RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (121) < ... 41 42 43 44 45 [46] 47 48 49 50 51 ... >   
  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
steve_h



Posts: 535
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,15:55   

I'm looking forward to some scenes reminiscent of those taking place in or around  lifts/elevators/vertical-people-carriers at the end of the 1988 movie  "Working Girl" - only with the emphasis more on cell animation that on advertising.

  
BCtheEra



Posts: 18
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,16:09   

So, given 22 days this is the best that Mathis could come up with?  He really should have had Kevin write this... then again... maybe not.

Producer Mathis’s Eyewitness Report: Dawkins’ Brazen Minnesota ‘Sneak-In!’

Mathis refers to Dawkins as "Herr Professor Dawkins".  Real classy.

Also, if you haven't yet, do yourself a favor and listen to the roundtable discussion with Mathis and the Scientific American staffers.  It's very entertaining.  Mathis comes across as a ignorant, vile rube.

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1046
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,16:17   

Cross-posting:

Quote
Time has reported on Expelled, and PZ gets a mention, if not a very favorable one:

 
Quote
Ben Stein Dukes it Out with Darwin Thursday, Apr. 10, 2008 By JEFFREY KLUGER

There is nothing so tiresome as an argument that no one will ever concede--particularly if the participants don't seem to know it. And there's no place the fighting is growing more pointless than in the ongoing smackdown between evolutionists and advocates of intelligent design--the theory that the emergence of life must have been guided by a sentient planner.

The latest shot is being fired by economist, actor and game-show host Ben Stein, with his documentary Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, due out April 18. Stein nominally set out to make the case that academics who write about evolution are being muzzled or denied tenure if they so much as nod in the direction of intelligent design. It's impossible to know from the handful of examples he cites how widespread the problem is, but if there's anything to it at all, it's a matter well worth exposing.

The man made famous by Ferris Bueller, however, quickly wades into waters far too deep for him. He makes all the usual mistakes nonscientists make whenever they try to take down evolution, asking, for example, how something as complex as a living cell could have possibly arisen whole from the earth's primordial soup. The answer is it couldn't--and it didn't. Organic chemicals needed eons of stirring and slow cooking before they could produce compounds that could begin to lead to a living thing. More dishonestly, Stein employs the common dodge of enumerating all the admittedly unanswered questions in evolutionary theory and using this to refute the whole idea. But all scientific knowledge is built this way. A fishnet is made up of a lot more holes than strings, but you can't therefore argue that the net doesn't exist. Just ask the fish.

It's in the film's final third that it runs entirely off the rails as Stein argues that there is a clear line from Darwinism to euthanasia, abortion, eugenics and--wait for it--Nazism. Theories of natural selection, it's claimed, were a necessary if not sufficient condition for Hitler's killing machine to get started. The truth, of course, is that the only necessary and sufficient condition for human beings to murder one another is the simple fact of being human. We've always been a lustily fratricidal species, one that needed no Charles Darwin to goad us into millenniums of self-slaughter.

In fairness to Stein, his opponents have hardly covered themselves in glory. Evolutionary biologists and social commentators have lately taken to answering the claims of intelligent-design boosters not with clear-eyed scientific empiricism but with sneering, finger-in-the-eye atheism. Biologist P.Z. Myers, for example, tells Stein that religion ought to be seen as little more than a soothing pastime, a bit like knitting. Books such as Christopher Hitchens' God Is Not Great and Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion often read like pure taunting, as when Hitchens pettily and pointedly types God as lowercase god. Tautology as typography is not the stuff of deep thought. Neither, alas, is Expelled.


Linky

It gives too much credit to ID claims, no question. And the author seems not to understand why the sneering at IDists and their unrelenting lies has to happen. The science side would look like fools (and find the situation intolerable) if they were to treat every repetition of every cheap shot by the creos/IDists as if it were some grand and telling objection to a theory that long ago answered most such objections (while those not answered are the usual sorts known in ongoing scientific programs).

It's not an ideal article at all, then, but at least the bizarre claims by Stein & co. are highlighted.


Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
BCtheEra



Posts: 18
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,16:27   

Quote (BCtheEra @ April 10 2008,16:09)
So, given 22 days this is the best that Mathis could come up with?  He really should have had Kevin write this... then again... maybe not.

Producer Mathis’s Eyewitness Report: Dawkins’ Brazen Minnesota ‘Sneak-In!’

Mathis refers to Dawkins as "Herr Professor Dawkins".  Real classy.

Also, if you haven't yet, do yourself a favor and listen to the roundtable discussion with Mathis and the Scientific American staffers.  It's very entertaining.  Mathis comes across as a ignorant, vile rube.

Here are some choice nuggets from Mr. Mathis' latest attempt at spin:
Quote
Under normal conditions I believe Mr. Dawkins would have mounted a much more vigorous and competitive argument. But he had just watched EXPELLED, a well-crafted film that exposes how he and others have unethically used science to advance their personal philosophy. He was a wounded opponent when I faced him, which put him at a considerable disadvantage. By the time I explained to him that his devotion to Atheism created a blind spot in his thinking he must have been in shock at all that had transpired in the previous two hours.
(Emphasis Mine)
This reminds me of this clip from The Simpsons (skip to 8:55).
Quote
Poor PZ missed all the excitement in Minnesota, standing in the Mall of America, alternately peeping through the glass windows at the theater, then racing back to the Apple Store to blog to his followers, all the while excitedly anticipating hearing all the wonderful details. In the end, PZ’s dignity may be bruised (don’t let all the fire-breathing bluster fool you) but he still has his job. Unfortunately, victims of scientific witch-hunts can’t say the same.
(Emphasis Mine)
Wow, now that's what I call revisionist history.  This guy could give David Barton a run for his money.

  
dheddle



Posts: 542
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,16:29   

Glen D,

Quote
Time has reported on Expelled, and PZ gets a mention, if not a very favorable one:


I’ve been withholding this comment, but that seems like the proper segue.

Just personal opinion here, but I do think, of all the interviews from Expelled that I have seen, PZ comes off the worst. It's strange--as always there is the evidence that his bulldog demeanor is an internet persona. However his soft-spoken, reasoned answers came off as ice-water-in-the-veins chilling. With that and some poor word choices he came across to me, intentionally or not, as the quintessentially dry, humorless and soulless scientist.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
steve_h



Posts: 535
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,16:36   

WorldNutDaily 2007-04-10    
Quote
Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist at Oxford who wrote the book "The God Delusion," gained entry only by foregoing his evolved surname for the formal, Clinton.


I would have thought by now, after it's been pointed out several times by several people, that  everyone would have figured that Clinton is not his surname.

Expelled" controversy held the No. 1 slot:check
Look down their elitist noses at the unwashed ignorant religious masses and scoff: check
Darwin->atheism->eugenics->Hitler:  check
Planned Parenthood: check
"Much Butt Kicking": check
"break out the knuckerdusters": no check.(ed: you're fired)

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,16:46   

William Dembski: Not a Lawyer

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:03   

The article is in Newsweek, so what do you expect? ;) I think its summation is fine. Sure, it takes shots at PZ, et al. As its author states, “Truth, of course, is that the only necessary and sufficient condition for human beings to [vebally] murder one another is the simple fact of being human.” That’s going to happen (and in the article it strikes me as a rhetorical gesture), but the article still dismisses intelligent design, and its criticisms of Stein are amusing.

People are going to have, and are entitled to, their opinions about personalities, as Heddle does. It’s an opinion. What I really care about is the science (and lack of it), and this bathroom-visit-length blurb in Newsweek isn’t flattering to Expelled. That’s all I can ask for. Newsweek is not the stuff of deep thought, either. :)

*edit - duh, Time Magazine, not Newsweek. I do confuse the two a lot. Erf-derr, Kristine*

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
JohnW



Posts: 2835
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:04   

Quote (steve_h @ April 10 2008,14:36)
WorldNutDaily 2007-04-10    
Quote
Richard Dawkins, an evolutionary biologist at Oxford who wrote the book "The God Delusion," gained entry only by foregoing his evolved surname for the formal, Clinton.


I would have thought by now, after it's been pointed out several times by several people, that  everyone would have figured that Clinton is not his surname.

And once they'd figured that out, everyone would go on to ask "what's a formal surname?"

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Henry J



Posts: 4794
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:16   

Quote (Amadan @ April 10 2008,09:29)
It seems you are mistaken. NFC stands for Nature Favours Christianity. The argument is related to those that support the view that gravity is at precisely the right strength to prevent missionaries in less fortunate lands from falling off.

NFC relies on the non-materialist doctrine of copywrong. This permits gene duplications to occur without increase of information. Legally, it is quite interesting. Simply put, the fee-simple copyholder can claim in rem that a non-repudiatory rescission is moot, given that the locus standi of notice parties at the interlocutory stage of interrogatories vitiates quasi-judicial application of the equitable doctrine of estoppel. Of course, this leaves open the availability of a plea in laches (subject to novation by the interceding party). But I'm sure you knew that.

The who whatting how with huh?

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:19   

I picked up a rumor on Kevins blog that when you play the Expelled video backwards it says "Paul is a nazi"

Weird.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
JAM



Posts: 517
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:24   

Quote (dheddle @ April 10 2008,16:29)
However his soft-spoken, reasoned answers came off as ice-water-in-the-veins chilling. With that and some poor word choices he came across to me, intentionally or not, as the quintessentially dry, humorless and soulless scientist.

Except that he hasn't been an active scientist for ten years.

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:35   

Quote

82
poachy
04/10/2008
4:19 pm
Were you this offended when Judge Jones was caught plagiarizing some 90% of his science “opinion” straight from an ACLU brief?

Well, if this goes to court, maybe this time we’ll get a solidly conservative judge appointed by President Bush, rather than some ACLU loving liberal.


 
Quote
90
poachy
04/10/2008
5:02 pm
I wrote before that I thought this was an example of people with marketing degrees baiting people with science degrees into making big PR blunders.

Is it a unpardonable sin to play tricks on the less intelligent and then laugh at them? I sure hope not!


Poachy, sweetie, you've gone OTT.

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,17:39   

Quote (Maya @ April 10 2008,17:35)
Quote

82
poachy
04/10/2008
4:19 pm
Were you this offended when Judge Jones was caught plagiarizing some 90% of his science “opinion” straight from an ACLU brief?

Well, if this goes to court, maybe this time we’ll get a solidly conservative judge appointed by President Bush, rather than some ACLU loving liberal.


 
Quote
90
poachy
04/10/2008
5:02 pm
I wrote before that I thought this was an example of people with marketing degrees baiting people with science degrees into making big PR blunders.

Is it a unpardonable sin to play tricks on the less intelligent and then laugh at them? I sure hope not!


Poachy, sweetie, you've gone OTT.

Darn it, these two were already pointed out on the UD thread.

I'll take the short bus home.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:08   

Quote (stevestory @ April 08 2008,03:14)
Quote
Joseph Arthur Comte de Gobineau (July 14, 1816 — October 13, 1882) was a French aristocrat, novelist and man of letters who became famous for developing the racialist theory of the Aryan master race in his book An Essay on the Inequality of the Human Races (1853-1855). De Gobineau is credited as being the father of modern racial demography.


Quote
Charles Darwin's On the Origin of Species (published 1859)


Though I risk running afoul of the mean and ugly moderators of this site, here you go Kevin:


I'm not even seeing the image.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
PennyBright



Posts: 78
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:16   

Quote
Biologist P.Z. Myers, for example, tells Stein that religion ought to be seen as little more than a soothing pastime, a bit like knitting.


I object to the comparison of knitting and religion.

Knitting is useful.  

On topic,  I'm really torn about this film.   It's planned to open at three theatres in my area (including our superduperultramegaplexmultiscreen),   and I know it will probably get a big first Sunday rush of churchgoers,   so I feel like I should check it out,   just for the sake of knowing my enemy.

On the other hand,  I don't care for Ben Stein,  or Nazis,   or feeling like I've wasted bucks on a bad movie.  

And now they've dragged knitting into it..... I'm not sure I'll be able to maintain my status as 'official local fiber whacko who knits in public'  if I don't go see it after that.

I'm not sure if I should blame PZ or Stein for this one.

edited: for spelling.  Not to flash my editiorial power, really.

--------------
Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - Shakespeare (reputedly)

  
JohnW



Posts: 2835
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:23   

Quote (PennyBright @ April 10 2008,16:16)
On topic,  I'm really torn about this film.   It's planned to open at three theatres in my area (including our superduperultramegaplexmultiscreen),   and I know it will probably get a big first Sunday rush of churchgoers,   so I feel like I should check it out,   just for the sake of knowing my enemy.

On the other hand,  I don't care for Ben Stein,  or Nazis,   or feeling like I've wasted bucks on a bad movie.  

And now they've dragged knitting into it..... I'm not sure I'll be able to maintain my status as 'official local fiber whacko who knits in public'  if I don't go see it after that.

I'm not sure if I should blame PZ or Stein for this one.

edited: for spelling.  Not to flash my editiorial power, really.

Don't forget that the proceeds will, in all likelihood, be going to XVIVO, and hence you'll be helping finance more cell-biology films for the next generation of cretards to steal copy be inspired by.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:28   

Quote (PennyBright @ April 10 2008,18:16)
Quote
Biologist P.Z. Myers, for example, tells Stein that religion ought to be seen as little more than a soothing pastime, a bit like knitting.


I object to the comparison of knitting and religion.

Knitting is useful.  

On topic,  I'm really torn about this film.   It's planned to open at three theatres in my area

What is your area? Sounds like it's hardly showing anywhere outside the Old Confederacy.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
PennyBright



Posts: 78
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:30   

I suppose I could always pull out the FSM pattern,  or maybe a knit a random
cephalopod,  to go see it in proxy for PZ.

I still think I may bend my ethics though,   and figure out a way to not have to pay to see the thing.   Bother a buddy who works up there, maybe.

--------------
Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - Shakespeare (reputedly)

  
PennyBright



Posts: 78
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:31   

I live in Ohio, Arden.   The Expelled website lists a theatre in Canton, and two in Akron -- all within an easy drive of me.

--------------
Conversation should be pleasant without scurrility, witty without affectation, free without indecency, learned without conceitedness, novel without falsehood. - Shakespeare (reputedly)

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2137
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,18:33   

Quote (PennyBright @ April 10 2008,16:30)
I suppose I could always pull out the FSM pattern,  or maybe a knit a random
cephalopod,  to go see it in proxy for PZ.

I still think I may bend my ethics though,   and figure out a way to not have to pay to see the thing.   Bother a buddy who works up there, maybe.

If it is in a megaplex, buy a ticket for some other movie.  Or, you could send a guilt donation of the ticket price to the NCSE.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Reginald Beasley



Posts: 31
Joined: April 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,19:00   

Quote (ERV @ April 10 2008,16:46)
William Dembski: Not a Lawyer

Everyone needs to read this post - Dembski is admitting to malicious forethought - maybe on the advice of the dumbest lawyer in the history of the Universe?

It's post 63  on the UD comments

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3992
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,19:13   

Quote (Reginald Beasley @ April 10 2008,19:00)
Quote (ERV @ April 10 2008,16:46)
William Dembski: Not a Lawyer

Everyone needs to read this post - Dembski is admitting to malicious forethought - maybe on the advice of the dumbest lawyer in the history of the Universe?

It's post 63  on the UD comments

Generally it takes weeks or months, and lots of subpoenas to unearth evidence of a conspiracy.



--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,19:25   

Look at me, I'm Billy-D
pointing out con-spir-a-cy,
IDiots crying,
I'm not testifying!
I can't, I'm Billy D!



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Reginald Beasley



Posts: 31
Joined: April 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,19:36   

Actually, quick question - isn't there supposedly a version of Excreted that used the entire Harvard animation with no alterations at all?

And don't they show these movies just on DVD through a laptop?

Does it then follow that there is a DVD of the movie with the completely unaltered animation?  Hell, XVIVO may just be suing on that version.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,19:43   

Quote (Reginald Beasley @ April 10 2008,19:36)
Actually, quick question - isn't there supposedly a version of Excreted that used the entire Harvard animation with no alterations at all?

And don't they show these movies just on DVD through a laptop?

Does it then follow that there is a DVD of the movie with the completely unaltered animation?  Hell, XVIVO may just be suing on that version.

Discovery will be fun. People, under oath, will have to explain "how they got there".

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
charlie d



Posts: 56
Joined: Oct. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,20:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 10 2008,19:43)
Discovery will be fun. People, under oath, will have to explain "how they got there".

Yes, sounds like. By the way, I always wondered why the chose to be called Discovery Institute, since they don't actually try to discover anything.  I now realize they were always planning to get all their internal documents subpoenaed on a regular basis.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,20:21   

Quote (charlie d @ April 10 2008,20:19)
Quote (Richardthughes @ April 10 2008,19:43)
Discovery will be fun. People, under oath, will have to explain "how they got there".

Yes, sounds like. By the way, I always wondered why the chose to be called Discovery Institute, since they don't actually try to discover anything.  I now realize they were always planning to get all their internal documents subpoenaed on a regular basis.

Kevin Miller is actually a Church Burning Elboa Boy Mole.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,21:32   

Quote (Maya @ April 10 2008,17:39)

I'll take the short bus home.

Man that is soooo sig block material.  :D

Meh, later. Don't know each other, really. First date kinda thing. Save it for later maybe.

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
dochocson



Posts: 62
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 10 2008,21:53   

I think we're underestimating ID brain trust. After several arduous hours of perusing posts on the issue, it struck me.

Ben Stein wasn't chosen just for his scintillating screen presence, he's a comedian.

This will all perk along for a while, then Casey Luskin will hold a press conference annoucing thatExpelled is just a parody, and therefore not subject to copyright law!

Then he'll pull off his mask, revealing that he is actually Wes Elsberry. Furthermore, it will be revealed that Dembski is actually PZ Myers, DaveScot is Richard Dawkins, and FtK is ERV.

--------------
All bleeding stops...eventually.

  
  3612 replies since Aug. 12 2007,07:23 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (121) < ... 41 42 43 44 45 [46] 47 48 49 50 51 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]