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Alan Fox



Posts: 1402
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,09:51   

Quote
Which means I'm going to have to wait longer for my richly deserved apology I suppose.


It may just be an oversight ??? Nobody's perfect.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,10:24   

Quote (Alan Fox @ July 18 2008,15:51)
Quote
Which means I'm going to have to wait longer for my richly deserved apology I suppose.


It may just be an oversight ??? Nobody's perfect.

Nobody's perfect?

Are you calling my mother a liar?

;-)

I'm well aware that nobody's perfect being as I am one of the least perfect people on the planet. I think it's not exactly a big ask to hope that someone who: a) has not dealt with someone else's arguments as they are stated, b) chuck demonstrably erroneous accusations of bigotry about, and c) claims (quite rightly in many cases) to be an exponent of reason, can apologise when they fuck up. I know I do, but then I'm not perfect, see above!

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1402
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,10:41   

I don't dispute a) or b), but I would like a link to an example of c) :D. I am experiencing a slight feeling of déjà-vu with Lenny and his reluctance to admit the possibility of an error. I also wonder whether Gary actually realises there is an outstanding issue. So, don't lose any sleep over it. I put Gary in the same folder as John Kwok.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,12:03   

Quote (Alan Fox @ July 18 2008,16:41)
I don't dispute a) or b), but I would like a link to an example of c) :D. I am experiencing a slight feeling of déjà-vu with Lenny and his reluctance to admit the possibility of an error. I also wonder whether Gary actually realises there is an outstanding issue. So, don't lose any sleep over it. I put Gary in the same folder as John Kwok.

LOL I'll remind him, I'm just that type of prick! ;-)

Only Kidding.

I think Good ol' Gazza's not too bad a sort, and I'll get right on finding that link for you...annnnny day now! Same folder as JK? Harsh and IMO a little unfair.

I just love everybody.....hey, this beer's actually kinda good. Merry POETS day to everyone, I'm off to the boozer!

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,12:59   

Quote
Do you have any concrete evidence of the negative consequences you mention? Do you have any evidence of the "enormous hit" 1-800-Flowers' credibility has taken? Or is your support for both just anecdotal?


How about an overnight 12% ($17m) drop in market value?

which recovered after 1800Flowers took prompt and appropriate action.

As for equating this to 'tyranny and torture', I don't think this is in any way an apt comparison.  I think the actions are reasonable and appropriate.  She is not being whipped, waterboarded, deported or even imprisoned. She has lost a job.  It happens all the time for considerably less justification than this.

If my actions or negligence ever cause my company's stock to drop a 12% overnight, I think I might reasonably expect to lose my job too.

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Krubozumo Nyankoye



Posts: 15
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 18 2008,21:59   

My my what a complex issue and extended web of ramifications.

Let me briefly restate some of the key points, I will try to be concise and inclusive.

Myer's hears of this incident and blogs on it.
Donohue sees Myer's blog and issues a fatwa.
Myer's counter attacks issuing a solicitation for hosts to desecrate.
All hell breaks loose and Myer's web traffic goes through the roof.
A hand full of people commit felonies via death threat.
One of them is actually pinned by their utter stupidity and fired by their employer.
The insanity persists in terms of new threats still being issued today to the effect, this will not be over until we get you fired.

There may be more but I am not a fast reader and I do not have a particularly fast connection, the only reason I can even keep up with some of this is that my real work is on hold for the moment waiting for a drill chuck.

From my remote perspective one has to wonder has the world gone completely bonkers?

Myers in my opinion has done a good thing, he has exposed the utter inanity of the premise that religion should be above critiscism.  Religion is nothing but elaborately codified superstition and as such should not have a voice, let alone an influence on public discourse, let alone global resource management. Yet it still does.

All accusations of bigotry are false in that Myers does not decry catholocism alone but all religions collectively, he is after all just an atheist. No god, no gods. Its all bunkum and fraud. And that is the real issue, the godbots are incensed because their "belief" is being exposed as a cheap fraud.

Religion is the perfect scam of course, look at the history of scientology, they managed to coerce the IRS into submission and no more patently deliberate con game could be imagined.

Of course Myers would by now be served with several lawsuits, subject to a character assassination campaign and dealing with other kinds of intimidation if he had been so audacious as to desecrate an E-meter. The scientologists are not as stupid or crude as the catholic police, they never make direct death threats, but they will kill you if they can find a way.

It is all about believing in higher laws than the laws of man. So it is also easy to flaunt the laws of man. Murder, terrorism, anything is justified because you have been informed from the spirit world that your action is righteous.

Who can deny it? You heard the voice of god in your head and he said - invade Iraq.

Frankly I am seriously dissapointed with the response of the people here and on other blogs and in general that they make such contorted and bizarre excuses for the patently ridiculous claims of the zealots and con men.  

I just lurk for the most part and observe what transpires. But in this instance I see a serious weakness and flaw in the overall conception of empiricism.  

Louis - you have contributed a degree of reasonableness to all of this that is admirable. I travel back and forth to West Africa through London, perhaps we could meet up on one of my layovers?  I do igneous petrology. And actually, smelling like a dead badger after four months in the bush would be a good thing.

To the rest, please get a grip. Its just a cracker!

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,03:03   

Quote (Quidam @ July 18 2008,18:59)
Quote
Do you have any concrete evidence of the negative consequences you mention? Do you have any evidence of the "enormous hit" 1-800-Flowers' credibility has taken? Or is your support for both just anecdotal?


How about an overnight 12% ($17m) drop in market value?

which recovered after 1800Flowers took prompt and appropriate action.

As for equating this to 'tyranny and torture', I don't think this is in any way an apt comparison.  I think the actions are reasonable and appropriate.  She is not being whipped, waterboarded, deported or even imprisoned. She has lost a job.  It happens all the time for considerably less justification than this.

If my actions or negligence ever cause my company's stock to drop a 12% overnight, I think I might reasonably expect to lose my job too.

Wow! Good one! 12% eh? Sheesh! I'm happy to believe that events went as you say, i.e. this 12% drop is due to this event and nothing else. I'm sufficiently economically illiterate to give that the benefit of the doubt! Out of curiosity, did 1-800-Flowers perform differently to similar companies that day? I.e. is this drop in market value directly attributable to this event or is it an issue of coincidence, or perhaps correlation not being causation?

I wasn't equating her job loss to tyranny and torture, I was equating the justification you were using for acceding to the wishes of the appropriate authorities in this case for the justification of acceding to the wishes of appropriate authorities in other cases. I think that was abundantly clear from what I wrote before.

Anyway, since I haven't disputed the factual justification for her job loss (at the very least her job loss could be justified on the basis of following 1-800-Flowers' internal rules, as I've noted) and have been making an entirely seperate point about mob behaviour and its justification, I wonder when you're going to get round to dealing with those points.

Cheers

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,03:10   

Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 19 2008,03:59)
[SNIP]

Louis - you have contributed a degree of reasonableness to all of this that is admirable. I travel back and forth to West Africa through London, perhaps we could meet up on one of my layovers?  I do igneous petrology. And actually, smelling like a dead badger after four months in the bush would be a good thing.

[/SNIP]

Well that's the first time THAT'S ever been said! ;-)

When I can pry myself away from work, I am always up for a beer. And practising the obscure West Fante (sp?) swear words and benedictions I learned from a Ghanaian ex-colleague of course.

At the moment I'm trying to get out of going to France on business so I can go to Edinburgh and meet Albatrossity at the end of this month. A general, all comers, London AtBC meet up is not at all a bad idea. No idea WHEN I'll be able to do it (bit of a workaholic tbh) but it should be possible. There's a dedicated thread for this malarky somewhere.

Igneous Petrology? Weren't they a 70s prog rock band ;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,06:00   

Quote (Louis @ July 19 2008,03:03)
Quote (Quidam @ July 18 2008,18:59)
 
Quote
Do you have any concrete evidence of the negative consequences you mention? Do you have any evidence of the "enormous hit" 1-800-Flowers' credibility has taken? Or is your support for both just anecdotal?


How about an overnight 12% ($17m) drop in market value?

which recovered after 1800Flowers took prompt and appropriate action.

As for equating this to 'tyranny and torture', I don't think this is in any way an apt comparison.  I think the actions are reasonable and appropriate.  She is not being whipped, waterboarded, deported or even imprisoned. She has lost a job.  It happens all the time for considerably less justification than this.

If my actions or negligence ever cause my company's stock to drop a 12% overnight, I think I might reasonably expect to lose my job too.

Wow! Good one! 12% eh? Sheesh! I'm happy to believe that events went as you say, i.e. this 12% drop is due to this event and nothing else. I'm sufficiently economically illiterate to give that the benefit of the doubt! Out of curiosity, did 1-800-Flowers perform differently to similar companies that day? I.e. is this drop in market value directly attributable to this event or is it an issue of coincidence, or perhaps correlation not being causation?

Well, this incident (obviously) and probably also due to Goldman Sachs downgrading their rating on the stock.  But, surely that latter thing could of only contributed 1 or 2%.  ;)

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,07:01   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 19 2008,12:00)
[SNIP]

Well, this incident (obviously) and probably also due to Goldman Sachs downgrading their rating on the stock.  But, surely that latter thing could of only contributed 1 or 2%.  ;)

Interesting. Thanks Carlson. I'm a self confessed (again!) economic illiterate. I know very very little about the stock market and what have you. Sadly I have only one lifetime to learn stuff in and it seems that there's a lot to be getting on with!

Cheers

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2157
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,12:15   

Apology? You want an Apology?

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,13:01   

Quote (Dr.GH @ July 19 2008,18:15)
Apology? You want an Apology?

Stunning!

Consider it not only accepted but you get at least three free completely unfounded accusations for the future.

Cheers

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2157
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,15:20   

Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 18 2008,19:59)
And actually, smelling like a dead badger after four months in the bush would be a good thing.

I found that Baby Wipes (eg brand-name "Huggies") took good care of most wash-up needs in extended dry camps. They had the advantage of not wasting water, and burning quite nicely when they had dried out- making a good fire tinder and cutting down on site waste. I would take 500 sheets /10 crew members /2 weeks. Stinking clothes were still a problem. In a dry camp, I had my crew use a basin of clean water to rinse soap from dishes. (Two crew / 10 stayed in camp each day on a cleaning detail and also to get some rest). After the dishes were done, they would use the rinse water for washing out socks, etc...

I suspect you are better funded than we were.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Krubozumo Nyankoye



Posts: 15
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,21:38   

Quote (Dr.GH @ July 19 2008,13:20)
 
Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 18 2008,19:59)
And actually, smelling like a dead badger after four months in the bush would be a good thing.

I found that Baby Wipes (eg brand-name "Huggies") took good care of most wash-up needs in extended dry camps. They had the advantage of not wasting water, and burning quite nicely when they had dried out- making a good fire tinder and cutting down on site waste. I would take 500 sheets /10 crew members /2 weeks. Stinking clothes were still a problem. In a dry camp, I had my crew use a basin of clean water to rinse soap from dishes. (Two crew / 10 stayed in camp each day on a cleaning detail and also to get some rest). After the dishes were done, they would use the rinse water for washing out socks, etc...

<quote>I suspect you are better funded than we were.

Well, on paper that may be true (better funded) but by the time the money reaches us it has been thinned considerably.

Personal hygene and camp protocols are pretty well established, I have worked with the same groups of men for the most part for the past 4 years, consistency is good. Clothing is just expendable, it rots no matter what you do. One priority is to take care of your feet.  I was kind of jesting about the dead badger image, but you wouldn't doubt it at all if you met me when I have just come from the bush. Maybe I should have said I smell like dead curried badger?  

I am not in Africa at the moment else I would not be able to access the net at all. I will probably go back at the end of the year and stay until April or May. Right now I am in Brazil doing the same kind of thing but under much better conditions, it is dry season but it is not dry. We have an office in a small town where I have a sort of lab, I spend two out of ten days there when possible, it depends on whether there is anything in the cores to look at. Its still the bush but you can have hot water if the generator works. Hopefully I will get out of here by the end of September.

What I do is not "research" in any strict sense though I try to keep things honest across the board. In industry it is referred to as "exploration". As one of my clients famously said, " we don't want research, we want facts!".  I wish it were that easy.

Cheers,

  
Krubozumo Nyankoye



Posts: 15
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,22:16   

Quote (Louis @ July 19 2008,01:10)
Quote (Krubozumo Nyankoye @ July 19 2008,03:59)
[SNIP]

Louis - you have contributed a degree of reasonableness to all of this that is admirable. I travel back and forth to West Africa through London, perhaps we could meet up on one of my layovers?  I do igneous petrology. And actually, smelling like a dead badger after four months in the bush would be a good thing.

[/SNIP]

Well that's the first time THAT'S ever been said! ;-)

When I can pry myself away from work, I am always up for a beer. And practising the obscure West Fante (sp?) swear words and benedictions I learned from a Ghanaian ex-colleague of course.

At the moment I'm trying to get out of going to France on business so I can go to Edinburgh and meet Albatrossity at the end of this month. A general, all comers, London AtBC meet up is not at all a bad idea. No idea WHEN I'll be able to do it (bit of a workaholic tbh) but it should be possible. There's a dedicated thread for this malarky somewhere.

Igneous Petrology? Weren't they a 70s prog rock band ;-)

Louis

Well I have not spent much time in Ghana, just touch and go flights on dubious airlines to get to other places.

I know a little Loma, and less Krau.  I know a little Creole ala Sierra Leone and I know a bit of the patois of Guinea. Likewise I have some exposure to the patoise of Zaire, a vague familiarity with afrikanes,  and a passing familiarity with a bit of ethnic portuguese. But I am a pathetically inadequate linguist. I have enough trouble just with english.

Regarding a meet up, most likely case is that I would be heading for Africa near the end of the year, hard to give any exact dates but let's say late Dec. or early Jan.  I would put in for leeway to layover for two days in London. I might get it, I might not. I have three locations I tend to frequent. Earl's court,
if I have the big budget, the King's Head is a good pub with
expats from everywhere. There are plenty of good places to eat.  If I am on a severe budget, I stay in Bromley, close to Down House. At a little B & B run by a Potuguese couple.  I have some friends there too, who are from Peru. In between I might go out and stay at Hove. I had a good friend who lived
there and I often visited with but he died in 2006.  Still I like the area and its a short train ride.

Rock band? no way, rappers yes.

Its in the rocks
you takes your knocks
get tight my man
its an alluvial fan
or volcanic or sediment
you jus can't claim impediment

We like the pretty pictures they make too.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2157
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,22:33   

I was lead on a desert archaeology survey. We were documenting a 520 acre section with several ceremonial and village sites.  With little to no soil building for the last 1,200 years, and a very fragile soil, we obviously couldn’t camp too near any specific job site.

Every 6 days, my crew supposedly washed out a week's worth of socks, and underwear as part of their camp detail. We could only fund about 4 weeks per year, and so the project took about ~5 years. I have seen several field projects collapse due to hepatitis, or just plain drunkenness. I always run field work with careful attention to the “hotel” aspect as well as the science.

If you need a rather well-worn crewman who is a great camp cook, make an offer. (Anything is better than finishing this book!)

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 19 2008,23:19   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 19 2008,05:00)
Well, this incident (obviously) and probably also due to Goldman Sachs downgrading their rating on the stock.  But, surely that latter thing could of only contributed 1 or 2%.  ;)

OK I retract that.  I wasn't aware of the coincidental downgrading by GS.

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,02:10   

Rock band?  Howzabout rock banded iron formations!!

Ok, ok, ok, once again, terrible joke, I know.

:)

p.s. I am currently a geology major at UWEC.

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,06:04   

Quote
I found that Baby Wipes (eg brand-name "Huggies") took good care of most wash-up needs in extended dry camps.

Is this part of some sort of field camp universal knowledge base?

I found out about baby wipes when put in charge of buying supplies for a field project in nevada.  Had a rough guide of how much food and other supplies to buy for an average of 25 people over a 12 week period, and came to ... "baby wipes?  baby wipes?".   I was assured of their necessity and, indeed, they are good!

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,10:28   

Quote (jeffox @ July 20 2008,01:10)
Rock band?  Howzabout rock banded iron formations!!

Ok, ok, ok, once again, terrible joke, I know.

:)

p.s. I am currently a geology major at UWEC.

Garnet! What a lode of fuchsite, that joke was the schist.

As my girlfriend said, when I asked if she was cummingtonite: "You mineral the same"

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,10:36   

Quote (Quidam @ July 20 2008,16:28)
Quote (jeffox @ July 20 2008,01:10)
Rock band?  Howzabout rock banded iron formations!!

Ok, ok, ok, once again, terrible joke, I know.

:)

p.s. I am currently a geology major at UWEC.

Garnet! What a lode of fuchsite, that joke was the schist.

As my girlfriend said, when I asked if she was cummingtonite: "You mineral the same"

OH NOES PUN CASCADE!

Unfortunately I can't be bothered with geology jokes, geologists are sufficient, so instead I shall go for snide mockery.

Oh yeah. Well....FELDSPAR YOURSELVES!

There. Consider yourselves mocked.

WRITHE IN SHAME DAMN YOU!

Louis

P.S. Waitress. Veal. All week. Damn Quidam used cummingtonite before I could.

P.P.S. At least I laugh at my own jokes, I'm something of a self-exciting dynamo in that regard. I find it a good stress relief. Others should feel free to talus how they stop going mantle.

P.P.P.S. Ok so I couldn't resist.

--------------
Bye.

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,10:59   

That wasn't very gneiss. I'll graben the bull by the hornblende and hope I don't get horst by my own petard.

Igneous is bliss for the UD crowd because they take design for granite.  That's sedimentary my dear FtK.

BTW I'm a mining engineer, we're on a level below the rest.

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,12:03   

Ya ya, you know I like magna 'cuz magnatite.  :)

An igneous rock hasn't learned anything yet.  A sedimentary rock just sits there watching television.  A metamorphic rock knows morph casually.  :)

I grew up in a town built by a taconite operation.  If you're interested in northeastern Minnesota's latest mining craze, check out Franconiaminerals website or google Polymet's "Birch Lake project".  Tell 'em that I sent ya, cuz I'll do anything to get a job back home so I CAN GO FISHING EVERY SINGLE FUCKING DAY for the rest of my life.   :)

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,12:16   

If you fish on the fucking days, when do you fuck?

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,13:04   

Quote (Quidam @ July 20 2008,18:16)
If you fish on the fucking days, when do you fuck?

Ahhhh one of life's BIG questions.

Like for example: "If a man speaks in a wood and no woman hears him, is he still wrong?".

Lou FCD provided an elegant solution to this 2 years ago, but it is merely one amongst many possible solutions. All of which seem to have the answer "Yes" according to my wife, but for a series of very different reasons.

Louis

P.S. Fish on the fucking days, fuck on the fishing days. And they say men can't multitask.....

--------------
Bye.

  
EyeNoU



Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,13:56   

Most geologists I know are tuff, gneiss, and a little wacke.

  
Robert O'Brien



Posts: 348
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 20 2008,21:03   

Quote (Quidam @ July 18 2008,12:59)
Quote
Do you have any concrete evidence of the negative consequences you mention? Do you have any evidence of the "enormous hit" 1-800-Flowers' credibility has taken? Or is your support for both just anecdotal?


How about an overnight 12% ($17m) drop in market value?

which recovered after 1800Flowers took prompt and appropriate action.

As for equating this to 'tyranny and torture', I don't think this is in any way an apt comparison.  I think the actions are reasonable and appropriate.  She is not being whipped, waterboarded, deported or even imprisoned. She has lost a job.  It happens all the time for considerably less justification than this.

If my actions or negligence ever cause my company's stock to drop a 12% overnight, I think I might reasonably expect to lose my job too.

Hey, dude, there is this kick ass bridge I'd like to sell you!

--------------
Caeli enarrant gloriam Dei

    
digitus impudicus



Posts: 62
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 23 2008,22:52   

Just an FYI, and to bump this thread back up, PZ put up a new post about crackergate.

  
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