facing 584 years or something like that.  He only got 10.  He got off easy.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,19:20   

Quote (GCT @ Jan. 19 2007,19:08)
Quote (ScaryFacts @ Jan. 19 2007,20:03)
Hovind doesn't make a very sympathetic defendant - still 10 years for stupidity sees pretty steep.

I don't think so at all.  He was facing 584 years or something like that.  He only got 10.  He got off easy.

Hovind's legal problems and contempt for the law go WAY back:

Quote
Kent Hovind has been in trouble with law enforcement several times. These have included assault and battery, falsely declaring bankruptcy, making threats against federal officials, filing false complaints, failing to get necessary building permits, and various tax-related charges.
[edit]Assault and battery
In 2002, he was charged with one count of felony assault, one count of misdemeanor battery, and one count of burglary with assault/battery.[24] In December 2002, the charges were dropped by the alleged victim, Hovind's secretary.[20]
[edit]Property taxes and zoning ordinance
Hovind was charged on September 13, 2002, for failure to observe county zoning regulations with respect to Dinosaur Adventure Land.[20] Despite arguments that the owners did not need a permit due to the nature of the building, the park has been found in violation of local regulations.[25] On June 5, 2006, Hovind pled nolo contendere as charged to three counts: constructing a building without a permit, refusing to sign a citation (Case # 2001 MM 023489 A)[26] and violating the county building code (Case # 2002 MM 026670 A)[27]. Hovind was ordered to pay $225.00 per count. The plea brought to an end the 5-year criminal (misdemeanor) court battle over a $50.00 building permit. In June 2006 Hovind complied with the county law (Case # 2001 MM 023489 A)[28]. Hovind estimates he spent $40,000 in legal expenses on this case. On June 19, 2006, the delinquent 2003-2005 property taxes/penalties for Dinosaur Adventure Land were paid in an amount of $10,402.64 [4].
[edit]Federal civil tax matters, bankruptcy, and renouncing citizenship
Hovind does not run his various educational and religious activities through a U.S. Internal Revenue Code Section 501©(3) organization. Instead, the organizational structure he uses apparently is "based on various questionable trust documents purchased from ... a known promoter of tax avoidance schemes."[8] The U.S. Tax Court has concluded that Hovind used these trust documents as well as other fraudulent means to conceal the ownership and control of his activities and properties.[8]
Hovind was originally reported to the IRS by Pensacola Christian College senior vice president Rebekah Horton in the mid 1990s, after she learned of Hovind's anti-tax stand. "'We know the Scriptures do not promote (tax evasion),'" Horton said in testimony against Hovind during his 2006 trial, "'It's against Scripture teaching'.... Horton believed it was the college's duty to report the misleading doctrine. 'I didn't want to see innocent people get led astray,' she said. Pensacola Christian College then decided its students no longer were permitted to work with Creation Science Evangelism".[29]

Wikisource has original text related to this article:
The Hovind Bankruptcy Decision
In 1996 Hovind unsuccessfully filed for bankruptcy to avoid paying federal income taxes. Hovind was found to have lied about his possessions and income[30]. He claimed that as a minister of God everything he owns belonged to God and he is not subject to paying taxes to the United States on the money he received for doing God's work (citing US tax code §508©(1)(a)) [31]. The court ordered him to pay the money and upheld the IRS determination that Hovind's claim "was filed in bad faith for the sole purpose of avoiding payment of federal income taxes." In the ruling, the judge called Hovind's arguments "patently absurd." The judge also noted that "the IRS has no record of the debtor ever having filed a federal income tax return," although this was not the court's reason for denying the bankruptcy claim.

Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Kent Hovind 2005 Affidavit
On May 13, 1998, Hovind and his wife attempted to evade all responsibility for any previous promises, debts, or legal agreements made prior to April 15, 1998, by filing a document called "Power of Attorney and Revocation of Signature"[32] with the Escambia County Clerk of Courts. The document reads, in part: "I/we do hereby revoke and make void... all signatures on any instruments...". The Hovinds claimed they had signed government documents "due to the use of various elements of fraud and misrepresentations, duress, coercion, under perjury, mistake, 'bankruptcy'."[32]
In the document, the Hovinds argue that Social Security is essentially a "Ponzi scheme."[32] The Hovinds referred to the United States Government as "the 'bankrupt' corporate government" and said they were renouncing their United States citizenship and Social Security numbers to become "a natural citizen of 'America' and a natural sojourner." [32] In 2002 Hovind was again delinquent in paying his taxes, and unsuccessfully sued the IRS for harassment.[33] The Hovinds referred to their home state of Florida as "the State of Florida Body-Politic Corporation."[32] Judges and the IRS did not appear to honor this as a legally relevant document in future decisions.[33]

Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Kent Hovind v Scott Schneider
In 2004, IRS agents raided Hovind's home and business to confiscate financial records.[34] IRS agent Scott Schneider said none of Hovind's businesses had a business license, nor tax-exempt status. The Associated Press quoted Schneider as saying "Since 1997, Hovind has engaged in financial transactions indicating sources of income and has made deposits to bank accounts well in excess of $1 million per year during some of these years, which would require the filing of federal income taxes."[35] On June 3, 2004, the IRS issued tax liens of $504,957.24 against Hovind and his son and their businesses due to previous legal maneuverings to evade taxation by moving property between himself, his son, and other legal entities.[36]

Wikisource has original text related to this article:
Kent Hovind v Commissioner of Internal Revenue
On July 7, 2006, the United States Tax Court (Docket number 011894-05L) found that Hovind was deficient in paying his federal income taxes in tax years 1995-97 in the amount of $504,957.24.[8] The Tax Court found that the IRS had a valid, perfected lien on Hovind's property in that amount. The IRS is currently levying against Hovind's property to satisfy his unpaid tax liabilities.[8] In the Memorandum Opinion the judge noted that Hovind's "organizational structure . . . was based on various questionable trust documents purchased from Glen Stoll, a known promoter of tax avoidance schemes."[8] Moreover, Hovind's defense was based on "bizarre arguments" and "some of which constitute tax protestor arguments involving excise taxes and the alleged '100% voluntary' nature of the income tax."[8]


So the 10-year sentence is nothing out of the ordinary. Clearly he pissed the feds off in a big way and they weren't about to let him walk.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,19:29   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 19 2007,20:20)
 
Quote
Hovind estimates he spent $40,000 in legal expenses on this case. On June 19, 2006, the delinquent 2003-2005 property taxes/penalties for Dinosaur Adventure Land were paid in an amount of $10,402.64 [4].

Oh yeah, I'm sure Hovind paid that. :angry:

 
Quote
So the 10-year sentence is nothing out of the ordinary. Clearly he pissed the feds off in a big way and they weren't about to let him walk.


Nothing out of the ordinary?  I still think 10 years was too little for that scumbag.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,19:39   

Quote (GCT @ Jan. 19 2007,19:29)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 19 2007,20:20)
 
Quote
Hovind estimates he spent $40,000 in legal expenses on this case. On June 19, 2006, the delinquent 2003-2005 property taxes/penalties for Dinosaur Adventure Land were paid in an amount of $10,402.64 [4].

Oh yeah, I'm sure Hovind paid that. :angry:

 
Quote
So the 10-year sentence is nothing out of the ordinary. Clearly he pissed the feds off in a big way and they weren't about to let him walk.


Nothing out of the ordinary?  I still think 10 years was too little for that scumbag.

I agree. But by 'nothing out of the ordinary' I meant 'not abnormally big for what he did'.

Whether it's an abnormally SMALL sentence is a separate question. I don't know what the range of usual sentences are for people who've gone as far off the rails as Hovind.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,19:46   

A crooked lying liar who only distinguishes himself from the rest of the creationist crackpots by not paying his taxes.

He only finaly caught on, when he realised all he had to do was tell a few more creationist lies to rubes to raise funds to pay those taxes back when the IRS asked him.

The guy is a petty crook who found almost the perfect scam. Stupid people gave him money expecting nothing in return except sweet little lies.

And he would be free if he wasn't so incredibly dishonest. The smart ones know when to tell the truth.

So Hovind, Haggart, AFD etc etc is there a creationist who is not a pathological liar?

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,20:37   

Any bets of single-malt scotch on what the take will be by DaveScott and teh rubes at UD?  Will Dave Spring to action like he did with the "Marines Forbidden To Pray Fiasco"?!  That was GREAT!  Can he re-create, I mean design the tard for us?

Also worth considering, does, Ken Ham play "adopt-a-dino" and promise to pray with and take care of all of Dr. Dino's dinos?  Maybe the same thing will happen to Ham?

It must be some plan of Fred and Barney's that backfired against Hovind.  That's the REAL "elephant in the room" that no one wants to talk about...the perils of men and dinos living together.  We can only hope that the same will happen to Ham.  

BWA HA HA!

Hovind, you ignorant slut, what did you think would happen?!

BWA ha ha!

COME ON HOMO DAVETARD!  Ride to his rescue!

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,21:00   

Arden: I posted this over at Pharyngula back in November:
Quote
Hovind will appeal, be forced to pay restitution on taxes owed, get a nice fine, have his properties confiscated/sold, and face some nice fat bills otherwise ( think of the legal fees). I'd expect him to get at least 70 months or more, based on previous cases like the "Minnesota Tax Protestors" http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1996/April96/158.txt.htm [top sentence was 96 months]
and the husband and wife team who got 156 months and 60 months respectively:  http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv05445.htm   Since 1987, the Feds only allow 54 days of "good time " per year, which means you do roughly 85% of the sentence. Schadenfreude.

Those were pretty egregious cases and Hovind got about the same.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,22:13   

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 19 2007,20:37)
Any bets of single-malt scotch on what the take will be by DaveScott and teh rubes at UD?  Will Dave Spring to action like he did with the "Marines Forbidden To Pray Fiasco"?!  That was GREAT!  Can he re-create, I mean design the tard for us?

An easy call. Dave will make some snarls about how 'those church burning Ebola Boys' at ATBC are taking too much glee in Hovind's downfall, and declare that this proves that Darwinians all hate Christians. He will then offer a evasively-worded defense of Hovind, and imply that nefarious conspiracies of liberals who hate religion are the only reason that Hovind is going to jail, though he will fail to offer any kind of proof for this. He will fail to mention any of the huge list of felonies Hovind has committed, or any of his YEC inanities. At no point will he ever explicitly say what all this has to do with Intelligent Design, instead implying that Hovind is some kind of Good Christian Martyred by the Liberal Chance Worshippers.

Quote
to pay restitution on taxes owed, get a nice fine, have his properties confiscated/sold, and face some nice fat bills otherwise ( think of the legal fees). I'd expect him to get at least 70 months or more, based on previous cases like the "Minnesota Tax Protestors" http://www.usdoj.gov/opa/pr/1996/April96/158.txt.htm [top sentence was 96 months]
and the husband and wife team who got 156 months and 60 months respectively:  http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv05445.htm   Since 1987, the Feds only allow 54 days of "good time " per year, which means you do roughly 85% of the sentence. Schadenfreude.


Yup, so they got 60 and 156 months, and slimy old Kent got 120. So Hovind's sentence looks pretty typical.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
phonon



Posts: 396
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,22:22   

Hmm. I also haven't followed the Hovind case. Was it personal income taxes or corporate taxes or what? If it was corporate or property, then I guess the whole protest thing doesn't apply.

And maybe Hovind gulled people out of their money, which is no different than any church or casino. But those people gave their money freely, just like anyone going to the movies or to see a stand-up comic or a $5000-a-plate fundraiser for some presidential candidate. But the IRS comes with force. If you don't put money in a preacher's basket, he doesn't arrest you and put you in jail for ten years.

Kent Hovind may be dumb, he may be a liar, he may be whatever, but in my personal opinion, he doesn't deserve to go to jail for 10 years for not paying taxes.

(Now, all that stuff about assault, battery, and burglary, if true, should warrant punishment of some sort.)
Quote
The Hovinds referred to the United States Government as "the 'bankrupt' corporate government"
$9 trillion in debt? I agree with them.

I want to be clear though. The only kind of tax I'm personally against is the federal personal income tax. If Hovind wasn't paying property taxes or some other kind, then, well, that sucks of him.

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With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 19 2007,22:25   

Just thought I'd be a smartass and post the following defense of Hovind by some walking stereotype from Kentucky:

 
Quote
Dr. Hovind - A Wonderful Christian Fri Jan 19, 2007 10:12 am
I live in Kentucky and only learned last week that Dr. Hovind and his wife had been convicted of tax evasion. I literally cried when I heard the news. What a horrible, horrible travesty. Dr. Hovind was (and is) one of the greatest Christian inspirations I've ever encountered. His love of the Lord Jesus Christ, the King James Bible and Creation Science is reflected in his years of relentless and dogged dedication to spreading the Bible-centered truth about one of the greatest deceptions ever hoisted on mankind - evolution. In Dr. Hovind's debates with the monkey-men, he always comes across in a loving, yet uncompromising manner. He has been doing, practically single-handedly, what the body of Christ should have been doing all along - marking them "which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned" and avoiding "oppositions of science falsely so called" (see Rom. 16:17 & 1 Tim. 6:20). While Dr. Hovind was obviously mislead on his taxpaying practices, he has, for many years, been a model and a great example of how Christians should serve the Lord as he's shouted loud and long to a nation (and world) which has plugged it's collective ears to the truth of the Scriptures and to the only way of salvation - the Lord Jesus Christ. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us ..." (Titus 3:5) "... and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1John 1:7) Where Dr. Hovind messes up (he's only a sinner saved by grace) we can ignore his example (especially his tax practices), but where he sets a perfect example of Christian service we can, and should imitate him. The apostle Paul wrote: "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ." (1 Cor. 11:1) I'll be in prayer for Dr. and Mrs. Hovind and their family and pray that the Lord will show them much mercy. The service and good he's done for the cause of Christ and the Truth FAR OUTWEIGHS the fact that the government didn't get their cut of the $$$ Dr. Hovind was using for the Lord.
Posted by: Jeff Mardis


PS:

Phonon:

Read the Wikipedia article on Hovind, it's pretty comprehensive.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,01:23   

Phonon,
As I understand it the thing that got Hovind into the biggest trouble was not paying his employees taxes and deliberately trying to get around it by lies such as misleading his employees who testafied against him and criminal deception such as moving cash around in less than 10k amounts in an attempt to reduce his percieved cash earnings.

The sort of thing anyone who operates outside the law does to avoid detection. The only thing that separates him from a drug dealer, is he operated in broad daylight.

It would not be unreasonable to assume his earnings were much higher.

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Altabin



Posts: 308
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,02:09   

Hovind blogging just before the sentence:
Quote
Please pray for us and Judge Casey Rogers on Friday morning, January 19, 2007 at 9:00 a.m.  Judge Rogers can rule in any number of ways.  Pray specifically for an acquittal to be granted or that the Eleventh Circuit will grant our motion for release and turn the case over on appeal.  The acquittal would be best for all involved.

Pray specifically... wow.

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k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,03:28   

Quote (Altabin @ Jan. 20 2007,02:09)
Hovind blogging just before the sentence:
 
Quote
Please pray for us and Judge Casey Rogers on Friday morning, January 19, 2007 at 9:00 a.m.  Judge Rogers can rule in any number of ways.  Pray specifically for an acquittal to be granted or that the Eleventh Circuit will grant our motion for release and turn the case over on appeal.  The acquittal would be best for all involved.

Pray specifically... wow.

Oh yeah!

These messengers of the 'one true world of dog' speak to each other as masters of dogs thought process.

Their minds eye and what they think god IS are inseparable.

They speak with such a profound assurance that they alone and in unison with their sycophants are the pathway for the word of god .....without any hint of introspection or shadow of doubt.

As far as they are concerned they are god’s true representatives here on earth (elected by themselves of course).

They are no different to the 9/11 bombers in their belief and assurance that they act in the name of the lord.

Now previously a lot of them would have been locked up in various asylums for the insane having been identified as being schizophrenic or psychotic where they could have REALLY MET GOD ...ward 5, 2nd bed and Napoleon,  Cleopatra etc etc

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,04:39   

.
Follow-up on Hovind
Quote
A newly remorseful Pensacola evangelist, who still disputes the government's right to make him pay taxes, was sentenced Friday afternoon to 10 years in prison on federal tax charges.

His wife, Jo, will be sentenced March 1 on charges of evading bank-reporting requirements.

Before his sentencing, a tearful Kent Hovind compared his situation to that of the lion and the mouse in Aesop's Fables.

"I feel like the mouse," Hovind told U.S. District Judge Casey Rodgers. "I stand here in great fear of the power of this court. Your decision can destroy my life, my ministry and my grandchildren."

Hovind's courtroom comments were in stark contrast to more-combative statements he made in recent telephone calls from Escambia County Jail.

In a recording of one of the telephone conversations played in court Friday, Hovind said the Internal Revenue Service, presiding judge and prosecutor broke the law by going after him, and there were things he could do "to make their lives miserable."

.
"Mouse"? More like "cornered rat." Read it at
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/apps....006

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,04:43   

MUST......NOT......GIVE......IN.......TO......SCHADENFREUDE.. .MUST....NOT....GIVE...IN....MUST....NOT....

BUH BUH BUH BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHaHAHAHAHAHAHAH AhahahahaHAHAHAhahHAHah

{Breathes}

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

{Ugh, vomits, breathes}

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok I'm done.

Louis

P.S. BWAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

P.P.S. Ah sweet sweet reality external to one's inter-ear cavity. How I love it so. How Hovind the lying chiselling SOB must hate it. I wonder how long it will be into his sentence before he finally gets done to him what he has been doing to people all over the USA for years.

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Bye.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,07:56   

Quote (phonon @ Jan. 19 2007,23:22)
And maybe Hovind gulled people out of their money, which is no different than any church or casino. But those people gave their money freely, just like anyone going to the movies or to see a stand-up comic or a $5000-a-plate fundraiser for some presidential candidate. But the IRS comes with force. If you don't put money in a preacher's basket, he doesn't arrest you and put you in jail for ten years.

Kent Hovind may be dumb, he may be a liar, he may be whatever, but in my personal opinion, he doesn't deserve to go to jail for 10 years for not paying taxes.

You taxes are higher because of scum like Hovind.  There's plenty of people out there who game the system, and it drives up taxes for all of us who don't.  It's like shoplifters, insurance scam artists, etc.

  
Mike PSS



Posts: 428
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,08:47   

Quote (phonon @ Jan. 19 2007,23:22)
Hmm. I also haven't followed the Hovind case. Was it personal income taxes or corporate taxes or what? If it was corporate or property, then I guess the whole protest thing doesn't apply.

...

Kent Hovind may be dumb, he may be a liar, he may be whatever, but in my personal opinion, he doesn't deserve to go to jail for 10 years for not paying taxes.

Hovind not only didn't pay his own personal income tax he also didn't pay any of the employees withholding taxes.  Regardless of his employees own tax declarations Dinoworld has the obligation to pay the social security (~6.5% of salary) and medicare/medicaide (~1.5% of salary) of ALL employees on the payroll.  His employees are also obligated to pay the same amount into social security and medicare/medicaide (these quantities are usually withheld by the employer every paycheck but in this case Dinoworld never withheld any money from the employee paychecks), but I don't think the IRS is pursuing any of the employees directly in this incident.  Maybe in follow up audits will the IRS pursue some of the employees.

Hovind had already settled the property tax issue with the county (see the Wiki write-up) but this case was with the Feds and the IRS.
 
Quote
 
Quote
The Hovinds referred to the United States Government as "the 'bankrupt' corporate government"
$9 trillion in debt? I agree with them.

I want to be clear though. The only kind of tax I'm personally against is the federal personal income tax. If Hovind wasn't paying property taxes or some other kind, then, well, that sucks of him.

The US debt represents about 65% of the countries GDP.  With this measure in mind there are countries with a far worse balance sheet.  I think Japan has over 150% debt/GDP and Italy and Brazil are near 100%.  Britain is around 40% right now.
In 1946, after WWII, the US debt/GDP was around 130% also but soon shrunk to 45%.  

I'm not going to politicize these numbers, but the chart below shows some of the interesting trends when looking at the debt and relating that to historical events like the 2000/2001 crash in tech stocks, Bush II (and GOP) spending policy compared to second term Clinton.  I leave it up to the reader to find things out from these numbers.



EDIT:  Getting some facts straight.  Here's the debt/GDP table.  Straight from the CIA so you KNOW it's correct.https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2186rank.html

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 20 2007,11:44   

From what I hear, certain classes of prisoners, like rapists or child molestors, generally have a, uh, tough time in prison (from the other inmates).

Does anyone know where "tax-evading religious frauds" fit in the prison hierarchy . . . .?

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
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