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  Topic: Joe G.'s Tardgasm, How long can it last?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Henry J



Posts: 5105
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2018,20:54   

Has a rock ever lost its life?

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2018,21:18   

Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 21 2018,20:54)
Has a rock ever lost its life?

Rocks exist and that existence can end either by being melted or pulverized, for example. The question is are the rocks that continue to exist surviving?

Safes and their contents can survive fires.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1693
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2018,21:31   

I'm lost.  Does Joe think that we think rocks evolve?

If a rock melts and then solidifies three days later, does that mean it's the rock god come to Earth in rock form to save the rocks?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2018,21:53   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Feb. 21 2018,21:31)
I'm lost.  Does Joe think that we think rocks evolve?

If a rock melts and then solidifies three days later, does that mean it's the rock god come to Earth in rock form to save the rocks?

Richie said:
Quote
natural selection has a goal - survival. A model with an objective function.


If mere survival is a goal and rocks survive does that really promote a model with an objective function?

And moar importantly do you think that when an intelligently designed program does exactly what it was designed to do in its own little designed way that it somehow models or is an example of blind and mindless processes? Does an algorithm with a specific goal model a process that doesn't have that specific goal?

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2904
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 21 2018,23:05   

There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Henry J



Posts: 5105
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,10:39   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,22:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

Don't get voted off the island?

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,12:44   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,23:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

So much for the objective function of Richie's dreams...

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,12:45   

Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 22 2018,10:39)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,22:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

Don't get voted off the island?

Boated off the island

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11117
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,12:47   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 22 2018,12:44)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,23:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

So much for the objective function of Richie's dreams...

But the genome does, beyond the life of each individual. Sure, it has to change, but that is evolution. Oh wait, you thought evolution tried to make individuals live forever....

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,12:53   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 22 2018,12:47)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 22 2018,12:44)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,23:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

So much for the objective function of Richie's dreams...

But the genome does, beyond the life of each individual. Sure, it has to change, but that is evolution. Oh wait, you thought evolution tried to make individuals live forever....

What? For one ID is not anti-evolution so you are just equivocating. And for another you are just being an ass by trying to put thoughts in my head.

You are such a desperate loser, Dickie.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
k.e..



Posts: 4855
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,19:17   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 22 2018,20:53)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 22 2018,12:47)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 22 2018,12:44)
 
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,23:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

So much for the objective function of Richie's dreams...

But the genome does, beyond the life of each individual. Sure, it has to change, but that is evolution. Oh wait, you thought evolution tried to make individuals live forever....

What? For one ID is not anti-evolution so you are just equivocating. And for another you are just being an ass by trying to put thoughts in my head.

You are such a desperate loser, Dickie.

Then why are you here? Didn't you get the memo?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,20:03   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,19:17)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 22 2018,20:53)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 22 2018,12:47)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 22 2018,12:44)
 
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 21 2018,23:05)
There will now follow a three page argument about the meaning of "survive". :-/

So much for the objective function of Richie's dreams...

But the genome does, beyond the life of each individual. Sure, it has to change, but that is evolution. Oh wait, you thought evolution tried to make individuals live forever....

What? For one ID is not anti-evolution so you are just equivocating. And for another you are just being an ass by trying to put thoughts in my head.

You are such a desperate loser, Dickie.

Quote
Then why are you here?


Apparently to try to educate the ignorant. The attempt has already chased Ogre away


Quote
Didn't you get the memo?


I wrote it.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,20:06   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,19:19)
Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 22 2018,05:06)
Re "But the DI did give Diane and I something else to have in common: we both now have the public disapproval of the DI."

That's what you get for intelligently designing something! :p

And it's a very worthy credit to Wes and his spouse. Proof that the DI is "Anti-evolution".

And how are you defining "evolution" that makes the DI anti-evolution? Given the numerous definitions out there, there is only one that is anti-ID- see #6:

1. Change over time; history of nature; any sequence of events in nature

2. Changes in the frequencies of alleles in the gene pool of a population

3. Limited common descent: the idea that particular groups of organisms have descended from a common ancestor.

4. The mechanisms responsible for the change required to produce limited descent with modification, chiefly natural selection acting on random variations or mutations.

5. Universal common descent: the idea that all organisms have descended from a single common ancestor.

6. “Blind watchmaker” thesis: the idea that all organisms have descended from common ancestors solely through an unguided, unintelligent, purposeless, material processes such as natural selection acting on random variations or mutations; that the mechanisms of natural selection, random variation and mutation, and perhaps other similarly naturalistic mechanisms, are completely sufficient to account for the appearance of design in living organisms.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11117
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,22:12   

7) CDesign Proponentist

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e..



Posts: 4855
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 22 2018,23:52   

8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,06:52   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 22 2018,22:12)
7) CDesign Proponentist

Really? How does that make ID anti-evolution? You FAILed to define evolution, loser. Also there is this:

Quote
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers, having been originally breathed by the Creator into a few forms or into one; and that, whilst this planet has gone circling on according to the fixed law of gravity, from so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been, and are being evolved.


By dick's "logic" evolution is a Creationists thing

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,06:57   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,06:59   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 21 2018,20:37)
Disclosure: I did my postdoc working with Avida, I worked on the Avida-ED project, and my spouse is the architect and programmer on the current web-based Avida-ED.

Science Daily had an article discussing a research paper on the educational effectiveness of using Avida-ED, the award-winning software putting a user-friendly interface on the Avida resarch platform, to teach students basic concepts in evolutionary biology. Other recent notice came in a page at the IEEE 360Electronics site.

From the Results section of the research paper:

           
Quote

Student Acceptance of Evolution

Average student acceptance scores across all ten cases ranged from 173.95 to 90.04 on the pre-test and 76.28 to 91.06 on the post-test, or moderate to very high acceptance for both pre- and post-tests, using Rutledge’s (1996) guide to interpretation (Table 8). Average acceptance score increased significantly from pre- to post-test in four of the ten cases (Fig. 5). These four cases were all lowerdivision courses that also had statistically significant gains in average content score. Students in two of the three upper-division evolution courses, B_300Evo and F_400Evo, had very high acceptance on both the pre- and post-tests, with no significant change. These were the same two upper-division courses in which the highest pre-test content scores were observed. Students in the remaining upper-division course, C_400Evo, also did not show a significant change in acceptance from pre- to post-test, with the lowest average acceptance score on the post-test (76.28). Thus, case C_400Evo showed the lowest average scores for both content and acceptance on the post-test, despite being a senior-level evolution course (discussed below).

Understanding and Acceptance of Evolution

Most of the students in lower-division courses had significant increases in both average content and average acceptance scores, suggesting a relationship between the two. Again, we accounted for differences in levels of student prior knowledge by using normalized gains (g-avg; Hake, 2002), calculated for each student’s pre- and post-assessment scores, which were then averaged for each case. The Pearson correlation confirmed a significant, positive association between the change in average normalized content score and in average normalized acceptance score across the ten cases (r = 0.60, p < 0.05; Fig. 6).


Of course, whenever evolutionary computation gets favorable notice, you can count on the Discovery Institute to say "Pffff-ff-ff-fft" to that.

           
Quote

It’s time for a bit of honesty in evolution education! Avida shows that evolutionary processes require intelligent design to hit predetermined targets. That’s the candid takeaway from a lesson about this software. Since we don’t recommend trying to bring ID into public school classrooms, there are undoubtedly more effective uses of class time than playing with Avida-ED.


Well, predetermined targets are one thing, and actually "cheating", as Dembski has routinely called it, is quite another. There is a finite set of logic operations that can operate on one or two inputs. Avida has all of them implemented such that they could be specified and recognized if a program accomplished any of them. The Avida results that Dembski and others concern themselves with are a small sample, nine tasks, of that larger number. The 2003 Lenski et al. paper is based on the "logic-nine" definition of an environment.

Other environments are possible. By other, I mean something like 8.511301e10 of them or more when considered with nine selected tasks per environment. Choose other numbers of tasks and you'll different numbers, but mostly larger. Avida doesn't care which ones you specify, which makes it difficult to credit that the information of "intelligently designed" results for each of them is somehow crammed into the Avida executable, which the last time I checked weighed in at about 2e6 bytes.

During my postdoc, I used Avida, but here is the number of the existing predefined logic tasks I used in my research: 0. I added three instructions to the Avida instruction set, one to move the Avidian from its cell to an adjacent cell, one to randomly change which way it faced, and one that would load the difference in a resource between the current cell and the faced cell into a register. A task placeholder, "don't-care", got no merit bonus of its own; instead, Avidians received merit modulated by the concentration of resource in the cell the Avidian moved into, and only in the update it moved into it. What I was looking for was the evolution of movement strategies, of which there were this many defined in Avida: 0. What came out were a plethora of programs, hardly any alike, that moved Avidians around the grid in about eight general classes of movement. One of those classes corresponded to implementations of gradient ascent programs, the optimal movement strategy for the single-peaked resource environment I evolved them in. I certainly coded no "target" (where "target" would be a program or template for a program for moving) into Avida, and the Avida codebase didn't even have anything to move Avidians around before I worked on that.

Other researchers modified Avida to accomplish real-world things unrelated to the "logic-nine" environment Dembski and his comrades are fixated upon. There have been successful projects to code robotic controller programs, wirelessly networked sensor firmware that handles consensus-finding, and evolving feature sets specifying program UML. None of those things had a pre-specified endpoint in mind other than meeting a functional definition.

The DI screed also complains that "information sources" exist in Avida. Well, yeah, the things that are considered analogous to the environment are information sources. Just like environments are information sources for organisms. But information sources corresponding to what a Avidian genome is supposed to look like in the end? Nope.

The DI encourages people to look at the Evolutionary Informatics "Lab"-(not-affiliated-with-Baylor-despite-trying-really-hard) web dingus, Minivida, to see their version of what they imagine Avida is doing. I had a look. Avida is premised on self-replicating digital organisms. Minivida is not. Replication is something every viable Avidian does. Minivida just does some copying with mutation. The Minivida folks do offhandedly announce this departure from the source:

         
Quote

An attempt has been made to maintain as much compatilibity with Avida as possible, so most Avida programs should run on this simulator with the same results. However, all instructions relating to copying instructions are either ignored or only partially implemented.


Here's the code for reproduction:

Code Sample

// Make the next generation
AvidaSim.prototype.make_babies = function()
{
   // create an array with fitness(x) elements for every x in the current population
   var parents = new Array();
   for( var idx in this.population )
   {
       var parent = this.population[idx];
       for( var pos = 0; pos < parent.score*2 + 1;pos ++)
       {
           parents.push( parent.program );
       }
   }

   // create babies
   // select from above array so probability of being selected is correlated with fitness
   var babies = new Array();
   for( var child = 0; child < this.config.population_size; child++)
   {
       var parent_idx = Math.floor( Math.random() * parents.length );
       babies.push( new ChildGenome( this, parents[parent_idx] ) );
   }

   this.population = babies;
}


There's a call in there, so let's have a look:

Code Sample

function Genome(simulation)
{
   this.program = "";
   for(var i = 0; i < 85;i++)
   {
       this.program += simulation.random_letter();
   }
   this.score = undefined;
}

function ChildGenome(simulation, parent)
{

   var idx = Math.floor( Math.random() * parent.length);
   var letter = simulation.random_letter();

   this.program = parent.substr(0, idx).concat( letter, parent.substr(idx+1) );
   this.score = undefined;
}


Mutation in Minivida always is triggered for one location in a genome. The child genome is the parent genome with one instruction substituted randomly.

Minivida forces a fixed genome size (85) and fixed mutation rate (0.9615/85). Why the odd number? Their mutation routine does not check that the mutated instruction actually differs from the one being replaced, so 1/26th of the time it will be the same. Avida can be set to have fixed genome size or unconstrained genome size. Avida-ED uses a fixed size of 50. Avida and Avida-ED allow the setting of the mutation rate, which is a per-site rate, and mutation happens probabilistically. A standard initial exercise with Avida-ED is to have a class set a particular mutation rate, have all students put an organism in the organism viewer, run, and count the number of mutations in the offspring. The numbers are collected, and those show a gaussian distribution that comes close to the set mutation rate. That sort of demonstration is impossible in Minivida because looking even a little like what happens in biology isn't even on their radar.

Minivida only provides the current best genome for display, and it shows a diagram of a circuit, often with several levels, and I haven't found any explanation of what they are showing and how it is supposed to relate to Avida. The code looks to be picking out the math and logical operators from the organism program and showing transformations and sources going back to inputs. As the Minivida program goes on, the graphics are continuously changing. In Avida, small mutation rates mean that one is pretty likely to end up with Avidians that are accurate copies of it. So the best organism in an Avida population may well be the parent of an identical best Avidian in a later generation; one can see some stability of best Avidian. This does not appear to be the case for Minivida, where getting an accurate copy of a Minivida program will only happen 1/26th of the time. In Avida-ED and Minivida, one can pause the program at any point in a run. In Avida-ED, one then can examine any Avidian in the grid, see its genome, watch how its execution runs, and see a possible offspring from its replication, and examine various other statistics about the population, plus charts of several different population-level properties. In Minivida, only the best genome and a circuit representation of it can be seen.

The sorts of things one can use Avida-ED to demonstrate in a classroom on first introduction can be seen in the Lab Manual, in curriculum guides, and in various YouTube video tutorials. Assessments of the utility of Avida-ED are presented in peer-reviewed research, such as the example the DI got hurt feelings over. As far as I can tell, the notion that Minivida has something to show people relative to Avida-ED is unfounded. You can go through the Minivida code and note all the "TODO" lick-and-promise points in its incomplete approach to mimicking Avida. You can look for, and fail to find, documentation that would show any useful educational purpose for Minivida.

Now, I'll give the antievolutionists pushing Minivida and misguided critiques of Avida and Avida-ED one prop, which is that they haven't minified their Javascript or otherwise obfuscated the source to make it harder to see just how dreadful it is. (And I hope that observation doesn't lead them to do just that.)

But the DI did give Diane and I something else to have in common: we both now have the public disapproval of the DI.

Read it and choke:

Avida, evolution by intelligent design

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,07:19   

I posted a list of meaning for "evolution":

1. Change over time; history of nature; any sequence of events in nature

2. Changes in the frequencies of alleles in the gene pool of a population

3. Limited common descent: the idea that particular groups of organisms have descended from a common ancestor.

4. The mechanisms responsible for the change required to produce limited descent with modification, chiefly natural selection acting on random variations or mutations.

5. Universal common descent: the idea that all organisms have descended from a single common ancestor.

6. “Blind watchmaker” thesis: the idea that all organisms have descended from common ancestors solely through an unguided, unintelligent, purposeless, material processes such as natural selection acting on random variations or mutations; that the mechanisms of natural selection, random variation and mutation, and perhaps other similarly naturalistic mechanisms, are completely sufficient to account for the appearance of design in living organisms.

Then comes dick and dave to add two more meanings to the list:

7) CDesign Proponentist

8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Are 7 & 8 really meanings of "evolution"? Or are Dickie and Davey just ignorant tools?

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,17:51   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 22 2018,21:14)
Ya but sooper-genius-confined-to-his-pigpen disagrees and he knows more than anybody!

Bring it on- I am very open to debating this topic. However AVIDA isn't a genetic algorithm and my comments pertain to GA's.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
k.e..



Posts: 4855
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,18:37   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2018,01:51)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 22 2018,21:14)
Ya but sooper-genius-confined-to-his-pigpen disagrees and he knows more than anybody!

Bring it on- I am very open to debating this topic. However AVIDA isn't a genetic algorithm and my comments pertain to GA's.

Joe your mind is so open bats have flown in.

Your best one so far is "your own personal designer" doesn't require gods. That designer must be a unique joe bat brain  designer because everyone besides you thinks it is the god of the Abrahamic religious faiths.

Is that why you are here? Because all the other idiots think you're even more of an idiot than they are? They wont let you post on their church notice board?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3052
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,18:52   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,06:57)
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

Joke, how to you objectively tell if two species are the same created, er, Intelligently Designed "kind"?

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2904
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,18:58   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,04:57)
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

You have yet to indicate what it does require. Why are you so coy / reticent / disingenuous / uninterested in discovering who or what the designer might be? It's almost like you don't want anyone to find out...

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3052
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,19:16   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 23 2018,18:58)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,04:57)
 
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

You have yet to indicate what it does require. Why are you so coy / reticent / disingenuous / uninterested in discovering who or what the designer might be? It's almost like you don't want anyone to find out...

Joke slipped up last week and told us all the scientific evidence supports separately created, er, "designed" kinds.  Yet when questioned on his claims he suddenly forgot what evidence that was and couldn't explain how he made the determination.   I've looked all through the copious ID scientific literature but can't find a single mention of baraminology or designed "kinds".  But Joke tells us he's an ID expert and swears it is true.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,19:21   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 23 2018,18:58)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,04:57)
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

You have yet to indicate what it does require. Why are you so coy / reticent / disingenuous / uninterested in discovering who or what the designer might be? It's almost like you don't want anyone to find out...

ID is about the DESIGN. And ID says that DESIGN requires an intelligent designer. We don't know who the intelligent designer is. All we have is the evidence that one existed.

ID doesn't prevent anyone from trying to figure out who the intelligent designer is.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,19:24   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 23 2018,19:16)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 23 2018,18:58)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,04:57)
   
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

You have yet to indicate what it does require. Why are you so coy / reticent / disingenuous / uninterested in discovering who or what the designer might be? It's almost like you don't want anyone to find out...

Joke slipped up last week and told us all the scientific evidence supports separately created, er, "designed" kinds.  Yet when questioned on his claims he suddenly forgot what evidence that was and couldn't explain how he made the determination.   I've looked all through the copious ID scientific literature but can't find a single mention of baraminology or designed "kinds".  But Joke tells us he's an ID expert and swears it is true.

timmy is a willfully ignorant asshole. I never made the claim it sez I made.

What I said was that all experiments and observations support baraminology, ie the case for limited descent with modification.

That doesn't have anything to do with any ID claims and I never said otherwise. What I said is a fact of life. It is what it is. And it is very telling that timmy is too stupid to understand it.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,20:39   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 23 2018,18:37)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2018,01:51)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 22 2018,21:14)
Ya but sooper-genius-confined-to-his-pigpen disagrees and he knows more than anybody!

Bring it on- I am very open to debating this topic. However AVIDA isn't a genetic algorithm and my comments pertain to GA's.

Joe your mind is so open bats have flown in.

Your best one so far is "your own personal designer" doesn't require gods. That designer must be a unique joe bat brain  designer because everyone besides you thinks it is the god of the Abrahamic religious faiths.

Is that why you are here? Because all the other idiots think you're even more of an idiot than they are? They wont let you post on their church notice board?

dave, you ignorant slut:

"The Design Revolution", page 25, Dembski writes:
Quote

Intelligent Design has theological implications, but it is not a theological enterprise. Theology does not own intelligent design. Intelligent design is not a evangelical Christian thing, or a generally Christian thing or even a generally theistic thing. Anyone willing to set aside naturalistic prejudices and consider the possibility of evidence for intelligence in the natural world is a friend of intelligent design.

Quote
Intelligent design requires neither a meddling God nor a meddled world. For that matter, it doesn't even require there be a God.


Guillermo Gonzalez told the AP that “Darwinism does not mandate followers to adopt atheism; just as intelligent design doesn't require a belief in God.”

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,20:43   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 23 2018,18:52)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,06:57)
 
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

Joke, how to you objectively tell if two species are the same created, er, Intelligently Designed "kind"?

Occam's Assface-

Science. The same science that supports limited descent with modification. You still don't have a mechanism capable of producing anything more than more prokaryotes and that is given starting populations of prokaryotes.

Stop trying to blame me for your FAILures. It just makes you look like desperate assholes. But then again you don't seem to care.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6658
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,20:46   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 23 2018,18:37)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 24 2018,01:51)
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 22 2018,21:14)
Ya but sooper-genius-confined-to-his-pigpen disagrees and he knows more than anybody!

Bring it on- I am very open to debating this topic. However AVIDA isn't a genetic algorithm and my comments pertain to GA's.

Joe your mind is so open bats have flown in.

Your best one so far is "your own personal designer" doesn't require gods. That designer must be a unique joe bat brain  designer because everyone besides you thinks it is the god of the Abrahamic religious faiths.

Is that why you are here? Because all the other idiots think you're even more of an idiot than they are? They wont let you post on their church notice board?

And dumbass, what ID requires and what people think about the designer are two separate things. You must be one desperate jackass.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3052
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 23 2018,21:44   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,19:24)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 23 2018,19:16)
 
Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 23 2018,18:58)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 23 2018,04:57)
     
Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 22 2018,23:52)
8) The god of the Abrahamic faiths did it.

Except ID doesn't require God. Thank you for proving that you are  intellectual cowards.

ID is not anti-evolution and evoTARDs cannot form a coherent argument to the contrary.

You have yet to indicate what it does require. Why are you so coy / reticent / disingenuous / uninterested in discovering who or what the designer might be? It's almost like you don't want anyone to find out...

Joke slipped up last week and told us all the scientific evidence supports separately created, er, "designed" kinds.  Yet when questioned on his claims he suddenly forgot what evidence that was and couldn't explain how he made the determination.   I've looked all through the copious ID scientific literature but can't find a single mention of baraminology or designed "kinds".  But Joke tells us he's an ID expert and swears it is true.

timmy is a willfully ignorant asshole. I never made the claim it sez I made.

What I said was that all experiments and observations support baraminology, ie the case for limited descent with modification.

That doesn't have anything to do with any ID claims and I never said otherwise. What I said is a fact of life. It is what it is. And it is very telling that timmy is too stupid to understand it.

If all experiments support Biblical baraminology and all experiments support ID then ID is just repackaged Biblical baraminology

Damn you're a dumb one Joke.  Now tell us how you determined there are different created / designed "kinds".

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
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