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Woodbine



Posts: 1210
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2014,00:27   

Klinghoffer...
Quote
I was entertaining myself on the way to work this morning listening to Rush Limbaugh....

Kinkhoffer indeed.

  
Driver



Posts: 649
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2014,07:43   

KinkyFluffer:

Quote
As you know, he is the venerable 20-year-old best known for agitating against the Louisiana Science Education Act as a "creationism" law, who was formerly enrolled at Rice University, now an "activist," "journalist," and "television personality." Meaning, I believe, that he is currently neither a student nor otherwise employed.

Yet here is Mr. Kopplin getting a respectful hearing from Education Week and at Slate


Writing articles for Slate would be employment as a journalist. Glad to help.

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Why would I concern myself with evidence, when IMO "evidence" is only the mind arranging thought and matter to support what one already wishes to believe? - William J Murray

[A]t this time a forum like this one is nothing less than a national security risk. - Gary Gaulin

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4930
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2014,08:00   

Quote (Driver @ Jan. 22 2014,07:43)
KinkyFluffer:

Quote
As you know, he is the venerable 20-year-old best known for agitating against the Louisiana Science Education Act as a "creationism" law, who was formerly enrolled at Rice University, now an "activist," "journalist," and "television personality." Meaning, I believe, that he is currently neither a student nor otherwise employed.

Yet here is Mr. Kopplin getting a respectful hearing from Education Week and at Slate


Writing articles for Slate would be employment as a journalist. Glad to help.

If Denyse gets to call herself a journalist, I certainly see no consistent way that they can deny Zach the same classification.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2014,09:44   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Jan. 22 2014,08:00)
Quote (Driver @ Jan. 22 2014,07:43)
KinkyFluffer:

 
Quote
As you know, he is the venerable 20-year-old best known for agitating against the Louisiana Science Education Act as a "creationism" law, who was formerly enrolled at Rice University, now an "activist," "journalist," and "television personality." Meaning, I believe, that he is currently neither a student nor otherwise employed.

Yet here is Mr. Kopplin getting a respectful hearing from Education Week and at Slate


Writing articles for Slate would be employment as a journalist. Glad to help.

If Denyse gets to call herself a journalist, I certainly see no consistent way that they can deny Zach the same classification.

If Denyse is a journalist I am qualified for the Pulitzer prize.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2266
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2014,10:10   

Woo! I was wondering about Denyse being a real journalist, and after googling around a bit I found out that she's on twitter.

Unfortunately, she only tweets links to her own blog posts.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3668
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2014,18:08   

Awesome, I've been nominated as "Censor of the Year" for my review of Darwin's Doubt (which until the ID supporters actually step up and tell me where to look in the book... I'm done with).

Which leads to the question... do these idiots even know what "censor" means?

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 28 2014,18:11   

Blow smoke in a church?



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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 1073
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2014,02:35   

And the winner of Censor of the Year is...(drumroll)...
JERRY COYNE!!!!1!.
Quote
In 2013, Coyne was instrumental in pushing Ball State University in Indiana to formally ban teaching about the scientific theory of intelligent design (ID). The move represents a milestone in the drive to punish critics of Darwinian theory.

Well done, topsy-turvyland people, but please don't stop there; who gets the 2014 Casey Luskin award?

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We no longer say: “Another day; another bad day for Darwinism.” We now say: “Another day since the time Darwinism was disproved.”
-PaV, Uncommon Descent, 19 June 2016

  
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2014,02:42   

You may want to reply to Klinkenstein via Twitter
https://twitter.com/d_kling....ghoffer

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2014,02:44   

BTW, Denys is on twitter as well.
Be sure to inactivate your ironymeters and wear full TARD protection:
https://twitter.com/itsdesi....sdesign

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2266
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2014,03:12   

Quote (sparc @ Feb. 10 2014,02:42)
You may want to reply to Klinkenstein via Twitter
https://twitter.com/d_kling....ghoffer

Done. I wonder if he'll block me.

It won't work, my irony meter is a heavy-duty German contruction. I bought it second-hand after the 2006 world cup - the German police had been using it as a sarcasm meter to monitor English fans.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Amadan



Posts: 1334
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2014,16:01   

Quote (sparc @ Feb. 10 2014,08:44)
BTW, Denys is on twitter as well.
Be sure to inactivate your ironymeters and wear full TARD protection:
https://twitter.com/itsdesi....sdesign

What has been seen...



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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 10 2014,22:46   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 10 2014,03:12)
Quote (sparc @ Feb. 10 2014,02:42)
You may want to reply to Klinkenstein via Twitter
https://twitter.com/d_kling....ghoffer

Done. I wonder if he'll block me.

It won't work, my irony meter is a heavy-duty German contruction. I bought it second-hand after the 2006 world cup - the German police had been using it as a sarcasm meter to monitor English fans.

It won't get better this year.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 11 2014,23:02   

If according to his CV Dembski's sole employment is at the DI why does Faith Bible Church still announce him as
Quote
the Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor of Culture and Science at Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, where he helps head its Institute of Scientific Apologetics.
. (dead link in the original)



To a degree their agenda is kind of honest by not only listing pseudoscientific sessions but also  
Quote

Sunday Morning services (9 & 10:40am) at Faith Bible Church
The Return of the God Hypothesis - Dr. Stephen Meyer


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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2014,23:27   

No new articles. Still, D. Klinghoffer is celbrating Bio-Complexity's 4th birthday (cross-posted from the Bio-Complexity thread)

ETA:
At the same time we celebrate three errata in four years (1 erratum per 5.3 papers)
Erratum for Ewert et al.
Erratum for Ewert et al.
Erratum for Montanez et al.

Edited by sparc on Feb. 12 2014,23:59

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
k.e..



Posts: 4550
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2014,08:07   

That guy is a Tard storm in his own teacup.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Freddie



Posts: 371
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2014,08:15   

What's up with that picture of Meyer?  Looks like he is squeezed into a suit 4x too big for his head ... if I didn't know better i'd say that had been photo-shopped badly!

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Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2014,19:00   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 13 2014,08:15)
What's up with that picture of Meyer? Looks like he is squeezed into a suit 4x too big for his head ... if I didn't know better i'd say that had been photo-shopped badly!



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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 13 2014,22:48   

New footage from the DI summer school:



But are they really educating
Quote
the Next Generation of Scientists and Scholars!

According to World Magazine they are rather preaching the choir.

(edited to close quote tag)

Edited by sparc on Feb. 14 2014,23:31

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
JohnW



Posts: 3037
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2014,15:31   

Quote (sparc @ Feb. 13 2014,20:48)
New footage from the DI summer school:



But are they really educating [quote]the Next Generation of Scientists and Scholars![quote]
According to World Magazine they are rather preaching the choir.

"... and if you want a career in creationism, your sweater needs to be this big..."

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 2608
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2014,16:38   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 13 2014,08:15)
What's up with that picture of Meyer? Looks like he is squeezed into a suit 4x too big for his head ... if I didn't know better i'd say that had been photo-shopped badly!

Separated at birth.



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"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4930
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2014,10:13   

The DI ENV is pushing an article by Stephen Webb that supposedly "schools" Stephen Meredith on IDC and "occasionalism".

Anybody else see the problem in Webb's thing that I do?

Quote

Stephen Merediths Looking for God in All the Wrong Places in the February 2014 issue of First Things accuses Intelligent Design theory (ID) of being a variant of occasionalism, which he defines as the denial that efficient causality occurs outside God. Occasionalism blurs the difference between Gods causal powers, what theologians call primary causation, and the causal powers God builds into nature, what theologians call secondary causation. If God is the efficient cause of every event, then the supernatural replaces rather than guides and completes the natural. Meredith is right that occasionalism is bad theology, but he is wrong that ID is a species of it. In fact, it would be truer to say that Darwinism is.

Merediths definition of occasionalism is accurate, but his claim for its relevance in debates about evolution is not. ID theorists infer their hypothesis from an examination of efficient causality and its empirical limits. They then test their hypothesis by calculating the probability that a specific set of causes can create new biological forms. They might be wrong in everything that they say, but they do not deny efficient causation and thus have no relation to occasionalism.


If Meredith's definition of "occasionalism" is accurate, as stipulated by Webb, it looks to me that the criticism stands. Webb confuses himself or is confused by the standard Behe-Dembski gambit of testing somebody else's hypothesis and claiming that stands as a test of a "hypothesis" of one's own. What Webb describes as being tested is not anything out of IDC; it is an IDC advocate's conception of a hypothesis that would be made in biological evolutionary terms. Judge Jones caught onto this readily enough, that what IDC advocates "test" is evolutionary biology, which is capable of being tested. They don't "test" anything of their own, because they haven't managed thus far to come up with an IDC hypothesis. Webb manages to miss the forest for the trees, so far as I can tell, because every one of those "tests" Webb refers to from the IDC advocates is specifically done to deny the efficient causation of the result by the mechanism they are testing.

Anybody else see it that way?

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Arctodus23



Posts: 322
Joined: Mar. 2013

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2014,13:19   

ENV raves about "Oxygen as an explanation for the Cambrian Explosion".

I don't find ENV a credible source for news on palaeontology, so I`m only going to link to the "news".

But anyways I find hypothesis that predation started the Cambrian Explosion the most explanatory one to date, because for at least 100 million years before the Cambrian (650-443 Ma)
there was the rather frustrating taxonomic clusterfuck of biota, the Ediacaran biota. No doubt some are animals, such as Spriggina which are thought to be Bilaterians. There's also some evidence of limited predation from the Ediacaran period.

But just before the Cambrian the Small Shelly Fauna emerged, another taxonomic clusterfuck that appears to be a response to predation!

But the mere existence of animals before the Cambrian Explosion refutes the DI bullshit on the Cambrian, so there you have it.

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"At our churchs funerals, we sing gospel songs (out loud) to God." -- FL

"So the center of the earth being hotter than the surface is a "gross
violation of the second law of thermodynamics??" -- Ted Holden

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2014,10:26   

Is it just me or has the Tute gone over the edge recently?  Jumping sharks as a business plan, perhaps.

I don't propose anybody does a study (it might result in permanent brain damage) but it seems that more and more articles are along the lines of "looks designed, therefore designed."

The most recent is on horse gaits;  smooth rides, therefore design.

They aren't even trying, anymore.  If you could graph "number of really stupid articles" versus "time" you might get a knee in the curve about the time Dense joined the Tute as editor.

Just saying.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 07 2014,10:31   

Is a knee in the curve anything like a kick in the jewels?

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
sparc



Posts: 2000
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 10 2014,16:00   

Not that it has been much better before but Ann Gauger now changed to full Cornelius Hunter mode.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11110
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2014,13:58   

H/T SteveStory:

http://www.salon.com/2014....ith_you

Quote
...

But the folks at Evolution News and Views chose a more sophisticated approach, preferring instead to engage in a convoluted argument about Tysons decision to focus part of the first episode on the martyred Giordano Bruno. (Hat tip: Steve Silberman).

(Evolution News and Views, incidentally, is published by The Discovery Institute, a vehicle that seems primarily although perhaps not so intelligently designed to help religious right-wing millionaires fund attacks on the theory of evolution.)

The revisionist Cosmos critique concerning Bruno goes like this: He wasnt even really a scientist, and he was burned to death because of his theological heresies and not his belief in Copernican theory, (SO HE DESERVED IT!) and the main reason he showed up on Cosmos at all was because he was the only one with even a passing association with a scientific controversy to be burned at the stake during this period of history.

...


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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4930
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2014,15:55   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 11 2014,13:58)
H/T SteveStory:

http://www.salon.com/2014.......ith_you

Quote
...

But the folks at Evolution News and Views chose a more sophisticated approach, preferring instead to engage in a convoluted argument about Tysons decision to focus part of the first episode on the martyred Giordano Bruno. (Hat tip: Steve Silberman).

(Evolution News and Views, incidentally, is published by The Discovery Institute, a vehicle that seems primarily although perhaps not so intelligently designed to help religious right-wing millionaires fund attacks on the theory of evolution.)

The revisionist Cosmos critique concerning Bruno goes like this: He wasnt even really a scientist, and he was burned to death because of his theological heresies and not his belief in Copernican theory, (SO HE DESERVED IT!) and the main reason he showed up on Cosmos at all was because he was the only one with even a passing association with a scientific controversy to be burned at the stake during this period of history.

...

And thus an acceptable amount of persecution, as opposed to what happened to Sternberg, who had to endure the incredible persecution of being told that a number of his colleagues had low opinions of his judgement and character? And to turn in the master key that he never should have had and be issued a key that only opened up his office instead?

Yeah, Sternberg's had it soooo much worse, what with months and years of people still expressing low opinions of him, where Bruno only had to put up with a few minutes on the stake (if you ignore the preceding years spent in the custody of the Inquisition because, hey, free food and lodging! I guess the Inquisition was just giving Bruno his heating in one installment.).

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Lou FCD



Posts: 5409
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2014,16:03   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 27 2014,11:13)
The DI ENV is pushing an article by Stephen Webb that supposedly "schools" Stephen Meredith on IDC and "occasionalism".

Anybody else see the problem in Webb's thing that I do?

 
Quote
They then test their hypothesis by calculating the probability that a specific set of causes can create new biological forms.

lulz, as if cID theoristsists have ever actually calculated anything, ever.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1638
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2014,16:18   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 11 2014,16:03)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 27 2014,11:13)
The DI ENV is pushing an article by Stephen Webb that supposedly "schools" Stephen Meredith on IDC and "occasionalism".

Anybody else see the problem in Webb's thing that I do?

Quote
They then test their hypothesis by calculating the probability that a specific set of causes can create new biological forms.

lulz, as if cID theoristsists have ever actually calculated anything, ever.

I'm sure some of them calculated how much money they could make off the rubes.  That's kind of sciency, right?

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
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