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  Topic: Disco "Legal Scholars" Investigating Judgment Day, I am NOT making this shit up< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:06   

I just got wind of this in one of the posts at PT.

 
Quote
Discovery Institute: PBS Teacher's Guide Injects Religion into the Classroom

A "Briefing Packet for Educators" just issued by PBS in conjunction with the NOVA program Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial inserts religion into the classroom and encourages teaching practices that are likely unconstitutional, says Discovery Institute.

"The NOVA/PBS teaching guide encourages the injection of religion into classroom teaching about evolution in a way that likely would violate current Supreme Court precedents about the First Amendment's Establishment Clause," says Dr. John West, vice president for public policy and legal affairs with Discovery Institute.

"The teaching guide is riddled with factual errors that misrepresent both the standard definition of intelligent design and the beliefs of those scientists and scholars who support the theory," adds West.

The Institute has sent the PBS teaching guide out to 16 attorneys and legal scholars for review and analysis of its constitutionality.

Discovery Institute is hosting a press teleconference call on Wednesday, Nov. 7th at 1pm EST to discuss the legal review of the PBS teaching guide accompanying the Judgment Day docudrama program airing next week. To participate in the call, or to request an interview, contact Anika Smith at Discovery Institute, (206) 292-0401 x155, [EMAIL=asmith@discovery.org.]asmith@discovery.org.[/EMAIL]


See it here http://www.swnebr.net/newspap....?162418

I'm digging around the filthy Disco web site for more tard...

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:11   

This is either a serious attempt to seek legal redress, or a publicity stunt designed to separate DI supporters from some more of their money.  Let's see if we can guess which.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:20   

Here is a link to the offending Teachers Guide:

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/id/media/nova-id-briefing.pdf

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:28   

Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 06 2007,12:11)
This is either a serious attempt to seek legal redress, or a publicity stunt designed to separate DI supporters from some more of their money.  Let's see if we can guess which.

You're forgetting a highly plausible third option, which is that it's a stunt that obviously won't accomplish anything legally, yet which they hope will intimidate PBS into pulling the teaching packet. In other words, they know it's bullshit legally, but they're hoping that PBS will back down just to avoid the hassle.

If successful, this will be touted at UD as proof of the validity of ID.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:39   

I hope all the major news outlets pick this up.  The result would be more viewers and more teachers particpating.  Well not homeschool, "fundy" teachers of course.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:52   

Not sure what the DI is complaining about.

Quote

What does science say about the
nature of religious beliefs?
By definition science cannot address supernatural causes
because its methodology is confined to the natural world.
Therefore science has nothing to say about the nature of
God or about people’s spiritual beliefs. This does not mean
science is anti-religious; rather, it means science simply
cannot engage in this level of explanation.

[...]

Q: Why not teach intelligent design,
or creationism, alongside evolution?
A: The federal courts have ruled that creationism, creation
science, and intelligent design are not science, but instead
endorse a specific religious belief. Therefore, these topics
are not appropriate content for a science classroom. Neither
ID nor any other form of creationism has met any of the
standards of science and cannot be tested by the scientifi c
method. On the other hand, evolution, like all other sciences,
is founded on a growing body of observable and reproducible
evidence in the natural world. The state of knowledge in
evolutionary biology is the product of 150 years of rigorous
challenges using the methods of science, whereas intelligent
design is not supported by scientific evidence. Teaching
evolution alongside these other approaches would imply
that creation science and intelligent design meet these same
high standards of testability, and they do not.

[...]

Q: But some people say evolution is
just another form of religion itself:
Darwinism.
A: The idea of evolution did not begin or end with Charles
Darwin. Many alternate proposals about evolution already
existed when Darwin published On the Origin of Species
in 1859, but his work was quickly recognized as the most
compelling explanation in the field of natural history. Since
then, thousands of scientists have added greatly to our
understanding of evolution, through research in biology,
genetics, paleontology, geology, and more. If modern
studies contradicted Darwin’s work, science would follow
the evidence. Instead, over and over again, research has
confirmed the principles Darwin outlined, while further
fleshing out the picture. Evolutionary biology does not
depend on the personal authority of one person’s writing.
Evidence for evolution comes from many sources, including
the fossil record, comparative anatomy, and genetics. The
theory of evolution is based on facts. Religion is based on
belief. Evolution is science, not religion.

Q: Can you accept evolution and still
believe in religion?
A: Yes. The common view that evolution is inherently anti-
religious is simply false. All that evolution tells us is that life
on this planet could have arisen by natural processes. For
many people of various faiths, showing that something is
due to a natural process doesn’t take it outside the realm of
the divine. Religious thinkers across the ages have written
that merely showing that something is natural puts it within
the influence of God, the creator of all nature. By definition
science cannot address supernatural causes because its
methodology is confined to the natural world. Therefore
science has nothing to say about the nature of God or about
people’s spiritual beliefs. This does not mean science is anti-
religious; rather, it means science simply cannot engage in
this level of explanation.



Ah, there are various statements of support for teaching evolutionary science from Christian denominations. This sort of thing was at issue in a case in California, IIRC.

I know of no better way to demonstrate in the next court dustup that the DI is pushing a narrow religious viewpoint than for them to object to the page of support statements in the educator's guide. They would be promoting their own theology and working to suppress that of others.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,12:57   

If you are affiliated with a press outlet or know someone who is, please do get in on the conference call or encourage those you know to do so.

It would be good to see just how restrictive the DI is about who they will accept for their conference call.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:04   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Nov. 06 2007,10:28)
Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 06 2007,12:11)
This is either a serious attempt to seek legal redress, or a publicity stunt designed to separate DI supporters from some more of their money.  Let's see if we can guess which.

You're forgetting a highly plausible third option, which is that it's a stunt that obviously won't accomplish anything legally, yet which they hope will intimidate PBS into pulling the teaching packet. In other words, they know it's bullshit legally, but they're hoping that PBS will back down just to avoid the hassle.

If successful, this will be touted at UD as proof of the validity of ID.

Given the strength of their case, this would rest on the assumption that PBS has no balls at all*.  Given that they've made the show and the teacher's guide in the first place, I would be very surprised if they backed down over something as ludicrous as this.



*  Bad choice of phrase.  Hitler Has Only Got One Ball is going to be pinging through my skull for the next four or five hours now.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:13   

Good grief...teachers will need a *de-briefing* packet after reading that one sided rag.  The Discovery Institute should be allowed to distribute a packet as well.  

Here's the hilarious part...in the books section they offer 14 books supporting evolution, and 1 in regard to design.  

Most high school teachers don't have a clue as to the depth of this debate.  Pity...

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:16   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,13:13)
Good grief...teachers will need a *de-briefing* packet after reading that one sided rag.  The Discovery Institute should be allowed to distribute a packet as well.  

Here's the hilarious part...in the books section they offer 14 books supporting evolution, and 1 in regard to design.  

Most high school teachers don't have a clue as to the depth of this debate.  Pity...

WTF???

Damn! Your right, FTK!  How in the hell did that ID support book get in there?"  We'll get rid of it right away.

Thanks for the help,

JD

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:19   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,11:13)
Here's the hilarious part...in the books section they offer 14 books supporting evolution, and 1 in regard to design.  

Fair point, FTK.  

What's the ratio of evolution to creationism among peer-reviewed scientific papers published in the last few years?  That would have formed a sound basis for the reading list weighting.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:40   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,13:13)
Good grief...teachers will need a *de-briefing* packet after reading that one sided rag.  The Discovery Institute should be allowed to distribute a packet as well.  

Here's the hilarious part...in the books section they offer 14 books supporting evolution, and 1 in regard to design.  

Most high school teachers don't have a clue as to the depth of this debate.  Pity...

The Disco Institute should be allowed to distribute a packet for exactly what reason?  Did they pay for the production of this documentary? Did they sponsor it on PBS? Hell, did they even bother to show up at Dover, the subject of the documentary? No, no, and no.

What, exactly, gives them the right to propagandize here?

I can hardly wait for the reply...

Oh BTW, that 14:1 in books is a lot more favorable to the ID cause than some other numbers, like

1) number of practicing biologists in either camp
2) number of peer-reviewed publications in either camp
3) number of testable hypotheses in either camp

etc.  You should be happy it is only 14:1, frankly. If it reflected the real numbers, it'd be a whole lot worse.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:42   

Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 06 2007,13:19)
Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,11:13)
Here's the hilarious part...in the books section they offer 14 books supporting evolution, and 1 in regard to design.  

Fair point, FTK.  

What's the ratio of evolution to creationism among peer-reviewed scientific papers published in the last few years?  That would have formed a sound basis for the reading list weighting.

I'm willing to be more generous to the IDers.  FtK, I will be satisfied with the ratio of peer reviewed and published papers supporting evolution to the total number of ID papers submitted for peer review, regardless of whether they were accepted or rejected for publication.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,13:56   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,13:13)
Good grief...teachers will need a *de-briefing* packet after reading that one sided rag.  The Discovery Institute should be allowed to distribute a packet as well.  

Here's the hilarious part...in the books section they offer 14 books supporting evolution, and 1 in regard to design.  

Most high school teachers don't have a clue as to the depth of this debate.  Pity...

Hey FtK which Id books have your kids read?

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:02   

LOL...right.  You always like to fall back on the good 'ol "we have more peer-reviewed papers than you do" routine, knowing full well that it would be a cold day in hell before ID would be allowed in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.  And, of course evolution will have more published papers anyway because the mechanisms of evolution are empirically sound and quite valuable to science on a *microevolutionary* level.  Macro=worthless to science unless you enjoy just-so stories which contemplate how dinos sprouted wings and took to flight or other such rubbish.  

PBS looks ridiculous when they only allow *one* book on ID.  Endless books have been published in regard to ID in the past 10 years.  If they actually allowed 14 of the best on that list, and high school teachers actually read them, you people would be up a shit creek without a paddle.  You'd be stuck answering endless questions, rather than merely dousing them with the "facts".

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:08   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,14:02)
LOL...right.  You always like to fall back on the good 'ol "we have more peer-reviewed papers than you do" routine, knowing full well that it would be a cold day in hell before ID would be allowed in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.  And, of course evolution will have more published papers anyway because the mechanisms of evolution are empirically sound and quite valuable to science on a *microevolutionary* level.  Macro=worthless to science unless you enjoy just-so stories which contemplate how dinos sprouted wings and took to flight or other such rubbish.  

PBS looks ridiculous when they only allow *one* book on ID.  Endless books have been published in regard to ID in the past 10 years.  If they actually allowed 14 of the best on that list, and high school teachers actually read them, you people would be up a shit creek without a paddle.  You'd be stuck answering endless questions, rather than merely dousing them with the "facts".

Quote
The state of knowledge in
evolutionary biology is the product of 150 years of rigorous
challenges using the methods of science, whereas intelligent
design is not supported by scientific evidence. Teaching
evolution alongside these other approaches would imply
that creation science and intelligent design meet these same
high standards of testability, and they do not.


--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:10   

Hey FtK what do you think of the ID camp refusing to be interviewed?  

Quote
Q: Of the three expert witnesses who testified on behalf of Dover—Michael Behe, Scott Minich, and Steve Fuller—only Steve Fuller appears in the program. Why did you not interview the other two, who are among the country's leading proponents of ID?

Apsell: Michael Behe and Scott Minich, as well as other proponents of ID, were invited to participate in the program. We were committed to presenting the views of the major participants in the trial as fairly as possible. And our preference would have been to have their views presented directly, through firsthand interviews.

However, Michael Behe, Scott Minich, and other ID proponents affiliated with the Discovery Institute declined to be interviewed under the normal journalistic conditions that NOVA uses for all programs. In the midst of our discussions, we even offered to provide them with complete footage of the interviews, so that they could be reassured that nothing would be taken out of context. But they declined nonetheless.

In some sense, though, we do hear from both Behe and Minich in the program through our recreated trial scenes; the words that our actors speak are taken verbatim from the trial transcripts. And of course we hear directly in the program from lawyers for the defense—Richard Thompson, Patrick Gillen, and Robert Muise—as well as from Phillip Johnson, who is often credited as "the father of intelligent design."



Read more
here

And I'm still curious to know which ID books your children have read.  Well other than the bible.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:13   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,14:02)
LOL...right.  You always like to fall back on the good 'ol "we have more peer-reviewed papers than you do" routine, knowing full well that it would be a cold day in hell before ID would be allowed in mainstream peer-reviewed journals.  And, of course evolution will have more published papers anyway because the mechanisms of evolution are empirically sound and quite valuable to science on a *microevolutionary* level.  Macro=worthless to science unless you enjoy just-so stories which contemplate how dinos sprouted wings and took to flight or other such rubbish.  

PBS looks ridiculous when they only allow *one* book on ID.  Endless books have been published in regard to ID in the past 10 years.  If they actually allowed 14 of the best on that list, and high school teachers actually read them, you people would be up a shit creek without a paddle.  You'd be stuck answering endless questions, rather than merely dousing them with the "facts".

Not an answer. Why should the DI be allowed to distribute propaganda related to this film when they didn't show up at Dover and when the DI heavyweights actually refused to be interviewed for the documentary?

Please try again, rather than shift into your standard "we're so persecuted we won't even dare to try to publish" schtick. It won't work here.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
JohnW



Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:18   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,12:02)
PBS looks ridiculous when they only allow *one* book on ID.

Huh?

Last time I checked, PBS weren't in the book-banning business, and bookshops didn't just stock publications on the approved list.  If people want to read more than one ID book, there's not much PBS can do to stop them.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:24   

Quote
Not an answer. Why should the DI be allowed to distribute propaganda related to this film when they didn't show up at Dover and when the DI heavyweights actually refused to be interviewed for the documentary?


ID reps did show up at the trial, and it's well documented why some of the DI fellows weren't there.  You're well aware of the situation, and I'm tired of repeating the same shit day in, day out.

Why wouldn't they take part in the documentary?

LOL...one word - NOVA.  

Quote
Please try again, rather than shift into your standard "we're so persecuted we won't even dare to try to publish" schtick. It won't work here.


Of course it won't work here.  Facts are usually dismissed in this neck of the woods.  But, hopefully those interested enough in evolution to watch the PBS flick will also attend "Expelled" in February.  That might provide them with a more well rounded view of the issues with regard to what the "scientific community" will and will not allow to be considered alongside their dogma.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:24   

Quote (JohnW @ Nov. 06 2007,14:18)
Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,12:02)
PBS looks ridiculous when they only allow *one* book on ID.

Huh?

Last time I checked, PBS weren't in the book-banning business, and bookshops didn't just stock publications on the approved list.  If people want to read more than one ID book, there's not much PBS can do to stop them.

Oh Noes. I better hope they don't go out and read more ID books because then
Quote
you people would be up a shit creek without a paddle.

Oh Noes.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:26   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,14:24)
LOL...one word - NOVA.  

Quote
Please try again, rather than shift into your standard "we're so persecuted we won't even dare to try to publish" schtick. It won't work here.


Of course it won't work here.  Facts are usually dismissed in this neck of the woods.  But, hopefully those interested enough in evolution to watch the PBS flick will also attend "Expelled" in February.  That might provide them with a more well rounded view of the issues with regard to what the "scientific community" will and will not allow to be considered alongside their dogma.

Quote

LOL...one word - NOVA.  


you say that like it means something. Explain? Is that your entire comment on that matter?

Quote
Facts are usually dismissed in this neck of the woods.


Like what?

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:26   

Quote
Quote
as well as from Phillip Johnson, who is often credited as "the father of intelligent design."


I wonder who it's monther was? :O

  
Henry J



Posts: 5786
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:28   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 06 2007,13:26)
Quote

LOL...one word - NOVA.  


you say that like it means something. Explain? Is that your entire comment on that matter?

In Spanish "nova" means "it doesn't go". (And there's a car manufacturer that wondered why their model wasn't selling well in Mexico...  :p  )

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:38   

Quote
NOVA revolves around a simple premise: the world of science is exciting! For NOVA viewers, science means adventure and exploration

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/
Ah, I see what you mean FTK. For NOVA science means adventure. For you it means twisting and turning to support your ideology with a veneer of "scientific" language.

Funny, nobody really stops IDiots submitting papers for peer review. Nobody stops people posting at YoungCosmos.com either. Odd then how very few people do either.

FTK, do you think there is a Darwinist conspiricy stopping people being interested in YoungCosmos.COm? I mean, 2 posts a month, if that, in a forum that says of itself:
   
Quote
The discussion forum is a place for users to post topics of interest to them and to collaborate on long term projects.

So, no topics of interest and no collaboration on *any* long term projects. It then goes on to say
Quote
In a sense, this is the heart of the YoungCosmos mission to foster the conception and execution of cutting edge projects.

Then the heart is blackened and dead. Cutting edge projects? Name *one* FTK! Name a current cutting edge research project that might turn around IDC? Can you?

If there's no Darwinist conspiracy stopping people posting at youngcosmos.com what do you suppose the reason could be FTK? The reason nobody posts or appears interested in the "science" on offer?



--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:39   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,14:24)
Quote
Not an answer. Why should the DI be allowed to distribute propaganda related to this film when they didn't show up at Dover and when the DI heavyweights actually refused to be interviewed for the documentary?


ID reps did show up at the trial, and it's well documented why some of the DI fellows weren't there.  You're well aware of the situation, and I'm tired of repeating the same shit day in, day out.

Why wouldn't they take part in the documentary?

LOL...one word - NOVA.  

Quote
Please try again, rather than shift into your standard "we're so persecuted we won't even dare to try to publish" schtick. It won't work here.


Of course it won't work here.  Facts are usually dismissed in this neck of the woods.  But, hopefully those interested enough in evolution to watch the PBS flick will also attend "Expelled" in February.  That might provide them with a more well rounded view of the issues with regard to what the "scientific community" will and will not allow to be considered alongside their dogma.

"This film I haven't seen yet is more accurate than that program I haven't seen yet"

Impervious to knowledge.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:43   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Nov. 06 2007,14:26)
Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,14:24)
LOL...one word - NOVA.  


you say that like it means something. Explain? Is that your entire comment on that matter?

Well, since you are a Brit, you probably aren't aware that PBS (Public Broadcasting System) is a bastion of hippie, liberal, disembodied telic entity haters.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:43   

Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 06 2007,14:24)
 
Quote
Not an answer. Why should the DI be allowed to distribute propaganda related to this film when they didn't show up at Dover and when the DI heavyweights actually refused to be interviewed for the documentary?


ID reps did show up at the trial, and it's well documented why some of the DI fellows weren't there.  You're well aware of the situation, and I'm tired of repeating the same shit day in, day out.

Why wouldn't they take part in the documentary?

LOL...one word - NOVA.  

 
Quote
Please try again, rather than shift into your standard "we're so persecuted we won't even dare to try to publish" schtick. It won't work here.


Of course it won't work here.  Facts are usually dismissed in this neck of the woods.  But, hopefully those interested enough in evolution to watch the PBS flick will also attend "Expelled" in February.  That might provide them with a more well rounded view of the issues with regard to what the "scientific community" will and will not allow to be considered alongside their dogma.

Indeed, it is well documented. Despite DaveScot's crowing about how the case would turn out, Dembski was smart enough to bail when he saw that the ID side had no facts on their side. Facts, you know, are those things that are useful in court cases and publications. Unlike the same shit that you keep repeating day in, day out.

And "NOVA" is not an answer either. Are you implying that they are part of the vast Darwinist conspiracy?  If so, why did they ask the DI for interviews? Don't conspirators want their enemies to be kept in the dark?

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:53   

ftk dithered, after giggling and tossing her hair...
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knowing full well that it would be a cold day in hell before ID would be allowed in mainstream peer-reviewed journals


and the reason for that is.....

wait for it....

ID has nothing scientific to say!

Phillip Johnson admits it.
At times Berlinksi admits it.
Dembski has said this out of one side of his mouth.
Behe has said as much, at least in regards to being taught in school (note that he hasn't tried to publish anything in journals either)

And of course, as we keep pointing out to you, IDers can't even PUBLISH THEIR OWN GODDAM JOURNAL.  

impervious to knowledge.  what ID books do your kids read again?  No Free Lunch?  bwahahahaha

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2007,14:56   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Nov. 06 2007,14:43)
And "NOVA" is not an answer either. Are you implying that they are part of the vast Darwinist conspiracy?  If so, why did they ask the DI for interviews? Don't conspirators want their enemies to be kept in the dark?

Funny how expelled has an interview with mainstream Scientists (PZ etc) , even if under somewhat misstated pretenses yet the ID side are too afraid to interview even when it's made clear up front what the situation is and footage of the interview would be handed over.

It's almost like once side is unable to state its case if there's even the possibility of a awkward question being asked on camera. Whereas PZ and Dawkins can take on any question as they don't have to remember their lies.

Seeing any patterns here ? :)

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
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