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Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,09:39    On that thread where Behe (father of irreducable complexity.. you know, you can't take bits out and still have it work) talks about E coli, Sal offers this: http://www.uncommondescent.com/evoluti....-290334 Quote Biological systems are deeply redundant, and system behaviors of the redundant system resist easy characterization by selection. This is the power of ID. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,09:53    DaveScot opines: Quote Citrate digestion is a real yawner. If that’s all it is, it’s really pathetic and is really a world class example of the lack of any compelling evidence for RM+NS as a mechanism capable of driving creative evolution. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,10:13    Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2008,09:53) DaveScot opines: Quote Citrate digestion is a real yawner. If that’s all it is, it’s really pathetic and is really a world class example of the lack of any compelling evidence for RM+NS as a mechanism capable of driving creative evolution. Someone do a "lemons" joke. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,10:33    Sal adds Quote I’m surprised you’d objected, I figured such forms of argumentation are acceptable to you since I suspect you believe in Darwinian evolution (which is based on equivocation and double speak). Am I wrong to suppose you believe in Darwinian evolution? Link Yep, equivocation, double speak and evidence. Honestly if evolution is equivocation and double speak then what does that make ID? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

carlsonjok Posts: 3326 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,10:42    I'm surprised no one has commented on this little gem from Davescot: Quote 25 DaveScot 06/10/2008 7:09 am dmso74 It’s obvious you have not read The Edge of Evolution either. Why do you people insist on criticizing things you know nothing about? Don’t you realize it makes you look ignorant and lazy? Hit a little too close to home, chance worshippers? -------------- It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,10:55    Quote (carlsonjok @ June 10 2008,10:42) I'm surprised no one has commented on this little gem from Davescot:   Quote 25 DaveScot 06/10/2008 7:09 am dmso74 It’s obvious you have not read The Edge of Evolution either. Why do you people insist on criticizing things you know nothing about? Don’t you realize it makes you look ignorant and lazy? Hit a little too close to home, chance worshippers? Davetard moans   Quote Why do you people insist on criticizing things you know nothing about? Don’t you realize it makes you look ignorant and lazy? Yet he is clearly clueless as he flails against the Strawman that is RM + NS -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

deejay Posts: 113 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,12:48    Quote (carlsonjok @ June 10 2008,11:42) I'm surprised no one has commented on this little gem from Davescot: I thought it would be fun to check out this thread, as it was the rare UD post to address evolutionary biology.  My experience in 7 easy steps: 1.  Make the mistake of thinking the OP was written by "Patrick" 2.  Laugh at Patrick as he put on grown-up clothes and pretended to be a scientist interpreting experimental findings 3.  Realize with horror that it was actually written by Behe 4.  Simultaneously cringe and laugh at the fact that this is the best material written by ID's best author 5.  Unequivocally laugh as broadbill uses the first comment to demolish the post 6.  Simultaneously cringe and laugh as DS uses the second comment to threaten bannination 7.  Rinse and repeat.  They're every bit as transparent as they were when I first found them 2 1/2 years ago. I did scroll down far enough to find DS's analysis that Behe's math is "incontrovertable".  UD is the gift that keeps on giving, provided your idea of a gift is a big shiny new box of stupid.

Tracy P. Hamilton Posts: 1239 Joined: May 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,12:54    Quote (Richardthughes @ June 10 2008,01:25) Gil thinks E Coli and man have exactly same evolutionary mechanisms at their disposal..as well as similar environment landscape changes I guess.. http://www.uncommondescent.com/evoluti....-290312 Gil, honey, this thing you think you're researching...... ain't evolution. Gil's head and E. coli are in the same environment. -------------- "Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV "The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen "We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,12:58    Quote (deejay @ June 10 2008,12:48) 1.  Make the mistake of thinking the OP was written by "Patrick" Patrick has some very lax ideas when it comes to attribution. I can dig up some links if you are interested? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,13:02    Ekstasis says: Quote Since everyone is performing these fantastic mathematical computations, I will simply conjur up a point backed up by third grade mathematics, and then return to my seat in the back of the class, and take the short bus home after the bell rings. 30,000 generations of e. coli, and presto, we get a new constructive function, the ability to utilize citrate. Now, 30,000 advanced primate generations, at 20 years per generation, equals 600,000 years. So, a billion years equals less than 2,000 generations. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

SpeedDemon Posts: 22 Joined: Oct. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,13:46    Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2008,13:02) Ekstasis says:   Quote Since everyone is performing these fantastic mathematical computations, I will simply conjur up a point backed up by third grade mathematics, and then return to my seat in the back of the class, and take the short bus home after the bell rings. I think even the shortest bus is still really long for Ekstasis.

Richardthughes Posts: 11178 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,15:14    Quote (SpeedDemon @ June 10 2008,13:46) Quote (midwifetoad @ June 10 2008,13:02) Ekstasis says:     Quote Since everyone is performing these fantastic mathematical computations, I will simply conjur up a point backed up by third grade mathematics, and then return to my seat in the back of the class, and take the short bus home after the bell rings. I think even the shortest bus is still really long for Ekstasis. The Plank Length Bus. -------------- "Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield "You magnificent bastard! " : Louis "ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard "I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932 "...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

midwifetoad Posts: 4003 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,15:24    Good thing Billy D is a mathematician. I'm sure he can correct third grade arithmetic. -------------- Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

dogdidit Posts: 315 Joined: Mar. 2008 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,15:36    BA77: Quote Venter, reservedly, talks, in the video, of the interwoven complexity of the bacteria that prevents the genome from being reduced much below approximately 500 genes. Denyse: Quote Re “disparage” as a cue word, Bill was thinking, of course, of a recent punishment handed out by the Alberta “human rights” commission Is BA77, taking, writing lessons, from, Denyse? I'd call sockpuppet but BA77 seems to be able to get through a paragraph without a single scare quote. Denyse goes through them like a chain smoker with a brand new carton of Lucky Strikes. -------------- "Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

Advocatus Diaboli Posts: 198 Joined: Nov. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,16:23    Behe's recent post can be summarized thusly: -------------- I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong. "I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot "Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova "UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,20:00    Denyse says: Quote 3. Ignore legacy media: Don’t expect the legacy media to be much help. In fact, as the National Review editors noted recently... Wikipedia says: Quote National Review (NR) is a biweekly magazine and web site, founded by author William F. Buckley, Jr. in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion."[1]

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,20:10    Bill Dembski says Quote How soon before it is illegal to disparage Darwin in the U.S.? In Soviet Russia, stupid questions ask you!

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,20:17    Quote 4 Eric Anderson 06/09/2008 3:44 pm ...I particularly love the irony here, as Avida — in my view — inadvertently provided support for Behe’s idea of irreducible complexity. Now e-coli will likely end up demonstrating empirically what Behe has been arguing in Edge of Evolution. http://www.uncommondescent.com/evoluti....omments That's like some kind of Gordian Knot of tard. You don't know where to even begin untangling it.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,21:30    Quote (stevestory @ June 10 2008,21:00) Denyse says:     Quote 3. Ignore legacy media: Don’t expect the legacy media to be much help. In fact, as the National Review editors noted recently... Wikipedia says:     Quote National Review (NR) is a biweekly magazine and web site, founded by author William F. Buckley, Jr. in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion."[1] As I recall, Denyse has a problem with bi... -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,21:45    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 10 2008,22:30) As I recall, Denyse has a problem with bi... (rolls eyes) Anti Post of the Week.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,21:48    Quote (stevestory @ June 10 2008,19:10) [URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelligent-design/the-shadow-falls-across-canada-what-does-it-mean-for-the-id-community-in-the-united-states /]Bill Dembski says[/URL]   Quote How soon before it is illegal to disparage Darwin in the U.S.? In Soviet Russia, stupid questions ask you! More context: Quote Re “disparage” as a cue word, Bill was thinking, of course, of a recent punishment handed out by the Alberta “human rights” commission - one of fourteen shadow tribunals - to a Christian pastor, who had spoken out against the gay lifestyle (more below). Ahem. And what would Charles Darwin have to do with speaking out against the gay lifestyle? I don't believe he did, as that "brave" pastor did. Of course, another blot on Darwin's character, right? However, can we name a certain German dictator who killed gays in concentration camps, in the name of "Gott mitt uns"? What's the matter, Denyse and Bill? Are you afraid that soon in the U.S. it will become illegal for you to wish gays into Auschwitz, too? Gawd, what hypocrites! Pretty soon, the good folks at UD will be bitching that they can no longer tell Jews to "convert or die." -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

deejay Posts: 113 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,21:56    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 10 2008,13:58)   Quote (deejay @ June 10 2008,12:48) 1.  Make the mistake of thinking the OP was written by "Patrick" Patrick has some very lax ideas when it comes to attribution. I can dig up some links if you are interested? The attribution is indeed very sloppy, but I'll take the blame for the error.  I'll be glad to read any links for entertainment value -- thanks much in advance.

Kristine Posts: 3061 Joined: Sep. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,21:58    Oh, Denyse goes on to say: Quote Here is a summary he [Ezra Levant] gave before the Canadian Association of Journalists’ meeting this year: Go here to see it. Please note that the original video was removed from YouTube earlier today because of defamation claims, so you may be exposing yourself to a risk is you view this. (You may be exposing yourself to the risk of stunting of the spirit if you don’t.) Has anyone else watched it? I can't hear what Levant is saying over the incessant "Chariots of Fire" theme music, plus the video is heavily edited, and the Human Rights Commissioner Edmonton is hardly allowed to reply - plus, the word "WEASEL" is superimposed on his head! In fact, the video is titled "Levant Kicks Weasel Ass"! Nice. Real objective. -------------- Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip? AtBC Poet Laureate "I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive "Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

bystander Posts: 301 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,22:32    I've just read about e coli on PZ's blog and the whole UD crowd are blithering idjits. So the logic runs: Behe: two mutations are almost impossible e coli paper: three mutations occured here to enable the trait Behe: Ah ha, I am vindicated UD: Stoopid darwinists Or the more probable explanation is that Behe skimmed the paper and nobody else at UD read the paper.

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,23:12    Quote (bystander @ June 10 2008,23:32) I've just read about e coli on PZ's blog and the whole UD crowd are blithering idjits. So the logic runs: Behe: two mutations are almost impossible e coli paper: three mutations occured here to enable the trait Behe: Ah ha, I am vindicated UD: Stoopid darwinists Or the more probable explanation is that Behe skimmed the paper and nobody else at UD read the paper. I urge people to read the PZ post that bystander refers to. Behe comes across as a complete idiot. Linky

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,23:14    I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -Voltaire

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,23:17    Quote The role of historical contingency in evolution has been much debated, but rarely tested. Twelve initially identical populations of Escherichia coli were founded in 1988 to investigate this issue. They have since evolved in a glucose-limited medium that also contains citrate, which E. coli cannot use as a carbon source under oxic conditions. No population evolved the capacity to exploit citrate for >30,000 generations, although each population tested billions of mutations. A citrate-using (Cit(+)) variant finally evolved in one population by 31,500 generations, causing an increase in population size and diversity. "But E. coli are microscopic. Real tiny-like. So this is obviously just microevolution. Tiny evolution. This isn't macroevolution 'cuz macro is 'big' and E.coli are tiny. So Darwin is proven wrong again. USA! USA! USA!" Edited by Lou FCD on June 11 2008,21:49 -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

stevestory Posts: 13407 Joined: Oct. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,23:27    I can't describe the joyous feeling of snorting some straight-up tard from Uncommon Descent. At it's best, it's like being inside a Polyphonic Spree song. If there's some kind of crippling disease which results from chronic tard freebasing, I think they might call it Steve Story Disease.

Lou FCD Posts: 5455 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,23:41    Quote (stevestory @ June 10 2008,22:45) Quote (Lou FCD @ June 10 2008,22:30) As I recall, Denyse has a problem with bi... (rolls eyes) Anti Post of the Week. sheesh. Anyway, I haven't made one of those yet. It'll have to wait until tomorrow, and then I'll bear the mark of shame. -------------- “Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas? Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

Arden Chatfield Posts: 6657 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: June 10 2008,23:54    Quote (Lou FCD @ June 10 2008,21:41)     Quote (stevestory @ June 10 2008,22:45)     Quote (Lou FCD @ June 10 2008,22:30) As I recall, Denyse has a problem with bi... (rolls eyes) Anti Post of the Week. sheesh. Anyway, I haven't made one of those yet. It'll have to wait until tomorrow, and then I'll bear the mark of shame. HA HA THIS IS LOU: -------------- "Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

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