Joined: Aug. 2005
|Quote (evopeach @ Oct. 04 2005,15:30)|
|Ultimately the ability of anyone including science teachers to present the ID argument will win because the fundamental principle is that of Free Speech and not the separation of church and state. The case of most merit is the Scopes Trial where it was not the separation argument but rather the denial of information and free speech that won the day.|
People in America understand that our strength lies in free speech because that is the critical tool that enables the marketplace of ideas to function in the public square.
If the ideas of ID are not meritorius in the eyes of the entirety of the student and adult population it will fade and die quickly, much more quickly than scientific theories which become intellectual protectorates, escounced and enthroned despite their faults and failings for reason of money (grant funding to study origins, for instance: rna first, protein first and enzyme first and dna first and clay first and silicon first, ad finitum); prestiege, tenure and textbook royalties to name a few.
If ID proves meritorius and practical upon application over time it deserves the full and complete attention of the scientific community as a superior explanation of the natural world.
The American people, the wisest and best in all the world, understand these things very well and that (not stupidity , ignorance, and religion) is the reason polls always and forever show that the great majority prefer that alternative explanations of the natrual world be given in science classes, by 2:1 margins.
The American people and their duly elected representatives and the courts are divided here but a strict constructionist supreme court , now an absolute certainty, will certainly take the view that free speech a clear and unmistakable right trumpts the recent and questionable hyperleft separation of state interpretation of the Warren oriented courts.
Maybe not at Dover but soon,very soon the elitest misquided dogmatic majority element of the scientific education community will be humbled by the will of the American people, their common sense, their experience with free speech and the open debate of ideas and on that day the Supreme Court will set the nation on a course to return to just such a preeminently important state of affairs.
There is always an argument against the presentation of alternatives ideas that oppose deeply held views by some powerful and well placed elite minority and they prevail at great expense to the majority in many ways for a while; but, it simply cannot be maintained in the face of the will of the people in our system forever and forever is one more confirmed appointment away.
I wouldn't bet on the next generation being quite so easily brainwashed as the last few have, they are familiar with snobbery, egomania, herding and such and they think quite well for themselves, thank you. All they need is access and a level playing field and they'll figure it out in a New York Minute.
That's why your team is whistleing past the graveyard as we speak... in desperate tones.
Free Speech? Let me use an analogy. If one goes to a French class, one is expected to learn French. If one is taught Latin instead, then one will fail the exam and the teacher has blundered. Similarly, if one goes to a Biology class, one is there to learn biology, and if one learns religion, one will fail the biology exam and the teacher has blundered.
Yes free speech is important, and the Creationists are allowed to spread their ideas in the appropriate place, which is not a science class. Just as there are restrictions of free speech, such as hate speech and shouting “Fire” in a crowded theater, there are restrictions on teaching religion in schools, and expectations of teaching the content of the subject in question, and not some other completely different subject.
As for the American people being the wisest and best in the world, well, Ye Gods and Little Fishes, they might be that, but they are certainly not the best educated. Fortunately, they are isolated amongst developed countries both in the strength of their religious convictions (they are the least secular of the developed world) and in their lack of education in science. And I must emphasize that in the broader context of worldwide Religion, it is only a minority cult in America that cannot understand, and hence rejects, evolution.
And minority scientific views are welcome, and if they prove correct after scientific analysis, they often win the Nobel prize, as shown this year and with Peter Mitchell and the chemi-osmotic theory (although personally, I believe the concept of vectorial proton translocation was equally important). In both cases the proponents allowed their scientific theories to be tested, and in the end their idea were validated. Just like evolution.
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip
I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands