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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2008,21:16   

You know, this is pretty sad, but if Ben Stein had gone all the way in selling his soul and blamed "Darwinism" on the Jews, all these goyum that he is bribing with discounted tickets to see his film would willingly flock (something that they know how to do) to it. Because despite all the late-hour embrace of Zionism by right-wing evangelicals they still believe that the Jews control the international banking system and that "the Lord God does not hear the prayers of a Jew." (Hell, they probably thought of Jews when Stein wrote that piece about the market being manipulated by traders.)

As I said - it's sad, and it's disgusting. But Stein should have known better. What does he think of the idiots who are praising his film for "leading people to Jesus"?

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2008,22:18   

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 28 2008,21:16)
As I said - it's sad, and it's disgusting. But Stein should have known better. What does he think of the idiots who are praising his film for "leading people to Jesus"?

Especially since most of the backing for ID comes from evangelical protestants. Think for a moment about what the founder of that movement had to say about jews, and which group of genocidal nutjobs was so fond of quoting him. Yet somehow "Darwinism" is hopelessly tainted by Darwins imperialist upbringing, while a religious sect created by someone who outright advocated discrimination, abuse, and ethnic cleansing (if not outright genocide) is A-OK ?

If "Darwinism" is evil because it was used (however vaguely and illogically) by madmen to justify mass murder, wouldn't that also apply to someone who's writings, read literally by the same madmen, were explicitly used to justify the same acts ?

While we are on the subject of rejecting ideas which were used (or abused) rationalize atrocities, would Mr. Stein care to discuss the Inquisition, the Crusades, the Salem witch trials ? Once we're done with those, maybe we could have a look through the old testament and see if there's any ideas guilty by association there ?

Are you sure you want to throw that particular rock next to your lovely glass house there Mr. Stein ? Anyone ? Bueller ?

This, BTW, was the point of my earlier questions for Kevin, which he has so far, to my great surprise, declined to answer.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2008,23:44   

Well, Reed, to be fair to the little showman, he has been piled upon.  And I'm sure he likes it.  Why else would skeptic FtK Daniel Smith VMartin Keith Robinson Kevin Miller come here, if not to renew teh scientz and cultyoor?

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,04:36   

Kevin was a bit of a disappointment. He was happy to discuss philosophy but nothing about the specifics of the movie. You would think a movie maker would be interested in the "other side" of the whole expelled thing. I know that I would be nervous that I may have been taken in by the DI crowd, and appear as a fool.

The only thing that I can derive from what Kevin has written is that he thinks that Science is not including the supernatural it doesn't matter that they are promoting liars (Well he didn't seem interested in defending any of the ID gang here) and slandering scientists.

  
Richard Simons



Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,07:56   

I wonder if Kevin, who clearly knows very little about science, thought that the IDers had a case when he made the film but but now knows, or suspects, that they took him for a ride. I imagine it would be a very difficult situation as there is no way to back out gracefully and without being attacked.

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All sweeping statements are wrong.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,09:24   

Quote (Richard Simons @ Feb. 29 2008,07:56)
I wonder if Kevin, who clearly knows very little about science, thought that the IDers had a case when he made the film but but now knows, or suspects, that they took him for a ride. I imagine it would be a very difficult situation as there is no way to back out gracefully and without being attacked.

Plus the cash would be committed and work would be done.

Kevin's diary, day 134:

Quote
I can't believe it, they still haven't shown me their labs! That nimrod Dembski was busy talking up research at the start but all he does is write books. These fellas seem great at press releases, but I don't think they have any scientists on board. Plus it's 'Jesus this and Jesus that' when they think no-one is looking. We're going to give up the "ID isn't religious" angle - shit the fundies will love it more if there's a sprinkling of god in there..


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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,09:36   

Quote (Richard Simons @ Feb. 29 2008,06:56)
I wonder if Kevin, who clearly knows very little about science, thought that the IDers had a case when he made the film but but now knows, or suspects, that they took him for a ride. I imagine it would be a very difficult situation as there is no way to back out gracefully and without being attacked.

No, no, I think he knows better than that - I think he had what he thought was a finger to the wind.

It's pretty sad when someone brags about a good review by Tom Bethell. Miller also wrote the film After… about urban infiltration. I should like to see it, although from what I’ve read the story about urban explorers gets muddled with supernatural elements. (Groan.) The film industry has really run out of ideas.

However, in my opinion it is the ID crowd that is being taken for a ride here! I speculate that we have had a whole generation of people grow up on special effects, and who as a result are quite underwhelmed by reality – and they, not necessarily because they are of the same religious persuasion as the ID activitsts, but because of the mental habits they have formed, wish to jazz science up a little with some “supernaturalism,” i.e., special effects and these shallow “philosophical questions,” but not necessarily any religious agenda – and certainly not Dembski’s or Bethell’s or Coulter’s.

From indb:
     
Quote
In a controversial new satirical documentary, author, former presidential speechwriter, economist, lawyer and actor Ben Stein travels the world, looking to some of the best scientific minds of our generation for the answer to the biggest question facing all Americans today: Are we still free to disagree about the meaning of life? Or has the whole issue already been decided... while most of us weren't looking? The freedom to legitimately challenge "Big Science's" orthodoxywithout persecution.

The debate over evolution is confusing and to some, bewildering: "Wasn't this all settled years ago?" The answer to that question is equally troubling: "Yesand no."

The truth is that a staggering amount of new scientific evidence has emerged since Darwin's 150-year-old theory of life's origins. Darwin had no concept of DNA, microbiology, The Big Bang, Einstein's Theory of Relativity or of the human genome.

Each of these discoveries has, in one way or another, led a growing number of scientists to reconsider the simple view espoused by Darwin that life is a random, purposeless, chance occurrence. The universe, and life itself - is turning out to be far more complex and mysterious - than Darwin could possibly have imagined.

Darwin's theory isn't a single idea. Instead, it is made up of several related ideas, each supported by specific arguments. Of the three, only Evolution #1 can be said to be scientifically "settled."

- Evolution#1: First, evolution can mean minor changes in features of individual species - changes that take place gradually over a (relatively) modest period of time.

- Evolution # 2: The Theory of Universal Common Descent - the idea that all the organisms we see today are descended from a single common ancestor somewhere in the distant past. This theory paints a picture of the history of life on earth as a great branching tree, from a single cell that "somehow" materialized.

- Evolution#3: A cause or mechanism of change, the biological process Darwin thought was responsible for this branching pattern. Darwin argued that natural selection had the power to produce fundamentally new forms of life. Together, the ideas of Universal Common Descent and natural selection form the core of Darwinian evolutionary theory. "Neo - Darwinian" evolution combines our knowledge of DNA and genetics to claim that mutations in DNA provide the variation upon which natural selection acts.

When you see the word "evolution." You should ask yourself, "Which of the three definitions is being used?" Because arguments and evidence supporting #1 do not support #2 or #3!

This is just manufactured "drama" - that's what Kevin's selling.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,10:00   

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 29 2008,09:36)
The film industry has really run out of ideas.

Not true!  Coming soon is a new Spiderman, new Terminator, new Batman, and a new X-Men.

Added in Edit:  Batman Begins, the fifth movie in the series, was a radical departure from it's predecessors.  Enough to be considered a different franchise. IMO. YMMV.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,12:14   

Ben is going to be on Larry King Live tonight.  There's a link on that page where you can submit questions for the guests.  I'm thinking that maybe if enough people ask one particular question, it will get used on the show.

Bonus: Penn Jillette will also be on the show.  Maybe he'll be able to hold Ben's feet to the fire.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1045
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,12:42   

Quote (improvius @ Feb. 29 2008,12:14)
Ben is going to be on Larry King Live tonight.  There's a link on that page where you can submit questions for the guests.  I'm thinking that maybe if enough people ask one particular question, it will get used on the show.

Bonus: Penn Jillette will also be on the show.  Maybe he'll be able to hold Ben's feet to the fire.

Not that Stein will answer whatever question is asked.  He'll bring up his stale, "no one knows where gravity comes from," and "Darwinism doesn't tell us how life originated."  

Thank the Designer that Penn will be there.  Still, that's typical, no scientist or any other person who thoroughly knows the scientific method and exactly why ID fails, the best we have opposite ignorant Stein is a smart magician, whose intelligence won't make up for lack of considerable knowledge of the subject.  

But then that might be due in part to Stein et al., since all of the Expelled people play hooky the moment they're invited to give us some evidence that ID is science, or that it is treated at all badly.  Isn't that right, Kevin?

Glen D

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,12:47   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Feb. 29 2008,13:42)
Thank the Designer that Penn will be there.  Still, that's typical, no scientist or any other person who thoroughly knows the scientific method and exactly why ID fails, the best we have opposite ignorant Stein is a smart magician, whose intelligence won't make up for lack of considerable knowledge of the subject.

On the contrary, Penn is quite knowledgeable on this particular topic.  I think Ben is in for a rough ride.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,13:03   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 29 2008,10:00)
Edit:  Batman Begins, the fifth movie in the series, was a radical departure from it's predecessors.  Enough to be considered a different franchise. IMO. YMMV.

Filmed in my neighbourhood!

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,13:46   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 29 2008,13:03)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 29 2008,10:00)
Edit:  Batman Begins, the fifth movie in the series, was a radical departure from it's predecessors.  Enough to be considered a different franchise. IMO. YMMV.

Filmed in my neighbourhood!

I want to hear stories about you stealing Katie Holmes away from Scientolonut Tommy Boy Cruise.

I have a vision of you holding on to his head with one hand, as he is swinging wildly and ineffectually at you.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,18:12   

Quote (J-Dog @ Feb. 29 2008,13:46)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 29 2008,13:03)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 29 2008,10:00)
Edit:  Batman Begins, the fifth movie in the series, was a radical departure from it's predecessors.  Enough to be considered a different franchise. IMO. YMMV.

Filmed in my neighbourhood!

I want to hear stories about you stealing Katie Holmes away from Scientolonut Tommy Boy Cruise.

I have a vision of you holding on to his head with one hand, as he is swinging wildly and ineffectually at you.

During the first film, they closed La Salle street leading up to the Chicago board of trade (Wayne towers) to film some helicopter footage that was later enhanced with CGI to become the monorail end chase. I stood on the side of the street screaming "Dana Nananana Dana Nananana BATMAN!!!11111oneone" as loud as my wickle lungs would let me. I got moved along. I did not make the final edit.  ???  :angry:

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1045
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,18:30   

What do you know, Kevin Miller finally responded to what I wrote, only I had to hit him elsewhere before he babbled incoherently:

Quote
I see Glen D. has been having a heyday with the following statement that I made on antievolution.org: "I see ID as a challenge not just to Darwinian evolution but to the very foundation of the scientific enterprise itself."
Somehow he takes that to mean I oppose the very foundation of science, which is patently untrue. What I meant to communicate is that one of the reasons I think ID is so controversial is that it doesn't just represent an evidential challenge to evolutionary biology, it also represents a philosophical challenge to our current definition of science. That's why I find this whole controversy so interesting, b/c it forces us to ask a number of fundamental questions about the nature of science that we wouldn't be asking if the IDers weren't around. I fail to see how this observation pits me against science in any way.


This is what he wrote on Colorado Confidential, which is where I'd respond in turn, if their server would let me.

Kevin is such a jerk.  Ooh, ID is so lovely, because it lets uneducated dolts like him stick their noses into epistemological issues that they don't understand.

The news for you, Kevin, is that these issues are discussed all of the time, but never profitably by those who understand neither science nor philosophy.  You've never told me that you'd be willing to submit yourself to the "standards" of ID if you were accused of some crime, and I'm sure that's in part because you wouldn't be willing to be subjected to such dishonest "standards" (and in part because you refuse to engage in honest discussions).

Besides which, why aren't you bothering physics with your middle school relativism?  Why are you only troubling biology with your low-level prattle?  The fact of the matter is that it is in physics where epistemological issues truly do come up.  Biology sticks largely with classical science, and is as nearly unproblematic as Newton's laws in the questions of what constitutes evidence, and what does not (sure, biology is more complex, but what is evidence is not a problem).

Glen D

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,18:41   

I think Ben Stein has a point.

Where DID thermodynamics come from?

I think it came from the fiery bowels of Hell and rose up and belching a sulfurous breath, threw down a slide rule, and demanded, "Solve me!!  To four decimal places."

I cursed, "Thermodamnics ye be!"

But, I was saved in the end by Saint Hewlett who sent down HP-45's from heaven.  I solved and was absolved.  To NINE decimal places!

I was an athermodynamithist from that day forward.

  
Chayanov



Posts: 289
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,19:12   

Quote
What I meant to communicate is that one of the reasons I think ID is so controversial is that it doesn't just represent an evidential challenge to evolutionary biology, it also represents a philosophical challenge to our current definition of science.


Darn those scientists. If they'd just admit that God did it, astrology tells the future, and prayer trumps penicillin then we'd all get along.

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Help! Marxist literary critics are following me!

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2137
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,19:13   

Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 29 2008,07:36)
The film industry has really run out of ideas.

My next door neighbor is a film editor.  They wrapped the next Indiana Jones movie today, and he starts working next week on a horror flick.  Maybe the idea is “Do What Works.”

Reading the Epic of Gilgamesh and Chaucer has convinced me that there really are no new plots.  (Well, the murder mystery was new when Edger Allen Poe wrote one).

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4902
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,20:30   

If I heard that right, Penn Gillette is off in the next half hour. The first half was all about the presidential campaign.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
improvius



Posts: 807
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,21:12   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 29 2008,21:30)
If I heard that right, Penn Gillette is off in the next half hour. The first half was all about the presidential campaign.

As was the second half.  Bah.

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Quote (afdave @ Oct. 02 2006,18:37)
Many Jews were in comfortable oblivion about Hitler ... until it was too late.
Many scientists will persist in comfortable oblivion about their Creator ... until it is too late.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 29 2008,21:15   

Fran Drescher belongs with Ben Stein.  I think.  Maybe she doesn't deserve that.  He probably doesn't deserve a live human.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4902
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2008,05:14   

Interesting that Stein plugged his new book during the program, but AFAICT there was no mention of the movie.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2008,14:18   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 29 2008,18:13)
     
Quote (Kristine @ Feb. 29 2008,07:36)
The film industry has really run out of ideas.

My next door neighbor is a film editor.  They wrapped the next Indiana Jones movie today, and he starts working next week on a horror flick.  Maybe the idea is “Do What Works.”

Reading the Epic of Gilgamesh and Chaucer has convinced me that there really are no new plots.  (Well, the murder mystery was new when Edger Allen Poe wrote one).

Reading the same convinced me that there are few new plots...but also that there are such things as, you know, plot, when you have interesting characters.

 
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Feb. 29 2008,17:30)

What do you know, Kevin Miller finally responded to what I wrote, only I had to hit him elsewhere before he babbled incoherently:    
Quote

I see Glen D. has been having a heyday with the following statement that I made on antievolution.org: "I see ID as a challenge not just to Darwinian evolution but to the very foundation of the scientific enterprise itself."
Somehow he takes that to mean I oppose the very foundation of science, which is patently untrue. What I meant to communicate is that one of the reasons I think ID is so controversial is that it doesn't just represent an evidential challenge to evolutionary biology, it also represents a philosophical challenge to our current definition of science. That's why I find this whole controversy so interesting, b/c it forces us to ask a number of fundamental questions about the nature of science that we wouldn't be asking if the IDers weren't around. I fail to see how this observation pits me against science in any way.  

No argument about the incoherence, Glen. ("I'm not questioning the very foundations of science, I'm just questioning what science is founded on.") But, the thing is, to Kevin, this is all about Kevin. Kevin speaks like most of the thespians I've shared a stage with, or the "It was a dark and stormy relationship" novels I reviewed. He may be truly confused about the science, but he's mostly bullshitting anyway. This is sales. You have to sell yourself in the writing industry and in the film industry, and that's what he's doing. This is the generation that gets its philosophical "questions" from films like The Matrix. Oooh, everything we think we know may be WRONG! :)

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Freelurker



Posts: 80
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2008,16:07   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 01 2008,15:18)
       
Quote (Glen Davidson @ Feb. 29 2008,17:30)

What do you know, Kevin Miller finally responded to what I wrote, only I had to hit him elsewhere before he babbled incoherently:          
Quote

I see Glen D. has been having a heyday with the following statement that I made on antievolution.org: "I see ID as a challenge not just to Darwinian evolution but to the very foundation of the scientific enterprise itself."
Somehow he takes that to mean I oppose the very foundation of science, which is patently untrue. What I meant to communicate is that one of the reasons I think ID is so controversial is that it doesn't just represent an evidential challenge to evolutionary biology, it also represents a philosophical challenge to our current definition of science. That's why I find this whole controversy so interesting, b/c it forces us to ask a number of fundamental questions about the nature of science that we wouldn't be asking if the IDers weren't around. I fail to see how this observation pits me against science in any way.  

The way I read it, his defense is that it's not him who's challenging science; it's those IDists who are doing it. He's just observing selling the controversy.

[Edit: "who's" rather than "that's"]

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Invoking intelligent design in science is like invoking gremlins in engineering. [after Mark Isaak.]
All models are wrong, some models are useful. - George E. P. Box

  
celdd



Posts: 18
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2008,17:45   

A poster on Dailykos (linky) gives a heads-up that Mark Mathis, producer of Expelled, will be on the Coast to Coast radio show tonight - 11 pm to 2 am PST (check your local listings).

Wednesday night, the main guest was Uncle Walt with his views about Noah's Ark. (linky) However, he did get to mention many other topics in his book, including hydroplates, and how for over decades, no one will accept his debate terms.  Ugh.  What's worse, they took about ten calls at the end, and all but two thought he was wonderful.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,10:40   

Does anyone have the history on how Ben came to be involved in the film?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,11:14   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 03 2008,10:40)
Does anyone have the history on how Ben came to be involved in the film?

My guess is that they probably needed a conservative entertainer-type and their first choice was busy.



EDIT: Fixed grammar not so good.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,11:22   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 03 2008,09:40)
Does anyone have the history on how Ben came to be involved in the film?

Well, that's a documentary in itself, is it not? I am certainly interested in doing a little digging. :)

This "two sides to every story" let's-debate hogwash in popular discourse needs to be replaced with the fact that "there's always a story behind the story."

P.S. I just saw Sicko last night, and while Moore gets on my nerves in a major way the personal stories, plus the footage in Europe (and my experience of Europe) really drove home how irresponsible at best Stein is to scare people with Nazis when in fact we are practicing not eugenics ("good birth") in this country, but lousy birth and shitty treatment and rotten death. We are waging a medical war against the poor and middle class, while Stein (and Kevin et al) are jerking themselves off about Hitler.

How selfish.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,11:43   

I'm not sure where I read it, maybe it was in one of his interviews, but according to Ben he's already been paid for his work in the film (and it wasn't much says he).  That leads me to believe the film wasn't his idea.  

I'm just curious who sold him.  Well and how he began his new career as a fundamentalist, anti-science toady.

Simply tragic that he never spoke to any legit biologists but I suppose in his tiny world biologists are demon posessed liars that suck up to "big science" anyhow.  Did they even try and interview Ken Miller?  I know Barbara Forrest spotted a rotten pig right off the bat and declined to be interviewed.

random thoughts:

Interesting that the outfit who's promoting the film is the same one who promoted the mel gibson christian snuff film.  

I have a feeling we'll see more taunting from the crossroads expelled blog like they did last week with PZ Myers.  I bet they'll do more adolescent stuff like that thinking this will create buzz that will result in more ticket sales.  

Final question - Does any self-respecting person plan to actually pay money to see it?

ediztd:

Has everyone read New mutation in Darwin debate: Doc 'Expelled' aims to discredit evolution at Variety?   The DI just left their usual dishonest crap in the comments section.  Maybe a few folks here might want to leave comments.

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Kristine



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Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2008,13:04   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Mar. 03 2008,10:43)
I'm not sure where I read it, maybe it was in one of his interviews, but according to Ben he's already been paid for his work in the film (and it wasn't much says he).  That leads me to believe the film wasn't his idea.  

I'm just curious who sold him.  Well and how he began his new career as a fundamentalist, anti-science toady.

Simply tragic that he never spoke to any legit biologists but I suppose in his tiny world biologists are demon posessed liars that suck up to "big science" anyhow.  Did they even try and interview Ken Miller?  I know Barbara Forrest spotted a rotten pig right off the bat and declined to be interviewed.

random thoughts:

Interesting that the outfit who's promoting the film is the same one who promoted the mel gibson christian snuff film.  

I have a feeling we'll see more taunting from the crossroads expelled blog like they did last week with PZ Myers.  I bet they'll do more adolescent stuff like that thinking this will create buzz that will result in more ticket sales.  

Final question - Does any self-respecting person plan to actually pay money to see it?

ediztd:

Has everyone read New mutation in Darwin debate: Doc 'Expelled' aims to discredit evolution at Variety?   The DI just left their usual dishonest crap in the comments section.  Maybe a few folks here might want to leave comments.

Stein says this in the Variety article itself, too. I've heard this before - it's not me, it's the Lord.

Interesting now that the DI is focusing on, through Stein, changing school curricula after denying that they wanted this during the Dover trial. A timeline with the DI's contradictory statements - there's another documentary film. Instead of "healthy debate," healthy context.

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