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Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:47   

Quote
Loci that are obviously variable within natural populations do not seem to lie at the basis of many major adaptive changes, while those loci that seemingly do constitute the foundation of many if not most major adaptive changes are not variable.- John McDonald, “The Molecular Basis of Adaptation: A Critical Review of Relevant Ideas and Observation”, Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics: 14, 1983, p77-102 (bold added)


Different genes involved and that is why micro doesn't add up to macro

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3136
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:47   

page bump

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:48   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,15:46)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:22)
 
Quote
Loci that are obviously variable within natural populations do not seem to lie at the basis of many major adaptive changes, while those loci that seemingly do constitute the foundation of many if not most major adaptive changes are not variable.- John McDonald, “The Molecular Basis of Adaptation: A Critical Review of Relevant Ideas and Observation”, Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics: 14, 1983, p77-102 (bold added)


Different genes involved. That is why micro doesn't add up to macro

Nonsensical non answer noted.

Chickenshit Joke dodges the question again.  Maybe he mistook it for a salad.   :D

BWAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It is only "nonsensical" to the scientifically illiterate and cry-baby cowards.

Nice own goal

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:50   

We don't even know what determines form:
Quote
To understand the challenge to the “superwatch” model by the erosion of the gene-centric view of nature, it is necessary to recall August Weismann’s seminal insight more than a century ago regarding the need for genetic determinants to specify organic form. As Weismann saw so clearly, in order to account for the unerring transmission through time with precise reduplication, for each generation of “complex contingent assemblages of matter” (superwatches), it is necessary to propose the existence of stable abstract genetic blueprints or programs in the genes- he called them “determinants”- sequestered safely in the germ plasm, away from the ever varying and destabilizing influences of the extra-genetic environment.

Such carefully isolated determinants would theoretically be capable of reliably transmitting contingent order through time and specifying it reliably each generation. Thus, the modern “gene-centric” view of life was born, and with it the heroic twentieth century effort to identify Weismann’s determinants, supposed to be capable of reliably specifying in precise detail all the contingent order of the phenotype. Weismann was correct in this: the contingent view of form and indeed the entire mechanistic conception of life- the superwatch model- is critically dependent on showing that all or at least the vast majority of organic form is specified in precise detail in the genes.

Yet by the late 1980s it was becoming obvious to most genetic researchers, including myself, since my own main research interest in the ‘80s and ‘90s was human genetics, that the heroic effort to find information specifying life’s order in the genes had failed. There was no longer the slightest justification for believing there exists anything in the genome remotely resembling a program capable of specifying in detail all the complex order of the phenotype. The emerging picture made it increasingly difficult to see genes as Weismann’s “unambiguous bearers of information” or view them as the sole source of the durability and stability of organic form. It is true that genes influence every aspect of development, but influencing something is not the same as determining it. Only a small fraction of all known genes, such as the developmental fate switching genes, can be imputed to have any sort of directing or controlling influence on form generation. From being “isolated directors” of a one-way game of life, genes are now considered to be interactive players in a dynamic two-way dance of almost unfathomable complexity, as described by Keller in The Century of The Gene- Michael Denton “An Anti-Darwinian Intellectual Journey”, Uncommon Dissent (2004), pages 171-2


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3136
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:52   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:47)
     
Quote
Loci that are obviously variable within natural populations do not seem to lie at the basis of many major adaptive changes, while those loci that seemingly do constitute the foundation of many if not most major adaptive changes are not variable.- John McDonald, “The Molecular Basis of Adaptation: A Critical Review of Relevant Ideas and Observation”, Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics: 14, 1983, p77-102 (bold added)


Different genes involved and that is why micro doesn't add up to macro


What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?   Why can't those genes change?

Dunmass Joke has no answers.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:54   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,15:52)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:47)
     
Quote
Loci that are obviously variable within natural populations do not seem to lie at the basis of many major adaptive changes, while those loci that seemingly do constitute the foundation of many if not most major adaptive changes are not variable.- John McDonald, “The Molecular Basis of Adaptation: A Critical Review of Relevant Ideas and Observation”, Annual Review of Ecology and Systematics: 14, 1983, p77-102 (bold added)


Different genes involved and that is why micro doesn't add up to macro


What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal's limbs into cetacean's fin?   Why can't those genes change?

Dunmass Joke has no answers.

Evidence, asshole. As in you don't have any. You don't know if there are any genetic changes capable of producing terrestrial animal limbs from fish fins. You don't have any way to test the claim.

YOU don't have any answers, loser.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,15:57   

Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3136
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:01   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:57)
 
Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.


Funny then there's so much scientific literature on genes that don't exist

Molecular evolution tracks macroevolutionary transitions in Cetacea

Joke you really are an ignorant dumbass's dumbass.  :D

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:07   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,16:01)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:57)
 
Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.


Funny then there's so much scientific literature on genes that don't exist

Molecular evolution tracks macroevolutionary transitions in Cetacea

Joke you really are an ignorant dumbass's dumbass.  :D

Literature bluff, timmy? Is that the best that you can do?

I bet you can't make a case that the REVIEW paper shows what changes to which genes produced cetacean flippers from land mammal limbs.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:14   

Waiting for TWO mutations

That paper is for two mutations. Two.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11127
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:35   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:42)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,15:37)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,12:46)
BTW all you are doing is proving that you are an illiterate asshole. Nice own goal, assmunch

Illiterate means "unable to read or write". You're replying to his written comments via more text to accuse him of  an "own goal".

Stable Genius!

timmy, and you for that matter, is unable to read for comprehension. That is most likely why you have to quote-mine and bluff.

reading ≠ comprehension. You fail. Again.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11127
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:40   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:14)
Waiting for TWO mutations

That paper is for two mutations. Two.

*Yawn*

http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2015....el.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:51   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,16:40)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:14)
Waiting for TWO mutations

That paper is for two mutations. Two.

*Yawn*

http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2015.......el.html

Yawn, indeed. Gene duplication requires the duplicated gene to have a binding site. And both the binding site and the new gene need to end up on the chromatin where it can be expressed.

To expect this of blind and mindless processes is to accept magic over engineering.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,16:54   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,16:35)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:42)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,15:37)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,12:46)
BTW all you are doing is proving that you are an illiterate asshole. Nice own goal, assmunch

Illiterate means "unable to read or write". You're replying to his written comments via more text to accuse him of  an "own goal".

Stable Genius!

timmy, and you for that matter, is unable to read for comprehension. That is most likely why you have to quote-mine and bluff.

reading ≠ comprehension. You fail. Again.

read

Quote
look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed:


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11127
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:08   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:54)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,16:35)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:42)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,15:37)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,12:46)
BTW all you are doing is proving that you are an illiterate asshole. Nice own goal, assmunch

Illiterate means "unable to read or write". You're replying to his written comments via more text to accuse him of  an "own goal".

Stable Genius!

timmy, and you for that matter, is unable to read for comprehension. That is most likely why you have to quote-mine and bluff.

reading ≠ comprehension. You fail. Again.

read

Quote
look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed:

At a level you might comprehend. I'm sure you can read it all, though: http://www.k12reader.com/what-is....hension

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:09   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,17:08)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:54)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,16:35)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:42)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,15:37)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,12:46)
BTW all you are doing is proving that you are an illiterate asshole. Nice own goal, assmunch

Illiterate means "unable to read or write". You're replying to his written comments via more text to accuse him of  an "own goal".

Stable Genius!

timmy, and you for that matter, is unable to read for comprehension. That is most likely why you have to quote-mine and bluff.

reading ≠ comprehension. You fail. Again.

read

 
Quote
look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed:

At a level you might comprehend. I'm sure you can read it all, though: http://www.k12reader.com/what-is....hension

Whatever. Reading and comprehension go hand in hand. You FAILed

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11127
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:16   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:09)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,17:08)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:54)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,16:35)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:42)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,15:37)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,12:46)
BTW all you are doing is proving that you are an illiterate asshole. Nice own goal, assmunch

Illiterate means "unable to read or write". You're replying to his written comments via more text to accuse him of  an "own goal".

Stable Genius!

timmy, and you for that matter, is unable to read for comprehension. That is most likely why you have to quote-mine and bluff.

reading ≠ comprehension. You fail. Again.

read

 
Quote
look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed:

At a level you might comprehend. I'm sure you can read it all, though: http://www.k12reader.com/what-is....hension

Whatever. Reading and comprehension go hand in hand. You FAILed

I could give you a book in a foreign language. You could read the text. You wouldn't understand it.

And either way, writing to the "illiterate" makes no sense.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:20   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,17:16)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:09)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,17:08)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:54)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,16:35)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:42)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,15:37)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,12:46)
BTW all you are doing is proving that you are an illiterate asshole. Nice own goal, assmunch

Illiterate means "unable to read or write". You're replying to his written comments via more text to accuse him of  an "own goal".

Stable Genius!

timmy, and you for that matter, is unable to read for comprehension. That is most likely why you have to quote-mine and bluff.

reading ≠ comprehension. You fail. Again.

read

   
Quote
look at and comprehend the meaning of (written or printed matter) by mentally interpreting the characters or symbols of which it is composed:

At a level you might comprehend. I'm sure you can read it all, though: http://www.k12reader.com/what-is....hension

Whatever. Reading and comprehension go hand in hand. You FAILed

I could give you a book in a foreign language. You could read the text. You wouldn't understand it.

And either way, writing to the "illiterate" makes no sense.

Except I am not reading it if I don't understand it. I may be trying to read it but that would be about it.

Both you and timmy lack reading comprehension skills. Deal with it

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3136
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:28   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:07)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,16:01)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:57)
     
Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.


Funny then there's so much scientific literature on genes that don't exist

Molecular evolution tracks macroevolutionary transitions in Cetacea

Joke you really are an ignorant dumbass's dumbass.  :D

Literature bluff, timmy? Is that the best that you can do?

I bet you can't make a case that the REVIEW paper shows what changes to which genes produced cetacean flippers from land mammal limbs.

As expected showing Joke some actual scientific research makes him Hershey squirt his pants and run the other way.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:38   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,17:28)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:07)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,16:01)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:57)
     
Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.


Funny then there's so much scientific literature on genes that don't exist

Molecular evolution tracks macroevolutionary transitions in Cetacea

Joke you really are an ignorant dumbass's dumbass.  :D

Literature bluff, timmy? Is that the best that you can do?

I bet you can't make a case that the REVIEW paper shows what changes to which genes produced cetacean flippers from land mammal limbs.

As expected showing Joke some actual scientific research makes him Hershey squirt his pants and run the other way.

OK so you didn't read the paper and you can't make your case. Just say that, timmy.

Do you really think that numerous just-so deformities can turn a land mammal's limb into a cetacean flipper? They don't even know how many nor even if it can be done. All they have done is identify the HOX family involved. The same HOX family that your position cannot account for.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3136
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:43   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:38)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,17:28)
 
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:07)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,16:01)
     
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:57)
         
Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.


Funny then there's so much scientific literature on genes that don't exist

Molecular evolution tracks macroevolutionary transitions in Cetacea

Joke you really are an ignorant dumbass's dumbass.  :D

Literature bluff, timmy? Is that the best that you can do?

I bet you can't make a case that the REVIEW paper shows what changes to which genes produced cetacean flippers from land mammal limbs.

As expected showing Joke some actual scientific research makes him Hershey squirt his pants and run the other way.

OK so you didn't read the paper and you can't make your case. Just say that, timmy.

Do you really think that numerous just-so deformities can turn a land mammal's limb into a cetacean flipper? They don't even know how many nor even if it can be done. All they have done is identify the HOX family involved. The same HOX family that your position cannot account for.

Stick to your YEC baraminology Joke.  This science stuff is so far over your head it leaves contrails.

--------------
"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

Whizz-dumb from Joe Gallien, world's dumbest YEC

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:44   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,17:43)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:38)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,17:28)
   
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,16:07)
     
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,16:01)
       
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,15:57)
         
Quote
What genes are involved in evolving a terrestrial animal species limbs into cetacean's fins?  


There aren't any known genes that could be involved in such a thing.


Funny then there's so much scientific literature on genes that don't exist

Molecular evolution tracks macroevolutionary transitions in Cetacea

Joke you really are an ignorant dumbass's dumbass.  :D

Literature bluff, timmy? Is that the best that you can do?

I bet you can't make a case that the REVIEW paper shows what changes to which genes produced cetacean flippers from land mammal limbs.

As expected showing Joke some actual scientific research makes him Hershey squirt his pants and run the other way.

OK so you didn't read the paper and you can't make your case. Just say that, timmy.

Do you really think that numerous just-so deformities can turn a land mammal's limb into a cetacean flipper? They don't even know how many nor even if it can be done. All they have done is identify the HOX family involved. The same HOX family that your position cannot account for.

Stick to your YEC baraminology Joe.  This science stuff is so far over your head it leaves contrails.

Stick to your bathroom crawling timmy. You don't know what science is.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 3136
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:49   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:38)
Do you really think that numerous just-so deformities can turn a land mammal's limb into a cetacean flipper? They don't even know how many nor even if it can be done. All they have done is identify the HOX family involved. The same HOX family that your position cannot account for.

Damn but you are one ignorant dumbass Joke

 
Quote
Sequence Variation in the Tbx4 Gene in Marine Mammals

Abstract: The amino-acid sequences of the T-domain region of the Tbx4 gene, which is required for hindlimb development, are 100% identical in humans and mice. Cetaceans have lost most of their hindlimb structure, although hindlimb buds are present in very early cetacean embryos. To examine whether the Tbx4 gene has the same function in cetaceans as in other mammals, we analyzed Tbx4 sequences from cetaceans, dugong, artiodactyls and marine carnivores. A total of 39 primers were designed using human and dog Tbx4 nucleotide sequences. Exons 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 of the Tbx4 genes from cetaceans, artiodactyls, and marine carnivores were sequenced. Non-synonymous substitution sites were detected in the T-domain regions from some cetacean species, but were not detected in those from artiodactyls, the dugong, or the carnivores. The C-terminal regions contained a number of non-synonymous substitutions. Although some indels were present, they were in groups of three nucleotides and therefore did not cause frame shifts. The dN/dS values for the T-domain and C-terminal regions of the cetacean and artiodactylous Tbx4 genes were much lower than 1, indicating that the Tbx4 gene maintains it function in cetaceans, although full expression leading to hindlimb development is suppressed.


I suppose your Designer accidentally left the unexpressed tbx4 genes in cetaceans.

What a moron.

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"CO2 can't re-emit any trapped heat unless all the molecules point the right way"
"Global warming can't be real because it still gets cooler at night"
"All the evidence supports Creation baraminology"

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Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:51   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,17:49)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:38)
Do you really think that numerous just-so deformities can turn a land mammal's limb into a cetacean flipper? They don't even know how many nor even if it can be done. All they have done is identify the HOX family involved. The same HOX family that your position cannot account for.

Damn but you are one ignorant dumbass Joke

   
Quote
Sequence Variation in the Tbx4 Gene in Marine Mammals

Abstract: The amino-acid sequences of the T-domain region of the Tbx4 gene, which is required for hindlimb development, are 100% identical in humans and mice. Cetaceans have lost most of their hindlimb structure, although hindlimb buds are present in very early cetacean embryos. To examine whether the Tbx4 gene has the same function in cetaceans as in other mammals, we analyzed Tbx4 sequences from cetaceans, dugong, artiodactyls and marine carnivores. A total of 39 primers were designed using human and dog Tbx4 nucleotide sequences. Exons 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 of the Tbx4 genes from cetaceans, artiodactyls, and marine carnivores were sequenced. Non-synonymous substitution sites were detected in the T-domain regions from some cetacean species, but were not detected in those from artiodactyls, the dugong, or the carnivores. The C-terminal regions contained a number of non-synonymous substitutions. Although some indels were present, they were in groups of three nucleotides and therefore did not cause frame shifts. The dN/dS values for the T-domain and C-terminal regions of the cetacean and artiodactylous Tbx4 genes were much lower than 1, indicating that the Tbx4 gene maintains it function in cetaceans, although full expression leading to hindlimb development is suppressed.


I suppose your Designer accidentally left the unexpressed tbx4 genes in cetaceans.

What a moron.

And just how does blind and mindless processes explain that? Show your work.

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Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,17:52   

Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 15 2018,17:49)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2018,17:38)
Do you really think that numerous just-so deformities can turn a land mammal's limb into a cetacean flipper? They don't even know how many nor even if it can be done. All they have done is identify the HOX family involved. The same HOX family that your position cannot account for.

Damn but you are one ignorant dumbass Joke

   
Quote
Sequence Variation in the Tbx4 Gene in Marine Mammals

Abstract: The amino-acid sequences of the T-domain region of the Tbx4 gene, which is required for hindlimb development, are 100% identical in humans and mice. Cetaceans have lost most of their hindlimb structure, although hindlimb buds are present in very early cetacean embryos. To examine whether the Tbx4 gene has the same function in cetaceans as in other mammals, we analyzed Tbx4 sequences from cetaceans, dugong, artiodactyls and marine carnivores. A total of 39 primers were designed using human and dog Tbx4 nucleotide sequences. Exons 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 of the Tbx4 genes from cetaceans, artiodactyls, and marine carnivores were sequenced. Non-synonymous substitution sites were detected in the T-domain regions from some cetacean species, but were not detected in those from artiodactyls, the dugong, or the carnivores. The C-terminal regions contained a number of non-synonymous substitutions. Although some indels were present, they were in groups of three nucleotides and therefore did not cause frame shifts. The dN/dS values for the T-domain and C-terminal regions of the cetacean and artiodactylous Tbx4 genes were much lower than 1, indicating that the Tbx4 gene maintains it function in cetaceans, although full expression leading to hindlimb development is suppressed.


I suppose your Designer accidentally left the unexpressed tbx4 genes in cetaceans.

Why would it be accidental?

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11127
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,19:29   

https://books.google.com/books...._button

Written with Joe in mind.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,19:36   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 15 2018,19:29)
https://books.google.com/books......_button

Written with Joe in mind.

Dick the projectionist strikes again.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2953
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2018,20:11   

Clearly some variation in  FOXP2 here..

--------------
"[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory

"Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

  
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2018,08:16   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 15 2018,20:11)
Clearly some variation in  FOXP2 here..

FOXp2, just another gene evolution by means of blind and mindless processes cannot account for.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
Joe G



Posts: 6913
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2018,09:06   

keiths continues to puke all over himself when it comes to nested hierarchies. And even though it has been proven that Doug Theobald is totally wrong keiths continues to reference him on nested hierarchies. Theobald wrongly spews:

Quote
The only known processes that specifically generate unique, nested, hierarchical patterns are branching evolutionary processes.


WRONG! Linnaean Taxonomy is an objective nested hierarchy and it doesn't have anything to do with branching evolutionary processes. Corporations can be placed in objective nested hierarchies and again they have nothing to do with branching evolutionary processes. The US Army is a nested hierarchy and it too has nothing to do with branching evolutionary processes.

Clearly Theobald is ignorant of nested hierarchies. He goes on to spew:  

Quote
It would be very problematic if many species were found that combined characteristics of different nested groupings


Umm, TRANSITIONAL FORMs have combined characteristics of different nested groups, Dougy. And your position expects numerous transitional forms.

But Doug's biggest mistake was saying that phylogenies form a nested hierarchy- they don't as explained in the Knox paper-  “The use of hierarchies as organizational models in systematics”, Biological Journal of the Linnaean Society, 63: 1–49, 1998.

And for fuck's sake even Darwin knew that if you tried to include all of the alleged transitional forms you couldn't form distinguished groups:    

Quote
Extinction has only defined the groups: it has by no means made them; for if every form which has ever lived on this earth were suddenly to reappear, though it would be quite impossible to give definitions by which each group could be distinguished, still a natural classification, or at least a natural arrangement, would be possible.- Charles Darwin chapter 14



Nested hierarchies require distinct and distinguished groups- again see Linnaean Taxonomy. AND nested hierarchies are artificial constructs.

So only by cherry picking would Common Descent yield a nested hierarchy.

And I understand why the losers here don't want to discuss it.

Zachriel, Alan Fox and John Harshman are also totally ignorant when it comes to nested hierarchies. Now I know why I was banned from the skeptical zone- so I couldn't refute their nonsense to their faces. This way they can continue to ignore reality and prattle on like a bunch of ignoramuses.

Sad, really. Here is another hint from the Knox paper:

Quote
Regardless of what is eventually learned about the evolution of Clarkia/Heterogaura, the complex nature of evolutionary processes yields patterns that are more complex than can be represented by the simple hierarchical models of either monophyletic systematization or Linnaean classification.


Notice the either or at the end? Only Linnaean classification is the objective nested hierarchy with respect to biology. And what does UC Berkley say about Linnaean classification?:  

Quote
Most of us are accustomed to the Linnaean system of classification that assigns every organism a kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species, which, among other possibilities, has the handy mnemonic King Philip Came Over For Good Soup. This system was created long before scientists understood that organisms evolved. Because the Linnaean system is not based on evolution, most biologists are switching to a classification system that reflects the organisms' evolutionary history.



and
 
Quote
*The standard system of classification in which every organism is assigned a kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, and species. This system groups organisms into ever smaller and smaller groups (like a series of boxes within boxes, called a nested hierarchy).


It was based on a common design scheme.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

simple English (hint: "equal" and "interchangeable" aren't synonyms)- JohnW

"Shit is a code and I like my fudge packed tight"  timmy horton

timmy Horton says YEC is science and evolutionism is nonsense

   
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