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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1266
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 16 2012,15:37   

Quote (sparc @ May 16 2012,14:43)
Quote (Kattarina98 @ May 16 2012,11:58)
Quote (Freddie @ May 16 2012,11:34)
What the fuck does that even mean?  Did she just piss off a few hundred million fellow catholics?

She might love to piss off Catholics; iirc she belongs to a group of fundie dissenters who want to go back to the roots.

Isn't she a former fundy evangelical and converted for whatever reasons?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki....27Leary

Quick to deal with progressive priests in Latin America, the current Pope seems to lean towards the more fundie flavour of Catholicism.

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2131
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 16 2012,20:49   

Some times the ads just fall the right way.  Reading Denyse's article on "What Happened When That Kiddie Surgeon..." gave his speech, she goes on about "the Darwinbots who batten [sic] off US taxpayers, claiming to know the history of life when they don’t." and the surgery she had as a child (brain transplant?), I'm also glancing at the ads:

Herbert W. Armstrong was right about everything he predicted!

The End Time Is Here!

If God is Good Then ...

and at the very end:

                                Dr. Keith Black
Leading expert on brain disorder research, treatment & surgery.

You're advertising on the right blog, Dr. Black!

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,07:01   

Quote (CeilingCat @ May 16 2012,20:49)
the surgery she had as a child (brain transplant?)

Brainectomy?

 
Quote

Leading expert on brain disorder research, treatment & surgery.

No suitable replacement found?

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
George



Posts: 315
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,08:09   

Quote (Quack @ May 17 2012,07:01)
 
Quote (CeilingCat @ May 16 2012,20:49)
the surgery she had as a child (brain transplant?)

Brainectomy?

O'Leary:  My... brain... hurts!

Dr. Black:  It will have to come out.

[Chaos with oversized wooden mallets and rusty saws ensues.]

Documentary evidence.

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,10:41   

Quote (George @ May 17 2012,08:09)
 
Quote (Quack @ May 17 2012,07:01)
   
Quote (CeilingCat @ May 16 2012,20:49)
the surgery she had as a child (brain transplant?)

Brainectomy?

O'Leary:  My... brain... hurts!

Dr. Black:  It will have to come out.

[Chaos with oversized wooden mallets and rusty saws ensues.]

Documentary evidence.

O'Leary:  My... brain... hurts!

Dr. Black: It's phantom pain.  I'm afraid there's nothing I can do.


  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,11:58   

Quote
Having studied under a prominent anti-ID professor, James Trefil, I asked him in a public Q&A, where I identified myself as a creationist and his former student, whether it was OK to give him answers he wanted on an exam even though we didn’t believe what he said.

He basically said he was fine with that. He has to assign grades based on what you answered, but he has no domain over ones personal belief. He was kind enough to also tell the audience I got an A in his class.

I don’t mean to offend – I realize just how high the stakes are – but I don’t know of any other way to say this. When you follow this path, what you’ve done is practice being a coward.


It is more subtle than that. There was a time when the Apostles fled jerusalem under persecution, only to be martyred another day. It would seem there is a time God will call his people to flee persecution and then ask the same people to be martyred later…..

It is also strange who gets through the system, and who gets punished. 3 creationists got their PhD’s in biology at George Mason University (Gordon Wilson, Tim Standish, Tim Brophie), yet 1 ID proponent was dimissed (Carline Crocker).

Some are hated after they graduate, some are still on good terms. Stephen Gould never spoke ill of his creationist student Kurt Wise. That’s certainly not the case with Bill Dembski and his teacher Jeff Shallit!

My thoughts. If you really want to get good at creation science or ID, there are other disciplines than biology where you can still study biology. Get your BS, MS, or PhD in a field where the Darwinists will be hard pressed to hold your finances, your career, your wife, kids, and loved ones hostage to the Darwinist inquisition. Maybe it is wise to go where you can be free. If you really want to do the biology thing, perhaps consider double-majoring or something, just so you have an out. Even the Apostle Paul was known to flee at times despite being quite eager to be martyred. There is a time and place for everything.

As far as specific non-biology disciplines, consider the founders of the modern ID and modern creation science movements:

A.E. Wilder-Smith : Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals
Henry Morris : hydraulic engineering
Walter Brown : Mechanical Engineering
Duae Gish : Bio chemistry
Charles Thaxton: Physical Chemistry
William Dembski: Mathematics and Theology
Michael Behe: Bio Chemistry
Michael Denton: Bio Chemistry
Fred Hoyle: astro physics
Walter Bradley : materials engineering
Roger Olsen: geo chemistry
Phil Johnson : Law

The astonishing thing, the minority discipline is biology.

If you want to be martyred for ID, you may have some choice in how you want to be persecuted. It doesn’t necessarily mean taking classes with the Paul Mirecki’s of the world to by martyred in a way that you’ll be forgotten.

Personally, I’m glad about those who’ve kept their mouth shut. Its nice to hang out with PhD creationist biologists who are in hiding. ID circles would otherwise be a lonely place without the stealth support of those in hiding.

I will mention, creationists applying to grad school from undergrade creationist schools like Liberty have had success in being open about who they are in grad school interviews if they have sufficiently good qualifications.

Furthermore, almost all diciplines in biology are agnostic to evolutionary ideas, so even in some cases it never becomes an issue. But perhaps a little caution is always wise. Don’t go around looking for trouble, especially if you have family that might be counting on you for their food and shelter.


S-Sal

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Henry J



Posts: 5039
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,13:59   

Stealth support?

If ID and/or C was even a useful approximation there would be no need for stealth.

As long as it's not a useful approximation, there is no need for it.

:p

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,15:25   

jonnyb brings on teh gay

     
Quote
You will not come out as Zorro prancing from the shadows with your blade.


Yes, well, I guess if you're going to 'come out' you might as well dress up like Zorro and do a bit of prancing.  No shame in that.  But I do think you should leave your blade sheathed.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,17:17   

Quote (NormOlsen @ May 17 2012,15:25)
jonnyb brings on teh gay

     
Quote
You will not come out as Zorro prancing from the shadows with your blade.


Yes, well, I guess if you're going to 'come out' you might as well dress up like Zorro and do a bit of prancing.  No shame in that.  But I do think you should leave your blade sheathed.

Not if you are going to a battle with...

THE MONSTER OF MONTSERRAT!!!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 533
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,17:18   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 17 2012,09:58)
   
Quote
{Sally}
My thoughts. If you really want to get good at creation science or ID, there are other disciplines than biology where you can still study biology. Get your BS, MS, or PhD in a field where the Darwinists will be hard pressed to hold your finances, your career, your wife, kids, and loved ones hostage to the Darwinist inquisition. Maybe it is wise to go where you can be free. If you really want to do the biology thing, perhaps consider double-majoring or something, just so you have an out. Even the Apostle Paul was known to flee at times despite being quite eager to be martyred. There is a time and place for everything.

As far as specific non-biology disciplines, consider the founders of the modern ID and modern creation science movements:

A.E. Wilder-Smith : Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals
Henry Morris : hydraulic engineering
Walter Brown : Mechanical Engineering
Duae Gish : Bio chemistry
Charles Thaxton: Physical Chemistry
William Dembski: Mathematics and Theology
Michael Behe: Bio Chemistry
Michael Denton: Bio Chemistry
Fred Hoyle: astro physics
Walter Bradley : materials engineering
Roger Olsen: geo chemistry
Phil Johnson : Law

The astonishing thing, the minority discipline is biology.

Furthermore, almost all diciplines in biology are agnostic to evolutionary ideas, so even in some cases it never becomes an issue. But perhaps a little caution is always wise. Don’t go around looking for trouble, especially if you have family that might be counting on you for their food and shelter.


S-Sal


Summary:
Waa!  The meany biologists always call me on my bullshit. Waa!
Oh me, oh my, the terrible, terrible sacrifices that must be made by the faithful.  Just martyr me now.
{/Sally}

Hmm.  Very few creationists study biology, and very few biologists are creationists.
Hardly astonishing in either case.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,17:23   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 17 2012,09:58)
Quote
Having studied under a prominent anti-ID professor, James Trefil, I asked him in a public Q&A, where I identified myself as a creationist and his former student, whether it was OK to give him answers he wanted on an exam even though we didn’t believe what he said.

He basically said he was fine with that. He has to assign grades based on what you answered, but he has no domain over ones personal belief. He was kind enough to also tell the audience I got an A in his class.

I don’t mean to offend – I realize just how high the stakes are – but I don’t know of any other way to say this. When you follow this path, what you’ve done is practice being a coward.


It is more subtle than that. There was a time when the Apostles fled jerusalem under persecution, only to be martyred another day. It would seem there is a time God will call his people to flee persecution and then ask the same people to be martyred later…..

It is also strange who gets through the system, and who gets punished. 3 creationists got their PhD’s in biology at George Mason University (Gordon Wilson, Tim Standish, Tim Brophie), yet 1 ID proponent was dimissed (Carline Crocker).

Some are hated after they graduate, some are still on good terms. Stephen Gould never spoke ill of his creationist student Kurt Wise. That’s certainly not the case with Bill Dembski and his teacher Jeff Shallit!

My thoughts. If you really want to get good at creation science or ID, there are other disciplines than biology where you can still study biology. Get your BS, MS, or PhD in a field where the Darwinists will be hard pressed to hold your finances, your career, your wife, kids, and loved ones hostage to the Darwinist inquisition. Maybe it is wise to go where you can be free. If you really want to do the biology thing, perhaps consider double-majoring or something, just so you have an out. Even the Apostle Paul was known to flee at times despite being quite eager to be martyred. There is a time and place for everything.

As far as specific non-biology disciplines, consider the founders of the modern ID and modern creation science movements:

A.E. Wilder-Smith : Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals
Henry Morris : hydraulic engineering
Walter Brown : Mechanical Engineering
Duae Gish : Bio chemistry
Charles Thaxton: Physical Chemistry
William Dembski: Mathematics and Theology
Michael Behe: Bio Chemistry
Michael Denton: Bio Chemistry
Fred Hoyle: astro physics
Walter Bradley : materials engineering
Roger Olsen: geo chemistry
Phil Johnson : Law

The astonishing thing, the minority discipline is biology.

If you want to be martyred for ID, you may have some choice in how you want to be persecuted. It doesn’t necessarily mean taking classes with the Paul Mirecki’s of the world to by martyred in a way that you’ll be forgotten.

Personally, I’m glad about those who’ve kept their mouth shut. Its nice to hang out with PhD creationist biologists who are in hiding. ID circles would otherwise be a lonely place without the stealth support of those in hiding.

I will mention, creationists applying to grad school from undergrade creationist schools like Liberty have had success in being open about who they are in grad school interviews if they have sufficiently good qualifications.

Furthermore, almost all diciplines in biology are agnostic to evolutionary ideas, so even in some cases it never becomes an issue. But perhaps a little caution is always wise. Don’t go around looking for trouble, especially if you have family that might be counting on you for their food and shelter.


S-Sal

Wow, that is some seriously crazy crap.

That self serving, delusional mess from Slimy Sal just goes to show that he sees himself and his IDC comrades as clones of the imaginary jesus character, who is alleged to have been wrongly persecuted and crucified but rose again to become a martyr and savior. The persecution complex and delusions of godhood that the IDCs have are a profound demonstration of their insecurity, arrogance, and insanity.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,17:58   

I'm amazed these lunatics are still going.

I thought about this place again when some random whackjob on the Randi forums linked to UncommonlyDense. I couldn't believe it!

Well actually I could, since he's a YEC and all.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,22:25   

He is honest enough to point out that the more one knows about biology, the less likely to advocate ID.

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,22:38   

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ May 17 2012,15:58)
I'm amazed these lunatics are still going.

I thought about this place again when some random whackjob on the Randi forums linked to UncommonlyDense. I couldn't believe it!

Well actually I could, since he's a YEC and all.

Apparently, lunacy (especially religious lunacy) comes with the very strong urge to spread it around and force it upon others (misery loves company). The lunatics are thoroughly convinced they are right about absolutely everything and that they must 'minister' to all the people who are wrong and bring them into the righteous (lunatic) fold. People like that are a great example of deleterious brain mutations.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2804
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 17 2012,22:52   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 17 2012,09:58)
Quote
Having studied under a prominent anti-ID professor, James Trefil, I asked him in a public Q&A, where I identified myself as a creationist and his former student, whether it was OK to give him answers he wanted on an exam even though we didn’t believe what he said.

He basically said he was fine with that. He has to assign grades based on what you answered, but he has no domain over ones personal belief. He was kind enough to also tell the audience I got an A in his class.

I don’t mean to offend – I realize just how high the stakes are – but I don’t know of any other way to say this. When you follow this path, what you’ve done is practice being a coward.


It is more subtle than that. There was a time when the Apostles fled jerusalem under persecution, only to be martyred another day. It would seem there is a time God will call his people to flee persecution and then ask the same people to be martyred later…..

It is also strange who gets through the system, and who gets punished. 3 creationists got their PhD’s in biology at George Mason University (Gordon Wilson, Tim Standish, Tim Brophie), yet 1 ID proponent was dimissed (Carline Crocker).

Some are hated after they graduate, some are still on good terms. Stephen Gould never spoke ill of his creationist student Kurt Wise. That’s certainly not the case with Bill Dembski and his teacher Jeff Shallit!

My thoughts. If you really want to get good at creation science or ID, there are other disciplines than biology where you can still study biology. Get your BS, MS, or PhD in a field where the Darwinists will be hard pressed to hold your finances, your career, your wife, kids, and loved ones hostage to the Darwinist inquisition. Maybe it is wise to go where you can be free. If you really want to do the biology thing, perhaps consider double-majoring or something, just so you have an out. Even the Apostle Paul was known to flee at times despite being quite eager to be martyred. There is a time and place for everything.

As far as specific non-biology disciplines, consider the founders of the modern ID and modern creation science movements:

A.E. Wilder-Smith : Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals
Henry Morris : hydraulic engineering
Walter Brown : Mechanical Engineering
Duae Gish : Bio chemistry
Charles Thaxton: Physical Chemistry
William Dembski: Mathematics and Theology
Michael Behe: Bio Chemistry
Michael Denton: Bio Chemistry
Fred Hoyle: astro physics
Walter Bradley : materials engineering
Roger Olsen: geo chemistry
Phil Johnson : Law

The astonishing thing, the minority discipline is biology.

If you want to be martyred for ID, you may have some choice in how you want to be persecuted. It doesn’t necessarily mean taking classes with the Paul Mirecki’s of the world to by martyred in a way that you’ll be forgotten.

Personally, I’m glad about those who’ve kept their mouth shut. Its nice to hang out with PhD creationist biologists who are in hiding. ID circles would otherwise be a lonely place without the stealth support of those in hiding.

I will mention, creationists applying to grad school from undergrade creationist schools like Liberty have had success in being open about who they are in grad school interviews if they have sufficiently good qualifications.

Furthermore, almost all diciplines in biology are agnostic to evolutionary ideas, so even in some cases it never becomes an issue. But perhaps a little caution is always wise. Don’t go around looking for trouble, especially if you have family that might be counting on you for their food and shelter.


S-Sal

Apparently pointing and laughing is on par with the Catherine Wheel to these nutjobs.

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

  
clamboy



Posts: 236
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2012,00:54   

Quote (NormOlsen @ May 17 2012,15:25)
jonnyb brings on teh gay

     
Quote
You will not come out as Zorro prancing from the shadows with your blade.


Yes, well, I guess if you're going to 'come out' you might as well dress up like Zorro and do a bit of prancing.  No shame in that.  But I do think you should leave your blade sheathed.

"Say something like a sissy boy."

  
tsig



Posts: 339
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2012,08:28   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ May 17 2012,11:58)
Quote
Having studied under a prominent anti-ID professor, James Trefil, I asked him in a public Q&A, where I identified myself as a creationist and his former student, whether it was OK to give him answers he wanted on an exam even though we didn’t believe what he said.

He basically said he was fine with that. He has to assign grades based on what you answered, but he has no domain over ones personal belief. He was kind enough to also tell the audience I got an A in his class.

I don’t mean to offend – I realize just how high the stakes are – but I don’t know of any other way to say this. When you follow this path, what you’ve done is practice being a coward.


It is more subtle than that. There was a time when the Apostles fled jerusalem under persecution, only to be martyred another day. It would seem there is a time God will call his people to flee persecution and then ask the same people to be martyred later…..

It is also strange who gets through the system, and who gets punished. 3 creationists got their PhD’s in biology at George Mason University (Gordon Wilson, Tim Standish, Tim Brophie), yet 1 ID proponent was dimissed (Carline Crocker).

Some are hated after they graduate, some are still on good terms. Stephen Gould never spoke ill of his creationist student Kurt Wise. That’s certainly not the case with Bill Dembski and his teacher Jeff Shallit!

My thoughts. If you really want to get good at creation science or ID, there are other disciplines than biology where you can still study biology. Get your BS, MS, or PhD in a field where the Darwinists will be hard pressed to hold your finances, your career, your wife, kids, and loved ones hostage to the Darwinist inquisition. Maybe it is wise to go where you can be free. If you really want to do the biology thing, perhaps consider double-majoring or something, just so you have an out. Even the Apostle Paul was known to flee at times despite being quite eager to be martyred. There is a time and place for everything.

As far as specific non-biology disciplines, consider the founders of the modern ID and modern creation science movements:

A.E. Wilder-Smith : Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals
Henry Morris : hydraulic engineering
Walter Brown : Mechanical Engineering
Duae Gish : Bio chemistry
Charles Thaxton: Physical Chemistry
William Dembski: Mathematics and Theology
Michael Behe: Bio Chemistry
Michael Denton: Bio Chemistry
Fred Hoyle: astro physics
Walter Bradley : materials engineering
Roger Olsen: geo chemistry
Phil Johnson : Law

The astonishing thing, the minority discipline is biology.

If you want to be martyred for ID, you may have some choice in how you want to be persecuted. It doesn’t necessarily mean taking classes with the Paul Mirecki’s of the world to by martyred in a way that you’ll be forgotten.

Personally, I’m glad about those who’ve kept their mouth shut. Its nice to hang out with PhD creationist biologists who are in hiding. ID circles would otherwise be a lonely place without the stealth support of those in hiding.

I will mention, creationists applying to grad school from undergrade creationist schools like Liberty have had success in being open about who they are in grad school interviews if they have sufficiently good qualifications.

Furthermore, almost all diciplines in biology are agnostic to evolutionary ideas, so even in some cases it never becomes an issue. But perhaps a little caution is always wise. Don’t go around looking for trouble, especially if you have family that might be counting on you for their food and shelter.


S-Sal

Slimy Sal:

Truth is never an option, be all you need to be.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2012,08:59   

Quote (Quack @ May 17 2012,05:01)
Quote (CeilingCat @ May 16 2012,20:49)
the surgery she had as a child (brain transplant?)

Brainectomy?

 
Quote

Leading expert on brain disorder research, treatment & surgery.

No suitable replacement found?

Well, the jar containing the first replacement choice was dropped and the brain was destroyed, so Igor (pronounced eye-gore) then chose another brain containing jar that was labeled "abnormal" (pronounced abby-somebody).

I hear that o'leary is still trying to learn how to dance while singing "Puttin' on the Ritz".

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2012,13:56   

Can't let this little gem by tjguy go without comment.

Highlight:
     
Quote
This model does need some direct supernatural intervention, but that is what the Bible teaches – God intervened in time and space and created the heavens and the earth in 6 days. This theory has no need to appeal to any dark matter, dark energy, or other fudge factors that are necessary to support the Big Bang.


Yup, no fudge factors required, just plain 'ole supernatural intervention!

  
Quack



Posts: 1961
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2012,15:43   

Quote
Wow, that is some seriously crazy crap.

Unbelievable, I doubt my own eyes! Without deep analysis; I think we are seeing some top notch multi-layered doublethink there!

--------------
Rocks have no biology.
              Robert Byers.

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: May 18 2012,18:19   

Quote (clamboy @ May 18 2012,00:54)
 
Quote (NormOlsen @ May 17 2012,15:25)
jonnyb brings on teh gay

         
Quote
You will not come out as Zorro prancing from the shadows with your blade.


Yes, well, I guess if you're going to 'come out' you might as well dress up like Zorro and do a bit of prancing.  No shame in that.  But I do think you should leave your blade sheathed.

"Say something like a sissy boy."


jonnyb ushers in a new strategy for getting ID into the classroom.  Forget the Wedge Document; say hello to the Gay Blade!


  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2012,04:41   

KF wants "to build an alternative independent education system" because:
       
Quote
The need to remove oneself from institutions that are violating their proper role is thus the key motive; out of concern for one’s children and a need to go to where one will be educated not propagandised, indoctrinated and manipulated or even intimidated.

An "education system" that is put together by people who can't even agree on the age of the earth or whether or not uniformitarianism is a necessary assumption for doing science.
But there won't be any indoctrination or intimidation going on, all academic freedom and so on...
         
Quote
A La Sierra University professor and three university trustees said they were dismissed for trying to resolve a years-long controversy over creationism and evolution that has threatened the religious institution’s accreditation.

Lee Greer, an assistant professor of biology, said the Riverside university refused to renew his three-year contract. The three trustees said their fellow board members booted them from the panel.

The university declined to comment.

The dismissals appear to be the latest chapter in a struggle by the Seventh-day Adventist institution to reconcile the church belief that God created the Earth in six days with the scientific consensus supporting the theory of evolution.

The Western Association of Schools and Colleges, which accredits universities, last year expressed concern that pressure from outside groups to infuse more religious teaching into the curriculum threatened the university’s autonomy — and could eventually imperil its accreditation.

La Sierra also is facing criticism from an Adventist church body, which contends the university does not do enough to expose students to the Adventist worldview.

Greer said he initiated discussions that led to a statement proposing that creation be taught in university classrooms as faith, rather than science, and that students be told that it could not be proven with scientific methods.


The university board in October voted to affirm the proposal and encouraged faculty to consider it in discussions on changing the curriculum. But the board also said the backers of the proposal should have consulted the full board and the university administration before publicizing it in Adventist Review, an official church publication.

Before the board voted on the proposal, it dismissed three of the four trustees who supported it.

Carla Lidner Baum said she was rushing back to La Sierra from an East Coast trip when board President Ricardo Graham called her. She was in a La Sierra parking lot when he told her to not enter the meeting room because she had been kicked off the board.

“I told him, ‘I can’t even come in and defend myself?’ and he said, ‘No,’” she said.

Graham did not return phone calls for comment.

Baum, a Riverside dentist, said she supported the proposal because it was a faculty-led effort to solve the controversy. Greer and five other faculty members signed the statement.

The faculty involvement seemed to address concerns from the Western Association of Schools and Colleges that La Sierra was subject to too much pressure from the church and outside groups, Baum said. The association does not allow non-academic forces to determine curriculum, but it does permit faculty to determine ways to incorporate religious teaching in the classroom.

“We thought we were helping fix the problem,” Baum said.

Another trustee, Kathryn Proffitt, said she was at the meeting when fellow board members voted to dismiss her without allowing her to reply to the allegation that the proposal breached “established governance protocols.”

“It makes no sense for someone like Mr. Greer to lose his position after five years of stellar performance,” said Proffitt, a former U.S. ambassador to Malta who now lives in Arizona. “He was trying to resolve a problem that has plagued the university for years.”

The third dismissed trustee was Marta Tooma.

La Sierra spokesman Larry Becker said the trustee dismissals occurred in executive — private — session and cannot be discussed publicly. The university does not comment on personnel decisions, such as Greer’s employment, he said.

Greer said he’s considering a lawsuit against the university alleging, among other issues, a violation of his contractual right to academic freedom. But he said he’d prefer to stay at La Sierra and have his contract renewed rather than resort to legal action.

Greer released what appeared to be certified letters documenting that he will be dismissed after the June 30 end of his contract.

The university has rebuffed his request to explain his reasons for spearheading the proposal and to refute allegations against him, he said

In Greer’s La Sierra office, a bookshelf contained volumes such as the Bible and “The Five Gospels” above texts such as “Religion and Science” and “Finding Darwin’s God.”

The professor said he only wanted to help La Sierra and its students.

“I’m concerned for the university,” he said. “And I’m concerned for the students, that they have a quality science education. … The controversy is not good for the prestige of their degrees.”
Linky

Dr. Greer himself issued a press release:      
Quote
Dr. Greer’s Joint Proposal suggested continued inclusion of evolution by “teaching and research in the various disciplines of the modern sciences according to the most up-to-date and rigorous standards of the published science . . . including the data which highlight the strengths and weaknesses of various models.” The proposal also suggested that biology faculty affirm and incorporate “the Biblical concept of creation, including the Seventh-day Adventist understanding of Genesis 1 and 2, as a faith position at the classroom level, when questions of origins are discussed.” The proposal noted that “creation is not a scientific construct. It is a faith construct. The conviction of Divine Creation lies beyond the purview of the methods of empirical science, and cannot be subjected to them. Nevertheless, faith and science can and should interact.”

   
Quote
Unfortunately, the Administration’s response to the independent proposal was not positive. “It seemed to me that President Randal Wisbey was upset that biology faculty, such as myself, had independently exercised our academic freedom by proposing a solution,” Dr. Greer said. In addition, three of the four Trustees who signed were removed because of their role in the Joint Proposal.
The Administration insisted that the biology faculty sign a hastily-written, official apology memo over the release of the informal proposal. Because of the memo’s mischaracterizations and errors of fact, Dr. Greer refused to sign giving his reasons in summary—despite several warnings communicated to him that failure to sign would place his faculty position in jeopardy.


Not to forget Dembski's change of mind, out of his own free will:
 
Quote
At that meeting, Dembski was quick to admit that he was wrong about the flood, Patterson said. “Had I had any inkling that Dr. Dembski was actually denying the absolute trustworthiness of the Bible, then that would have, of course, ended his relationship with the school,” he said.


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"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11110
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2012,11:04   

What does free-thinking follow-the-evidence Mullings use 'Mister leathers' for, one wonders?

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 4550
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2012,11:10   

Quote
.....Patterson said. “Had I had any inkling that Dr. Dembski was actually denying the absolute trustworthiness of the Bible, then that would have, of course, ended his relationship with the school,” he said.


So whack job fundie madrassa posing as 'tax deduction' ...erm...madrassa.

Uses 3000 year old text book.

OK I can see the benefits.....

1. Cheap
2. No copyrights
3. Authors all dead so no pesky 'buy my latestest textbook promotions'
4. No revisions or addenda.
5. No competition in it's field except mythology.
6. No index or bibliography to trip up teachers.
7. Included biology experiments can be performed using just dirt.
8. High level engineering course includes building a single Ship (plans not attached) which allows its gangway to reach South America with some method to prevent Tree Sloths from taking too long to board, during heavy rain.
9. Sex education has guides to group sex.


...and so on....the list is endless

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
NormOlsen



Posts: 104
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2012,11:54   

Jason Rosenhouse on
Theistic Evolution is Not a Form of Intelligent Design

 
Quote
The hallmark of anti-evolutionism, whether young-Earth creationism or intelligent design, is some implication that scientists are doing it wrong. They are not saying simply that evolution as scientists understand it fits within a larger metaphysical framework that involves God. They are saying that any understanding of natural history that does not make reference to God's direct activity is just wrong.


This is the context for every "news" piece over at UD.

  
Sol3a1



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2012,06:35   

Dannyb posted on 8th Comment at UD

and said this:

"The few that are interesting actually seem to be generated from specific mechanisms that are geared towards generating them (i.e. VDJ recombination). Likewise, population genetic models show that natural selection, if it is the main operating force, will not build complexity but destroy it."

That is a new one to me. How does natural selection destroy complexity and what models is he referring to?

  
k.e..



Posts: 4550
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2012,07:28   

Quote (Sol3a1 @ May 21 2012,14:35)
Dannyb posted on 8th Comment at UD

and said this:

"The few that are interesting actually seem to be generated from specific mechanisms that are geared towards generating them (i.e. VDJ recombination). Likewise, population genetic models show that natural selection, if it is the main operating force, will not build complexity but destroy it."

That is a new one to me. How does natural selection destroy complexity and what models is he referring to?

These I think....they all look the same





Q.E.D.

Fuck those UD biologists suck holes are geniuses aren't they?

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
The whole truth



Posts: 1554
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2012,07:33   

Might as well face it, IDiots are addicted to tard.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2012,07:36   

This is a funny comment from sal:  
Quote
My thoughts. If you really want to get good at creation science or ID, there are other disciplines than biology where you can still study biology. Get your BS, MS, or PhD in a field where the Darwinists will be hard pressed to hold your finances, your career, your wife, kids, and loved ones hostage to the Darwinist inquisition. Maybe it is wise to go where you can be free. If you really want to do the biology thing, perhaps consider double-majoring or something, just so you have an out. Even the Apostle Paul was known to flee at times despite being quite eager to be martyred. There is a time and place for everything.

As far as specific non-biology disciplines, consider the founders of the modern ID and modern creation science movements:

A.E. Wilder-Smith : Chemistry and Pharmaceuticals
Henry Morris : hydraulic engineering
Walter Brown : Mechanical Engineering
Duae Gish : Bio chemistry
Charles Thaxton: Physical Chemistry
William Dembski: Mathematics and Theology
Michael Behe: Bio Chemistry
Michael Denton: Bio Chemistry
Fred Hoyle: astro physics
Walter Bradley : materials engineering
Roger Olsen: geo chemistry
Phil Johnson : Law

The astonishing thing, the minority discipline is biology.


Hilarious on so many levels.  

Tard

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"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2012,07:37   

Quote (The whole truth @ May 21 2012,07:33)
Might as well face it, IDiots are addicted to tard.

I don't think IDiots are addicted to tard.  I think that we are addicted to tard.

IDiots just generate it.  It's like breathing... or more like excrement... they can't help it.  Random tard just flows from them like...

nevermind, the images I'm getting are too disgusting to continue with.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
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