Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Official Uncommonly Dense Discussion Thread

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:17

From here:

Quote

Latest Religious Messages
"This is a college education that I can use," said sophomore Emily Felts, 19, as she praised the homemaking curriculum of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas (which leads to a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities). Men and women may be equal, the school says, but they have different roles, and for women, that includes "how to set tables, sew buttons and sustain lively dinnertime conversation," or how to use the Internet to track grocery coupons, according to an October dispatch in the Los Angeles Times. Felts said she enjoys the work (except vacuuming), but it "doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the Bible says." [Los Angeles Times, 10-11-07]

Is this Dembski's college?

Turncoat

Posts: 129
Joined: Dec. 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:19

Gonzalez is an IDiot, but no idiot. He knew that he was destined either to a) gain tenure at a state-supported institution as a known ID advocate or b) sacrifice his career on the altar of intelligent design.

There has never been a losing outcome for the DI. One of its prime objectives is to rile the conservative-Christian rank-and-file. Given the low ebb of the ID tide, the DI gets more mileage out of a martyr than a tenured professor. The best of all scenarios for the DI is an extended sealing of the tomb, followed by a surprise ending in which the martyr emerges transfigured.

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I never give them hell. I just tell the truth about them, and they think it's hell. � Harry S Truman

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:19

Quote (Dazza McTrazza @ Dec. 05 2007,13:17)

From here:

Quote

Latest Religious Messages
"This is a college education that I can use," said sophomore Emily Felts, 19, as she praised the homemaking curriculum of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas (which leads to a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities). Men and women may be equal, the school says, but they have different roles, and for women, that includes "how to set tables, sew buttons and sustain lively dinnertime conversation," or how to use the Internet to track grocery coupons, according to an October dispatch in the Los Angeles Times. Felts said she enjoys the work (except vacuuming), but it "doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the Bible says." [Los Angeles Times, 10-11-07]

Is this Dembski's college?

Ya. Is that sweet or what?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

JohnW

Posts: 3217
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:20

Quote (C.J.O'Brien @ Dec. 05 2007,09:49)

He's openly hostile to the entire enterprise that he ostensibly applied to become a lifelong part of.

And that is why it's entirely reasonable for his views to be part of any discussion regarding tenure. In fact, that's probably not strong enough - it should be a necessary part of the discussion. �Not a deal-breaker, if he's able to compartmentalise his anti-science beliefs and do good work, but definitely something his reviewers ought to talk about.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"... The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

Dazza McTrazza

Posts: 10
Joined: April 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:25

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 05 2007,13:19)

Quote (Dazza McTrazza @ Dec. 05 2007,13:17)

From here:

� �

Quote

Latest Religious Messages
"This is a college education that I can use," said sophomore Emily Felts, 19, as she praised the homemaking curriculum of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas (which leads to a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities). Men and women may be equal, the school says, but they have different roles, and for women, that includes "how to set tables, sew buttons and sustain lively dinnertime conversation," or how to use the Internet to track grocery coupons, according to an October dispatch in the Los Angeles Times. Felts said she enjoys the work (except vacuuming), but it "doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the Bible says." [Los Angeles Times, 10-11-07]

Is this Dembski's college?

Ya. �Is that sweet or what?

Sweet? I remember thinking what a doss degree my friend was taking when he enrolled in Fire Safety Management at some po-dunk University in the Midlands. America always has to do things just a little bit bigger and stupider though, I guess.

Bob O'H

Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:26

Oink oink

Quote

As a litigator, getting to the facts of a matter is integral to my job, and it never ceases to amaze me the extent to which people will lie or deny the truth, even when they are under oath and even when everyone in the room (except apparently them) knows what�s going on.

Somehow I get the urge to start singing Vera Lynn hits.

Bob

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

J-Dog

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Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:30

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 05 2007,13:19)

Quote (Dazza McTrazza @ Dec. 05 2007,13:17)

From here:

�

Quote

Latest Religious Messages
"This is a college education that I can use," said sophomore Emily Felts, 19, as she praised the homemaking curriculum of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas (which leads to a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities). Men and women may be equal, the school says, but they have different roles, and for women, that includes "how to set tables, sew buttons and sustain lively dinnertime conversation," or how to use the Internet to track grocery coupons, according to an October dispatch in the Los Angeles Times. Felts said she enjoys the work (except vacuuming), but it "doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the Bible says." [Los Angeles Times, 10-11-07]

Is this Dembski's college?

Ya. �Is that sweet or what?

WARNING! �DO NOT SHOW THIS TO ERV OR KRISTINE!!!

(But yes, it's okay to show this to FTK.)

FWIW, my favorite line is teaching them to use the internet to track grocery coupons... beautiful.

edited: To correct, and because I can.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:43

You guys gotta get a load of this morphodyke thread. �She's spanking the IDiots for not having the proper viewpoint on the GG affair and a few of the IDiots refuse to assume the position.

Made me laff

http://www.uncommondescent.com/the-des....-153566

They start dog piling on people for not being the correct brand of christian too. Priceless tard.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Arden Chatfield

Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,13:46

Okay, which one of you smartasses is Allanius?

Quote

allanius
12/05/2007
2:01 pm
Stand up, Denyse, and continue standing up in spite of any tendency to despair as you contemplate a worldview in its death-throes.

You may well wonder how it is possible that genial crackpots like Carl Sagan and Paul Davies are welcomed with open arms in academia and given generous access to PBS and the Times while someone who makes an eminently reasonable inference of design from the fine-tuning of the universe is excluded as if he were some sort of freak.

The reason is that Modernism (and its rear-guard movement, Postmodernism) has obtained institutional status and become impervious to reason. If you think you are alone in your despair, consider those on the liberal arts side who must now endure an endless barrage of smug nihilism from hordes of self-absorbed dilettantes who obtained tenure by parroting the party line.

But the hardening of party lines can also be seen as a harbinger of better things to come. The same academics who thought of themselves as radicals and lovers of freedom thirty years ago have now become reactionaries, as the famous emails make clear. And at that point the difference between dogma and reality becomes too obvious to ignore.

The old paradigm is already dead. The intransigence you identified is restricted to a few small and shrinking islands. We may feel frustrated by the dogmatism of the universities and the media, but old bastions of materialism like the Times and PBS are rapidly losing influence for that very reason�because they are unable to change.

They are hardening their lines of defense, but they cannot stop the change that is being wrought through discoveries in basic science. Materialism cannot stand for long when it must manufacture multiple universes in order to account for the orderliness of our own. The same weight that makes its intransigence possible will also cause it to topple over.

I'm waiting... :angry:

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,14:00

Barrya the lawyer introduces nazis and pigs to the GG fiasco. Details at 10

no-one-ever-admits-they-are-a-nazi-pig

And no I am not making this shit up.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

J-Dog

Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,14:20

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 05 2007,14:00)

Barrya the lawyer introduces nazis and pigs to the GG fiasco. �Details at 10

no-one-ever-admits-they-are-a-nazi-pig

And no I am not making this shit up.

I thought Barry A was talking about that Idiot Bill Buckingham at the Dover Trial:

"And you know what else I�ve learned? �There is actually a great benefit when a witness denies an obvious truth. �If the jury catches them doing that just once, they lose all credibility and nothing they say from that point on makes any difference to the case. "

Yep, sounds like Dover not Nuremburg to me. �Danke Shoen Herr Stubanfuhrer Barry.

"not edited" added in edit

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,14:27

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 05 2007,13:46)

I'm waiting... :angry:

HAR HAR THIS IS YOU:

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

bystander

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,14:44

We forget that the DI doesn't ever actually do anything except write press releases. They piked out of Dover and they were going to sue over the Nova program. I think they are stupid enough to think that ISU will quietly negotiate a settlement with GG.

GG himself is quiet in all this. I wonder if the DI went to him and said don't worry we'll talk to ISU and try and get you tenure. GG thinking that there'll be some quiet high level negotiations.

However, he opens his paper and is currently saying WTF!!!!111!!one.

Denyse is pushing the persecution card a little strongly lately isn't she. maybe nobody is buying her books.

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,14:49

Does ID predict THIS:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/12/03/chimp.memory.ap/index.html

Looks like "the privileged mammal" wont be made..

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Annyday

Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:12

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 05 2007,09:37)

So let me see if I have this straight... Gonzalez should have the academic freedom to call most of the scientists in the world whackjobs for believing in "Darwinism", but his fellow faculty members have no academic freedom to discuss amongst themselves IDC as an antiscience position that doesn't do credit to their institution?

That seems to be about where the DI is playing this.

Yes.

Intelligent Design is science and a scientific issue when promoting it to nonscientists in church basements. However, when in the presence of other scientists Intelligent Design is a private, personal issue, and thus ridiculing it is persecution and intolerance. Doublethink is fun!

I think most observers pick up immediately on the "veiled" meanings of "persecution" and "intolerance"- it means it's religious. Nobody ever speaks about being intolerant to a scientific view, but it wouldn't sell as a public appeal to the conservative Christian crowd if they weren't using all the trappings of religion.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Erasmus, FCD

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:12

Sally_T keeps on trying to get an answer.

Quote

What is the legal basis of the challenge to ISU? Will it be religious discrimination? If so I could see that being a problem in the long run, although it might get GG a seat in the faculty.

If it is not religious discrimination, then what? It seems that the funding/graduate student success rate/ publication record issue is a pretty tough obstacle, and that the best chance GG has is to argue that his religious beliefs were held in contempt by the faculty voting on his tenure.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell.�Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

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Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:29

Someone doesn't understand 'tenure'

http://www.uncommondescent.com/the-des....-153619

Quote

29

russ

12/05/2007

4:22 pm
Sally_T: Here�s more info http://www.evolutionnews.org/

I don�t know what the basis of a lawsuit would be, but since GG is a government employee, I assume the University is required to go through some due process before letting him go (denying tenure). If they conspired beforehand, or violated their own standards, then perhaps there�s been an unlawful termination. There ought to be some kind of equal protection for government employees, I would think.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:34

Joseph is an interesting guy

Quote

Also there isn�t one peer-reviewed paper that can account for the physiological and anatomical differences observed between allegedly closely related species, such as humans and chimps.

The premise that we share a common ancestor with chimps cannot even be tested.

see for yourself

With insight like his ToE doesn't stand a chance. You biology, sciency guys better start looking for work.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

Annyday

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Joined: Nov. 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:34

... I'm continually awed by the idea that it's "discrimination" to judge a scientist by their scientific views.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

J-Dog

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Joined: Dec. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:37

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 05 2007,15:34)

Joseph is an interesting guy

Quote

Also there isn�t one peer-reviewed paper that can account for the physiological and anatomical differences observed between allegedly closely related species, such as humans and chimps.

The premise that we share a common ancestor with chimps cannot even be tested.

see for yourself

With insight like his ToE doesn't stand a chance. �You biology, sciency guys better start looking for work.

Deep cover puppet? Can anyone really be that stupid?

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

BopDiddy

Posts: 71
Joined: Nov. 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:42

Let's hear it for getawitness:

Quote

12/05/2007
12:01 pm

Yeah, well, thanks for that advice, Denyse, but I�m not advertising anything.

Annyday

Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:42

Ah, ah. This from Denyse;

Quote

In other words, when Carl Sagan said that Earth is a pale blue dot lost somewhere in the cosmos, he was simply incorrect. But he reprsents "science", right?

Gonzalez is correct - but he represents "religion", supposedly.

So an incorrect account of Earth's position is science and a correct account is religion?

Oh, but wait a minute - the next move will be the claim that whatever Gonzalez demonstrated doesn't prove anything after all, and even talking about it is "religion", which is not allowed - so bye bye career.

We may reach the point in my own lifetime when one really must turn to religion ("religion?") in order to get a correct account of basic facts about our planet and to science ("science"?) for propaganda and witch hunts.

actually explains everything. Gonzalez was RIGHT, and that's why everyone who thinks he's not right about everything is screwing up.

The argument from "I'm right about everything" sure is interesting... actually, technically this is just really unsubtle begging of the question, by inserting Gonzalez being right about everything into the premises needed to conclude that everyone who is against him is wrong.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:42

I'm resubmitting all my failed exams based on viewpoint discrimination..

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Kristine

Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,15:58

Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 05 2007,12:30)

�

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 05 2007,13:19)

� �

Quote (Dazza McTrazza @ Dec. 05 2007,13:17)

From here:

Quote

Latest Religious Messages
"This is a college education that I can use," said sophomore Emily Felts, 19, as she praised the homemaking curriculum of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas (which leads to a Bachelor of Arts in Humanities). Men and women may be equal, the school says, but they have different roles, and for women, that includes "how to set tables, sew buttons and sustain lively dinnertime conversation," or how to use the Internet to track grocery coupons, according to an October dispatch in the Los Angeles Times. Felts said she enjoys the work (except vacuuming), but it "doesn't matter what I think. It matters what the Bible says." [Los Angeles Times, 10-11-07]

Is this Dembski's college?

Ya. �Is that sweet or what?

WARNING! �DO NOT SHOW THIS TO ERV OR KRISTINE!!!

(But yes, it's okay to show this to FTK.)

FWIW, my favorite line is teaching them to use the internet to track grocery coupons... beautiful.

edited: �To correct, and because I can.

J-Dog, step aside and let Mr. Christopher take his medicine.

Mr. Christopher. This almost happened to Arden the last time he ate my cookies.

Elf Finger Found In Box of Keebler Cookies

I'm just saying.

"Police explain that elves grow in size [emphasis mine] once they leave the magic tree."

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

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oldmanintheskydidntdoit

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Joined: July 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,16:07

BarryA has timing.

Quote

There is actually a great benefit when a witness denies an obvious truth. If the jury catches them doing that just once, they lose all credibility and nothing they say from that point on makes any difference to the case. I advise my clients that if there is a damaging fact, just fess up and move on.

Behe at Dover:

Quote

Q I want to ask you some section -- ask you some questions about some sections of this. Here is the first one. "Students are told of the theory of intelligent design, ID. Isn't ID simply religion in disguise? No, the theory of intelligent design involves science versus science, where scientists, looking at the same data, come to different conclusions. The theory does not mention or discuss God, Christianity, or the Bible in any way."

Is that accurate?

A That's exactly right. It's completely accurate.

Dembski:

Quote

�Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John�s Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory.�

Touchstone, a Christian magazine in an article in a section titled �Design, Metaphysics, & Beyond.�
ENV Spins that like so

Quote

Clearly Dembski is looking at design in a much broader context for a Christian audience, "beyond" its formulation as a science.

So beyond Design is a Christian god...nice.
http://www.evolutionnews.org/2006...._1.html

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger�s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

Albatrossity2

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Joined: Mar. 2007

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,16:10

Quote (J-Dog @ Dec. 05 2007,15:37)

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 05 2007,15:34)

Joseph is an interesting guy

Quote

Also there isn�t one peer-reviewed paper that can account for the physiological and anatomical differences observed between allegedly closely related species, such as humans and chimps.

The premise that we share a common ancestor with chimps cannot even be tested.

see for yourself

With insight like his ToE doesn't stand a chance. You biology, sciency guys better start looking for work.

Deep cover puppet? Can anyone really be that stupid?

If it's a cover, it a consistent one. Joseph (aka JoeG) has tarded it up on several acres of the blogosphere, including his own site, the ironically named Intelligent Reasoning.

I like the typo in this comment, the "design indference". That's sorta how i feel about it most days...

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
� � � � � � � � � � � � - Pattiann Rogers

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Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,16:50

We finally got past "wah wah Baylor" and now we have "Wah wah G.G." UD - keep it Fresh please, don't linger on one subject too long.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

N.Wells

Posts: 1836
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,17:56

And meanwhile, over at Overwhelming Evidence

Quote

# "Though we know little about
2 weeks 5 days ago

# Easter Eggs?
2 weeks 5 days ago

# A thought about Primates - Human or Otherwise
2 weeks 5 days ago

# ID for schools
2 weeks 6 days ago

# Read It Again
5 weeks 6 days ago

# Pat I don't think your
6 weeks 5 hours ago

# What is the difference
6 weeks 12 hours ago

carlsonjok

Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Dec. 05 2007,18:01

I am �not sure what is most interesting about Dembski's latest post about the amazon.com reviews for "The Design of Life."

Maybe it is that at least 3 of the 9 positive reviews are by direct Dembski associates (Michael Polanyi Center cohort Bruce L. Gordon, �Discovery Institute chum Casey Luskin, and UD contributor idnet.com.au). And who knows about the ubiquituous, but anonymous, "Darwin Researcher" in London. (Is that you, Louis?)

Or perhaps that the two reviews from Italy and Denmark were posted on November 22, only 3 days after the book was released. Those are some FedEx paying, speed reading dudes!

Or maybe that while he is using Amazon to market his book, he is sending interested parties to the FTE website to actually buy it.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. �We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Lou FCD

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