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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Miracles as an argument for theism

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Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,01:11    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,01:06) My contention is, based upon these posts, you guys aren't capable of discussing theism or miracles in any objective manner.  My suggestion is you go back and learn something about those topics before you begin to spout off. Seems pretty straight forward to me. and my contention, based on your posting history, is you can't find your arse with both hands. Sacred text, not so good... BUT YOU CAN HAS MAGICS!!111 -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,01:33    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,00:44) I forgot that book that Da Vinci wrote, how stupid of me! Maybe he just did the comic book version. Look, if you guys are going to bash, at least have a clue as to what it is that you're actually bashing, just a suggestion.  It looks awful hypocritical to get on me for referring to a particular incarnation of God and then continue to bash that very same incarnation.  My suggestion is if you're going to bash a Judeo-Christian incarnation learn something about it first so you can at least present valid points rather than this third-grade nonsense you guys keep throwing around. Should I ask my question a third time? Why is your interpretation of 'Judeo-Christian incarnation' right and those of others wrong? Quote My contention is, based upon these posts, you guys aren't capable of discussing theism or miracles in any objective manner.  My suggestion is you go back and learn something about those topics before you begin to spout off. You're right. If only we knew exactly what you know about unicorns, we'd see that in fact they make very good sense. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,01:36    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 26 2008,23:44) I forgot that book that Da Vinci wrote, how stupid of me! Maybe he just did the comic book version. Look, if you guys are going to bash, at least have a clue as to what it is that you're actually bashing, just a suggestion.  It looks awful hypocritical to get on me for referring to a particular incarnation of God and then continue to bash that very same incarnation.  My suggestion is if you're going to bash a Judeo-Christian incarnation learn something about it first so you can at least present valid points rather than this third-grade nonsense you guys keep throwing around. This reminds me of a caller-in to the radio show who asked, "Just exactly what is it that you atheists don't believe in?" Uh... Uhhhhh... What ya got? I said he could say so if he's out of ideas, Skeptic. Until then, yep, you're right, we'd have no idea. Probably for a really good reason. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,01:37    Quote My suggestion is if you're going to bash a Judeo-Christian incarnation learn something about it first so you can at least present valid points rather than this third-grade nonsense you guys keep throwing around. You're right. Mea maxima culpa. Please explain to us then, since you're the only one here who can, why Jesus only appears on tortillas in Catholic countries. I'm sure there's a very sound theological reason that I'm just ignorant of, given my third grade edumacation. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,03:01    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,07:06) My contention is, based upon these posts, you guys aren't capable of discussing theism or miracles in any objective manner.  My suggestion is you go back and learn something about those topics before you begin to spout off. Seems pretty straight forward to me. You're saying this to a group of people a) far more knowledgable, b) far more educated and c) far more intelligent on and about any topic, including theism, than you are. Something demonstrated time and time again. No one needs a caricature of one specific god concept to be ludicrous to lack a belief in it. Is it still possible you have no idea what atheism is or indeed what belief itself is? {Slaps forehead} Look who I'm asking. Of course you remain clueless. Well done Skeptic. Louis P.S. If you're going to whine, spew crap, miss the point and generally derail someone else's thread then let me take this opportunity to remind you you have an exisiting thread, dedicated to you defending and defining your beliefs, on which you have a myriad of unanswered questions waiting. -------------- Bye.

bystander Posts: 301 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,06:36    I think that you miss the point. The idea that my religion is true and all other religions are false is a relatively recent thing. Before this I think that most people believed that their god and everybody else's god were real, so having a god that could do cooler miracles than somebody else's god was an advantage.

hereoisreal Posts: 745 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,06:37    Quote (hereoisreal @ Feb. 26 2008,21:45) Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 26 2008,20:55) zero is there such a thing as a 'law' of nature? if so then how are such laws broken? if not, then how do you know the lights will come on when you flip the switch? Eras, I know nothing about natural law or "laws of nature", and very little about the laws of physics. I wrote: ************************ The order of creation is as follows: Verse 3 light Verse 8 heaven (home) Verse 10 earth (footstool) **************************** When I posted the above on "Google talk origins", someone posted,"You err." and he quoted where God said,"I create darkness and I create light." While taking a break, I jotted down my reply on a scratch pad: "It's simple. He turns off the light." I walked into my computer room to post, turned on the switch and the light bulb blew. ********************* Miracle, chance, or act of nature? 1Ki 20:30 But the rest fled to Aphek, into the city; and [there] a wall fell upon twenty and seven thousand of the men [that were] left. Zero Happy Birthday Erasmus. Zero -------------- 360  miracles and more at: http://www.hereoisreal.com/....eal.com Great news. God’s wife is pregnant! (Rev. 12:5) It's not over till the fat lady sings! (Isa. 54:1 & Zec 9:9)

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,08:39    Quote (bystander @ Feb. 27 2008,12:36) I think that you miss the point. The idea that my religion is true and all other religions are false is a relatively recent thing. Before this I think that most people believed that their god and everybody else's god were real, so having a god that could do cooler miracles than somebody else's god was an advantage. While I'm not sure how accurate this is, it's certainly a good point. The major quibble I'd have is "define relatively recently". Monotheistic religions have been around for millenia, and certainly they coexisted (in some cases definitively started from) polytheistic religions, but the "one true god" claim is not a new one. Even amongst polytheistic religions that acknowledge the existence of many gods (like for example Hinduism) there are still sects who argue and fight about the correct manner to venerate each god, and even sometimes which gods to venerate at all. Sure one of the ways this could be "decided" was the "cooler miracles" route, but this sort of thing was as transparent then as it is now. Many ancient writers from a variety of societies warn against overemphasis on miracles. Some ancient Greeks were particularly vocal on the subject IIRC! However, that said, I think you bring up a very good idea, perhaps unintentionally, the issue that we are in general dealing with one, or at most three, monotheistic religions in Western civilisation. More than that those three religions are derived from the same roots. It's not a bad idea to remember that this is not all religion. I think Rich is hitting the issue from a different angle however. I think that Rich is trying to get at (correct me if I'm wrong btw) the claim made by some theists of various religions that their faith is based on excellent evidence, reason, logic etc when it actually ain't. So if a theist makes the claim that their faith is supported by reason, and in the things they cite as corroboration are admittedly miraculous, then they are disproving their own claim. Louis -------------- Bye.

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:14    Sorry, for the learning impaired, I will speak slowly and use small words. The question is whether or not miracles can be used as proof of theism.  And as much as I hate to admit it, Louis is right, a miracle is proof of nothing as it is by definition a unique, most likely, unrepeatable event.  Or is it? Here rises my problem and my lack of patience with nitwits.  Just what is a miracle?  Who gets to decide and how do you define a miracle.  This can't be done objectively by any definition.  The only review can be undertaken by looking at existing religions and their descriptions in order to evaluate the miracle in question.  Personally, I don't think this method is appropriate but I don't think miracle as proof of theism is a valid question.  That's up to you guys if you wanna play in this sandbox. What is necessary, though, if you choose to go down this route is to be accurate or in some way factual if you're going to evaluate any idea.  By presenting the crap that guys have and then shooting it down as if it is reflective of religion is not only stupid but lazy. My suggestion, again, is if you're going to try to evaluate J-C religion and miracles, learn something about the religion and what it is actually saying before sounding off. What you guys are doing is the equivalent of saying "Mohammed could not have made the Midnight Ride because, in fact, he was actually a Chinese immigrant and everyone knows that Chinese immigrants don't ride horses." And, Louis, as to the matter of contributions, well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I've sat back for the last few months and witnessed a shocking display of idiocy.  So profound that I've found no reason whatsoever to touch my keyboard.  I view every post here as a bit of my precious time and a valuable contribution if I take the time to make it.  I can only hope that some day some of you will come to the realization that there are other opinions out there and maybe if you guys could think critically you'd see that. Oh, and Louis, I can already anticipate the vulgarity that is to follow and you can save it.  It has no impact on me and the time you devote to typing it in is a waste of your precious time.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:20    Quote The question is whether or not miracles can be used as proof of theism.  And as much as I hate to admit it, Louis is right, a miracle is proof of nothing as it is by definition a unique, most likely, unrepeatable event.  Or is it? This is a horrible mischaracterization of what I'm saying. I suggest real or not, miracles do faith no favours as you're trying to bolster a weak argument with parlor tricks, which shouldn't be necessary in a perfectly constructed (divine) message. Go to the back of the class... -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:23    Well, I can see that no answer to my tortilla question is forthcoming... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:27    Septic whines: Quote I view every post here as a bit of my precious time and a valuable contribution if I take the time to make it.  I can only hope that some day some of you will come to the realization that there are other opinions out there and maybe if you guys could think critically you'd see that. Oh, and Louis, I can already anticipate the vulgarity that is to follow and you can save it.  It has no impact on me and the time you devote to typing it in is a waste of your precious time. Wow. I nearly fainted.  to say the least, the louis-skeptic thread suggests that at least some of your posts are not worth much of your precious time nor that they are valuable contributions.  for reasons that you seem unable to understand. don't get me wrong, skeptic, you ain't a bad guy.  But obstinately thick about the head and ears. But to channel Lenny (wow I guess I miss the crotchety old bastard): Quote you will come to the realization that there are other opinions out there Why, dear skeptic, should anyone give a flying damn about your opinions?  If you cannot or will not inspect assertions critically, and instead privilege such nonsense with the status of 'an opinion', you are saying that we should all nod wisely and agree 'yes yes yes of course of course hmmm indeed' when it is plainly obvious that opinion or not, it is Bull Shit? To say that any of us knows nothing about the general flavor of religion that you call J-C is supportable, to say that most of us or even a large fraction is simply not true.  Most of us are reformed religionists, sir douchebag, and the scales on your eyes have been removed from ours (and by that i don't mean atheism, but your particularly naughty little democratic fallacies, your is-ought confusion and your inability to understand propositional logic and the role of evidence in supporting a claim).   that is liable to make folks sharp-tongued.  and you seem to enjoy that because persecution complexes seem to be one of your finer tastes. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:28    Quote My suggestion, again, is if you're going to try to evaluate J-C religion and miracles, learn something about the religion and what it is actually saying before sounding off. Please share with us the hard facts about miracles that will no doubt make them make much more sense to all the rest of us. -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

EoRaptor013 Posts: 45 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:39    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,01:44) I forgot that book that Da Vinci wrote, how stupid of me! Maybe he just did the comic book version. Look, if you guys are going to bash, at least have a clue as to what it is that you're actually bashing, just a suggestion.  It looks awful hypocritical to get on me for referring to a particular incarnation of God and then continue to bash that very same incarnation.  My suggestion is if you're going to bash a Judeo-Christian incarnation learn something about it first so you can at least present valid points rather than this third-grade nonsense you guys keep throwing around. WTF!!! That book DaVinci wrote? A comic book version? I'm so thunderstruck I can't come up with the words to describe how incredibly (what's the HTML for strikethrough?) inane septic is. Confusing Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel fresco with a book by DaVinci just threw every circuit breaker I have. (Not to suggest, of course, that they weren't both equally great men.) AND THEN, he accuses us of not knowing anything about that which we criticize! I sincerely doubt septic has ever read the Bible in its entirety. He certainly hasn't read any Bible commentary or scholarly research. And he knows jack excrement about religious art and literature. Whew, somebody help me get all these circuits reset before there's a massive blackout all along the Eastern seaboard.   0x1B

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:41    In principle, I agree with you Richard.  Miracles are not a good proof of the existence of God.  But I would caution one thing.  I would tend to think that a miracle is not God's way of saying "Look how great I am, you should all bow down."  But rather our ignorance of what is actually occurring.  One example, about 2 weeks ago a four year old boy drowned in California.  He was pulled out of the pool and rushed to the hospital.  He was without pulse or breathing for 4 hours and then just woke up with no apparent brain damage or other lasting effects.  Some would call this a miracle and at a rational level we know that this boy should be dead.  But, as pointed out earlier, were any natural laws broken here?  There's no indication of that; we (by this I mean the medical community) just have no idea what happened.  In either case, this is very poor proof for the existence of God because even looking at a contemporary event we still have no idea what happened or what it does or doesn't mean.  How could even hope to look at events in antiquity and evaluate them any better? No, Arden, you'll get no answer because the question is stupid.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:44    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,15:14) [SNIP] And, Louis, as to the matter of contributions, well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  I've sat back for the last few months and witnessed a shocking display of idiocy.  So profound that I've found no reason whatsoever to touch my keyboard.  I view every post here as a bit of my precious time and a valuable contribution if I take the time to make it.  I can only hope that some day some of you will come to the realization that there are other opinions out there and maybe if you guys could think critically you'd see that. Oh, and Louis, I can already anticipate the vulgarity that is to follow and you can save it.  It has no impact on me and the time you devote to typing it in is a waste of your precious time. Your concern trolling is noted. We KNOW there are other opinions out there. I KNOW there are myriad other opinions out there, and guess what Skeptic, I also KNOW that a lot of the opinions I and other people have are wrong (or at the very least will be found to be at some point in the future). As usual Skeptic you are missing the point and paddling your troll canoe for all you are worth. YOU lecturing US on critical thought? YOU the most credulous unintellectual muppet I've encountered since FTK? Please, spare us these painstaking gifts of your time. Try to follow this very carefully: 1) Everyone is born equal (or however you wish to phrase that idea). 2) Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has them. 3) My opinion that this table in front of me is a small Czechoslovakian policeman named Boris is not the same as your opinion that it is a table. The opinions can be distinguished between on the basis of evidence. 4) Not all opinions are equal. 5) People =/= opinions. Geddit? Sorry Skeptic, but from the precious gems of posts you delicately craft using your incredibly valuable time, you manifestly have no clue about any of these subjects. Stop wasting your time and ours. Like I said, what do you think you are contributing? If you want to present a different opinion then go ahead and do so, but expect to defend it. Thus far you are demonstrably incapable of defending your opinions. Your opinions on certain issues are not as valid as mine. Not because I say so, not because I like my opinions more than yours, not because of any bias, simply because mine are consistent with/based on the available evidence and yours are not. IS it possible that you STILL don't understand this. So like I said, why re you wasting your precious time and ours with what is nothing more than concern trolling. This idiocy you speak of, care to demonstrate that it's idiocy, quote it, dissect it? No? Didn't think so. Louis P.S. Vulgarity? Pah! "Won't someone think of the children?". I'll stop being vulgar when you stop being stupid. Deal? That should keep me in dick jokes until the bury me! -------------- Bye.

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:48    Raptor, thanks for the correction, I was writing on the fly. But, before you get too cocky, I wouldn't suggest you get into a discussion of the Bible with me.  Unless you have a few years to spare to catch up. Eramus, sorry, I could care less about your supposed persecution complexes.  The comments by the individuals on this board mean nothing to me personally.  And by all rights, the comments on this board should mean nothing to any mature adult but we can't take that for granted now can we?

skeptic Posts: 1163 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:50    Louis, you're first premise is wrong.  No one is created equal.  As for the rest, well, crap piled on more crap.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:54    zero thanks for the wishies. Why do you suppose all these serendipitous things happen to you and not anyone else?   I once dated a girl that lived in a world like that.  If a leaf happened to fall a certain way she would turn right, there was meaning farts, etc etc.  i later concluded she didn't really believe it.  just a cute way to act that hippies thought was really killer and mystical and cool.  i usually just spit tobacco juice and said, "Yup.  That's some crazy shit alright". I've seen crazy shit.  Thought that metaphysical explanations might carry some variance.  Now I'm convinced that there is no rational scale of measuring such things, and I'm happy to surrender and say in paraphrase of some wiser person 'not only do we know shit is crazy, but shit is crazier than we can know'.  and for septic that means that his  personal opinions about crazy shit are validated and true, for him.  and for the rest of us, it means nothing of the sort. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:54    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,15:41) No, Arden, you'll get no answer because the question is stupid. No Skeptic, the question cuts to the very heart of the problems with your (or indeed anyone's) religious claims. The reason you won't answer it is twofold: you cannot and you are too scared to even try. What should worry you, but doesn't because you're basically lying to yourself, is we know you and your ideological kind from soup to nuts, from top to toe. Every weaselly little dodge to maintain your cognitive dissonance is known, every red herring, every whine, every little rhetorical trick. Everything. This has been documented, debated and discussed since time immemorial, and you aren't coming out with anything new. If you had even the remotest shred of intellectual honesty or simple self respect you'd at least spend some of your precious time (my arse, how much precious time does a burger flipper at McDonalds have? Evidence of your ability to understand English let alone chemistry has not exactly been forthcoming, colour me sceptical) attempting to defend your wholly unsubstantiated claims. Someone once advanced the hypothesis that religion is merely a form of psychotherapy. Designed to stave off mental illnesses like depression etc. Personally I find this claim ill-supported by the evidence, trite, and over simplified but I'll be damned if every time I deal with you you don't provide me with a body of anecdotal evidence that is remarkably personally convincing. If this claim about religion is true, and I have no reason to think it is btw, then boy, it hasn't worked for you. Louis -------------- Bye.

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:54    Quote No, Arden, you'll get no answer because the question is stupid. Ah. So you're telling us that miracles would MAKE MUCH MORE SENSE to all of us IF ONLY WE HAD ALL THE FACTS about them. When we invite you to tell us what these facts are, 'the question is stupid'. Can you really not see why you're not winning any arguments here? -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:55    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,09:41) In principle, I agree with you Richard.  Miracles are not a good proof of the existence of God.  But I would caution one thing.  I would tend to think that a miracle is not God's way of saying "Look how great I am, you should all bow down."  But rather our ignorance of what is actually occurring.  One example, about 2 weeks ago a four year old boy drowned in California.  He was pulled out of the pool and rushed to the hospital.  He was without pulse or breathing for 4 hours and then just woke up with no apparent brain damage or other lasting effects.  Some would call this a miracle and at a rational level we know that this boy should be dead.  But, as pointed out earlier, were any natural laws broken here?  There's no indication of that; we (by this I mean the medical community) just have no idea what happened.  In either case, this is very poor proof for the existence of God because even looking at a contemporary event we still have no idea what happened or what it does or doesn't mean.  How could even hope to look at events in antiquity and evaluate them any better? No, Arden, you'll get no answer because the question is stupid. That's nearly it. My point is they should be completely unnecessary. The message alone should do it. I'm not interested in a critique of unmeasured events from antiquity. The claim is they suggest faith needed spicing up some as the core message was (and still is) lacking. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:56    hey skeptic out of all that, you choose to deny that you have a persecution complex? you don't want to address the bit about why should your opinion be worth any more than any one elses?  nasty old empiricists.  always asking for evidence.  as if that mattered or something. toodles -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:57    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,09:50) Louis, you're first premise is wrong.  No one is created equal. Well, *I* was, but none of the rest of you guys were... -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:57    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 27 2008,09:54) Quote No, Arden, you'll get no answer because the question is stupid. Ah. So you're telling us that miracles would MAKE MUCH MORE SENSE to all of us IF ONLY WE HAD ALL THE FACTS about them. When we invite you to tell us what these facts are, 'the question is stupid'. Can you really not see why you're not winning any arguments here? He'd be our Shammen, if we'd let him. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicism#Karl_Popper -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:57    Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 27 2008,09:57) Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,09:50) Louis, you're first premise is wrong.  No one is created equal. Well, *I* was, but none of the rest of you guys were... :angry: Shut up! I'm unique, just like everybody else!!!!1111one -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,09:59    Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,15:50) Louis, you're first premise is wrong.  No one is created equal.  As for the rest, well, crap piled on more crap. People aren't born equal? You mean some are god's chosen and some aren't? You mean something else? So you simply mean that Linford Christie's innate running abilities are better than mine? Because I don't think anyone will disagree with that. Equal in terms of value and worth Skeptic, two arbitrary human concepts. You'll need to elabroate on that. Explain yourself. I was trying to put things simply for you. Oh well, it seems you cannot understand even that. So are all opinions equal Skeptic? Do people = opinions? Are opinions indistinguisable on the basis of evidence? Explain which bits are crap and why please. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,10:01    Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 27 2008,15:57) Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Feb. 27 2008,09:57) Quote (skeptic @ Feb. 27 2008,09:50) Louis, you're first premise is wrong.  No one is created equal. Well, *I* was, but none of the rest of you guys were... :angry: Shut up! I'm unique, just like everybody else!!!!1111one [Life of Brain] Brain: You are all individual! Man in crowd: {raises hand} I'm not. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,10:05    Dear All, Please witness the human brain on religion in the form of Skeptic. First it's an essentialist, then a relativist, then a solipsist, then a nihilist, then a... you get the point. Basically people like Skeptic are terrified that the little ideas they have in their head aren't real. They'll do and say anything to prevent themselves consciously acknowledging either the fact, or the fear of the fact, that those ideas are not real. Hence all the whining/concern trolling/red herrings/etc. Skeptic's motto: Can't think, won't think. Louis -------------- Bye.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2008,10:25    Louis, I simply refuse to entertain that possibility. Won't do it. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

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